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Why Do Many Reasonable People Doubt Science? (1 Viewer)

CowboysFromHell

Footballguy
National Geographic article

Explains on-going debates by reasonable people over things that scientists generally agree on, like evolution, climate change, vaccines, GMOs, etc.

The scientific method leads us to truths that are less than self-evident, often mind-blowing, and sometimes hard to swallow.
We have trouble digesting randomness; our brains crave pattern and meaning.
Even for scientists, the scientific method is a hard discipline. Like the rest of us, they're vulnerable to what they call confirmation bias - the tendency to look for and see only evidence that confirms what they already believe. But unlike the rest of us, they submit their ideas to formal peer review before publishing them. Once their results are published, if theyre important enough, other scientists will try to reproduce themand, being congenitally skeptical and competitive, will be very happy to announce that they dont hold up.
Americans fall into two basic camps, Kahan says. Those with a more egalitarian and communitarian mind-set are generally suspicious of industry and apt to think its up to something dangerous that calls for government regulation; theyre likely to see the risks of climate change. In contrast, people with a hierarchical and individualistic mind-set respect leaders of industry and dont like government interfering in their affairs; theyre apt to reject warnings about climate change, because they know what accepting them could lead tosome kind of tax or regulation to limit emissions.

In the U.S., climate change somehow has become a litmus test that identifies you as belonging to one or the other of these two antagonistic tribes. When we argue about it, Kahan says, were actually arguing about who we are, what our crowd is. Were thinking, People like us believe this. People like that do not believe this. For a hierarchical individualist, Kahan says, its not irrational to reject established climate science: Accepting it wouldnt change the world, but it might get him thrown out of his tribe.
 
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I think we have divergent opinions of the word "reasonable"

 
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Because people get old and scared and start to buy into whatever means they won't be alone.

 
When you attempt to group people into two neat little packages, you are always wrong. There are so many nuances and there are extremes on both sides who are wrong. Just because there is good science on one side, does not mean that it is not being exaggerated by some and is being used to drive bad policy which does not solve the problem at hand. What is really solved by. collecting more taxes and driving carbon producing industry to developing nations? the proposed solutions are power grabs and not solutions.

 
When you attempt to group people into two neat little packages, you are always wrong. There are so many nuances and there are extremes on both sides who are wrong. Just because there is good science on one side, does not mean that it is not being exaggerated by some and is being used to drive bad policy which does not solve the problem at hand. What is really solved by. collecting more taxes and driving carbon producing industry to developing nations? the proposed solutions are power grabs and not solutions.
I'm not sure I agree with the author on these groupings, either. He focuses a lot on climate change in the latter part of the article. However, I think the broader point still has some validity. Do people tend to accept ideas that fit with their preconceived beliefs, and reject those that are different? I think yes. How else do we explain, to take another example, the majority of what I hope are "reasonable" people who are potentially running for President in 2016 rejecting a basic scientific theory?

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.

 
When you attempt to group people into two neat little packages, you are always wrong. There are so many nuances and there are extremes on both sides who are wrong. Just because there is good science on one side, does not mean that it is not being exaggerated by some and is being used to drive bad policy which does not solve the problem at hand. What is really solved by. collecting more taxes and driving carbon producing industry to developing nations? the proposed solutions are power grabs and not solutions.
I'm not sure I agree with the author on these groupings, either. He focuses a lot on climate change in the latter part of the article. However, I think the broader point still has some validity. Do people tend to accept ideas that fit with their preconceived beliefs, and reject those that are different? I think yes. How else do we explain, to take another example, the majority of what I hope are "reasonable" people who are potentially running for President in 2016 rejecting a basic scientific theory?
Of course everyone uses their beliefs and experience to shape how they see things. Walker is trying to avoid answering a question he knows some in his base would take issue with, that is how politicians work. Just like Obama when asked about gay marriage when first running for president. Interesting thing about the climate debate on those 'rejecting' science, they actually have a better understanding of scientific facts than the believers.

ETA: Another study even showed this:

"As respondents’ science literacy scores increased, their concern with climate change decreased," the paper, which was funded by the National Science Foundation, notes.

 
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I thought that was part of the process (to doubt/question/debunk/etc) :oldunsure: even within the scientific community. I go to these "parties" with my wife on occasion and they are always talking about how more :moneybag: is spent on debunking current assertions than anything else. I have always taken them at their word. No idea if it's true or not.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
That's true, and that's a good reason for being skeptical about scientific "facts." 100% of actual scientists share that skepticism, which is why scientific ideas are constantly subject to questioning and revision.

That doesn't mean that aunt Katie from Facebook is warranted in thinking that vaccines cause autism because of some anecdote.

 
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When you attempt to group people into two neat little packages, you are always wrong. There are so many nuances and there are extremes on both sides who are wrong. Just because there is good science on one side, does not mean that it is not being exaggerated by some and is being used to drive bad policy which does not solve the problem at hand. What is really solved by. collecting more taxes and driving carbon producing industry to developing nations? the proposed solutions are power grabs and not solutions.
I'm not sure I agree with the author on these groupings, either. He focuses a lot on climate change in the latter part of the article. However, I think the broader point still has some validity. Do people tend to accept ideas that fit with their preconceived beliefs, and reject those that are different? I think yes. How else do we explain, to take another example, the majority of what I hope are "reasonable" people who are potentially running for President in 2016 rejecting a basic scientific theory?
Of course everyone uses their beliefs and experience to shape how they see things. Walker is trying to avoid answering a question he knows some in his base would take issue with, that is how politicians work. Just like Obama when asked about gay marriage when first running for president. Interesting thing about the climate debate on those 'rejecting' science, they actually have a better understanding of scientific facts than the believers.
Isn't that the article quoted by the author in my original OP?

On the Republican evolution deniers, I agree the candidates probably aren't being honest about their own beliefs, but are more likely just pandering to their party's base. But that doesn't explain why so many in their base, most of which are presumably reasonable people, actually do doubt the science of evolution (which I'll say is a bit more robust and irrefutable than the current understanding of climate change).

 
When you attempt to group people into two neat little packages, you are always wrong. There are so many nuances and there are extremes on both sides who are wrong. Just because there is good science on one side, does not mean that it is not being exaggerated by some and is being used to drive bad policy which does not solve the problem at hand. What is really solved by. collecting more taxes and driving carbon producing industry to developing nations? the proposed solutions are power grabs and not solutions.
I'm not sure I agree with the author on these groupings, either. He focuses a lot on climate change in the latter part of the article. However, I think the broader point still has some validity. Do people tend to accept ideas that fit with their preconceived beliefs, and reject those that are different? I think yes. How else do we explain, to take another example, the majority of what I hope are "reasonable" people who are potentially running for President in 2016 rejecting a basic scientific theory?
Politicized science is a major reason why you'll find otherwise reasonable people "rejecting" science. This linked article is a great example of that.

I'd be willing to bet that if you could have a 1 to 1 chat with Walker ( or most of the R candidates ) off the record with no possibility of the discussion being used for political fodder, he wouldn't deny evolution. The fact that there is a significant voting block that favors belief over science that the Republican's need to get through a primary makes the politicians answer stupid questions designed to make the politician look bad to the general public ( if he answers to pander to the religious ) or look bad to the voting block ( if he answers truthfully ).

I do think there are some ® candidates that truly believe creationism, but I wouldn't consider them to be reasonable. Looking at the list in the article, everyone with a red X in the accepts evolution column would have absolutely no chance to win a presidential election.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
I think the term science in that respect refers more to politics. Real science is always evolving. It will continue to accept new evidence and new possibilities. Nothing is proven 100%. We can merely come to a consensus based on the evidence of the time.

Those using climate change to change political policies for example ignore the science part and grab the few lines they want to hear to make sweeping changes.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The first two that come to mind from way back in the day were the universe revolving around the earth sun and the earth being flat.

 
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Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The first two that come to mind from way back in the day were the universe revolving around the earth and the earth being flat.
Concept of a static universe, spontaneous generation, expanding earth etc etc.

 
When you attempt to group people into two neat little packages, you are always wrong. There are so many nuances and there are extremes on both sides who are wrong. Just because there is good science on one side, does not mean that it is not being exaggerated by some and is being used to drive bad policy which does not solve the problem at hand. What is really solved by. collecting more taxes and driving carbon producing industry to developing nations? the proposed solutions are power grabs and not solutions.
I'm not sure I agree with the author on these groupings, either. He focuses a lot on climate change in the latter part of the article. However, I think the broader point still has some validity. Do people tend to accept ideas that fit with their preconceived beliefs, and reject those that are different? I think yes. How else do we explain, to take another example, the majority of what I hope are "reasonable" people who are potentially running for President in 2016 rejecting a basic scientific theory?
Of course everyone uses their beliefs and experience to shape how they see things. Walker is trying to avoid answering a question he knows some in his base would take issue with, that is how politicians work. Just like Obama when asked about gay marriage when first running for president. Interesting thing about the climate debate on those 'rejecting' science, they actually have a better understanding of scientific facts than the believers.
Isn't that the article quoted by the author in my original OP?

On the Republican evolution deniers, I agree the candidates probably aren't being honest about their own beliefs, but are more likely just pandering to their party's base. But that doesn't explain why so many in their base, most of which are presumably reasonable people, actually do doubt the science of evolution (which I'll say is a bit more robust and irrefutable than the current understanding of climate change).
I think most people prefer not to think about it. When questions are asked about evolution in a way which does not seem to conflict with religion, there is a much higher acceptance of the facts. When it is worded in a way which might conflict with their belief that God created humans in their current form, then the support for evolution theory decreases. It is really just a much easier question to ignore the differences than work to try to reconcile a possible middle ground where science and religion can be in harmony. Most people are busy and are just happy thinking about their day to day life and not worry about such nuances.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The first two that come to mind from way back in the day were the universe revolving around the earth and the earth being flat.
The one about fossils has been pretty much debunked as well - thanks to this video.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The Sun revolves around the Earth was once the general opinion of the mass "scientists" despite the vocal opposition providing evidence to the contrary. Earth is flat was also a general consensus in the "civilized world" until someone challenged the notion. Then there was the sun is the center of the universe.

Those were just larger concepts though. Medicine, animal behavior, human biology all once had general consensus opinion based on the evidence of the time. The medicine as recent as 40 years ago looks like the middle ages compared to today. Yet many of the doctors and scientists of the time would have sworn by their current knowledge.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
Science is always wrong in that there will always be so many unknowns. First it is the earth is the center of the universe. Then it is the sun is the center of the universe and we circle around the sun. Then it is discovered there are many other solar systems and other even other galaxies. Then it is our orbit is not a circle, but more elliptic. Science will never be right, it will just keep inching closer to being right as our understanding of things improve.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The first two that come to mind from way back in the day were the universe revolving around the earth and the earth being flat.
The one about fossils has been pretty much debunked as well - thanks to this video.
:lmao:

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Science is not the conclusion, but rather the process to reach a conclusion. The ability to think critically is what separates reasonable people from the average facebook user.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Science is not the conclusion, but rather the process to reach a conclusion. The ability to think critically is what separates reasonable people from the average facebook user.
and that is why there will always be doubt.

 
Don't get me started on the Brontosaurus and pterodactyl. For years I was fed lies. Pluto anyone? Everything I once believed is no more.

 
Regarless of people's feelings, I think its pretty obvious in less than a page why "Many Reasonable People Doubt Science".

/thread

 
I will say that I think that it's weird that conservatives tend to get branded as a anti-science more than liberals. It's like evolution and global warming are the litmus tests for science as a whole.

But on the Left, there are plenty of major issues where a large number of lefties are in conflict with science. Stuff like GMO food, vaccines, nuclear energy, the science around the Keystone pipeline, holistic medicine, etc. all have a much larger and more immediate impact than whether someone is wrong about evolution or not. If someone is wrong about evolution, it really changes nothing. But politicians being wrong about that other stuff has serious societal costs.

 
I will say that I think that it's weird that conservatives tend to get branded as a anti-science more than liberals. It's like evolution and global warming are the litmus tests for science as a whole.

But on the Left, there are plenty of major issues where a large number of lefties are in conflict with science. Stuff like GMO food, vaccines, nuclear energy, the science around the Keystone pipeline, holistic medicine, etc. all have a much larger and more immediate impact than whether someone is wrong about evolution or not. If someone is wrong about evolution, it really changes nothing. But politicians being wrong about that other stuff has serious societal costs.
You make a good point. The vaccine issue appears to be fairly bipartisan, but yes, it's not like the left doesn't have its own share of science deniers.

 
I'd like to put out a bumper sticker "I DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE. it just is. "

Most of why we are irrational when we are has to do with a dreadful need to matter. A mechanical world has no particular need for us, you, me at this particular time and never essentially will unless we personally corral a chaos into order or explode a pattern into chaos. Our spiritual confabulations require our presence, now and always, as personal instruments of the creating and most powerful force of the universe. For which will one spend the poor capital of one's common sense? nufced

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The Sun revolves around the Earth was once the general opinion of the mass "scientists" despite the vocal opposition providing evidence to the contrary. Earth is flat was also a general consensus in the "civilized world" until someone challenged the notion. Then there was the sun is the center of the universe.

Those were just larger concepts though. Medicine, animal behavior, human biology all once had general consensus opinion based on the evidence of the time. The medicine as recent as 40 years ago looks like the middle ages compared to today. Yet many of the doctors and scientists of the time would have sworn by their current knowledge.
How much of these previous misconceptions (Sun around the Earth, flat Earth, circle vs elliptical orbit, etc.) were based on evidence that was misinterpreted vs. simply incorrect assumptions?

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The Sun revolves around the Earth was once the general opinion of the mass "scientists" despite the vocal opposition providing evidence to the contrary. Earth is flat was also a general consensus in the "civilized world" until someone challenged the notion. Then there was the sun is the center of the universe.

Those were just larger concepts though. Medicine, animal behavior, human biology all once had general consensus opinion based on the evidence of the time. The medicine as recent as 40 years ago looks like the middle ages compared to today. Yet many of the doctors and scientists of the time would have sworn by their current knowledge.
How much of these previous misconceptions (Sun around the Earth, flat Earth, circle vs elliptical orbit, etc.) were based on evidence that was misinterpreted vs. simply incorrect assumptions?
I am not sure what distinction you are trying to make. Assumptions are based on the available evidence and current interpretations of them. I don't see those as two separate things.

 
Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The Sun revolves around the Earth was once the general opinion of the mass "scientists" despite the vocal opposition providing evidence to the contrary. Earth is flat was also a general consensus in the "civilized world" until someone challenged the notion. Then there was the sun is the center of the universe.

Those were just larger concepts though. Medicine, animal behavior, human biology all once had general consensus opinion based on the evidence of the time. The medicine as recent as 40 years ago looks like the middle ages compared to today. Yet many of the doctors and scientists of the time would have sworn by their current knowledge.
How much of these previous misconceptions (Sun around the Earth, flat Earth, circle vs elliptical orbit, etc.) were based on evidence that was misinterpreted vs. simply incorrect assumptions?
This is a question based on the benefit of hindsight....not sure it's very fruitful given the initial question posed. At the time, based on what they knew, that was their assumption.

 
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Speaking generally and not about something specific, the facts are, science has been wrong many, many times before. Things we were assured are correct and backed up by scientific "fact" simply were not.
Let's discuss some examples where science was wrong. Got any in mind?
The Sun revolves around the Earth was once the general opinion of the mass "scientists" despite the vocal opposition providing evidence to the contrary. Earth is flat was also a general consensus in the "civilized world" until someone challenged the notion. Then there was the sun is the center of the universe.

Those were just larger concepts though. Medicine, animal behavior, human biology all once had general consensus opinion based on the evidence of the time. The medicine as recent as 40 years ago looks like the middle ages compared to today. Yet many of the doctors and scientists of the time would have sworn by their current knowledge.
How much of these previous misconceptions (Sun around the Earth, flat Earth, circle vs elliptical orbit, etc.) were based on evidence that was misinterpreted vs. simply incorrect assumptions?
Ptolemy, whose chart of the sky was the abiding version for 1500 years, actually practiced some very rigorous science - imposing ellipses upon orbits and such to reinforce earth as center of the universe - which advanced the cause of both astronomy and mathematics greatly. What he didn't do was create the intellectual space to explore heliocentric theory, which is the usual first fault of bad science.

 
The virtual certainty that it's almost always at least partially wrong.

Ironically, that's what I love about it :thumbup:

 
Because science has disproved itself time and time again over the years. In recent decades, the government has been funding science seeking particular results. How can you believe scientific results designed to please politicians?

 

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