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Ran a 10k - Official Thread


Ned

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Sup guys???   My garmin watch crapped the bed and I just started using my Apple Watch now with the Nike Run Club.  I actually really like the format (on the watch) and the plans....I mean so far.  

I miss strava though!  I'm currently trying one of those "work around" apps, its called run gap  to link the Nike account with Strava.  Anyone ever tried on of these?   Its currently importing to Strava, so If I upload 50 runs and ruin your timeline apologies in advance. 

I had just bought myself the new Apple Watch so I just assume keep it and not get a new Garmin.  

Running has been going pretty good lately.   The Nike plan adjusts with you, which is great for me.  It can toss in a rest day for you or slow you down if it thinks you've been pushing too hard.   Stuff like that.  

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3 hours ago, jb1020 said:

I had just bought myself the new Apple Watch so I just assume keep it and not get a new Garmin.

I feel like the GPS is much more accurate with the Garmin, but that's just me.  If you're good with "close enough," then you're probably fine with just the Apple Watch.

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2 hours ago, gruecd said:

I feel like the GPS is much more accurate with the Garmin, but that's just me.  If you're good with "close enough," then you're probably fine with just the Apple Watch.

I think Apple has improved.  I used to think that too, but I just got the 6 series.  Maybe it has improved?   My battery in my Fenix 3 was giving me issues. It would say it was 100% charged, then would be dead 10 minutes later.   It hasn't been a fun move, and may not even be permanent.  I have figured out how to get the runs on Strava.  I think I can even get them to the Garmin site now.  

Nike Run Club has no desktop view.  You can only look at your runs on the app thru your phone.   That seems crazy!  

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1 hour ago, jb1020 said:

I think Apple has improved.  I used to think that too, but I just got the 6 series.  Maybe it has improved?   My battery in my Fenix 3 was giving me issues. It would say it was 100% charged, then would be dead 10 minutes later.   It hasn't been a fun move, and may not even be permanent.  I have figured out how to get the runs on Strava.  I think I can even get them to the Garmin site now.  

Nike Run Club has no desktop view.  You can only look at your runs on the app thru your phone.   That seems crazy!  

What is this desktop you speak of?

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On 11/16/2020 at 11:24 AM, ChiefD said:

So...."Race" Week for the ChiefD Thankful For My Blessings Run.

Going to treat this like a normal race week. Will run the next three days and then take Thursday and Friday off for fresh legs for Saturday. Diet will be on point this week.

...

Trying to treat it like a normal race week as well, with the exception that I will be driving 800 miles on Friday.  I picked out my course over the weekend - I'm going to do a 2.4 mile loop ~5.5 times.  It's not flat exactly, but contains nothing that could be remotely called a hill.  There is one road crossing (which I'll unfortunately have to do 10 times) that is low traffic so shouldn't cause much issue.  I tried to do ~1/2 mile at race pace on Saturday and that was a little disconcerting as I was all over the place.  Haven't run anything at pace in months, so will be an interesting experiment.

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On 11/16/2020 at 10:24 AM, ChiefD said:

So...."Race" Week for the ChiefD Thankful For My Blessings Run.

Going to treat this like a normal race week. Will run the next three days and then take Thursday and Friday off for fresh legs for Saturday. Diet will be on point this week.

Plotted out the course this morning on Map My Run, and it is basically my normal 10 mile route with the extra mileage. Relatively flat course, but gently rolling hills throughout.  I am in no way fit enough to "race" this Saturday - plan is to go out and run this strictly by heart rate. 

My normal half-marathon heart rate zone is 170-180 bpm, so going to leave HR on my watch and let that be my guide. There may be walking involved at the end, but that's ok. Gonna carry my own water and a backpack of chews, so should be good there.

The only hitch in the giddy up is the weather - calling for rain here Saturday and Sunday. Hopefully that pushes out a day because the temps are really good here right now. 

Good luck to all that are participating. :thumbup:

 

Makes sense, as you're treating it like a race. 

I'm just going to do the airport run (the local hub is roughly 7 miles from my front door)

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One of my pickle buddies asked me what kind of pace I've been doing my linger runs...8:15s. Asked me what I thought I'd do the 1/2 in...8:15s. 

We'll see. But I dont see going much more than that given the limited speed work I've been doing.

#SOD

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3 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

One of my pickle buddies asked me what kind of pace I've been doing my linger runs...8:15s. Asked me what I thought I'd do the 1/2 in...8:15s. 

We'll see. But I dont see going much more than that given the limited speed work I've been doing.

#SOD

I know you haven't run a HM or even a race recently aside from our FBG stuff (from what I can remember), but I think you've got significantly more in you than 8:15. I'd be shocked if you couldn't get in sub 8, and you're likely closer to 7:45 without putting more work in.

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7 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

One of my pickle buddies asked me what kind of pace I've been doing my linger runs...8:15s. Asked me what I thought I'd do the 1/2 in...8:15s. 

We'll see. But I dont see going much more than that given the limited speed work I've been doing.

#SOD

Lol... you dummy. You just ran a HM at 8:01 like 2 weeks ago.  You ran 16 miles at 8:16 with a slow warmup.

You better RF;DBAP.

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17 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Lol... you dummy. You just ran a HM at 8:01 like 2 weeks ago.  You ran 16 miles at 8:16 with a slow warmup.

You better RF;DBAP.

Lol.

And that included a bear attack a few miles in.

Ok... we'll still see, but feeling better about things. Maybe a 1:45 goal.

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Alright, I don't know if any of you have experience with this, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I did my first speed workout in a while yesterday. I'm still in awful shape, but I like track work and it went relatively well. Surprisingly, the miles add up pretty quickly. Looking back, I ended up doing the middle 7 miles at ~8:50 pace overall. I was running 400s and then slowing to a jog, which was actually more like my easy run pace anyway. My AHR for the whole run was 158.

If I tried to run 7 miles straight at that pace, I'm quite sure I would struggle much more than I did yesterday AND I'm also pretty sure my HR would be significantly higher at end.

Have any of you raced doing a modified pace approach like that or even a run/walk method? I'm curious how long I could keep that up where I run 400m at 7:45ish pace and then slow to 10:00 for 400m. 

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4 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Alright, I don't know if any of you have experience with this, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I did my first speed workout in a while yesterday. I'm still in awful shape, but I like track work and it went relatively well. Surprisingly, the miles add up pretty quickly. Looking back, I ended up doing the middle 7 miles at ~8:50 pace overall. I was running 400s and then slowing to a jog, which was actually more like my easy run pace anyway. My AHR for the whole run was 158.

If I tried to run 7 miles straight at that pace, I'm quite sure I would struggle much more than I did yesterday AND I'm also pretty sure my HR would be significantly higher at end.

Have any of you raced doing a modified pace approach like that or even a run/walk method? I'm curious how long I could keep that up where I run 400m at 7:45ish pace and then slow to 10:00 for 400m. 

I remember being behind a run walk guy in a race once. Must have been doing a minute each and he would tear ### in a sprint and then slam on the brakes. I was too slow to get all the way away from him for awhile so it was amusingly horrible. 

And to answer your question, no.  

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55 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Alright, I don't know if any of you have experience with this, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I did my first speed workout in a while yesterday. I'm still in awful shape, but I like track work and it went relatively well. Surprisingly, the miles add up pretty quickly. Looking back, I ended up doing the middle 7 miles at ~8:50 pace overall. I was running 400s and then slowing to a jog, which was actually more like my easy run pace anyway. My AHR for the whole run was 158.

If I tried to run 7 miles straight at that pace, I'm quite sure I would struggle much more than I did yesterday AND I'm also pretty sure my HR would be significantly higher at end.

Have any of you raced doing a modified pace approach like that or even a run/walk method? I'm curious how long I could keep that up where I run 400m at 7:45ish pace and then slow to 10:00 for 400m. 

I saw a guy do that around mile 11 of a half marathon.  I think I averaged about 6:40 pace for that one.  He would pass me running way faster - maybe like 6:15 or 6:00 pace - and then start walking until I caught up.  That happened three or four times.  I don't think he was injured, it was a strategy.

I've often thought about this although it's probably not for me.  I like to try to zone out as much as possible.

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4 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Alright, I don't know if any of you have experience with this, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I did my first speed workout in a while yesterday. I'm still in awful shape, but I like track work and it went relatively well. Surprisingly, the miles add up pretty quickly. Looking back, I ended up doing the middle 7 miles at ~8:50 pace overall. I was running 400s and then slowing to a jog, which was actually more like my easy run pace anyway. My AHR for the whole run was 158.

If I tried to run 7 miles straight at that pace, I'm quite sure I would struggle much more than I did yesterday AND I'm also pretty sure my HR would be significantly higher at end.

Have any of you raced doing a modified pace approach like that or even a run/walk method? I'm curious how long I could keep that up where I run 400m at 7:45ish pace and then slow to 10:00 for 400m. 

You probably found this already because I think you've linked this site before, but this has a pretty detailed explanation.  It's intriguing, as on the rare occasion that I actually have to stop to cross the street during one of my runs (I typically make a right turn and double back to avoid this), it does seem like 10 or 15 seconds is enough to make me surprisingly fresh for the next mile or so.  I remember reading about this method years ago, but I don't know anyone who has tried it.

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25 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

You probably found this already because I think you've linked this site before, but this has a pretty detailed explanation.  It's intriguing, as on the rare occasion that I actually have to stop to cross the street during one of my runs (I typically make a right turn and double back to avoid this), it does seem like 10 or 15 seconds is enough to make me surprisingly fresh for the next mile or so.  I remember reading about this method years ago, but I don't know anyone who has tried it.

It is intriguing. I'm considering using this for some training runs to see how it goes. I might try it tomorrow.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that. 

ETA -- I've gotta do 5 miles at 9:00 pace tomorrow. Not terrible, but with the shape I'm in, it still won't be an easy run overall. So, I'm thinking I might try something like 4 minutes running at 8:30 pace then 30 seconds walking. Every 2 cycles will be exactly 9 minutes, so I just need to cover a mile with that. 8 minutes at an 8:30 gets me to about .94 miles. Leaves me 1 minute to walk that final .06, which is about 15:00 pace to do that. 

That should be fun to try to see how it works and how it feels.

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10 hours ago, Dr_Zaius said:

You probably found this already because I think you've linked this site before, but this has a pretty detailed explanation.  It's intriguing, as on the rare occasion that I actually have to stop to cross the street during one of my runs (I typically make a right turn and double back to avoid this), it does seem like 10 or 15 seconds is enough to make me surprisingly fresh for the next mile or so.  I remember reading about this method years ago, but I don't know anyone who has tried it.

At the Calgary marathon I ran (look at me!) last year, they actually had pacers for the run/walk strategy.  IIRC, it was run 10K, walk 1K, & repeat.  Various pacers for various target times using that approach.

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Goals

- Consistent 14+ hours training per build week

- Consistent 6+ hours swimming per build week, preferably 16k+ yards 

- Consistent 100+miles bike per week

- Rest and recover Achilles and knee issues through EOY

- Start brining in running super slowly Jan 1

Races / Events

- 10mi swim early July

- 70.3 June 19

 

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Weather for Saturday morning getting better. Forecast now is 45 with no rain until later in the day. Gonna be breezy - 9-10mph coming out of the N/NE. So my route comes into question a little, since the first half goes N/NE.  But I'd have a nice tailwind coming home. Will probably stay with that plan.  So about as good of weather as I could hope for.

Did a little historical research on my first couple of half marathons back in 2013. I ran a 1:52 in the fall of 2013 running basically the same mileage as I am currently.  Back then I ran more by feel of course before @Ned tainted me forever, so most of my runs were faster. 

So it will be interesting to see what happens this weekend. I'm hoping I can come in around 2 hours, but maybe a few minutes below that might work out. Will be fun either way.

 

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11 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

So it will be interesting to see what happens this weekend. I'm hoping I can come in around 2 hours, but maybe a few minutes below that might work out. Will be fun either way.

My legs are still feeling shot after seven weeks of high-volume (for me), so I'll just be running the distance (trails) and not running for time.  

Looks like temps of 20F, light wind, and probably some icy trails.  Will be rocking spikes for sure.

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1 hour ago, Zasada said:

At the Calgary marathon I ran (look at me!) last year, they actually had pacers for the run/walk strategy.  IIRC, it was run 10K, walk 1K, & repeat.  Various pacers for various target times using that approach.

Obviously talking out of my posterior here, but 1K seems like a long time to walk to try to compete with a run only strategy.  That's probably 10 minutes for most people, which means you're really going to have to run much faster to make up for it.  The Galloway stuff talked about 60 seconds of walking all the way down to about 15, which inherently makes more sense to me.  Of course, with the shorter breaks you're probably doing it more frequently than every 10K (I think every mile or two was the recommendation).

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I haven't applied any thought nor done any research on this whatsoever and not sure it applies anyway, but...

Just before a trail race several years ago (2013ish?) a buddy of mine said something I'd never considered - there is no shame power hiking up steep hills on these trails. To that point I had struggled in these things and having no real confidence how to race them yet I decided to give it a whirl. I mean, it makes sense - just walking amidst a race was a foreign concept. And that race was by far my most successful to that point - it was a 2 looper and I negative split by several minutes. As the years have gone by and I've gotten in better shape my criteria for power hiking has adjusted, but I will still pull it out if the conditions call for it. I'm not familiar with the trails I'm racing on Saturday and it is a short race (5 miles), but if I see an opportunity to walk for a few seconds then I'll take it. The boost on the other side is real, the likelihood of crashing far before the finish diminishes, and I don't think running speed is meaningfully different on a steep hill than power hiking - the former takes a lot more energy though.

How does that translate to a road endurance race? I'd think it depends on one's conditioning. The greater the bonk risk the more likely a run/walk strategy is to be successful. 

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13 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

Obviously talking out of my posterior here, but 1K seems like a long time to walk to try to compete with a run only strategy.  That's probably 10 minutes for most people, which means you're really going to have to run much faster to make up for it.  The Galloway stuff talked about 60 seconds of walking all the way down to about 15, which inherently makes more sense to me.  Of course, with the shorter breaks you're probably doing it more frequently than every 10K (I think every mile or two was the recommendation).

Not to mention 10K seems like a long time to run before walking.  That's only going to be 3 walk breaks total since I'm not walking at the 40K mark (voluntarily).

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17 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Alright, I don't know if any of you have experience with this, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I did my first speed workout in a while yesterday. I'm still in awful shape, but I like track work and it went relatively well. Surprisingly, the miles add up pretty quickly. Looking back, I ended up doing the middle 7 miles at ~8:50 pace overall. I was running 400s and then slowing to a jog, which was actually more like my easy run pace anyway. My AHR for the whole run was 158.

If I tried to run 7 miles straight at that pace, I'm quite sure I would struggle much more than I did yesterday AND I'm also pretty sure my HR would be significantly higher at end.

Have any of you raced doing a modified pace approach like that or even a run/walk method? I'm curious how long I could keep that up where I run 400m at 7:45ish pace and then slow to 10:00 for 400m. 

 

15 hours ago, El Floppo said:

I walked a crap ton of my marathon in the IM I did. But my foot was broken, so it was more a pain thing than a strategy thing.

This, and I wasn't injured!  More of a survival tactic. Definetly not sprinting between walks. Same more or less with my 12 hour race a few years ago. 

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19 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

...and I don't think running speed is meaningfully different on a steep hill than power hiking - the former takes a lot more energy though.

This.

I run trails fairly often with a buddy of mine who "runs" all the hills while I usually power hike them.  Granted, I'm a pretty fast hiker, but I'm typically right behind him.

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17 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I haven't applied any thought nor done any research on this whatsoever and not sure it applies anyway, but...

Just before a trail race several years ago (2013ish?) a buddy of mine said something I'd never considered - there is no shame power hiking up steep hills on these trails. To that point I had struggled in these things and having no real confidence how to race them yet I decided to give it a whirl. I mean, it makes sense - just walking amidst a race was a foreign concept. And that race was by far my most successful to that point - it was a 2 looper and I negative split by several minutes. As the years have gone by and I've gotten in better shape my criteria for power hiking has adjusted, but I will still pull it out if the conditions call for it. I'm not familiar with the trails I'm racing on Saturday and it is a short race (5 miles), but if I see an opportunity to walk for a few seconds then I'll take it. The boost on the other side is real, the likelihood of crashing far before the finish diminishes, and I don't think running speed is meaningfully different on a steep hill than power hiking - the former takes a lot more energy though.

How does that translate to a road endurance race? I'd think it depends on one's conditioning. The greater the bonk risk the more likely a run/walk strategy is to be successful. 

Yes, there's a local trail 15K (amusingly called Quadzilla), where while they change the course every year, it's usually around 1600ft of gain with a couple of brutal climbs (also in July, so it's usually in the 80s or 90s).  There are definitely a couple of hills where power hiking is the smart move.  My issue with it is more mental in that as soon as you introduce the possibility of walking, my lizard brain starts trying to get me to walk on every incline.  This is where, at least for me, I think a road run-walk strategy would need to have a rigid structure so that I'm not debating with myself when to walk. 

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48 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

Yes, there's a local trail 15K (amusingly called Quadzilla), where while they change the course every year, it's usually around 1600ft of gain with a couple of brutal climbs (also in July, so it's usually in the 80s or 90s).  There are definitely a couple of hills where power hiking is the smart move.  My issue with it is more mental in that as soon as you introduce the possibility of walking, my lizard brain starts trying to get me to walk on every incline.  This is where, at least for me, I think a road run-walk strategy would need to have a rigid structure so that I'm not debating with myself when to walk. 

I find running steep hills is just wildly inefficient.  Juice isn't worth the squeeze.  Better to save your gas for the less-steep hills and downhills.

Although over time, I am getting better at running hills (not the steep kind) efficiently.

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39 minutes ago, Zasada said:

I find running steep hills is just wildly inefficient.  Juice isn't worth the squeeze.  Better to save your gas for the less-steep hills and downhills.

Although over time, I am getting better at running hills (not the steep kind) efficiently.

Oh, I definitely concur.  You just have to be disciplined both ways.  I did the aforementioned race three times.  The first time I probably walked a little too much, but I was undertrained so that was the safer play.  The second time I think I pretty much nailed it by walking the really steep sections where you can't even have real running form and running everything else.  The third time I got sucked into the "maybe I'll walk this hill too, it's pretty steep" or "20 more seconds of walking won't hurt", etc., and seriously underperformed.

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42 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Waiting to get out today.  Probably in a couple hours.  Temps are great in the mid 60's (hi, @gruecd), sunny, but these 20 mph winds (with gusts up to 45 mph) can go #### themselves.

:bye:

Not a big fan of the wind either, but it’s a distant third behind humidity and heat on the list of my least favorite weather conditions.

This weather is crazy though. From hat and gloves one day to shirtless the next and back again.

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2 hours ago, Zasada said:

Two mornings in a row now with no @pbm107 run in my Strava feed.  Everything OK there, GB?

I hurt my back, I think it was from doing pullups.  I started noticing it about a week ago but after my run Tuesday morning I was really hurting but I'm seeing noticeable improvement today.  I guess this will be my forced offseason, hoping to start back up seriously 11/30.  Not sure if I will start a 5K or half marathon training.  Thanks for asking, I'll be back just taking a break.      

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Waiting to get out today.  Probably in a couple hours.  Temps are great in the mid 60's (hi, @gruecd), sunny, but these 20 mph winds (with gusts up to 45 mph) can go #### themselves.

I really wanted to do a slow jog through the trails today, but I've already been ran over by a car this year. Don't need to add a tree falling down on me to the list too.

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