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Frank Gore - still in the NFL at 65. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Soulfly3
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Hmmm. The article seemingly discusses Gore as a lock HOFer. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but how many individual HOF seasons has he had? He had one season in the Top 5 in rushing, zero seasons in the Top 5 in rushing TD, and one season in the Top 5 in yards from scrimmage.
I like Gore as much as the next guy and have rostered him on many a fantasy team, but was he ever really a WOW factor RB with great numbers? His career totals will show he was consistently good for his whole career.
I guess he gets in as a lifetime achievement kind of a thing, but maybe I am way off base thinking he was a good to very good player for a really long time. I would never would have stopped to think that in another 600 yards he'll rank in the all time Top 5 in rushing yards. He's about to pass Eric Dickerson . . . but Gore has taken more than two full seasons worth of games to do it. I suppose slow and steady wins the race in this case.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
He's definitely a compiler, but that might actually be a significant accomplishment in the modern NFL, with fewer RBs receiving bellcow workloads, fewer RBs being given 2nd and especially 3rd contracts, fewer RBs remaining healthy enough and effective enough to convince a team to start them into their 30's. The game is changing enough at the RB position that it might be time to decide what's more impressive nowadays--the bright flash in the pan impact player who explodes and then fades, or the steady eddie workhorse who compiles an unlikely 80's-esque career in the modern era. It's a different kind of feat, but it's impressive in its own right.
The biggest shame is the lack of usage in the receiving game through large chunks of Gore's career when he has excelled there when given opportunities. Teams have left a lot of easy and efficient yardage on the field by not just throwing him the ball more throughout his career.
The biggest shame is the lack of usage in the receiving game through large chunks of Gore's career when he has excelled there when given opportunities. Teams have left a lot of easy and efficient yardage on the field by not just throwing him the ball more throughout his career.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Curtis Martin could be described as a compiler as well then I suppose or even Emmtt Smith.
Martin and Smith did have more top 5 finishes in fantasy than Gore did, but they also got a lot more carries. Frank Gore only has one season over 300 rushing attempts in his career and I think he has been underutilized as a receiver as well. Curtis Martin has 8 seasons over 300 carries and Emmitt 7 seasons.
Martin and Smith did have more top 5 finishes in fantasy than Gore did, but they also got a lot more carries. Frank Gore only has one season over 300 rushing attempts in his career and I think he has been underutilized as a receiver as well. Curtis Martin has 8 seasons over 300 carries and Emmitt 7 seasons.
You can't go by years, you go by carries. 13 years averaging 4.4 ypc. That's a HOF stat. His #s are easily as good as Dickerson. Same ypc. Plus he was a better receiver. Averaged more ypc as a receiver.
CalBear
Footballguy
You can't make the Hall of Fame based on what you might have done, only on what you did do. Gore didn't have a Hall of Fame career.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree that it still matter what the player has done, not what they could of done.
I am not sure if Gore has had a HOF career or not, it isn't over yet.
The point is that coaching philosophy and scheme are factors in how much volume a player gets over their career, not just their talent.
CalBear
Footballguy
Gore was talented. He might have had a HOF career in a different context. But, he didn't. (And it's exceedingly unlikely at this point that he can do anything to change that).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I agree with your overall opinion on Gore, but sadly I think he will be able to do more to improve his HOF stock. Gore currently ranks 8th all time in career rushing yards. He's 1.037 yards away from climbing to 4th. IMO, he has a decent shot of getting those yards (even if he doesn't look that great in getting them). He will also creep up the all time YFS rankings, where he would climb to 7th this year if he gets the rushing yards I just referenced.
Looking at the players in that rarefied air, Gore will get a lot of HOF consideration on his career rankings . . . even if his annual output most years was good but not elite. I have always felt that the below average production at the end of a player's career shouldn't serve to help his HOF credentials, but this may play out that way.
The only time Gore ranked Top 5 in rushing was 11 years ago. The last of his 3 seasons with 1,500 yfs scrimmage was 2009. He never was a First Team All Pro and was a Second Team All Pro once. But career stats matter, and people will look at his rankings and vote for him.
Tau837
Footballguy
I was thinking the same thing. Doesn't deserve it IMO but may get it due to compiling.
A lot of people think Bettis and Martin made it on compiling, but both of them have more compelling resumes than Gore.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Looking at Gores career he missed games in the years that are generally when a RB is in their prime. It was only one or two games missed except for 2010 where he only played 11 games at age 27. He plays in 16 games from age 28 on.
There was a coaching change from Singletary to Harbaugh in 2011 and this is where you see Gores opportunity as a receiver get reduced compared to what he was doing prior to that. It is worth mentioning that SF was a very bad team during Gores early years, which also likely had some limiting effect on his productivity. The change in not using him as a receiver is something that doesn't make much sense to me, but that is what happened.
Durability and toughness is an ability that Emmitt Smith and Curtis Martin had, that perhaps Gore didn't have as much of, and thus the lower number of opportunities (and productivity) by comparison. I think part of this was just the team not being as good as Dallas in the 90s or Parcells with Martin.though.
Gore has been used more as a receiver with the Colts than he was with Harbaugh as his HC. Not quite as good yards per reception numbers as earlier in his career (at age 32 and 33 respectively) but effective enough that I see the Harbaugh years as some wasted opportunity.
There was a coaching change from Singletary to Harbaugh in 2011 and this is where you see Gores opportunity as a receiver get reduced compared to what he was doing prior to that. It is worth mentioning that SF was a very bad team during Gores early years, which also likely had some limiting effect on his productivity. The change in not using him as a receiver is something that doesn't make much sense to me, but that is what happened.
Durability and toughness is an ability that Emmitt Smith and Curtis Martin had, that perhaps Gore didn't have as much of, and thus the lower number of opportunities (and productivity) by comparison. I think part of this was just the team not being as good as Dallas in the 90s or Parcells with Martin.though.
Gore has been used more as a receiver with the Colts than he was with Harbaugh as his HC. Not quite as good yards per reception numbers as earlier in his career (at age 32 and 33 respectively) but effective enough that I see the Harbaugh years as some wasted opportunity.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
if Gore is #5 all time rushing and not hall of fame stuff because of what he's done
then anyone below #5 isn't worthy of HOF either then because they didn't do as much as Gore
right ?
then anyone below #5 isn't worthy of HOF either then because they didn't do as much as Gore
right ?
CalBear
Footballguy
Wrong.
Kurt Warner is worthy of the Hall of Fame. Vinny Testaverde is not, even though he threw for 14,000 more yards than Warner. Aaron Rodgers is more worthy of the Hall of Fame than Matt Ryan, despite Ryan having thrown for more career yardage.
Adrian Peterson is only 300 yards ahead of Steven Jackson, but is approximately 100 million times more worthy of the Hall of Fame.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
CalBear - why ? If numbers don't mean anything .... why keep track? Probably THE most important thing is stats and numbers.
Is Percy Harvin HOF ? He was electric, stunning .... sure, he didn't play much but when he did man was he great! Don't focus on the numbers right?
Is Percy Harvin HOF ? He was electric, stunning .... sure, he didn't play much but when he did man was he great! Don't focus on the numbers right?
CalBear
Footballguy
Numbers matter, relative to peers. Frank Gore's numbers tell the story of someone who was never elite at his position, who happened to play a long time. Just like Vinnie Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe. He had one top-5 finish in rushing yardage, and none in TDs (in fact, only scored 10 TDs once in his career). That's why he has zero All-Pros. Compiling good-but-not-great stats isn't enough to get in the Hall of Fame.
strong
Footballguy
this has turned out to be an excellent contract for the colts.
when i watch him, i'm shocked i'm watching a 34 year old RB.
he doesn't look like a world beater, but he's still pretty shifty and his vision is just so excellent. he turns so many negative plays into minor successes by making the right cut behind the line.
turbin was cutting into his red zone touches and i think his value had been neutered a bit without as many TD opportunities, but with turbin out for the year now i can see gore working his way into safe RB2 territory yet again.
i'm really curious what people think his dyno value is.
when i watch him, i'm shocked i'm watching a 34 year old RB.
he doesn't look like a world beater, but he's still pretty shifty and his vision is just so excellent. he turns so many negative plays into minor successes by making the right cut behind the line.
turbin was cutting into his red zone touches and i think his value had been neutered a bit without as many TD opportunities, but with turbin out for the year now i can see gore working his way into safe RB2 territory yet again.
i'm really curious what people think his dyno value is.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I know that everyone loves to look and dream about young backup RBs, so I understand the desire for guys to try to grab a winning lottery ticket with a guy like Mack, but Gore has done fine with the touches he's received. Game situations and defenses stacking the box along with his volume has been a little low and scoring opportunities slim thanks to the poor offense, but Gore has been really solid.
I know Mack's ypa looks much better, but they've been used in different situations and it's not even close to an apples to apples comparison.
There's a reason that FootballOutsiders' advanced stats rate Gore higher than Mack.
I know Mack's ypa looks much better, but they've been used in different situations and it's not even close to an apples to apples comparison.
There's a reason that FootballOutsiders' advanced stats rate Gore higher than Mack.
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A lot of this situation reminds me of Marion Barber/Felix Jones back when Felix was first breaking in and people clamored for him to get more work. Reality is Felix was just not up to being an every down RB, he might have deserved more work early in his career in tandem with Barber but he was just not suited to be an everydown back, despite having the size for it just not something he could do.
Mack is not suited to be an everydown back either and until he solves his boom/bust running style won't be but he also should never be getting 2 carries in a game. He should be a heavily utilized consistent part of the offense, I think his role should be like Tevin Colemans last year but with a little more usage because Gore is not Freeman at this stage and as a team they are hurting for weapons more, they need a playmaker more than ATL needed Tevin last year to make plays.
As for Gore. Meh. Going back to Barber/Felix I recall something Michael Irvin said at the time and that was that while Barber is consistently churning out positive yardage the defense did not fear him. He specifically said the defense was not afraid to over commit to the pass rush, not concerned with worrying about Barber because if he ever got past the initial first or second level they could just catch him for a minimal game. This is Gore now, he scares no one and that's a problem.
Otis
Footballguy
I think he's now the #5 all time rusher, and just a few hundred hards from overtaking Curtis Martin at #4, to then be behind only Emmit, Payton, Sanders. Crazy.
No insight but seems like the kind of guy who will keep playing until they drag him off the field if he can. Not sure if Indy will want him back though. Maybe at the right contract. He's pretty damn old.
Faust
MVP
Adam Gase: Frank Gore looks like he did 10 years ago
@Soulfly3 - time for a thread title update my friend
@Soulfly3 - time for a thread title update my friend
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
The main difference is that Gore has backed up looking good in the offeseason with incredibly consistent, value-add performance.
The other guys? Not so much.
CalBear
Footballguy
With his 3.7 ypc and 3 TDs on 261 carries in 2017? That's Mendoza Line territory. He's done from a fantasy perspective, even if he were the starter, which he isn't. He'll get his 76 yards. He might even get 400 or so in change of pace duty if he stays healthy.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
AWESOME.
Every year that goes by, I grow more appreciative and in love with Gore and his longevity and continued effectiveness and relevancy.
42nd overall by FPs in my league, but #1 in my heart.
Hall of famer. 2 ACLs before he plays a snap in the NFL and plays longer than most RBs.
