NewlyRetired
Footballguy
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[MLS After Dark] Matias Almeyda's translator was just given a red card in the match against Colorado
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ramsay Hunt Experience
- Start date
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[MLS After Dark] Matias Almeyda's translator was just given a red card in the match against Colorado
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
=============
[MLS After Dark] Matias Almeyda's translator was just given a red card in the match against Colorado
https://twitter.com/johnspacemuller/status/1416593773770035210?s=20
El Floppo
Footballguy
So since actual game play is ~2/3 of clock time, somehow that ratio will magically go away if the clock time shrinks to the 90 min game play time? Impossible to figure that at 60 mins the new game play time wont shrink to 40 mins of actual soccer?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
So since actual game play is ~2/3 of clock time, somehow that ratio will magically go away if the clock time shrinks to the 90 min game play time? Impossible to figure that at 60 mins the new game play time wont shrink to 40 mins of actual soccer?
We have 90 minutes now which translates to roughly 60 minutes of play because the refs never stop the clock when the ball stops moving.
The 60 minute games are based on the ref stopping the clock during dead times.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Why not just stop the clock and don't change anything else? What's the benefit to cutting from 90 to 60 instead of just letting everyone know when time wasting is pointless?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If you keep a 90 minute time AND stop the clock, the games will run 50% longer than they do today. That would be a massive change in the game.
If you have a 60 minute clock AND stop the clock, the games will run roughly the same length as today but with the added bonus of time wasting being all but removed from the game.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Accuracy. Ball in play time is simple and accurate. Time wasting is hard to police. Stoppage time seems to be all over the place as far as enforcement goes.
We'd still have neat buzzer-beating stuff. A free kick from 25 yards out with three seconds on the clock would be appealing drama.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
I wouldn't be a fan of changing the time to 60 and stopping the clock with ball out of bounds. There is something to the constant running clock that is appealing. It ends up being roughly 60 minutes of game time so it works.
What I would prefer is the 5 minutes coming off with a yellow. THAT would be a significant improvement and would rightly punish those professional fouls as well as bad fouls. But, even better, it helps with the time wasting. Because then all you have to do is enforce the yellow for time wasting. Got a couple guys wasting the last 10 minutes of the game? Have at it. Yellows for both and you can play with 9 men for 5 minutes while the other team is trying to equalize.
To me, that fixes all of it in one fell swoop.
At first I thought no, but I'm fine with unlimited subs as long as they can't come back in the game.
No to kick in from out of bounds.
What I would prefer is the 5 minutes coming off with a yellow. THAT would be a significant improvement and would rightly punish those professional fouls as well as bad fouls. But, even better, it helps with the time wasting. Because then all you have to do is enforce the yellow for time wasting. Got a couple guys wasting the last 10 minutes of the game? Have at it. Yellows for both and you can play with 9 men for 5 minutes while the other team is trying to equalize.
To me, that fixes all of it in one fell swoop.
At first I thought no, but I'm fine with unlimited subs as long as they can't come back in the game.
No to kick in from out of bounds.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
One of FIFA's stated goals in the experiment (being used in Dutch and Belgian under-19 leagues this season, I think) is to shorten the game and maintain the attention of younger fans. If that's true (FIFA, Inoright?), then commercials won't be inserted into play stoppages.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I am fine with any change that removes flopping/time wasting from the game.
These are the biggest blights on the sport and they could be fixed numerous ways but the rest of the world does not really care so we are likely stuck with it for life
These are the biggest blights on the sport and they could be fixed numerous ways but the rest of the world does not really care so we are likely stuck with it for life
El Floppo
Footballguy
Nigel Tufnel : [about the back-stage buffet] Look, this. This miniture bread, it like... I've been working with this now for about half an hour and i can't figure out... let's say I wanted a bite, right. You got this...
Ian Faith : You'd like bigger bread?
Nigel Tufnel : Exactly. I don't under stand how...
Ian Faith : [gestures to the meat] You could just fold this... though.
Nigel Tufnel : [folding the bread] Well, no... then it's half the size...
Ian Faith : No, not the bread.
[folding the meat]
Ian Faith : You could fold the meat...
Nigel Tufnel : [still folding the bread] Yeah, but then it breaks up. It breaks apart like this...
Ian Faith : [putting the folded meat onto the miniture bread] No, no, no... you put it on the bread like this; see?
Nigel Tufnel : [folding the miniture sandwich] But if you keep folding it, then it keeps breaking...
Ian Faith : Why would you keep folding it?
Nigel Tufnel : ...and then everything has to be folded... and then you have
[holds up miniture sandwich]
Nigel Tufnel : ... this. And I don't want this. I want large bread, so I can put this...
[puts meat between two pieces of miniature bread]
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The problem I have always had with the running clock is the massive inconsistency game to game.
Sure, the average game may be 60 minutes in play, but throw some Honduran antics into the game and the refs NEVER and I mean NEVER add anywhere near enough time to compensate. You can have large swings one way or another game to game based on the refs and teams involved.
Sports should be about a consistent format game to game imo.
If the clock had defined stoppages, you would have exact consistency game to game and remove the enormous variability/corruptness of Fergie time vs a ref who just wants to go home,
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Kafka
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Well this was coming. Never would have guessed he would have lasted only 17 games when he was hired. Having a negative relationship with the teams best player clearly did not help.
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Atlanta United FC
@ATLUTD
Gabriel Heinze Relieved of Duties as Atlanta United Head Coach. Club President Darren Eales and Vice President and Technical Director Carlos Bocanegra to address the media at 4pm today.
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Atlanta United FC
@ATLUTD
Gabriel Heinze Relieved of Duties as Atlanta United Head Coach. Club President Darren Eales and Vice President and Technical Director Carlos Bocanegra to address the media at 4pm today.
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Somehow Eales and Boca keep coming out of this unscathed.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Eh... it's no different now IMO. No need to Americanize the sport. Just start giving yellows for obvious time wasting.
Kafka
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
Atlanta United have given Gabriel Heinz his walking papers
gianmarco
Footballguy
I understand. But that's where the yellow cards come into play. They just have to be given when there is clear time wasting. It would stop a lot of it when these guys need to come off the field for 5 minutes each time.
Funny thing is, if you asked me this years ago, I would have agreed. Now, I just know that's what it is and I know certain parts of it are better. Add the above and I think it would improve dramatically.
In addition, I think if you come off with an injury, you shouldn't be able to come right back in if you leave the field. I think that should also require 3-5 minutes until returning.
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
With this penalty box for yellow cards, would the next card still be red? Or can you get one/two yellows per half? Also would it follow the hockey rule and end early if the opposition scores?
El Floppo
Footballguy
Ive thought about that as well...ends up punishing players and teams with legit injuries needing treatment, which I don't like.
Nothing changes, other than having to sit out for 5 mins.
gianmarco
Footballguy
If you have a legit injury, you shouldn't be able to be hopping back on the field immediately. You also have incentive to get them off as quickly as possible to start the timer and not waste time on the field. It's also why I said 3 minutes, potentially.
El Floppo
Footballguy
you take knocks that require quick treatment- it happens quite a bit. having to sit out longer than even a second than necessary is punishment- and in my mind will lead to defenders going in harder to inflict them.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Again, the MLS 1.0 solution was just to show the true game clock and when the ref stopped it you could see that. So there's no incentive anymore -- you can roll around on the ground all you want, but everyone in the stadium can see the clock isn't moving. It was great and in my memory, no doubt affected by the ruinous work of nostalgia, it more or less ended all that time-wasting goofballery.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
There are bad hires, but this looks REALLY bad, especially when you couple it with a fight with your best player and a poor record
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Doug McIntyre
@ByDougMcIntyre
Not only did ex-Atlanta United coach Gabriel Heinze deny players CBA-mandated days off, he limited the amount of water they could drink during preseason practices, forcing the club’s medical staff to intervene, multiple sources told @FOXSports
B Maverick
Footballguy
I hate all these possible changes, and yes GET OFF MY LAWN!
As I was listening to the discussion on the radio this morning this was my exact thought "No need to Americanize the sport". NBA, NFL, NHL all stop the clock and start with an hour of game time. And each game is 3-4 hours or more. One of the best aspects of watching soccer is 2 hours and done. Clock never stops, and added time. In college they stopped the clock, no added time, had the fans counting down. Absolutely hated it.
I think there are bigger things to fix first: Offside and Handballs. Diving. VAR to an extend (use it how its intended, as an assistant, not as the ref). Game time, action time, kick ins vs throw ins.... Not necessary changes.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
But we have decades of proof that this does not work. Refs have been empowered for ever to do this and it is absolutely useless and time wasting is as bad or worse today than it ever has been.
Added time is a complete and total farce IMO. The refs don't even pretend to keep track of it accurately.
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B Maverick
Footballguy
The only ones that get booked for it seem to be keepers.
My only complaint with added time is that everyone keeps talking about it being a "minimum added" amount, then either the ref calls it before the announced time or then everyone complains when the ref adds more. You can not be upset when they announce a min of 4 mins and it ends up going 5. Besides, its really only for injuries, goal celebrations, subs and obvious time wasting. Just kicking a ball up 20 rows for a throw doesn't add time.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I agree and it is typically only on goal kicks too.
I notice refs almost never call the consistent small time wasting keepers do when they perform the easy catch and fall to the ground BS and chew up 15-20 seconds when it is right in the rule book, no interpretation needed, that they have to release the ball with in 6 seconds.
Refs simply refuse to give yellows to players who are rolling around and waiting for the stretcher to come on just to kill time. And the player rolling always knows the refs won't add enough time to compensate.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The US game against Canada really showed how silly the system is.
The first half three long injury breaks, 2 separate substitutions, 1 goal and 1 water hydration break. And the ref only added 3 minutes. He was off by almost 100%.
Bookings happen on three types of occasions:
1. GK, during goal-kicks
2. Players during free kicks in the defensive end, many times this might also be a keeper. But, the situation is usually, one player (a defender) lines up a free kick, then gives way to the keeper (or other player) to take the kick.
3. Throw-ins - player takes forever to throw-in, almost always at the end of the game, in an obvious time wasting manner.
ETA - and players get booked for time wasting when they boot the ball away following a foul - this might be the most common example, and at least as often as a GK gets booked for delays during a goal-kick.
B Maverick
Footballguy
This and keepers on long kicks are the ones I see most. Don't think I've seen a card given on a throw in in a long time, if ever.
I am pretty sure I saw one at the Euros - but it was pretty blatant - first player picks up the ball, then decides to leave it for the 2nd player, who then takes an eternity before getting the card. (But I could be mis-remembering)
B Maverick
Footballguy
Its possible. I didn't get to watch all the games or every min of each I did watch. Just don't recall seeing this happen.
Drives me nuts how long throw ins take in general (esp by Shaw and AWB) these days. As a side note, I also never understood why a player drops the ball instead of tossing it to his teammate, even if not wasting time.
I am assuming this goes all the way back to youth soccer, where you learn to drop the ball, lest the referee think you are taking the throw-in.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Peter Nowak is that you?NewlyRetired said:
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
yikes! It sounds like Eales and Bocanegra may not have done enough due dilligenceNewlyRetired said:
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[Pablo Carrozza]: "They accuse Heinze of limiting the amount of water Atlanta United players could drink in practice and denying them days off. In Vélez there were soccer players with eating disorders, who went to sleep without dinner so as not to gain a gram. I saw it.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I agree with all of this. I honestly have given up on fighting to popularize Soccer in America. Only way most American's will get into it is if the US becomes a world power or wins a World Cup or 2 in the next 20 yrs. American's love to bandwagon off winners but will cut you the minute there is trouble. People are more interested in the US Mens Basketball team because of how good they are. Maybe if the US wins a World Cup and some other tourney's people will get more interested, follow certain players more etc.B Maverick said:
I hate all these possible changes, and yes GET OFF MY LAWN!
As I was listening to the discussion on the radio this morning this was my exact thought "No need to Americanize the sport". NBA, NFL, NHL all stop the clock and start with an hour of game time. And each game is 3-4 hours or more. One of the best aspects of watching soccer is 2 hours and done. Clock never stops, and added time. In college they stopped the clock, no added time, had the fans counting down. Absolutely hated it.
I think there are bigger things to fix first: Offside and Handballs. Diving. VAR to an extend (use it how its intended, as an assistant, not as the ref). Game time, action time, kick ins vs throw ins.... Not necessary changes.
How did I become a big fan? Simple during my younger yrs I played this and Baseball. I was decent at Soccer but my dad pushed too much (Wasn't one of those little league parents you see negative on the news though), just pushed the wrong way. Maybe if everyone knew I was autistic at the time this could've changed and he'd gone a different route. I always did like the international football and when Freddy Adu signed with DC I became interested in MLS but not big time. I watched the 06 World Cup and always cheered for Italy and the US. The more Italy won though, the more obsessed I became. I remember for awhile I hadn't bought Fifa and ended up doing it after the World Cup. I think my last FIFA game was like World Cup 02 or something and wasn't really too in depth at all. I remember playing on the Playstation and when I scored the fun GOOAAAALLLLL came out with a big flag from your side of goal came out waving. When Italy won I became more obsessed. picked a team based on the players I liked. Most of the guys I liked were Milan players. When I finally got FoxSoccer at my house Serie A was covered by them and thats how I started to watch.
Looking back on everything now I do wish I played more soccer as a kid but I was solely entrenched in baseball and then watching Football.
Soccer doesn't need to be americanized. It just needs certain things fixed. One thing that needs to be fixed I hear complaining about is the diving and faking of injuries. However this is hypocritical when most of the time I hear this from people who watch the NBA. The NBA has a huge flopping/diving problem but it gets ignored similar to how the English ignore the theatrics and act like they play the game the right way. This drives me crazy more then anything. Especially since I believe FIFA has done a bit to stop this like not calling the foul for a flop, some cases I've seen officials give a Yellow for constant infringement of it, cards waved off for it etc. Yes more can be done but South America it's still bad and the NBA players make most of Soccer look like Angels today
Fix VAR and expand it more. Force leagues like the EPL to use it and use it correctly. I feel when it comes to VAR the EPL is the least progressive and I hear/see more English complaining to get rid of VAR then any other league. MLS Has used it well and there's a few times watching a Union match that VAR got a call correct that without it changes the match completely. Refs shouldn't be afraid of extra set of eyes and help. It also helps police a more physical game if needed between rivals.
One of my favorite things about the game though is the timing. Saturday night if Im not at a Union match I know Game is 7 or 7:30 ok I can go out with friends by 10 or 9:30. Milan plays at 9AM on Sat or Sun? Ok 11AM its over I got 2 hrs before the Eagles play or longer on Saturday depending when Florida plays.Work at Noon or 3? Cool I can at least watch the whole Milan match unless its at 10AM. Same with Newcastle. I can plan my day around that especially if I'm not working.
Milan their 2nd match on Aug 22. I'm going to Eagles Training Camp open Practice at 7. If Milan plays the 2:45 match It will be over by 5. Can just tell my buddy to meet me in South Philly as I come from the Cafe. Add in all this extra BS and it's gonna kill scheduling. Why because want to try to get a bunch of American's who are ignorant to sport interested just to profit off of them? Its not about growing the game anymore to them. it's just about profiting and people wonder why we got a Winter World Cup and Qatar?
DJackson10
Footballguy
Last I saw this was during a Toronto/PhI match where the TFC guy got booked for time wasting on a throw in. That was over 5 yrs ago though. However to be fair the time wasting was so blatant to the point if the Ref didn't call something the Lines Ref was about to call the main ref over to book the dude.B Maverick said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Throw in Specialists. That's all I can think of. When Sheanon Williams was playing LB/RB for us with the Union he had a rocket of a throw in arm that was almost like a corner closer to the OPP penalty area you got. He would take the throw ins close to the area on both sides of the pitch constantly especially end of matches. Union use to run plays like they were set pieces off the throw ins. I believe Conor Casey scored like 3 or 4 goals off these plays during his time in Philly.B Maverick said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
As a Union fan and too any Union Supporter this sounds all too familiar to when Nowak got canned before the 2012 Euros and the accusations came out. There was allegations of denying water, spankings to players, running laps during hot days, time not being granted off for practices, hydration break denials etc. On top of that he was also our Sporting Director and there were claims he had a scout or agent that if Nowak transferred said South American player from this guy he got commission from them for getting the player.
On top of all of this he ignored Concussion protocols and any player complaining about one was called a P8$$Y and other things and would play them in matches. He also seaked other jobs especially in Europe and USMNT when with the Union. It was pretty bad. Nowak sued MLS and UNION but lost. Last I saw was he was Lechia Gdańsk Sporting Director in 2018 and left that job too.
