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3 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

You should know better than to argue with me about weather ;)

Mid 60's at sunrise, mid 70's by noon.

I pulled up 11/6/2020 (since the race this year is 11/6).  Here you go

And, obviously anything can happen, but I actually looked up race day temps for like 10 years leading up to last year (since my wife is picky about that stuff) and it was amazing how good it looked year after year. 

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3 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

Start: Clear, 53°F, Feels like 53°F, Humidity 71%, Wind 5mph from S, DewPoint 44°F

That was the temps on race day at about 10am this year - that's from a strava run I did with a friend that was running it virtually.

Ah, my bad - I was looking at Sun Nov 8; not Sat Nov 7.

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16 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

We have a friend of ours that has a condo downtown Indy, so lodging isn't an issue. My decision making would be vastly different had I made it to Boston before, but I haven't and that's my priority. Putting myself in a position in which it's Indy or bust then getting November 2020 weather with no backup plan runs counter to that goal.

Pro for Indy: I'm also going to be aiming for my first BQ and depending on your time goal we can pace each other. I'm shooting for sub-3 here.

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3 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

not sure what date you are looking at but seems wrong.

I linked it up thread. Sat Nov 7 was what you described - Sun Nov 8-Tue Nov 10 was what I described. I forgot Indy runs on Sat.

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Just now, Harris said:

Pro for Indy: I'm also going to be aiming for my first BQ and depending on your time goal we can pace each other. I'm shooting for sub-3 here.

Yeah....me too.

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4 minutes ago, SteelCurtain said:

Wow.  This is a party.  I like @Harrisgoing strong with the immediate registration.  He's ready!

 

I'm trying to resolve how I handle Boston and possibly Indy.  I'll probably aim to race Boston but if weather derails me, then I'll make Boston a fun run and then race Indy.   

It was so close to future home base that I just had to. And with @gruecd pointing out that this is a Saturday race we can all celebrate and get hammered on Saturday night with no repercussions (that we know of yet)

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3 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I pulled up 11/6/2020 (since the race this year is 11/6).  Here you go

And, obviously anything can happen, but I actually looked up race day temps for like 10 years leading up to last year (since my wife is picky about that stuff) and it was amazing how good it looked year after year. 

If you are aware of a suitable backup plan within an hour of my house the weekend of Nov 13 then the if-then sequence of Indy-X makes sense. Given current information I am not aware such a thing exists. A plan of Indy as plan A (Nov 6) and local race as plan B (Oct 31) 6 days prior does not make any sense. The plan B must be after the plan A.

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3 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I also like this page to at least look at averages.  Obviously anything can happen on any given year, but having looked at these before, this is one of the "tightest" averages I've seen for a city at a certain time of year. 

The MW is very predictable late Oct/early Nov. It's why it's great for racing. It's generally mid 50's/low 40's except when a cold front pushes through or we get a southern push of energy.

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1 hour ago, El Floppo said:

@SteelCurtain eta...lol at Triman giving that a like...not you, gb!

Surprisingly, I do still remember my birthday.  :boxing:   I liked your birthday acknowledgement for the new quinquagenarian rather than posting my own.   :pickle:  

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7 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If you are aware of a suitable backup plan within an hour of my house the weekend of Nov 13 then the if-then sequence of Indy-X makes sense. Given current information I am not aware such a thing exists. A plan of Indy as plan A (Nov 6) and local race as plan B (Oct 31) 6 days prior does not make any sense. The plan B must be after the plan A.

I got 3.5 hrs for you....

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29 minutes ago, SteelCurtain said:

I'm trying to resolve how I handle Boston and possibly Indy.  I'll probably aim to race Boston but if weather derails me, then I'll make Boston a fun run and then race Indy.   

Indy will be my goal race.  I'm either going to fun run Boston (if it happens) or not run it at all.  My coach thinks I could recover just fine in 26 days, but I'm not so sure...

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29 minutes ago, Harris said:

Pro for Indy: I'm also going to be aiming for my first BQ and depending on your time goal we can pace each other. I'm shooting for sub-3 here.

I'm hopeful that I'll be back in PR shape by then, so sub-2:58:25.

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9 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

There's a reason I said hour - wife always has to work that weekend. I am regretting being transparent about my intentions. 

No regrets!!  Half of this is busting balls.  But other half is honestly trying to help get you an optimal chance to BQ.  While the pressure in this thread is strong, you're the last one that would ever bow to it and go against what you need/want, so it's all good  ;)

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3 minutes ago, gruecd said:

Indy will be my goal race.  I'm either going to fun run Boston (if it happens) or not run it at all.  My coach thinks I could recover just fine in 26 days, but I'm not so sure...

Sufficient recovery to race in 26 days is reasonable. To PR? Unlikely. There's a purpose behind what one does in training a month out and there's good reason a marathon is not a part of it.

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7 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Sufficient recovery to race in 26 days is reasonable. To PR? Unlikely. There's a purpose behind what one does in training a month out and there's good reason a marathon is not a part of it.

I know.  That's my thinking, too.

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All of this race talk is inspiring. 

I've got to get off my ### and find something local and snap it up before it immediately sells out (as they all have so far).

Would like to aim for an april 1/2, and maybe a fall marathon. Gian and I can shoot for 3:30...right, gb?

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Just now, El Floppo said:

All of this race talk is inspiring. 

I've got to get off my ### and find something local and snap it up before it immediately sells out (as they all have so far).

Would like to aim for an april 1/2, and maybe a fall marathon. Gian and I can shoot for 3:30...right, gb?

Yeah, sure.

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2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

No regrets!!  Half of this is busting balls.  But other half is honestly trying to help get you an optimal chance to BQ.  While the pressure in this thread is strong, you're the last one that would ever bow to it and go against what you need/want, so it's all good  ;)

I want to meet all you maniacs, but there's good reason I chimed in on that April relay Dr. Z mentioned a few months ago. I suspected Indy would be the last fall marathon I could do, so it wouldn't be plan A. My racing priorities will change after I make it to Boston, but 'after' is the key word. I know the range of potential outcomes are generally favorable for Indy, but they're not 100%. An if-then of the weather being perfect here on Oct 31 and a #### show in Indy Nov 6 then I gotta start all over again makes my blood boil just thinking about it.

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2 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

All of this race talk is inspiring. 

I've got to get off my ### and find something local and snap it up before it immediately sells out (as they all have so far).

Would like to aim for an april 1/2, and maybe a fall marathon. Gian and I can shoot for 3:30...right, gb?

Drive to Indy? :shrug:  I'm basically moving from France to the US just for this race so it's the least you could do.

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2 hours ago, gruecd said:

It's not like Indy is super far away from you.  It's 5 hours, same as me.

When will you people understand, @MAC_32 doesn't like you. Why would he want to play in your reindeer games? Buncha feelers you lot

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

Yeah, sure.

I'm being serious...hope you were. I don't see flying to Indy, but I think we can make that time wherever the races happen.

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1 minute ago, Harris said:

Drive to Indy? :shrug:  I'm basically moving from France to the US just for this race so it's the least you could do.

I actually just looked into travel there... 2+ hr flight, not bad. 11+ hr bus, bad. Just maneuvering through Port Authority would take a few years off my life for that.

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Just now, El Floppo said:

I'm being serious...hope you were. I don't see flying to Indy, but I think we can make that time wherever the races happen.

The only 3:30 I'm sniffing anytime soon will be due to a watch malfunction. No, I wasn't being serious. You're doing fun HM runs faster than my race PRs. We aren't in the same vicinity, GB.

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2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

The only 3:30 I'm sniffing anytime soon will be due to a watch malfunction. No, I wasn't being serious. You're doing fun HM runs faster than my race PRs. We aren't in the same vicinity, GB.

Yeah, @El Floppo - you're just now building a base. You're months away from having any idea what you're really capable of but it's a number below 3:30...and if you stick with it long term it'll likely be quite a bit below 3:30.

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10 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

I'm being serious...hope you were. I don't see flying to Indy, but I think we can make that time wherever the races happen.

3:30 is my pie in the sky dream for Indy.... we'll see how that goes... 

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Just now, The Iguana said:

3:30 is my pie in the sky dream for Indy.... we'll see how that goes... 

and given all the people that are lining up to come meet me that day, I better keep my butt in gear to make a real run for it. 

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4 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

3:30 is my pie in the sky dream for Indy.... we'll see how that goes... 

You're in the same boat as Floppy. You just have to start over now cause you took 2020 off :clyde:

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15 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

The only 3:30 I'm sniffing anytime soon will be due to a watch malfunction. No, I wasn't being serious. You're doing fun HM runs faster than my race PRs. We aren't in the same vicinity, GB.

:shrug:

Sorry, my mistake I guess. Seems like your numbers are getting there, and I feel like by the fall you'll have some good miles in your legs and will be able to build to that... Especially with the Mrs pulling you along.

I do think it's there for me as mac says, maybe even sooner if I went for it. But for now, my marathon PR remains 3:56 or something like that and regardless of any 1/2s, the target is still there. I do wonder if I can drop that recent 1/2 time- conditions on the day were perfect, with a backwind, two different pacers and mild temps...and I know that all helped a lot.

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7 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

:shrug:

Sorry, my mistake I guess. Seems like your numbers are getting there, and I feel like by the fall you'll have some good miles in your legs and will be able to build to that... Especially with the Mrs pulling you along.

I do think it's there for me as mac says, maybe even sooner if I went for it. But for now, my marathon PR remains 3:56 or something like that and regardless of any 1/2s, the target is still there. I do wonder if I can drop that recent 1/2 time- conditions on the day were perfect, with a backwind, two different pacers and mild temps...and I know that all helped a lot.

When was the last time you completed multiple months in a row averaging > 40 mpw? 50 mpw? and have you ever done the former when not in marathon training?

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25 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

:shrug:

Sorry, my mistake I guess. Seems like your numbers are getting there, and I feel like by the fall you'll have some good miles in your legs and will be able to build to that... Especially with the Mrs pulling you along.

I do think it's there for me as mac says, maybe even sooner if I went for it. But for now, my marathon PR remains 3:56 or something like that and regardless of any 1/2s, the target is still there. I do wonder if I can drop that recent 1/2 time- conditions on the day were perfect, with a backwind, two different pacers and mild temps...and I know that all helped a lot.

You could go out today and PR. 

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24 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

When was the last time you completed multiple months in a row averaging > 40 mpw? 50 mpw? and have you ever done the former when not in marathon training?

Never.

I've run two marathons...part of an IM on a broken foot w no more than 20m/w running (plus 100+m/w on the bike). And NYC two years later doing about 20 m/w with a newborn. 

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2 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

Never.

I've run two marathons...part of an IM on a broken foot w no more than 20m/w running (plus 100+m/w on the bike). And NYC two years later doing about 20 m/w with a newborn. 

For years I thought I had a ceiling. For years these maniacs told me it wasn't what I thought it was. Then I did a few months averaging > 40 mpw and I realized that ceiling was made of glass and these maniacs were right.

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51 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

:shrug:

Sorry, my mistake I guess. Seems like your numbers are getting there, and I feel like by the fall you'll have some good miles in your legs and will be able to build to that... Especially with the Mrs pulling you along.

I do think it's there for me as mac says, maybe even sooner if I went for it. But for now, my marathon PR remains 3:56 or something like that and regardless of any 1/2s, the target is still there. I do wonder if I can drop that recent 1/2 time- conditions on the day were perfect, with a backwind, two different pacers and mild temps...and I know that all helped a lot.

I ran a 3:58.

You could crush me easily. 

Sign up and meet us there. I will buy you a shovel. 

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12 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

For years I thought I had a ceiling. For years these maniacs told me it wasn't what I thought it was. Then I did a few months averaging > 40 mpw and I realized that ceiling was made of glass and these maniacs were right.

I trust you guys. And I'm doing my best to do 40- which is attainable for me if I run 6 days (20 +/- during the week and the same on weekends). Missing a day here or there puts me in the 30s. But thanks to you guys I'm feeling the benefits of banking those miles, today's pushed hill repeats going slower than I expected not withstanding. My long runs have felt easier to run at a more pushed pace and I still want to get my legs used to going faster with shorter speed work.

I'm pretty confident of running 8s for 26.2 pretty close to now if I had to, and confident of going faster with more miles behind me down the road. I did genuinely think gian was closer to that first goal for the fall...but for both of us it's a ways away from now needing to maintain the consistency. And less shovelling 

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12 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

I ran a 3:58.

You could crush me easily. 

Sign up and meet us there. I will buy you a shovel. 

BTW, it was funny seeing the flyby of a recent long run into brooklyn where I had to rely on pitstop #2 for pitstopping a #2. 

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4 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

I trust you guys. And I'm doing my best to do 40- which is attainable for me if I run 6 days (20 +/- during the week and the same on weekends). Missing a day here or there puts me in the 30s. But thanks to you guys I'm feeling the benefits of banking those miles, today's pushed hill repeats going slower than I expected not withstanding. My long runs have felt easier to run at a more pushed pace and I still want to get my legs used to going faster with shorter speed work.

I'm pretty confident of running 8s for 26.2 pretty close to now if I had to, and confident of going faster with more miles behind me down the road. I did genuinely think gian was closer to that first goal for the fall...but for both of us it's a ways away from now needing to maintain the consistency. And less shovelling 

I will go for 3:45 in July when I train well (hopefully) and have the benefit of a little experience plus the downhill. But it still won't be easy.  That's an A goal. 

Just getting in under 4 hours will be enough of a challenge in Indy.

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Just now, El Floppo said:

I trust you guys. And I'm doing my best to do 40- which is attainable for me if I run 6 days (20 +/- during the week and the same on weekends). Missing a day here or there puts me in the 30s. But thanks to you guys I'm feeling the benefits of banking those miles, today's pushed hill repeats going slower than I expected not withstanding. My long runs have felt easier to run at a more pushed pace and I still want to get my legs used to going faster with shorter speed work.

I'm pretty confident of running 8s for 26.2 pretty close to now if I had to, and confident of going faster with more miles behind me down the road. I did genuinely think gian was closer to that first goal for the fall...but for both of us it's a ways away from now needing to maintain the consistency. And less shovelling 

I totally believe in Gian's ability to run a 3:30 (or better) marathon if he set his mind to it but there is a lot to that, most notably time, which is limited by work and family for him, and his commitment to his wife and her schedule/goals. Both are far more important than race times, imo, but given unlimited time to dedicate himself to the craft and Gian could totally do it. I am 100% confident in that. 

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16 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

I totally believe in Gian's ability to run a 3:30 (or better) marathon if he set his mind to it but there is a lot to that, most notably time, which is limited by work and family for him, and his commitment to his wife and her schedule/goals. Both are far more important than race times, imo, but given unlimited time to dedicate himself to the craft and Gian could totally do it. I am 100% confident in that. 

Well said. I'll defer to you guys...I still have confidence in the guy who can crawl into that pain cave for fast shorter races- fetal position or no- to be able to stretch it longer with enough miles behind him.

I wish my wife saw my running as anything but an impediment to her time. I do my best to do all my runs before anybody gets up, but on weekdays if a stall or spend time on the can, my return pushes into helping her get the kids ready for school...which is uncool for her. As is the alarm going off at 6 or earlier...so it's a fine line.

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7 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

I totally believe in Gian's ability to run a 3:30 (or better) marathon if he set his mind to it but there is a lot to that, most notably time, which is limited by work and family for him, and his commitment to his wife and her schedule/goals. Both are far more important than race times, imo, but given unlimited time to dedicate himself to the craft and Gian could totally do it. I am 100% confident in that. 

Talent matters, but priorities matter more. And that isn't mean to say anyone mentioned should change their priorities; it's just reality. Productive marathon training requires sacrifice - before it starts and while it's ongoing. How much sacrifice? Well, it depends. If your best possible effort is a priority then you gotta figure out what you're willing to sacrifice then game plan accordingly. I've learned through my previous 2 cycles that if my goal is a PR I've gotta race mid-Fall in low vacation volume years. Otherwise I start sacrificing things that I'm not willing to. 

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7 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

 

I wish my wife saw my running as anything but an impediment to her time.

Yeah, this is an impossible battle to win.  I've experienced some of this, which is why I have been remodeling our house non-stop for the last two months. :lol:

I took away A LOT of her time the last few years.  

But I've also reached the point where I need to run for ME. If I don't do this, I start slipping away into a bad frame of mind and bad habits. Which I am feeling I'm sliding toward that edge now.

It's tough. We've all been there. And if a long race isn't in the cards, so be it.

You do what you can and move on.

Your running has been fantastic, by the way. 

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

Talent matters, but priorities matter more. And that isn't mean to say anyone mentioned should change their priorities; it's just reality. Productive marathon training requires sacrifice - before it starts and while it's ongoing. How much sacrifice? Well, it depends. If your best possible effort is a priority then you gotta figure out what you're willing to sacrifice then game plan accordingly. I've learned through my previous 2 cycles that if my goal is a PR I've gotta race mid-Fall in low vacation volume years. Otherwise I start sacrificing things that I'm not willing to. 

I totally agree. The guy in charge of some of the umpire training I am going through is big on pushing this. He is big into umpiring but highlights how it still only rates 4th in his list. I can't quite ever see me rating running as high as some do, even though I do like it having my (mostly) full attention. There are other things I definitely enjoy and thus it will get bumped for certain things from time to time. 

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11 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

we'll get @ChiefDand @Zasada to run 3:30 with us!

You could do 3:30 in your sleep.  

Me and the marathon distance don't get along, though.  If I run 3:45 for my next marathon (recall my PR is 3:56), I'd be happy.

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