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So, we are back at it this Saturday at Mercedes Benz.  Atlanta United are at 50% capacity (don't know if that's a MLS thing or team thing).  We made the cut this week so we will be at the match against the Fire.  Can't wait - our club level seats had just been upgraded to "free" food and drink last season when play was stopped (LOOK AT ME!!1!).  Sucked but supposedly it's back with packaged food instead of it being more buffet style.  Me and my buddy are both fully vaccinated and ready to watch some MLS in person.

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32 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

See this is the part I don't get.  Apparently unconstrained competition is good until teams spend anything they want...then its bad.  If some club wants to blow themselves up like Leeds, why prevent that?  FFP essentially codifies the top 6, PSGs, etc since they can't blow themselves up. 

Leagues fold over this kind of stuff. 

IMO it's like cycling.  The financial "dopers" win in the short run, which puts pressure on the teams doing it sustainably to join them and eventually the whole league is in trouble.

That's why every American sport has a salary cap.  Once courts ruled that players had to be negotiated with the owners figured out it was a good idea to put teams on equal footing and stop the arms race.

As I understand it that won't happen in Europe since it would be ruled illegal, but they need to do something with real teeth. 

There's not revenue sharing, which would do what you're describing, enshrine the top teams as top teams.  But that's already happened, so while new restrictions wouldn't change it they wouldn't be creating it either.  And teams would have to live within their means.

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27 minutes ago, Capella said:

Oh :shrug: That’s the new thing I learned today. 

One of only four clubs in Spain that are still owned by their supporters (Barcelona too). It makes it stranger to me how much Perez has been after the Super League given that he is just an elected position.

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26 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

The Bundesliga and Bayern are using the ESL fiasco to push their salary cap idea again to UEFA.   I fear that will fall on deaf ears.   

I'm skeptical of Bayern Munich trying to push its agenda on the rest of Europe.  They would have to finish 5th in the Bundesliga to miss the Champions League, which is essentially a guarantee without being an actual guarantee.  Probably half the EPL teams spend more than Bayern spends each summer, and its an absolute dog-fight to make top 4 in England. Obviously Bayern would love to cap spending for its European rivals.

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13 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

One of only four clubs in Spain that are still owned by their supporters (Barcelona too). It makes it stranger to me how much Perez has been after the Super League given that he is just an elected position.

That is actually kind of cool. Didn’t even know that sort of thing existed in major soccer still. 

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21 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I'm skeptical of Bayern Munich trying to push its agenda on the rest of Europe.  They would have to finish 5th in the Bundesliga to miss the Champions League, which is essentially a guarantee without being an actual guarantee.  Probably half the EPL teams spend more than Bayern spends each summer, and its an absolute dog-fight to make top 4 in England. Obviously Bayern would love to cap spending for its European rivals.

this is all true and yet when Bayern was offered the chance to make significantly more money in the ESL, they turned it down.

The Bundesliga in general runs differently than most Euro leagues.  They seem to be significantly more fiscally aware than the other big leagues.

The salary cap agenda actually germinated from the DFB first if memory serves.  Bayern hopped on to it later I think, likely fueled by the ideas in your post.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/german-bundesliga/story/4096820/head-of-germanys-football-federation-proposes-bundesliga-salary-cap

Edited by NewlyRetired
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23 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

All Bundesliga clubs are "technically" controlled by their supporters too.

RBL really threw a wrench into this.

Although I think most other clubs try and follow the general spirit of the 50+1 rule.   Hannover tried to get rid of it years ago saying it went against EU law but if memory serves they got out voted by a significant amount to keep it in place.

Edited by NewlyRetired
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Sounds like Josh Kroenke is currently having, a to be expected, very rough meeting with the Arsenal supporters.

He was asked about penalties for leaving the ESL.  He said their will be fees that have to be paid but they will not come out of the Arsenal club, KSE will bare the responsibility for paying them since they ####ed up.

Kroenke also told the supporters Arsenal had no say in the formation of the ESL, and that the train moved forward very quickly and that they made the bad decision to jump on (I think I kind of buy this). 

One supporter told him it was time for him and his family to leave the club because they have no understanding of the culture or sport.

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1 minute ago, massraider said:

If you subscribe to the Athletic, they have some really great writing on the Super League fiasco.  

They really put the screws to John Henry.  

Can you share a little more about this?  Do they believe Henry was the driving force?

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4 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

Can you share a little more about this?  Do they believe Henry was the driving force?

Well, I think it's pretty easy to push Henry and Glazer to the driver's seat, you only need to look at Project Big Picture for that.  And I think that is probably the truth, at least as far as English clubs are concerned.  I think three of the four vice chairmen of the ESL were Americans.  Kroenke is a snake, we know he's happy to do whatever improves his bottom line.  

Quote

Liverpool — John W Henry’s grand plan in tatters

Within 24 hours of Jurgen Klopp standing on the touchline at Elland Road and vowing to “sort it somehow”, angry opposition had snowballed to the point that Liverpool’s owners Fenway Sports Group (FSG) were left isolated with nowhere to turn.

It was a testament to the power of the collective as staff, players, supporters, sponsors and politicians left Henry, Tom Werner and Mike Gordon in no doubt about their distaste for their greed. Once Chelsea and Manchester City had jumped ship, the writing was on the wall.

Shortly before 11pm on Tuesday, confirmation finally arrived on the club website in the form of a 47-word statement.

“Liverpool can confirm that our involvement in proposed plans to form a European Super League has been discontinued. In recent days, the club has received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally, and we would like to thank them for their valuable contributions.”

No quotes, no one in the ownership group taking responsibility. No open letter to the fans, no apology for all the hurt caused. It was pitiful from FSG. Belatedly, on Wednesday morning, came a video message from Henry, who said “I’m sorry, and I alone am responsible for the unnecessary negativity brought forward over the past couple of days.”

Liverpool’s owners have performed some embarrassing U-turns during their decade-long ownership but none quite like the belated dance they did on Tuesday night.

Fans were furious over mooted increases to ticket prices, attempts to trademark the name “Liverpool” and plans to tap into government cash by furloughing staff in the pandemic, but these eased over time. They won’t be forgiven for this. FSG’s legacy has been wrecked.

Klopp had delivered on his promise by seeking urgent discussions with the FSG hierarchy on Tuesday to make his feelings known.

The manager, who wasn’t initially consulted about Henry’s plan — which was hatched during a series of Zoom calls with other rebel clubs — has always hated the idea of Liverpool signing up to a closed shop Super League. Klopp was furious the bond between his team and the supporters had been jeopardised by the damaging proposals.

Vice-captain James Milner had sent a clear message to the owners following Monday’s 1-1 draw with Leeds United when he reacted to the plans by saying: “I don’t like it and I hope it doesn’t happen.” Milner made it clear that was his own personal opinion but his team-mates watched that interview and nodded in agreement.

 

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1 hour ago, NewlyRetired said:

this is all true and yet when Bayern was offered the chance to make significantly more money in the ESL, they turned it down.

The Bundesliga in general runs differently than most Euro leagues.  They seem to be significantly more fiscally aware than the other big leagues.

The salary cap agenda actually germinated from the DFB first if memory serves.  Bayern hopped on to it later I think, likely fueled by the ideas in your post.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/german-bundesliga/story/4096820/head-of-germanys-football-federation-proposes-bundesliga-salary-cap

I think it was hard for Bayern and Dortmund to sign on to the ESL with the 12 founders due to 50+1 and needing to put something like that to a vote, but I guarantee they would both be in as part of the 15 permanent members by the August start if the league took off.  PSG likely had a problem due to its corrupt ties with FIFA and the '22 World Cup.

 

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Looks like Barca still believes in the project strongly.  I like the subtle jab at the English clubs for backing down and all the while still not acknowledging that the court ruling in Spain was ultimately meaningless in England.

=================

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club/news/2114445/fc-barcelona-announcement-on-the-super-league

Edited by NewlyRetired
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Can't remember if mentioned in here amidst all the ESL talk...Schalke fans waited for the team bus to return from its away game and attacked the players after the team got relegated. 

Terrible business. Wonder if Hoppe faced any of that.

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3 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

Looks like Barca still believes in the project strongly.  I like the subtle jab at the English clubs for backing down and all the while still not acknowledging that the court ruling in Spain was ultimately meaningless in England.

=================

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club/news/2114445/fc-barcelona-announcement-on-the-super-league

Based on the teams willingness to join and then the order of exit from the plan, it seems like the more you've screwed up your finances the more committed you are to the project.

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46 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Based on the teams willingness to join and then the order of exit from the plan, it seems like the more you've screwed up your finances the more committed you are to the project.

Real has basically been promising its fanbase that they'll bring in either Mbappe or Halaand and can't afford either without the ESL(at least not over Chelsea or City).  Barca likely sees ESL as a way to entice Messi to stay.  No idea if they can continue to pay him the money he demands.

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1 hour ago, NewlyRetired said:

Looks like Barca still believes in the project strongly.  I like the subtle jab at the English clubs for backing down and all the while still not acknowledging that the court ruling in Spain was ultimately meaningless in England.

=================

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club/news/2114445/fc-barcelona-announcement-on-the-super-league

I have to say I really appreciate the honesty of FCB's public statement.  Unlike some of the English clubs, who are offering up apologies and even offering up the heads of their executives, this statement explains the club's view that the ESL would "improve the quality and attractiveness of the product offered to the football fans."  Of course, what the statement touches on but doesn't directly state is that improving the quality and attractiveness of the product offered to football fans also increases the value of the product to sponsors and media outlets in Asia and other new markets, which is the whole point of the ESL.  The Henry's, Kroenke's and Glazers mea culpas are just setting this thing up for widespread criticism that this is all about Americans not being able to understand how football works.  Barcelona's statement proves how misguided that view is.  They all understand how football works - its a massive world-wide business that has rendered the small clubs and local supporters sadly irrelevant.

 

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16 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

I really like the look of some of the new stadiums coming online in MLS.  This one in Cincy has a really nice "no bad seat in the house" feel to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ezlv2hKWQAMpr_9?format=jpg&name=large

STL Stadium

And from Wiki

Design

The new stadium will feature a grass pitch 40 feet (12 m) below street-level, surrounded by two tiers of seating totaling 22,500 seats (with the ability to add an additional 2,500), topped with a clear plastic awning to keep out weather while keeping in crowd noise and avoiding disrupting shadows on the pitch.[34] The stadium appears to be designed with maximizing crowd noise in mind. Every seat will be within 120 feet (37 m) of the pitch, the closest of any stadium in Major League Soccer.

 

Another cool read

Edited by gianmarco
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The PR spin is in full roll...

Sky Sports News reporting that Woodward tendered his resignation to the Glazers because he could not support their plans for a super league.  

I call :bs: 

I have no doubt he was helping drive this with his connection to JP Morgan Chase and the Glazer's take over of United. But if it is true, good on him.  Without this ESL fiasco, Woodward wasn't completely bad.  He was a genius at sponshorship deals and bringing in the money.  He just did not know the football side and needed to be no where near it.  

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18 hours ago, encaitar said:

He has to keep the faith.  Real Madrid are nearly $500M in debt with no way out without this ESL.  

Which is beyond me why they can make huge transfers yet UEFA tells my CLub Milan to get their books in order as well as investigating @El Floppo Inter club. Certain clubs get to bend the rules on FFP I guess. 

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23 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

He's a tw@t.

I can think of someone far better and it Starts with a C and Ends with a T 

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10 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

The way MLS does business is pretty impressive given everything they have faced.   They are far from perfect but they manage their wallets fairly well.

Fun fact: One of the founders of the League's Business model is Former Arsenal CEO and now Current Milan CEO Ivan Gazidis. He was on Grant Wahl's soccer pod on Spotify about a month ago and they had some MLS talk on this. It's a 30 min pod if interested 

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8 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

Sounds like Josh Kroenke is currently having, a to be expected, very rough meeting with the Arsenal supporters.

He was asked about penalties for leaving the ESL.  He said their will be fees that have to be paid but they will not come out of the Arsenal club, KSE will bare the responsibility for paying them since they ####ed up.

Kroenke also told the supporters Arsenal had no say in the formation of the ESL, and that the train moved forward very quickly and that they made the bad decision to jump on (I think I kind of buy this). 

One supporter told him it was time for him and his family to leave the club because they have no understanding of the culture or sport.

Man United had their training Facility overrun by the supporters too. 

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8 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

Can you share a little more about this?  Do they believe Henry was the driving force?

Like I posted the other day he and Glazer were the driving force to this as well as someone who has a Newcastle contact I know were the driving forces to talk the BIG 6 in EPL to talk everyone down and disapprove the Saudi Finacle takeover at Newcastle. Amanda Stavely also accused the Big 6 of this and a article in the Chronicle is now saying we should look back at the Big 6 claims as the SuperLeague's driving forces were clubs that were against her bid for Newcastle. Mike Ashley Newcastle United's Owner to the amazement of most of us supporters wants to sell the team now finally. However now he's being c*ck blocked by the BIG 6 who fear competition

With Big 6 clubs in Super League claims by Amanda Staveley trying to takeover Newcastle become more important and legitimize her claims against EPL and Big 6

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7 hours ago, El Floppo said:

Can't remember if mentioned in here amidst all the ESL talk...Schalke fans waited for the team bus to return from its away game and attacked the players after the team got relegated. 

Terrible business. Wonder if Hoppe faced any of that.

Thats nothing compared to CONCACAFE's leagues. They got off easy :D

In all seriousness I hope non of the players were injured and people who participated in this were dealt with 

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6 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

I really like the look of some of the new stadiums coming online in MLS.  This one in Cincy has a really nice "no bad seat in the house" feel to it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ezlv2hKWQAMpr_9?format=jpg&name=large

We always screw ourselves in philly on these new stadiums. Don't get me Wrong I like The Linc (With the soccer feel of the Eagles logo on the seats that MR Lurie got on a trip to Europe), CBP the Phils play in and Subaru Park the Union play in. However a lot of the stadiums built after them I'm kind of jealous of in someway. I hope Milan/Inter stadium is one these amazing ones so at least one of my clubs/Teams has the hip stadium people talk about 

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In Non ESL news AC Milan have signed GOD/KING Whatever you want to call him AKA Zlatan Ibrahimovic to a 1yrs extension worth 7.5M Euros plus bonuses. 

Now to get GIGI signed which should come with a top 4 finish and we can start signing some new players. 

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7 hours ago, El Floppo said:

Can't remember if mentioned in here amidst all the ESL talk...Schalke fans waited for the team bus to return from its away game and attacked the players after the team got relegated. 

Terrible business. Wonder if Hoppe faced any of that.

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar in the squad as well

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9 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar in the squad as well

Relative to the team being physically attacked by its so-called fane, I'm not following...

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In ESL news from Milan many were wondering what Milan Legend and current Technical Director Paolo Maldini had to say. In typical Maldini form he acknowledged he found out Sunday Evening like everyone else. He was incredible upset and offered an immediate apology while talking to the SKY Sports Italia Microphones to the club, the supporters and players. Maldini on Monday  had Ivan Gazidis escorted out of the team training facility and away from the players and manager Pioli. Told Gazidis to keep business separate from the sport of the athletes. 

Gazidis wanted to talk to the Players about the big announcement and the Legendary Milan figure was having non of it. This is the second time in a year that Gazidis has gone against Maldini's wishes. First was last year trying to sign former Red Bulls Manager and former Technical president of all Red Bull Soccer operations Ralf Ragnick for this current season to Replace Pioli. Another former Milan Legend Zvonimir Boban who was part of Maldini's Director Staff along with Former Roma FO Ricky Massara had choice words to La Gazzetta Dello Sport in a non sanctioned interviewed where he had voiced his displeasure of the Ragnick talk as well. This ultimately had Boban fired on Just cause which Boban is now fighting in court for wrongful Termination. Maldini spoke out publicly about Ragnick saying it was disrespectful for Ragnick to walk into Milan thinking he can change the culture. Maldini even threatened resignation at the end last years campaign. However despite these disagreements it's confirmed that they both have a solid commitment to the project at Milan which was confirmed by Maldini 

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12 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar in the squad as well

Ah another Milan head scratcher from the Silvio era at the end. 

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8 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

Looks like Barca still believes in the project strongly.  I like the subtle jab at the English clubs for backing down and all the while still not acknowledging that the court ruling in Spain was ultimately meaningless in England.

=================

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club/news/2114445/fc-barcelona-announcement-on-the-super-league

Barca needs the money.

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There's also some reports that Referee John Cone go. 

Other reports are that John Laurinitis is now in charge of everything talent relations wise. 

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9 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

There's also some reports that Referee John Cone go. 

Other reports are that John Laurinitis is now in charge of everything talent relations wise. 

VAR fiascos will do that every time.

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On 4/21/2021 at 9:39 PM, Desert_Power said:

Honestly, the opinions of the players in this all are not given enough say.  They don't get enough rest/recovery time. Clubs and federations are in an arms race to fill out every piece of the calendar.

I don't know how the players do it.  Obviously they compete their way into fitness but with the travel I don't see how the find the time to train individually.  Soccer is just a step below the NFL in terms of toll and I don't see anyone suggesting 2 games a week and 11 months of competition.

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2 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

I don't know how the players do it.  Obviously they compete their way into fitness but with the travel I don't see how the find the time to train individually.  Soccer is just a step below the NFL in terms of toll and I don't see anyone suggesting 2 games a week and 11 months of competition.

Gungduon has come out and voiced is displeasure over the changes to the CL that were announced in the midst of the ESL debacle.  He called the CL changes the lesser of two evils (ESL being the greater) and that the current CL is perfect. He said there is a reason CL is the biggest club competition in the world.

He has bacisally also said that no one has asked the players how they feel about putting their bodies through this and adding games.

I guess there is 5 days after the end of the season before players report to Euros.  Not sure how the players do not have a voice in any of this?

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I've never seen this.  The 1998 England squad had a bet to see who could slip the most song titles into live interviews, mostly under the cover of cliches.

Alan Shearer is way quicker than I'd have expected.

Doubt you'd get away with this for very long today, someone on social would spot it right away.

 

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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1 hour ago, B Maverick said:

Gungduon has come out and voiced is displeasure over the changes to the CL that were announced in the midst of the ESL debacle.  He called the CL changes the lesser of two evils (ESL being the greater) and that the current CL is perfect. He said there is a reason CL is the biggest club competition in the world.

He has bacisally also said that no one has asked the players how they feel about putting their bodies through this and adding games.

I guess there is 5 days after the end of the season before players report to Euros.  Not sure how the players do not have a voice in any of this?

I would think part of the idea behind giving the "founder" ESL clubs the upfront cash is for them to build bigger squads to handle the increased fixture load. Has to be even rougher when you have an overseas international game midweek and have to play back in Europe over the weekend. 

But, you're right, soccer players seem to have a lot less say in these things than players in our domestic leagues. Ironically, they aren't unionized. 

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1 hour ago, Desert_Power said:

But, you're right, soccer players seem to have a lot less say in these things than players in our domestic leagues. Ironically, they aren't unionized. 

There have been many foreign players who come to MLS and while at first confused by the players union, usually quickly grow to understand why it is important to have for players.

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