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The problem is he's rarely used in short yardage or passing situations. Riddick completely caps his upside in PPR. Even if Bell just rode the bench, Abdullah's upside would still be modest at best. Now if Riddick went down, then we're talking.

Having said all that, I may be forced to start him on turkey day.

Puke.

The Eagles just gave up 200+ yards to Doug Martin. Abdullah is a high upside play on Thanksgiving

On the season, AA has 63 first half touches, 32 second half touches (9 in the 4th Q.) 4 of his 95 touches have come on 3rd down, and those were all short yardage situations.

Riddick's splits: 25 first half, 51 second half (39 in 4th.) He is the trusted option, and there is no indication that will change. Leads all NFL RBs in receptions.

For 2015, Ameer is a good play in return yardage leagues, and not much else. Applying your personal belief/wish to the situation ("season lost, they should see what they got, he's more talented" et al) won't change what it is.

Right, it's exactly what many of thought it would be... A RBBC.

The only real question moving forward, beyond this year, is can Ameer overcome that? Is he good enough to warrant a more leading role?

The whole team is in flux ATM. Next GM will decide on the HC, next HC will decide on AA (let's not talk about the possibility JC keeps his job.)

Super talented back. Definite hold in dynasty, and I'd draft him again next year if there are indications they'll use him in the passing game.

I like Riddick a lot but the refusal to give Abdullah a legitimate and consistent role in the passing game is baffling. He's so good in space and has shown he can make plays as a receiver. I could understand it maybe if the offense was playing at a high level and everything was clicking but that clearly hasn't been the case. So why render one of your high-impact weapons useless like that? Just poor coaching.

Riddick is one of the highlights on that offense this year, and producing as a top receiving RB in the league.. so in a sense, they have indeed been "clicking" with their RB receiving game.

Might be the only thing clicking.. but still.

Edited by matuski
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Riddick is similar to Reggie Bush in my opinion in that he's basically a WR playing RB. Given that, I'd put him and Abdullah together on the field a lot so you now have two options to utilize out of the backfield. Abdullah has hurt himself with the fumbles this season but I also don't think he's being put in enough situations to take advantage of his ability.

Edited by packersfan
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I guess, but week 1 yielded the following stat line (albeit against the SDC) ...

1 Rushing TD

50 Rushing Yards

44 Receiving Yards on 4 receptions

105 Kickoff Return Yards

Seems like there is a lot more to this kid than weeks 2-10 have shown. The offensive coaching has been horrible. No development on the line, no creativity in the game plan and play calling, nothing.

Too bad ... :kicksrock:

Ameer has a lot more to give to both our fantasy teams and the Lions' faithful.

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The problem is he's rarely used in short yardage or passing situations. Riddick completely caps his upside in PPR. Even if Bell just rode the bench, Abdullah's upside would still be modest at best. Now if Riddick went down, then we're talking.

Having said all that, I may be forced to start him on turkey day.

Puke.

Was glad to see he was in on a 3rd and 2 play on the opponents 4 yard line and caught a pass for 2 yards to get the first down on the play.

Better sign was that he was getting the ball late in the 4th quarter when the Lions were trying to run the clock out. Showed some trust from the coaches that he wasn't going to fumble.

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Ameer Abdullah by game:

Snaps	% 	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	21 	44.7 	7	50	7.14	1	4	4	44	11.00	0	31	39.7 	6	9	1.50	0	1	1	9	9.00	0	34	45.9	8	23	2.88	0	5	2	19	9.50	1	30	53.6	13	33	2.54	0	5	2	11	5.50	0	15	15.8	6	16	2.67	0	2	1	9	9.00	0	35	43.2	14	48	3.43	0	4	3	21	7.00	0	12	22.2	8	43	5.38	0	0	0	0		0	5	8.3	1	3	3.00	0	2	0	0		0
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I'd like to be optimistic, but the Eagles have pretty much given up. Anyone playing them is a must-start down the stretch.

JV v. the Freshmen today. JV looked good but have to question the effort of the Frosh.

All three tailbacks had a good day. Not a great day for evaluating AA but the utilization was encouraging to see.

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Ameer Abdullah by game:

Snaps	% 	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	21 	44.7 	7	50	7.14	1	4	4	44	11.00	0	31	39.7 	6	9	1.50	0	1	1	9	9.00	0	34	45.9	8	23	2.88	0	5	2	19	9.50	1	30	53.6	13	33	2.54	0	5	2	11	5.50	0	15	15.8	6	16	2.67	0	2	1	9	9.00	0	35	43.2	14	48	3.43	0	4	3	21	7.00	0	12	22.2	8	43	5.38	0	0	0	0		0	5	8.3	1	3	3.00	0	2	0	0		0

8 games of data? What are you trying to say? Where are the last three games, which show a big increase in workload (after the bye, no less)?

Sorry but curious where you're going with this.

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I'd like to be optimistic, but the Eagles have pretty much given up. Anyone playing them is a must-start down the stretch.

That's true and all but how many times did he get the ball again?

16/63/0 in a blowout win. If he's not topping 20 carries when his team wins 45-14, I don't know when he will. He's not a significant factor in this offense regardless of opponent or the score.
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I'd like to be optimistic, but the Eagles have pretty much given up. Anyone playing them is a must-start down the stretch.

That's true and all but how many times did he get the ball again?

16/63/0 in a blowout win. If he's not topping 20 carries when his team wins 45-14, I don't know when he will. He's not a significant factor in this offense regardless of opponent or the score.
I thought he looked good yesterday. :shrug:
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I'd like to be optimistic, but the Eagles have pretty much given up. Anyone playing them is a must-start down the stretch.

That's true and all but how many times did he get the ball again?

16/63/0 in a blowout win. If he's not topping 20 carries when his team wins 45-14, I don't know when he will. He's not a significant factor in this offense regardless of opponent or the score.
I thought he looked good yesterday. :shrug:

I feel like if the utilization continues he's going to break some long ones. He only caught one pass yesterday, Theo was his typical reliable self - 5 targets, 5 catches. Joique made a couple big plays yesterday but I could see them fading Bell and giving AA more carries down the stretch. The O-line has been playing better the last few weeks.

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His vision looked suspect. Almost like he was finding guys to get tackled. If there's a clear hole he'll burst through it but that instinct to make yards out of nothing doesn't seem to be there. Overall he looked pretty average to me

I tend to agree here. If the hole is obvious, he burst thru it and looks effective and explosive. He doesn't pick thru the traffic well and doesn't seem to have enough power to run in any congested space. It's going to be tough to be an every down impact RB that way.

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His vision looked suspect. Almost like he was finding guys to get tackled. If there's a clear hole he'll burst through it but that instinct to make yards out of nothing doesn't seem to be there. Overall he looked pretty average to me

Remember he is a rookie. Year one for some rookie backs is a huge adjustment to the speed of the game.

I think this kid has NFL skills, can be an effective RB. Every down back? Remains to be seen. But I have seen dozens upon dozens of rookie RB's over my life that have that adjustment in their rookie year and some make the transition, some don't.

Some are just pure studs like Gurley.

Some need to develop like Lamar Miller.

I liken Abdullah to a Lamar Miller. He needs to learn to flow with the play, make better reads etc.

Next year will be the telling season.

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His vision looked suspect. Almost like he was finding guys to get tackled. If there's a clear hole he'll burst through it but that instinct to make yards out of nothing doesn't seem to be there. Overall he looked pretty average to me

Remember he is a rookie. Year one for some rookie backs is a huge adjustment to the speed of the game.

I think this kid has NFL skills, can be an effective RB. Every down back? Remains to be seen. But I have seen dozens upon dozens of rookie RB's over my life that have that adjustment in their rookie year and some make the transition, some don't.

Some are just pure studs like Gurley.

Some need to develop like Lamar Miller.

I liken Abdullah to a Lamar Miller. He needs to learn to flow with the play, make better reads etc.

Next year will be the telling season.

He's also going to put on weight over his career. Sure he's not going to be a bruiser, but he will put on some "healthy " weight this offseason.

Kid is very shifty, has good hands, has better vision than he's being credited with in this thread. If you read about him, he is also humble and committed to his craft.

I'll take all this and roll with Ameer. He's going to be much better than people have been recently trumpeting. Makes me think some are trying to buy low. ;)

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He's going to blow-up vs. NO in the playoffs and no one is going to have the balls to start him, including me.

As for his vision, remember he's running behind what is statistically a bottom three run blocking OL. When you know your OL isn't likely to provide you with very much space at all you're probably antsy to take anything you can get. Patience is only an asset when you know a hole will eventually open up.

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I was thinking of Joique Bell's second half of last year's season when I drafted Abdullah. Joique was a solid RB2 from Thanksgiving through fantasy playoffs. But it's interesting to look at Joique's stats -- he didn't get 20 carries in a game all season and never topped 100 yards in a game. The difference between Joique 2014 and Abdullah 2015 is receptions and TDs.

I'd like to see the carries continue to increase. He can't start fumbling again though.

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He was getting drafted in the 2nd in many PPR re-drafts and just hasn't delivered on that price. Not sure whether the issue is him, the OL, or both.

It's more the situation, but some of it is on him.

I took him in round 4 of my redraft this year and he has been a huge bust (obviously at the price). He looks like a rookie to me. Some indecision on which lane to take, he needs to build a little more muscle weight in the off-season (and a real NFL off-season training program will help him a ton). He is not a burner, but he has more than enough burst, wiggle and balance to be a very effective multi purpose back IMO.

But his situation is dreadful. And Riddick is a great pass catching back and is ahead of him in the pecking order in the passing game. And rightfully so. But You can see the Lions want Ameer to be their guy. He is in with the starting unit to start games and the half.

He is on his way. Just needs some seasoning and experience and a better OL. They stink.

Edited by Todem
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I'd like to be optimistic, but the Eagles have pretty much given up. Anyone playing them is a must-start down the stretch.

That's true and all but how many times did he get the ball again?

16/63/0 in a blowout win. If he's not topping 20 carries when his team wins 45-14, I don't know when he will. He's not a significant factor in this offense regardless of opponent or the score.
I thought he looked good yesterday. :shrug:

17 touches but because it was a blowout it's discounted somehow. Nevermind the part that his usage is increasing, leading the team in touches the last 2 weeks.

Yeah, he's "not a significant factor", nor will he be. Nobody wants to approach 20 touches in FF and Detroit most certainly doesn't want their 2nd round pick playing down the stretch. Especially against New Orleans and San Fran in week 15 and 16.

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I'd like to be optimistic, but the Eagles have pretty much given up. Anyone playing them is a must-start down the stretch.

That's true and all but how many times did he get the ball again?

16/63/0 in a blowout win. If he's not topping 20 carries when his team wins 45-14, I don't know when he will. He's not a significant factor in this offense regardless of opponent or the score.
I thought he looked good yesterday. :shrug:

17 touches but because it was a blowout it's discounted somehow. Nevermind the part that his usage is increasing, leading the team in touches the last 2 weeks.

Yeah, he's "not a significant factor", nor will he be. Nobody wants to approach 20 touches in FF and Detroit most certainly doesn't want their 2nd round pick playing down the stretch. Especially against New Orleans and San Fran in week 15 and 16.

Hey I hope you're right if I end up having to start him. It's been an underwhelming year and the team is terrible so I'm much less optimistic than you are. I wonder how many carries he gets if he fumbles again.
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Ameer Abdullah by game:

Snaps	% 	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	21 	44.7 	7	50	7.14	1	4	4	44	11.00	0	31	39.7 	6	9	1.50	0	1	1	9	9.00	0	34	45.9	8	23	2.88	0	5	2	19	9.50	1	30	53.6	13	33	2.54	0	5	2	11	5.50	0	15	15.8	6	16	2.67	0	2	1	9	9.00	0	35	43.2	14	48	3.43	0	4	3	21	7.00	0	12	22.2	8	43	5.38	0	0	0	0		0	5	8.3	1	3	3.00	0	2	0	0		0

8 games of data? What are you trying to say? Where are the last three games, which show a big increase in workload (after the bye, no less)?

Sorry but curious where you're going with this.

I was curious myself so I decided to combine the snap and utilization data for Riddick and Abdullah to see how that was developing. Since I was doing that anyways I figured I might as well share that information here.

Snaps	% 	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	21 	44.7 	7	50	7.14	1	4	4	44	11.00	0	31	39.7 	6	9	1.50	0	1	1	9	9.00	0	34	45.9	8	23	2.88	0	5	2	19	9.50	1	30	53.6	13	33	2.54	0	5	2	11	5.50	0	15	15.8	6	16	2.67	0	2	1	9	9.00	0	35	43.2	14	48	3.43	0	4	3	21	7.00	0	25	34.7	8	43	5.38	0	0	0	0		0	5	8.3	1	3	3.00	0	2	0	0		0	12	18.5	5	15	3.00	0	1	1	7	7.00	0	25	34.7	12	44	3.67	0	2	1	2	2.00	028	39	16	63	3.94	0	2	1	12	12.00	0

I think the main thing that is helping the Lions offense and the RB in particular is that their defense has been playing a lot better recently, which allows them to run the ball more.

Riddick is a big part of their passing game so this limits Abdullahs upside in that area. In the Packers game Bell had 60% of the offensive snaps which really cut into both the other RB opportunity. In the most recent game Bell had 17 offensive snaps 24% so while Bell isn't getting as many snaps as the other two RB recently, he is still a factor right now.

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Ameer Abdullah by game:

Snaps	% 	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	21 	44.7 	7	50	7.14	1	4	4	44	11.00	0	31	39.7 	6	9	1.50	0	1	1	9	9.00	0	34	45.9	8	23	2.88	0	5	2	19	9.50	1	30	53.6	13	33	2.54	0	5	2	11	5.50	0	15	15.8	6	16	2.67	0	2	1	9	9.00	0	35	43.2	14	48	3.43	0	4	3	21	7.00	0	12	22.2	8	43	5.38	0	0	0	0		0	5	8.3	1	3	3.00	0	2	0	0		0

8 games of data? What are you trying to say? Where are the last three games, which show a big increase in workload (after the bye, no less)?

Sorry but curious where you're going with this.

I was curious myself so I decided to combine the snap and utilization data for Riddick and Abdullah to see how that was developing. Since I was doing that anyways I figured I might as well share that information here.

Snaps	% 	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	21 	44.7 	7	50	7.14	1	4	4	44	11.00	0	31	39.7 	6	9	1.50	0	1	1	9	9.00	0	34	45.9	8	23	2.88	0	5	2	19	9.50	1	30	53.6	13	33	2.54	0	5	2	11	5.50	0	15	15.8	6	16	2.67	0	2	1	9	9.00	0	35	43.2	14	48	3.43	0	4	3	21	7.00	0	25	34.7	8	43	5.38	0	0	0	0		0	5	8.3	1	3	3.00	0	2	0	0		0	12	18.5	5	15	3.00	0	1	1	7	7.00	0	25	34.7	12	44	3.67	0	2	1	2	2.00	028	39	16	63	3.94	0	2	1	12	12.00	0
I think the main thing that is helping the Lions offense and the RB in particular is that their defense has been playing a lot better recently, which allows them to run the ball more.

Riddick is a big part of their passing game so this limits Abdullahs upside in that area. In the Packers game Bell had 60% of the offensive snaps which really cut into both the other RB opportunity. In the most recent game Bell had 17 offensive snaps 24% so while Bell isn't getting as many snaps as the other two RB recently, he is still a factor right now.

Thanks, Biabreakable, that's good stuff.

The main thing that has helped the Lions running game has been simplifying the blocking schemes, both in the running attack and protection. They used to have really "clever" assignments. I saw a breakdown of the Vikings 7 sacks against Detroit in week 7 and 4 of them were blown assignments. But Lombardi's schematics were ridiculously complex, i.e., LG pulls behind the center to pick up the gap blitz, RT swings out to pickup the LB while the back takes the DE. Now they're responsible for the man in front of them. In the run game they ditched zone blocking.

Went back & looked it up, I drafted AA at 6.08. Started him four times, lost three - two of those were by 4 and 8 points, had a Flex guy on the bench who could have won the week for me. Moved him for JStew after Week 6. Just a coincidence I'm 5-0 since.

I'll draft AA again, he's a dynamic player with tremendous upside. But Riddick is one of the best pass catching RBs around. Joique is the only bruiser they have. They're not moving on from either one in 2015. But it is somewhat encouraging the coaches are starting to trust him more.

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Anyone else having to roll this guy out tonight?

Yikes.

Can he break a long td for once? Is that asking to much?

Who is to?

To is an infamous grammar Nazi who died from choking on his own smugness. True story. It's on Wikipedia.

Grammar Nazi redirects here.

Theo will get all the passing downs and the two minute drill. Joique could not get anything going three weeks ago (14-17), and Ola has been playing well at RT over the last three weeks. They might have a little success running tonight.

Sheesh....still can't believe his longest run all year was that 24 yard TD on his first career carry. I was over the moon with optimism. Still his career high in YFS (94.) Well, they are utilizing him more the last two weeks, so maybe he breaks one.

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Picked him up from waivers today. Had drafted him but cut bait weeks ago. After losing Jamal Charles and trading charcuterie as part of a package for ODB, I have only upside stashes for backups to the increasingly unreliable Todd Gurley and Lamar Miller show. Hoping those two show something and I don't have to start Ameer in the playoffs. That said, I really like the kid and think he has the drive and passion for the game to really excel under better coaching next year.

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Picked him up from waivers today. Had drafted him but cut bait weeks ago. After losing Jamal Charles and trading charcuterie as part of a package for ODB, I have only upside stashes for backups to the increasingly unreliable Todd Gurley and Lamar Miller show. Hoping those two show something and I don't have to start Ameer in the playoffs. That said, I really like the kid and think he has the drive and passion for the game to really excel under better coaching next year.

I traded Abdullah for a plate of hors d'oeuvres.
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The passes to Riddick are just as much their short-yardage bread & butter as the run game. Hard to get into a rhythm when they use him so sporadically.

Yep exactly. They let the kid run it on 1st down, picks up a yard, and he's out of the game. Of course Bell gets the cushy screen plays. Why wouldn't he. Caldwell is a dunce

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The passes to Riddick are just as much their short-yardage bread & butter as the run game. Hard to get into a rhythm when they use him so sporadically.

Yep exactly. They let the kid run it on 1st down, picks up a yard, and he's out of the game. Of course Bell gets the cushy screen plays. Why wouldn't he. Caldwell is a dunce

Agree. He was running very well in the 1st 1/2 and yet they still want to get everyone to "eat" in this run game. I really hate this coaching staff. They are brutal on so many levels. Ameer had 56 yards on his first 5 carries.

I can't see why they are so beholdent to Bell at this point. Looks like Ameer is improving. I expected that from this kid (if you read his backstory he is hungry, humble and will gain weight moving forward). He was pantsing packers defenders in the open field early in the game. How they don't develop plays to get him in the open field more is beyond me. Especially since they insist in getting Bell the screens that Ameer could take for 30 yes or TD's on a regular basis.

Next year ... unfortunately we have to wait for then, and fingers crossed on the next coaching staff ... should be his breakout year.

Edited by Papa John's
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The coaching staff may have their reasons for the continued use of Bell over Ameer. My eyes tell me Ameer is the better RB. Maybe he does not know all of the playbook yet. The early fumbling hurt him for a bit.

I bet Ameer's touches continue to increase as the season progresses. Talent normally wins out.

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The passes to Riddick are just as much their short-yardage bread & butter as the run game. Hard to get into a rhythm when they use him so sporadically.

First couple series (and this is before they had four straight punts on drives of 3, 3, 3, and 4 plays), the touches were Joique - 2 Theo - 2 Ameer - 1. They're constantly shuttling in and out depending on down/distance, and it's fairly predictable. Load the box if Bell is in there. Get your best cover LB on Riddick if he's playing. AA is not threat unless he gets to the second level - amazing how often he gets hit in the backfield.

Joique had 8 rushes for 5 yards. Part of that was the five dive attempts against 8/9 in the box on the last series. They went for it on third and 12, turtled up on the next series when they could have ended the game on offense. You could say they turtled up a lot after going up 17-0. First drive of the second half was aggressive and varied play calling, very solid. Couple drives later they went for it on 4th and 2. Those aspects are out of character and directly attributable to ditching Lombardi. I don't know if Cooter got more conservative after they went up big early or if he was told to dial it back. They definitely stopped playing loose the last four drives of the first half and 2-3 drives in the second half. Good teams know to keep your foot on the pedal rather than play not to lose.

Did Ameer have even one target last night? Baffling. I know, I know, that's Theo's role. But he was a good receiver in college. I love Riddick but we need to get Abdullah the ball in space. You can't keep pounding him between the tackles and hope he finds a crease, mix it up a bit.

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  • 3 weeks later...

What a disappointing rookie season.

133-553-4.2-2

24-176-7.3-1

33-1013-30.7-0

2nd in kickoff return average is one of the few highlights. Gained 94 YFS week 1, season high 77 yards rushing v. the Saints last week.

No one seemed to foresee that Theo Riddick would more than double his receiving production - he's at 77-668-3.

If Zenner recovers they may cut Joique.

Will be interesting how the new GM and (hopefully) new HC value him going forward. Showed flashes but ball security issues plagued him all year (4 fumbles - once every 39 touches is not really acceptable at this level.)

Edited by BobbyLayne
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