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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (5 Viewers)

Kind of bummed the only roundabout happens around monument circle and that it's during the 3rd mile. That mile will be dedicated to @ChiefD. The 2 lengthy sections along Fall Creek parkway will be dedicated to @gianmarco and the his tree that is no more. 

 
The Iguana said:
What's a paceband? I assume something like the little playbook wrist thing QBs wear? Pretty sure that's cheating. You have to do the math in your head or it doesn't count!

:D
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I get that it's weird for many other reasons, but this is one of the positives to racing with my phone in my hand. I can easily check my actual pace on the strava app rather than just seeing the time and having to do math.

 
pbm107 said:
Looks like a good plan, I forget do you wear a paceband?  For me a pacer can be helpful but I need the paceband so I know exactly where I am in relationship to my plan.
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Probably not.  I know that if I hit my mile splits I'll be right where I want to be.  The only time I use a pace band is when I'm running a race like Boston where I'm not trying to run even splits.

One thing I will do is turn off the Auto Lap feature on my Garmin and take manual splits when I reach each mile marker on the course.  Even if it's 1.02 miles because my GPS is inaccurate or I didn't run the tangents well or something, I still need to run it in 6:40-6:45.

 
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MAC_32 said:
I get that it's weird for many other reasons, but this is one of the positives to racing with my phone in my hand. I can easily check my actual pace on the strava app rather than just seeing the time and having to do math.
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That's why I like my watch, and also that it reads my paces to me every KM.  Sure, it will be off a bit (ref @gruecd's more accurate approach above) but it at least takes most of the thought out of it.  

Because 35KM in, my brain is not capable of math.  Only suffering.

 
Race conditions are setting up to be pretty much ideal for me on Saturday with 35 degrees at the start and little wind.  This is a small race without tracking and little crowd support.  I will likely finish in the top 5 and there is a chance I will be running a lot of the race by myself.  The course is flat and fast which I have run twice before in Sept 2014 and 2015.  The race in 2015 was one of the most disappointing races I have ever run and I watched a video tour of the course this morning that brought back some dark memories.  

I did all I could reasonably do in training and I think I have a decent shot at a PR, 1:23:23. Over the last six weeks I got in 66 miles at HMP or faster, which most ever for me.  The plan is to start out at 6:20 pace which would be close to 1:23.

 
Stride length.  One of the support team for the MCM was on the course at mile 19 taking some pics.  He got a nice pic of me, but I did notice my stride length was not ideal.  Running in two buckets of water the whole race didn't help matters, but it did get me thinking more about an issue that's been on my mind.  I've been aware that my stride isn't a thing of beauty in recent years (evidenced by quick views when I pass reflective glass in store fronts and the fact that the racers around me aren't overly impressive).  So it strikes me that the progressive runs that are a strong component of @gruecd's training are probably intended to address this.  I'd say that one key culprit for the pace slippage later in a marathon is due to the reduction in stride length ...the legs get tired, and they lose their lift/extension/rotation.  Proper training - such as progression runs - can help with this, as can a more deliberate focus on the stride rotation in the later miles.

Anyway, my goal over the next twelve months is to try to address this, and I'm open to ideas.  Strength work?  Stairmasters? RDLs?  My old standby of squats and lunges?  What can I do over the next several months before the specific run training next summer and fall (and before formal marathon training a year+ from now)?  This cycle showed me I can build the aerobic capacity to go faster, and the focused training built strong legs.  Stride length is possibly the final piece of the puzzle for an aggressive goal in Boston'21.

 
pbm107 said:
Race conditions are setting up to be pretty much ideal for me on Saturday with 35 degrees at the start and little wind.  This is a small race without tracking and little crowd support.  I will likely finish in the top 5 and there is a chance I will be running a lot of the race by myself.  The course is flat and fast which I have run twice before in Sept 2014 and 2015.  The race in 2015 was one of the most disappointing races I have ever run and I watched a video tour of the course this morning that brought back some dark memories.  

I did all I could reasonably do in training and I think I have a decent shot at a PR, 1:23:23. Over the last six weeks I got in 66 miles at HMP or faster, which most ever for me.  The plan is to start out at 6:20 pace which would be close to 1:23.
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How comfortable have you felt during those HMP (and faster) miles?  

 
tri-man 47 said:
Stride length.  One of the support team for the MCM was on the course at mile 19 taking some pics.  He got a nice pic of me, but I did notice my stride length was not ideal.  Running in two buckets of water the whole race didn't help matters, but it did get me thinking more about an issue that's been on my mind.  I've been aware that my stride isn't a thing of beauty in recent years (evidenced by quick views when I pass reflective glass in store fronts and the fact that the racers around me aren't overly impressive).  So it strikes me that the progressive runs that are a strong component of @gruecd's training are probably intended to address this.  I'd say that one key culprit for the pace slippage later in a marathon is due to the reduction in stride length ...the legs get tired, and they lose their lift/extension/rotation.  Proper training - such as progression runs - can help with this, as can a more deliberate focus on the stride rotation in the later miles.

Anyway, my goal over the next twelve months is to try to address this, and I'm open to ideas.  Strength work?  Stairmasters? RDLs?  My old standby of squats and lunges?  What can I do over the next several months before the specific run training next summer and fall (and before formal marathon training a year+ from now)?  This cycle showed me I can build the aerobic capacity to go faster, and the focused training built strong legs.  Stride length is possibly the final piece of the puzzle for an aggressive goal in Boston'21.
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I'm surprised by this.  I've always thought you had a loping stride.

 
Juxtatarot said:
How comfortable have you felt during those HMP (and faster) miles?  
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Not as comfortable as I would have liked, but I am hoping that was due to the cumulative fatigue.  During the HMP-10 intervals the first interval always felt forced and I had doubts that I'd be able to finish the rest of workout. The tempos at HMP I never had juice in my legs and they were a grind, but for the most part my HR was always under control. Hopefully I'll feel fresher after the taper.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I'm surprised by this.  I've always thought you had a loping stride.
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I think it's been in transition from long'ish and loping to a more abbreviated but quick stride.  I've timed my steps, and they're around the ideal count (180, I think).  But stride length isn't the same.  I'm aware I didn't do any of my "block strider" runs this past cycle (one step per city block over a 1/4 mile stretch) ...maybe I subconsciously feared the regression?  I'm hoping I can open things up and gain back some reach.

 
tri-man 47 said:
Stride length.  One of the support team for the MCM was on the course at mile 19 taking some pics.  He got a nice pic of me, but I did notice my stride length was not ideal.  Running in two buckets of water the whole race didn't help matters, but it did get me thinking more about an issue that's been on my mind.  I've been aware that my stride isn't a thing of beauty in recent years (evidenced by quick views when I pass reflective glass in store fronts and the fact that the racers around me aren't overly impressive).  So it strikes me that the progressive runs that are a strong component of @gruecd's training are probably intended to address this.  I'd say that one key culprit for the pace slippage later in a marathon is due to the reduction in stride length ...the legs get tired, and they lose their lift/extension/rotation.  Proper training - such as progression runs - can help with this, as can a more deliberate focus on the stride rotation in the later miles.

Anyway, my goal over the next twelve months is to try to address this, and I'm open to ideas.  Strength work?  Stairmasters? RDLs?  My old standby of squats and lunges?  What can I do over the next several months before the specific run training next summer and fall (and before formal marathon training a year+ from now)?  This cycle showed me I can build the aerobic capacity to go faster, and the focused training built strong legs.  Stride length is possibly the final piece of the puzzle for an aggressive goal in Boston'21.
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"Stride length" is right up there with "foot strike" and "cadence" on the list of things that I don't explicitly try to change.  I just do what's natural to me.  Enough other stuff to worry about.

Best of luck to you, sir.

 
tri-man 47 said:
Anyway, my goal over the next twelve months is to try to address this, and I'm open to ideas.  Strength work?  Stairmasters? RDLs?  My old standby of squats and lunges?  What can I do over the next several months before the specific run training next summer and fall (and before formal marathon training a year+ from now)?
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I find strides and hill sprints to be helpful for working on my form.

 
pbm107 said:
I find strides and hill sprints to be helpful for working on my form.
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My coach has me do strides at least 1-2 times each week.  Usually 6 x 20 seconds after my run, and almost always on the day preceding a hard workout.

Did some this morning, in fact.  The run itself was your typical "meh" taper run, but I did feel like a had a little extra pep in my step for the strides.

 
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tri-man 47 said:
Stride length.  One of the support team for the MCM was on the course at mile 19 taking some pics.  He got a nice pic of me, but I did notice my stride length was not ideal.  Running in two buckets of water the whole race didn't help matters, but it did get me thinking more about an issue that's been on my mind.  I've been aware that my stride isn't a thing of beauty in recent years (evidenced by quick views when I pass reflective glass in store fronts and the fact that the racers around me aren't overly impressive).  So it strikes me that the progressive runs that are a strong component of @gruecd's training are probably intended to address this.  I'd say that one key culprit for the pace slippage later in a marathon is due to the reduction in stride length ...the legs get tired, and they lose their lift/extension/rotation.  Proper training - such as progression runs - can help with this, as can a more deliberate focus on the stride rotation in the later miles.

Anyway, my goal over the next twelve months is to try to address this, and I'm open to ideas.  Strength work?  Stairmasters? RDLs?  My old standby of squats and lunges?  What can I do over the next several months before the specific run training next summer and fall (and before formal marathon training a year+ from now)?  This cycle showed me I can build the aerobic capacity to go faster, and the focused training built strong legs.  Stride length is possibly the final piece of the puzzle for an aggressive goal in Boston'21.
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As @gruecd eluded, I wouldn't recommend changing anything about your technique. I think you hit the target focus with the types of workouts, ones that require you to finish deliberately. Progressions, tempos, strides, hills, intervals, etc. They all require you to finish focused. Don't and you reap the consequences later on account of poor form. The muscle memory will develop organically and fire on it's own race day.

Re strength training, what have you done lately? Both pre and during training. 

 
pbm107 said:
Not as comfortable as I would have liked, but I am hoping that was due to the cumulative fatigue.  During the HMP-10 intervals the first interval always felt forced and I had doubts that I'd be able to finish the rest of workout. The tempos at HMP I never had juice in my legs and they were a grind, but for the most part my HR was always under control. Hopefully I'll feel fresher after the taper.
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I made note of a comment you made about your run Oct 10. It was 'the first workout of the cycle that felt right.' It was amidst the week after your step back week despite 3x2 mi @ 10k pace two days prior. I made note of it because that was the freshest you've been in 2 months. 

You've got this.

 
MAC_32 said:
As @gruecd eluded, I wouldn't recommend changing anything about your technique. I think you hit the target focus with the types of workouts, ones that require you to finish deliberately. Progressions, tempos, strides, hills, intervals, etc. They all require you to finish focused. Don't and you reap the consequences later on account of poor form. The muscle memory will develop organically and fire on it's own race day.

Re strength training, what have you done lately? Both pre and during training. 
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As to strides, I really haven't incorporated that ...but I see how it plays in to this discussion.  I finished a lot of runs with a strong mile or miles, but not just the beneficial short strides.

Strength training has been non-existent through the marathon cycle of the last four months.  Before that, the focus was mainly (and too much) on upper body work.  I have, though, used the past three winters - and will do so again - for cross-training with swimming and biking (bringing my road bike indoors through the winter).  

 
tri-man 47 said:
As to strides, I really haven't incorporated that ...but I see how it plays in to this discussion.  I finished a lot of runs with a strong mile or miles, but not just the beneficial short strides.

Strength training has been non-existent through the marathon cycle of the last four months.  Before that, the focus was mainly (and too much) on upper body work.  I have, though, used the past three winters - and will do so again - for cross-training with swimming and biking (bringing my road bike indoors through the winter).  
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I write this understanding anecdotal cases never perfectly translate, but - one reason I think this has been the best training cycle I've ever had is how I built my entire year around strength training.

Dec18-Feb19: priority - rebuild strength. I certainly didn't finish Fall 2018 weak, but I was definitely weaker than what I was going into it. This has been a recurring theme since I got into endurance running in 2016. So rather than repeating the same thing and expecting something different I ran to compliment, but my priority was total body strength 3x per week for 3+ months. If I had the energy to quality run somewhere in there I did, but it was always secondary. I only net 40+ miles twice between early Nov and mid March and never did more than 10 miles at a time. 

Mar19-May19: increase the quality of runs, but not distance - and maintain strength. The goal was to re-introduce quality running, but with a catch - the lifting could not suffer. Since I thought that's where I kept erring before that was the challenge during this period. I didn't try to make strength gains during this period, but I had to keep hitting my marks. If it was a choice between hitting those marks and a quality run then the run lost out. And I think what I have been able to accomplish the last few months is because of that stretch. Because...

June19: I wasn't healthy (don't think it was strength training related) and had to scrap my plan. I raced anyway, but I needed time to get right again.

July19: I was right again, but now I needed to rebuild the base before I could get into training. I alternated between strength and run cycles between the last week of June and the first week of August. That way when I got to August I wasn't in the spot I often found myself in before, needing to decide whether to maintain strength training or not.

Aug19-current: strength training has been overtly secondary, but I have maintained 2x per week every week but one. I believe doing so has aided in my recovery between priority workouts. Before during a training cycle at some point strength training fell by the wayside. I made a point of it not to let it happen this time. And I think by doing that I don't get beaten up so badly amidst one of the priority workouts then my body heals quicker before my next one then I do my next one better than the last one. The string keeps building off the prior one rather than a step back week being necessary to 'get right' again.

---

Since strength training has so frequently been at least a significant part of your regimen I wonder if you re-introduced it both before and during your marathon plan if it will result in gains you think you have but have not been currently realized.

 
MAC_32 said:
Since strength training has so frequently been at least a significant part of your regimen I wonder if you re-introduced it both before and during your marathon plan if it will result in gains you think you have but have not been currently realized.
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Thanks, @MAC_32.  I always appreciate your thoughtful approach to fitness and running.  I will be deliberate about this over the next six months as I'll ease back my running anyway through the cold weather months.  

 
28 and sunny at the gun Saturday, 37 or thereabouts and still sunny as our racer's are finishing. Can't ask for much better conditions. After you get out of the starting corral anyway.

 
Rolled the @JShare87flys for some faster miles and ooooh that was nice. Cool morning and really good legs and heart rate.  The shoes feel very different walking and warming up but at pace they felt different in a good way. I was moving well and conditions were perfect so I’d have had a good session either way but it’s a mental boost at a good time for me.  Will be monitoring my lower legs to see how they respond to the different ride. If all is well, might run in one more time for something similar to today and then save for race.  

Down to 4 key pace workouts and this weekend will likely be my longest long run. 

 
Officially signed up for my first event for 2020. Going to run the the Indy Mini Marathon again with 20K+ of all my friends...

 
The Iguana said:
Eat smart this week. Have a nice big pasta meal Friday evening. Making sure I have plenty of fluids. 

:shrug:  
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Are you eating any pasta now? Protein? Bananas for potassium? 

Not sure how the other guys do it, but I would start yesterday (Monday) on marathon week. Would probably eat pasta 3 times this week, along with some chicken breast, potatoes, bread, and usually some steak on Wednesday or Thursday.

 
The Iguana said:
Eat smart this week. Have a nice big pasta meal Friday evening. Making sure I have plenty of fluids. 

:shrug:  
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I'd consider moving the pasta to Thursday and make your big meal Friday midday instead of dinner. All that pasta isn't going to get in your system fast enough if it's Friday night. You just need something that won't upset your stomach, impact the Saturday morning plumbing, and has 'enough' calories. That can still be pasta, but I'd advise against 'big.'

 
I always eat bananas - almost always at least 1 per day - usually breakfast. I had left over chicken and dumplings last night, have a meal with couscous for lunch today. I don't recall what my wife has on the menu for tonight. By "big meal" Friday, it's nothing "extra" - just going out to an Italian place for dinner with my wife and daughter. Thursday evening, not sure what I'm having. We volunteer at a food pantry that night so it won't be anything fancy. 

 
The Iguana said:
I always eat bananas - almost always at least 1 per day - usually breakfast. I had left over chicken and dumplings last night, have a meal with couscous for lunch today. I don't recall what my wife has on the menu for tonight. By "big meal" Friday, it's nothing "extra" - just going out to an Italian place for dinner with my wife and daughter. Thursday evening, not sure what I'm having. We volunteer at a food pantry that night so it won't be anything fancy. 
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Just remember, you are going to burn about 3200 calories on Saturday. If you gain a pound or two this week that's normal.  Don't short yourself this week when it comes to food. 

 
The Iguana said:
I always eat bananas - almost always at least 1 per day - usually breakfast. I had left over chicken and dumplings last night, have a meal with couscous for lunch today. I don't recall what my wife has on the menu for tonight. By "big meal" Friday, it's nothing "extra" - just going out to an Italian place for dinner with my wife and daughter. Thursday evening, not sure what I'm having. We volunteer at a food pantry that night so it won't be anything fancy. 
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If it helps juxt and I had a back-and-forth about race week diet here.

This was also where the rice schtick stemmed from.

I'm sure we talked about this other times, but those 2 stuck out to me.

 
Steak tomorrow (Wednesday) night

Pasta dinner on Thursday

Blueberry pancakes for lunch on Friday at Cracker Barrel in Lafayette on the way down

Simple "chicken & rice" or something similar on Friday night.  Need to scope out menus yet.

 
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