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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
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gruecd
Footballguy
ChiefD
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I'm not really training for anything but I have done a bunch of "long" 6 and 7 mile runs recently including a 6 mid week after a 7 this weekend and now my normal 5k runs are feeling like good short workouts for when I don't have time for a real run and I guess that means I'm probably not going to burn many calories from just running MAF 5ks any more so I need to mix things up. I can definitely try to add milage to my schedule, I've been in the 20ish miles per week range either running 6x at 3 to 4 miles, or 5x with a longer run or two, so I feel like the first logical thing is to increase that to 25 miles but keep my long run at 7 miles or maybe 8 while I increase some of my shorter runs to 4 miles or longer so I can build up my base, and do a day of speed work (my outdoor running routes all have plenty of hills so I'm not sure I need dedicated hill work). Does that sound right to you guys?
gianmarco
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
pbm107
Footballguy
Sounds like a good plan to me. I like to keep my long run no greater than 25-30% of my weekly mileage and you're within that range. Running 5-6 days a week is better than 4 days with an outsized long run that takes days to recover from. I look forward to seeing your first 25 mile week on the Team FFA Strava group, though it is a shame you didn't signup for the pushup challenge you could be winning that.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Nice!
With this solid base going, I'd say to do two things:
A- speed work on one of your weekday runs. Farting. Intervals. Tempo. Whatever floats your boat.
Deux- make your weekend long run incrementally longer. See if it can regularly be 10+.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Two things I'll add:
Don't feel like you need to stretch out the short days. If you have the energy by all means, but if you're fatigued rather than forcing an extra mile you may benefit more sticking with MAF 5K's to recover then use the mid week run to stretch things out. You just did 7 then 6, so maybe next week go 8 then 6. Followed by 8 then 7. Then stepback and reassess.
And hills are a poor man's intervals. It's exceptionally difficult to focus on both increasing quantity and quality at the same time no matter the skill level. I'd focus on quantity for now (greater probability of sustaining health) and punt 'speed stuff' to a tbd later date.
gianmarco
Footballguy
So, jokes aside, it honestly is a matter of what you are trying to accomplish.
If it's weight loss, you're probably not going to get much more benefit overall than what you are already doing. The more workouts you do, the more fuel you will need, so it doesn't quite work out in significant weight loss.
If you want to try and train and maybe race in the future, then the plan @pbm107laid out is good. But if the goal is health, which I know is how it started, then you need to do what you enjoy with the primary focus being "what will keep me out here consistently". If you start bumping up mileage and finding it a grind and don't enjoy it, then it will be counterproductive.
For most of us here, the training for races is the carrot to keep us running and training. You already seem to be the exception to that, so find what you like, decide if you want to try and race and see if you like it, but most importantly, stay healthy and keep getting out there consistently.
bostonfred
Footballguy
So the reason I mention that I'm not training for anything is that I really don't care about running a half marathon which is the next logical distance. I did one 15 years ago, it was the only one I did, it was a fun experience but not one I necessarily need to repeat. I would definitely consider a full marathon a worthwhile goal some day but I'm not sure I want to put in that kind of work, I definitely don't want to train hard all summer until I actually see the return to normalcy with my own eyes, and I can always decide to do it later if I build my base.
What I do want though is to lose these final pounds. And running and rowing have helped me do that, with more running now that the weather is nicer (especially pre mosquito season). The problem is that if my MAF 5ks are getting to be "easy" the I'm not burning calories. So unlike a lot of people who actually like running, I'm not running further or faster to improve my running, I'm running longer and harder to burn more calories.
I literally went for a run a couple weekends ago, thought I'd add a little distance onto the 3 mile outdoor run I'd done the last few days, and ended up accidentally doing 7+. Which is fine but then I realized that the 5ks I'd been doing were easy, and that probably means I'm not burning calories the way I had been when I started logging exercise calories, and that means I need to change something or I'm not going to get those results. And I'll be ####ed if I am going to completely give up booze, strictly stay 1k calories under goal in myfitnesspal and run 6 times a week for any longer than I have to so if my calorie burn isn't going to be there for MAF 5ks then I need to change something.
So that's kind of my thought process on the speed training- if I'm "only" going to do a half hour run then I want it to be a good calorie burning workout.
gianmarco
Footballguy
The most weight I lost running was when I was doing pretty much all MAF. It was slow and super easy. And the weight kept coming off. Because calories were being burned but my appetite didn't increase like it did with any kind of non-MAF running.
So perhaps just keep increasing the volume of MAF and don't worry that it's easy. I was doing 2+ hour MAF runs that felt like I didn't run.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Anecdotally - my biggest weight loss year was when I took a big mileage jump of primarily easier miles. My body took a couple years to normalize to it then I had to adjust my intake.
That said, if increasing quality better fits your objectives then do that instead of stretching out the mileage. Ultimately, doing what's sustainable for you is the priority...doing both quality and quantity is usually an exercise in futility is all. If quality is your chosen path then I recommend gradually increasing the intensity. Speed stuff utilizes muscles in a manner in which they haven't been used in a (very?) long time. The last thing you want to do is to do too much, too fast, too hard, too soon then develop an injury. Keep @gianmarco's comment in mind though. If weight loss is your objective then you will need to do some planning/trial & error to figure out how to sufficiently fuel while also staying on a path towards your your goal.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Yeah it's definitely weight loss and health right now. I'm not burning the 500 calories because I will lose weight, I'm burning 500 calories so I can get my daily 1000 calorie deficit without cutting as deeply into my calorie intake.
And that's a great motivation to run because it means I can have my boring chicken breast with vegetables for dinner and have some sweet chili sauce on the vegetables and a baked potato with butter or maybe some pasta with sauce or rice and broccoli or something besides plain boneless skinless chicken breast. I'll literally decide to run based on what I want for dinner and force myself to run an extra two minutes so I can stay under my calorie goal for the day.
So the way I do things, running does support my weight loss- it supports me not losing my mind when I make a hard push to lose 2lbs per week for 3 months straight.
And guess what, running for an hour instead of half an hour is like 1000 calories. So ####### a I guess I'm a distance runner now. But I'm also concerned that my 5ks aren't going to burn as much as they used to if I'm running at the same old speed and distance. So guess who loves intervals or whatever.
gianmarco
Footballguy
If you have the time and don't hate it, turn those MAF 5Ks into 10Ks and keep it easy.
bostonfred
Footballguy
yeah this is exactly what I'm looking for with increasing my mileage and definitely plan to go easy on those longer runs. Right now I'm pretty much exactly 6mph, maybe a touch faster, and my heart rate is staying at an average of 144 which is a little higher than MAF pace but not bad for the distance because most of it I'm at or below 140. At least according to my watch and blah blah chest strap shut up nerds. My MAF 5ks I had been running 5.3mph on the treadmill and when I started running outside I realized I had been taking it way too easy on the treadmill recently. Which means I probably wasn't burning calories the way I thought. So my "speed work" would probably be running my shorter runs at something closer to 7mph and my longer runs at 6 or slower.
gruecd
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
right that's what I was thinking for increasing my mileage mostly with the shorter runs and building up my base. I think my progression is going to look something like
3.1, 3.1, 3.1, 3.1, rest, 3.1, 4.5 (where I was a few weeks ago)
3.1, 3.1, 4, rest, 3.1, 7, rest
3.1, 3.1, 4, 4, rest, 7, 4
4, fast 3.1, 6, rest, 4, 4, 7 (will probably be over 25 miles this week)
4, 4, 7, rest, 4, 5, 8 (might be over 30 next week and maybe a slightly longer long run)
And then on a day when I don't have a full hour I can still hop on the treadmill for a fast 5k or something.
gruecd
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure that this is supposed to be fartlek, but if farting somehow helps speed, then I should be way faster than I am.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
In my mind, I always picture any mid-run flatulence propelling me forward like a rocket ship. It's Newton's third law!
bostonfred
Footballguy
Yeah I've increased my mileage this week while also taking a brief break from the diet and adding alcohol back.
I think we missed out opportunity to sell pandemic running shirts with an arrow between a runners and a pedestrians face saying 6ft and the caption if you can smell my gas you need a mask.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Isn’t calories burned mostly based on mass and distance? Speed and effort aren’t a big difference maker other than taking less time to burn those calories.
At least, I’ve read that several times.
At least, I’ve read that several times.
El Floppo
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Was just coming to post this.
Way Back in my tri days, my coaches always talked about fuel and caloric deficit...90 minutes was a key length of time where the body starts cannibalising itself at longer times than that. They had us do long, slow runs occasionally as fat burners (needed to avoid binging afterwards the way I always do).
Zasada
Footballguy
Yup, Strava seems to support this as well. I burn the same calories with a fast 10K versus a slow one. The only difference is the time it takes to burn those calories.
The one change is that as my HR drops over time (at all distances and paces), my calorie burn drops with it.
I used to burn 110cal/km and now I'm around 60cal/km. Irrespective of pace. Even walking is about the same.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
No, I think it does. Mass and distance are the primary drivers. HR is just a third. Time and pace don't really matter (which I think was your point).
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
In trying to write an explanation, I think now I might be wrong. But also right.
Mass, time, and HR are the primary drivers for calorie burn.
But at a given fitness level, distance becomes the only variable that matters. Because mass is constant (most of the time). And time/HR are correlated. To run a 45-minute 10K, my HR is going to be 140. To run a 60-minute 10K, my HR is going to be 125. So a high-HR/short-duration run will burn the same calories as a low-HR/long-duration run of the same distance.
So it appears that distance is the only thing that matters, because the model is well-calibrated to the relationship between HR and pace (time).
But since my fitness improved over time, I went from running a 45-minute 10K @ 160 HR to running a 45-minute 10K at 140 HR. So my calories burned for the same distance dropped as my fitness increased.
Thus, on any given day, distance is the only meaningful variable. But, over time, improving fitness can drive calories/km down.
Clear as mud?
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Yes, that makes sense although the magnitude of the calorie/km drop you mentioned seems shockingly high.
gianmarco
Footballguy
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Its the same thing as lifting weights. If you lift heavy weights then you get stronger but then they aren't as heavy for you and eventually if you keep lifting the same weight you don't get as much out of it. Same thing goes using your core and legs to propel you forward and all the cardio exertion. You're better at it now than you were before so you don't need as much energy to do the same things. Do you get tired after running 7 miles at 6mph? I sure as #### do. I guarantee I burn more calories lugging my fat ### around than you do boinging along like Tigger bouncing on his tail.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
I'm going all the way back to my runs where I just got off the couch. That one was a run/walk and just over 100cal/km.
Yesterday, I burned 700cal on my 11.6km run. 60cal/km.
So now I need to run more (or the same duration, but faster) to keep the weight off!
El Floppo
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Pretty sure it's weight, HR, and activity duration.
I had a friend who was burning 2x the calories of me in the same activity, until he discovered he had input his weight in lbs, but selected kg.
El Floppo
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Thanks...I didn't remember that I had inputted my weight and HR info when I originally signed up.
ChiefD
Footballguy
"Excuse me sir, but I speak wristwatch jive. He said your mapmyrun is an outdated mode of recording running data, so go ahead and look at that strava for the info you need."
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Glad to hear about the continued improvement ..in running and health/weight loss. Thoughts I had:bostonfred said:
- you've done well to get those longer runs up to 7 miles or so. Maybe push that long run a little longer to get to a 'sweet spot' of running for about 80 minutes or so, which is commonly a solid threshold for benefits, including fat burning.
- for the shorter runs, one option is to push some speed at the end of the run ...raise the HR, which will stay higher even as you've finished.
- great that you get a regular dose of hills! If you want to mix things up, you could push the pace going up the hill...add a little more lean, and run more on the toes.
All in all, do what's best for you - and keep at it!
El Floppo
Footballguy
Had a nice "last" long run before the hm in two weeks. Tried to do what Mac recommended and push things a bit.
1m wu, 7@ cruising pace (legs and cardio moving comfortably, not easy, but no labored breathing) ~7:45 , 4@ race pace 7:00 +/-. A couple extra cool down.
Felt good. But got caught in an unforecasted downpour around m5... Made the hipflexors (a consistent tight spot for me) feel cold/tight with soggy cool shorts and am now in high nipple alert.
1m wu, 7@ cruising pace (legs and cardio moving comfortably, not easy, but no labored breathing) ~7:45 , 4@ race pace 7:00 +/-. A couple extra cool down.
Felt good. But got caught in an unforecasted downpour around m5... Made the hipflexors (a consistent tight spot for me) feel cold/tight with soggy cool shorts and am now in high nipple alert.
ChiefD
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
On another note: That wonderful feeling as you're about to call it a day and head to sleep...when you realize you hadn't done any push-ups for the day. Grrr. Drop and give me 50.
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