Oh, come on man. You are one of the top runners here and it’s not even close. There is no if’s, shovels, or buts about it.I’m just a total fraud as it relates to running. So I’m trying to figure out what I need to alter in terms of habits, mental approach, etc to change that. I’d like to become a runner.
I live north of New Paltz. I’m in Red Hook (just north of Rhinebeck and across the river from Kingston. And not the Brooklyn Red Hook!)Thanks. Where are you again? Anywhere near new paltz? Used to do tri training up there occasionally- gorgeous area.
The shells I have aren't terribly waterproof...better for wind or light rain, and waterlogged in real downpours like this. The arm warmers seem to work best of the gear I own in the rain.
I've got a busy day starting at 9, so there's no waiting unfortunately. Tomorrow looks nice at least. Im running our slow 7+ m pickle with my pals tomorrow.. I'll switch it up go shorter today and add faster miles at the end tomorrow.
Notice that I'm writing instead of running....
Ok dammit. I'm off.
Thanks!I live north of New Paltz. I’m in Red Hook (just north of Rhinebeck and across the river from Kingston. And not the Brooklyn Red Hook!)
i work in Poughkeepsie.
once life gets back to normal, I’m in Manhattan several times a year for work.
I’ll echo what others said. I run generally in the AM. 5-7 am is my time when no one in my house is up. Admittedly, it’s tough in the winter being dark.I’d love to hear any tips, tricks, lifecycle changes, etc that may aid in making better habits stick.
Hmmmm. I’m not familiar with an Excalibur hotel in Poughkeepsie. What year was the last time you knew it was open?El Floppo said:Thanks!
Lol...yes...we've had exactly this conversation at least once.
Is the Excalibur hotel/bar still around in Poughkeepsie? ...and now I'm thinking we've probably already had that exact conversation too!
....counting fingers, crosschecking ages of kids... It may have been this millennium. Maybe.Hmmmm. I’m not familiar with an Excalibur hotel in Poughkeepsie. What year was the last time you knew it was open?
That plan is extremely detailed. Excited to see what you can do. I’m still sore from my 15 on Saturday and have a tempo run tomorrow. 9 with 5 at 10K pace.Got the first four weeks of my Milwaukee Marathon training plan tonight. Race is 18 weeks away, so my plan was to ease into things (especially with the baby due this month) and then hit it hard starting in mid-January. Looking at the plan, mileage is fine, but the workouts/paces are quite a bit more aggressive than I expected, and I told my coach this. Maybe I'm just being a big ol' poosay, and I need this push to get me back outside my comfort zone (where improvement occurs). Or maybe it really is too aggressive. I guess we'll find out.
Link to the plan for anyone who's interested. Note that I definitely do not weigh 199 pounds or anywhere near that right now: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e_IdWDD4Iu3eY3nr-XiOxyJSNGYBx-i6lIWatvlKoG8/edit?usp=sharing
This doesn't make sense. It's essentially racing a 10K (which is only a mile more than you're expected to run) plus another 4 miles? That kind of effort is hard to recover from.That plan is extremely detailed. Excited to see what you can do. I’m still sore from my 15 on Saturday and have a tempo run tomorrow. 9 with 5 at 10K pace.
Yeah I'm sure it's subjective, but I've always thought that tempo runs should be closer to 15K pace (the pace you can run for an hour).This doesn't make sense. It's essentially racing a 10K (which is only a mile more than you're expected to run) plus another 4 miles? That kind of effort is hard to recover from.
I do know that over this training period there will be times where you run a workout or LR with certain paces in there & those paces will be worth way more than the numbers show-- (with MORE effort too probably just because you are busy).....and that will be a factor. but there is NO WAY you cant run the goal paces in the next couple of weeks-total faith.
ETA: I hit my 2,500-mile goal this week. Currently at 2,522.
I'll defer to other more experienced folk in here, but I thought the long run paces seemed on the quick side. I also thought the 18 x 400 workout seemed like a big ask, although that did have walking rests, which I've never really done, so maybe they make you a lot fresher than jogging rests?Got the first four weeks of my Milwaukee Marathon training plan tonight. Race is 18 weeks away, so my plan was to ease into things (especially with the baby due this month) and then hit it hard starting in mid-January. Looking at the plan, mileage is fine, but the workouts/paces are quite a bit more aggressive than I expected, and I told my coach this. Maybe I'm just being a big ol' poosay, and I need this push to get me back outside my comfort zone (where improvement occurs). Or maybe it really is too aggressive. I guess we'll find out.
Link to the plan for anyone who's interested. Note that I definitely do not weigh 199 pounds or anywhere near that right now: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e_IdWDD4Iu3eY3nr-XiOxyJSNGYBx-i6lIWatvlKoG8/edit?usp=sharing
Good lord, you'll be fine by that afternoon.I'm legit terrified to look at grue's google doc.
Speaking of...
I have a colonoscopy on Tuesday. The wife and Google say it'll be a week or so before I should be up and at em. That can't be right though...right?
I'll listen to my doc, but anybody have first hand knowledge with this? I had one in my 20s and I don't recall any slowdown at all afterwards (no biopsies though).
Eta... Also debating running the morning of the procedure, but that's after a day/night of "prepping".
I could head out tomorrow I suppose, but had planned on a day off after a couple longer runs (for me).
Well I appreciate the kind words Chief, but I'll try to elaborate. Yeah, I suppose I have finished some 100's, but that's really not indicative about much other than being about to commit to 24+ hours of misery. And I really think that's the root problem for me. Because I can and have been able to, I do. But not even remotely the right way. And that's not healthy (mentally nor physically), nor what I want. And being able to complete a 100 doesn't make one anything close to a "top runner" in here (except for that bad ### mfer @SFBayDuck).Oh, come on man. You are one of the top runners here and it’s not even close. There is no if’s, shovels, or buts about it.
Look - you and I are similar I think. In terms of family stuff, job stuff - just life stuff. But the difference is you have talent. If you are a fraud then my shovels can’t scoop things.
Look man - if anyone can relate to the things you are going through its this guy. But I don’t ever want to hear you ever again say you are a fraud at running - you are WAY better than that and you know it.
Fight through the hard parts and just get out there. We can all find 30 minutes a day - and I need to do this as well.
But you know - one foot in front of the other. Do it man.
I'm legit terrified to look at grue's google doc.
Speaking of...
I have a colonoscopy on Tuesday. The wife and Google say it'll be a week or so before I should be up and at em. That can't be right though...right?
I'll listen to my doc, but anybody have first hand knowledge with this? I had one in my 20s and I don't recall any slowdown at all afterwards (no biopsies though).
Eta... Also debating running the morning of the procedure, but that's after a day/night of "prepping".
I could head out tomorrow I suppose, but had planned on a day off after a couple longer runs (for me).
Yeah, I would be pretty floored if you had much if anything in the way of restrictions after the day of the procedure.Good lord, you'll be fine by that afternoon.
I don't think the morning of would work very well. You'll be totally cleaned out and a bit weak, I think, plus still...pooping. Really I'd just take that day off.How about running the morning of, after (and potentially during) the super colon blow? I'm used to Brooklyn bears, but I don't think I can handle this particular sub-species.
You're not going to be in any condition to run after doing the prep, nor will you want to.How about running the morning of, after (and potentially during) the super colon blow? I'm used to Brooklyn bears, but I don't think I can handle this particular sub-species.
I found your 30 minutes per day.I've gotten through so many aspects of life by simply outworking people. Professionally? I'm not the smartest guy, but I will put in more time in the office than the other guy will.
Here is the thing. Strava helps keep me accountable.Well I appreciate the kind words Chief, but I'll try to elaborate. Yeah, I suppose I have finished some 100's, but that's really not indicative about much other than being about to commit to 24+ hours of misery. And I really think that's the root problem for me. Because I can and have been able to, I do. But not even remotely the right way. And that's not healthy (mentally nor physically), nor what I want. And being able to complete a 100 doesn't make one anything close to a "top runner" in here (except for that bad ### mfer @SFBayDuck).
I've gotten through so many aspects of life by simply outworking people. Professionally? I'm not the smartest guy, but I will put in more time in the office than the other guy will. Athletics? I'm not the most athletic guy, but I will out hustle and outwork anyone you put in front of me. Running 100's? I'm not the fastest nor most talented, but I will push consistently through to the finish while others start to question why they're out there (well unless my balls feel like sandpaper, then I will #### out ).
Any honestly, the running piece is just entirely depressing because I do the. Same. Dang. Thing. Every. Single. Year. And then I do that year after year. And here's how it goes. I start with an incredible base of mediocre and inconsistent training for 9 months. Then when the race is 3 months away, I start to consistent train (30-40mpw) but not to the level that someone looking to run a 100 should (probably more like 40-80+mpw). Then I enter race day in really good shape, but not good "100" shape. So then I complete the race and tell myself that this time will be different. This is the race where I will carry my training through into normal, everyday life beyond the race and make it a life habit. And then I don't. And then I eat crappy. My running consistency and volume falls off. And that continues until...you got it, three months before the next race. Like clockwork. And that's unbelievably depressing. The guy that would put his work ethic up against anyone can't do something as simple as you said in bold above. Find 30 minutes per day. Put one foot in front of the other and just get out there. It's really not that hard, right?
So I'm trying to figure out how to change that, keep it simple, start small, and find consistency. Just wish there was some flip I could switch where I'd actually do it, stick to it, and be so confident about it that I'd actually tell people that I was a runner and actually enjoy talking about it like you guys do without feeling like a total fraud, which is 100% how I feel about it. Why do you think I never wanted to join Strava? So that others wouldn't actually see this.
But it's time to just get it done. The pity party of doing this same #### year after year has to end. I'm going to start holding myself accountable and getting it done. Not for one week. Not for a month. And not for a race. For a lifestyle. To be fit and healthy. Find 30 minutes per day. One foot in front of the other.
Got it. I’ll shoot for somewhere around 7:00 flat. Had some things go on last night and wasn’t able to get out. Will move the schedule back a day and get out there in the morning.Yeah I'm sure it's subjective, but I've always thought that tempo runs should be closer to 15K pace (the pace you can run for an hour).
This was my favorite partGot the first four weeks of my Milwaukee Marathon training plan tonight. Race is 18 weeks away, so my plan was to ease into things (especially with the baby due this month) and then hit it hard starting in mid-January. Looking at the plan, mileage is fine, but the workouts/paces are quite a bit more aggressive than I expected, and I told my coach this. Maybe I'm just being a big ol' poosay, and I need this push to get me back outside my comfort zone (where improvement occurs). Or maybe it really is too aggressive. I guess we'll find out.
Link to the plan for anyone who's interested. Note that I definitely do not weigh 199 pounds or anywhere near that right now: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e_IdWDD4Iu3eY3nr-XiOxyJSNGYBx-i6lIWatvlKoG8/edit?usp=sharing
This is me. Strava has been huge at keeping me pushing for numbers.I'm obsessed over my stupid graph and I love seeing the 50 miles per week for the last 4 weeks. Its stupid, but its getting my fat a$$ out there when I just want to stay in bed some days.
I don't care about your silly plan or goals. What I am impressed with is the copious amounts of CAPTILIZATIONS throughout the ENTIRE document :chefskiss:From my coach:
I do know that over this training period there will be times where you run a workout or LR with certain paces in there & those paces will be worth way more than the numbers show-- (with MORE effort too probably just because you are busy).....and that will be a factor. but there is NO WAY you cant run the goal paces in the next couple of weeks-total faith.
I don't understand the purpose behind 18x400, but am curious to learn the logic behind it.I'll defer to other more experienced folk in here, but I thought the long run paces seemed on the quick side. I also thought the 18 x 400 workout seemed like a big ask, although that did have walking rests, which I've never really done, so maybe they make you a lot fresher than jogging rests?
Man, you just described me as well.Any honestly, the running piece is just entirely depressing because I do the. Same. Dang. Thing. Every. Single. Year. And then I do that year after year. And here's how it goes. I start with an incredible base of mediocre and inconsistent training for 9 months. Then when the race is 3 months away, I start to consistent train (30-40mpw) but not to the level that someone looking to run a 100 should (probably more like 40-80+mpw). Then I enter race day in really good shape, but not good "100" shape. So then I complete the race and tell myself that this time will be different. This is the race where I will carry my training through into normal, everyday life beyond the race and make it a life habit. And then I don't. And then I eat crappy. My running consistency and volume falls off. And that continues until...you got it, three months before the next race. Like clockwork. And that's unbelievably depressing. The guy that would put his work ethic up against anyone can't do something as simple as you said in bold above. Find 30 minutes per day. Put one foot in front of the other and just get out there. It's really not that hard, right?
So I'm trying to figure out how to change that, keep it simple, start small, and find consistency. Just wish there was some flip I could switch where I'd actually do it, stick to it, and be so confident about it that I'd actually tell people that I was a runner and actually enjoy talking about it like you guys do without feeling like a total fraud, which is 100% how I feel about it.
It may seem like a bit of a crutch (and easier said than done during covid times), but if having a race coming up gets you out in the months prior, could you start by staggering races (not necessarily 100 milers) throughout the year? That's what made me sign up for a spring half marathon a few years back - I wanted to force myself to run regularly through the winter. Now that I've gotten used to training in the bad weather, I don't seem to need the carrot in front of me anymore, but I'm not sure I would have gotten to that point if I hadn't had the fear of failing a race to ingrain the habit.Any honestly, the running piece is just entirely depressing because I do the. Same. Dang. Thing. Every. Single. Year. And then I do that year after year. And here's how it goes. I start with an incredible base of mediocre and inconsistent training for 9 months. Then when the race is 3 months away, I start to consistent train (30-40mpw) but not to the level that someone looking to run a 100 should (probably more like 40-80+mpw). Then I enter race day in really good shape, but not good "100" shape. So then I complete the race and tell myself that this time will be different. This is the race where I will carry my training through into normal, everyday life beyond the race and make it a life habit. And then I don't. And then I eat crappy. My running consistency and volume falls off. And that continues until...you got it, three months before the next race. Like clockwork. And that's unbelievably depressing. The guy that would put his work ethic up against anyone can't do something as simple as you said in bold above. Find 30 minutes per day. Put one foot in front of the other and just get out there. It's really not that hard, right?
Just a hunch, but I bet it's actually a majority of us who feel this way.One thing I have learned is I'm just not wired like a lot of the folks here. I don't love running - as a matter of fact I really hate it. I love the benefits of running though.
I was thinking about this yesterday during my long run. Since I don't listen to music anymore when I run, I have plenty of time for thoughts and they are almost always related to running the entire time for whatever reason.Just a hunch, but I bet it's actually a majority of us who feel this way.
Personally, I don't hate running, but I certainly don't love it nearly as much as I love the benefits.
This is when I feel it:I was thinking about this yesterday during my long run. Since I don't listen to music anymore when I run, I have plenty of time for thoughts and they are almost always related to running the entire time for whatever reason.
Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys get a runner's high when you run? If so, how long into your run and how long does it last? What does it feel like?
I don't think I ever have. I mean, the only thing perhaps is that my run will feel easier after about 4-5 miles in but it's more that I just feel like I get into a groove and not some euphoric feeling.
https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20851505/how-to-achieve-a-runners-high/The Trigger: Endorphins
Nature’s home-brewed opiates, endorphins are chemicals that act a lot like their medically engineered counterpart, morphine. Runners have credited them for their feel-good effects for decades, but it wasn’t until 2008 that German researchers used brain scans on runners and were able to identify exactly where they originated. The scientists found that during two-hour-long runs, subjects’ prefrontal and limbic regions (which light up in response to emotions like love) spewed out endorphins. The greater the endorphin surge in these brain areas, the more euphoric the runners reported feeling.
Get It: Push yourself hard, but not too hard. Endorphins are painkillers produced in response to physical discomfort, says Matthew Hill, Ph.D., an associate professor at the University of Calgary’s Hotchkiss Brain Institute. But that doesn’t mean your runs should be excruciating; you need to find a sweet spot where they are comfortably challenging (think tempo run).
In the German study, for example, the subjects were experienced runners for whom a two-hour run at a six-to seven-mile-an-hour pace wasn’t easy nor was it gut-busting. “Most runners I have worked with experience endorphins when they are pushing their bodies, but not usually at max effort,” says Cindra S. Kamphoff, Ph.D., director of the Center for Sport and Performance Psychology at Minnesota State University. A short, casual run likely won’t produce enough discomfort to trigger a rush. Attempt a pace or distance that’s too aggressive, and you’ll possibly be too overwhelmed by the effort to feel good. As powerful as they are, endorphins can’t override an injury or lack of training (which is why newbies aren’t likely to feel elated when they are just starting out).
I get it once in a while. Usually towards the end or after a run or race of purpose. I’ve never slogged through a 5 mile recovery and been all giddy about it. Towards the end and after my 2nd marathon was one of the highest highs I’ve ever experienced in my life. Been chasing that feeling for years.gianmarco said:I was thinking about this yesterday during my long run. Since I don't listen to music anymore when I run, I have plenty of time for thoughts and they are almost always related to running the entire time for whatever reason.
Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys get a runner's high when you run? If so, how long into your run and how long does it last? What does it feel like?
I don't think I ever have. I mean, the only thing perhaps is that my run will feel easier after about 4-5 miles in but it's more that I just feel like I get into a groove and not some euphoric feeling.
Yesgianmarco said:I was thinking about this yesterday during my long run. Since I don't listen to music anymore when I run, I have plenty of time for thoughts and they are almost always related to running the entire time for whatever reason.
Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys get a runner's high when you run? If so, how long into your run and how long does it last? What does it feel like?
I don't think I ever have. I mean, the only thing perhaps is that my run will feel easier after about 4-5 miles in but it's more that I just feel like I get into a groove and not some euphoric feeling.
Confident you will get there. I think smaller bites like you mention are the key. I would not be able to execute at the extremes of ultra racing from both the distance and the toll and recovery needs. I need smaller bites to keep going and for the mental health lift I get from accountability and routine.SayWhat? said:But it's time to just get it done. The pity party of doing this same #### year after year has to end. I'm going to start holding myself accountable and getting it done. Not for one week. Not for a month. And not for a race. For a lifestyle. To be fit and healthy. Find 30 minutes per day. One foot in front of the other.
I think I'm more wired this way too. I actually don't like training for a specific race. There's a schedule, a time crunch, a feeling of "don't want to miss out on this run" that I'm not a big fan of.Yes
It varies wildly depending on many factors that are unique to each run
And, that word I used this morning - zen.
---
I've gotten away from responding to motivational inquiries lately because I realize I'm not wired like most. Chef was right when he said it sometime last year - I'm driven by the process. I don't overtly apply energy into thinking about how my decisions I make today will impact future me; it's just my instincts. And over the years I've realized those instincts are...not common. i.e. I had no plan for this morning's run, I was out at a park after appointments and knew I was pressed for time on the other side and just went. After a few minutes I happened to be heading towards a hill then both rewound over the last few days and fast forwarded through the next few and said to myself - hill repeats sounds good. I then put my focus on it and shut everything else out and just did them. How does one get to that point? And is it even a desirable spot? Beats me.
Not sure I’ve really felt it, I think it’s incumbent to be fit in order to really have a high long enough to ride. I normally am feeling something other than zen when running. Either fatigue or thinking about something or that it’s dark or cold or hot or think ‘#### I need to get home’.gianmarco said:I was thinking about this yesterday during my long run. Since I don't listen to music anymore when I run, I have plenty of time for thoughts and they are almost always related to running the entire time for whatever reason.
Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys get a runner's high when you run? If so, how long into your run and how long does it last? What does it feel like?
I don't think I ever have. I mean, the only thing perhaps is that my run will feel easier after about 4-5 miles in but it's more that I just feel like I get into a groove and not some euphoric feeling.
I remember one run vividly on Good Friday where I went for about 7 miles in the afternoon (which was near if not the longest I had ever run at that point) where I just felt bliss the last few miles, and I felt like I could have run another 30 minutes or more. That's the only time I've really felt it at an intense level.gianmarco said:Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys get a runner's high when you run? If so, how long into your run and how long does it last? What does it feel like?
Yep, the amount of time committed to my job is a detriment. The problem is, I kind of need to commit that amount of time in order to meet the requirements of my position. So tough to say "I'm going to work 30 minutes less per day in order to exercise 30 minutes or 30 minutes more." That time likely has to come from somewhere else (family time, sleep, or FBG posting!).MAC_32 said:I found your 30 minutes per day.
Yeah, that should do the trick. Problem is, I begrudgingly joined Strava back during the FBG 1M/5K/10K challenge this summer and I haven't really felt a sense of accountability to it. But that may just be because I don't really use it. But maybe I should? I'll give this a shot.SteelCurtain said:Here is the thing. Strava helps keep me accountable.
You want accountability? Here's what you do. You join Strava....tell everyone here....we will all follow you.....then each week, post your upcoming week running plan.
WE will keep you accountable. If you ask us, we will help you on this journey.
I'm obsessed over my stupid graph and I love seeing the 50 miles per week for the last 4 weeks. Its stupid, but its getting my fat a$$ out there when I just want to stay in bed some days.
Hmmm...I've never been one to sign up for 5K's or 10K's, but that may be a great strategy. Here's why. Sure, I could get to race day for a 5K or 10K with poor training and still finish the race, but damn it if that FBG 5K I ran this summer in less than ideal shape didn't burn my lungs for weeks after. That was probably the worst "race" experience I've had, outside of rhabdo last year.ChiefD said:Man, you just described me as well.
One thing I have learned is I'm just not wired like a lot of the folks here. I don't love running - as a matter of fact I really hate it. I love the benefits of running though. But right now I'm on the precipice of falling down into a deep, dark hole.
The ONE THING that I KNOW can keep me falling over that edge is running. The downside is I need a race as a carrot - because I LOVE race day. I need those workouts sitting on my calendar every day pointing toward a goal.
Someone told me years ago as a piece of advice - sign up for more 5k's and 10k's to provide that race day energy boost that you need between major races. So that is something I will explore in 2021 if they are available.
But I'm with you - I'm mentally tired of being in this rut the last few months, and I need to do something about it.
Yep, definitely going to sprinkle in more/shorter races throughout the year when things get back to normal. I like that idea, as that will definitely commit me more. Maybe that helps establish the consistency I need and will end up like you, where you then establish the training as routine in your life and then no longer need the race carrots.Dr_Zaius said:It may seem like a bit of a crutch (and easier said than done during covid times), but if having a race coming up gets you out in the months prior, could you start by staggering races (not necessarily 100 milers) throughout the year? That's what made me sign up for a spring half marathon a few years back - I wanted to force myself to run regularly through the winter. Now that I've gotten used to training in the bad weather, I don't seem to need the carrot in front of me anymore, but I'm not sure I would have gotten to that point if I hadn't had the fear of failing a race to ingrain the habit.
Appreciate that bushdocda. Yep, definitely need to lock in the consistency of daily exercise/fitness and then build from there.Confident you will get there. I think smaller bites like you mention are the key. I would not be able to execute at the extremes of ultra racing from both the distance and the toll and recovery needs. I need smaller bites to keep going and for the mental health lift I get from accountability and routine.