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Are you avoiding gluten? Does it bother you?


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If you said yes to either and have never been diagnosed with celiac disease (a very real and awful malady), you are likely (1) a goofball hypocondriac, (2) an attention loving drama queen, or (3) just plain full of crap. I can't rule out an "all of the above" option.

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No, but I found that a diabetic diet had me the healthiest and fittest that I'd been since my early 20's. So, if a reduction in carbs, starches, wheat, etc., is what it took, I wouldn't consider myself a drama queen at all.

Also, contrarian narratives to contrarianism are often as bull#### as the original faddishness itself.

Best to operate empirically and dialectically.

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This is a classic example of 'You're not actually doing what you think you're doing.' Giving up gluten will cause you to select different foods. The selecting of different foods leads to any real improvement (unless as the article points out your are legit celiac).

Here's what usually happens - avoid gluten (like breads) eat less calories feel more energized because you aren't suffering from spikes in blood sugar, feel less gassy, therefore gluten is bad! When in reality you've actually avoided nutrient poor wheat based carbs.

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Best to operate empirically

Yeah. That's why it is relevant that the guy who published a study saying there was such a thing as non-celiac gluten intolerance reversed himself after additional research.

I have no dog in this fight, but linking to this article is not a reversal in any way, shape, nor form. Sorry, dude.

Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist

Edited by rockaction
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The stentorian tones of the "I ####### love science" crowd are what really annoys me.

You haven't figured it out. It's a method. Publish the data, then shut up. Chances are you haven't figured out the mystery of the human body nor the cosmos.

I love that a particular person liked your post. That's how I know it's wrong.

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Best to operate empirically

Yeah. That's why it is relevant that the guy who published a study saying there was such a thing as non-celiac gluten intolerance reversed himself after additional research.

I have no dog in this fight, but linking to this article is not a reversal in any way, shape, nor form. Sorry, dude. And that's my last post on the subject, because I don't care enough.

Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist

Saying something probably exists and then following up with saying it may not exist (and that there is no real evidence it does) may not be a 180 degree reversal, but it is a pretty distinct difference in message.

I'd even be willing to concede that it might exist in some small portion of the population, but the vast majority of people who claim it are full of baloney. Just like the vast majority of people who claim to be sensitive to MSG, another basically harmless substance that has been demonized based on shoddy science and popular self-delusion.

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Best to operate empirically

Yeah. That's why it is relevant that the guy who published a study saying there was such a thing as non-celiac gluten intolerance reversed himself after additional research.

I have no dog in this fight, but linking to this article is not a reversal in any way, shape, nor form. Sorry, dude. And that's my last post on the subject, because I don't care enough.

Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist

Saying something probably exists and then following up with saying it may not exist (and that there is no real evidence it does) may not be a 180 degree reversal, but it is a pretty distinct difference in message.

I'd even be willing to concede that it might exist in some small portion of the population, but the vast majority of people who claim it are full of baloney. Just like the vast majority of people who claim to be sensitive to MSG, another basically harmless substance that has been demonized based on shoddy science and popular self-delusion.

I agree. I got tested for celiac. I also agree with Mr. Roboto's post. It's like my old boss used to tell me -- "if you take away an entire food aisle, of course you'll lose weight."

Here's my gig, and I'll give up the ghost. Had a dietician. She used to preach about science, science, science, until one day she finally told me, "you know our parents used to know how to eat." :loco:

Wisdom and dialectics can sometimes trump one study, is what I'm saying. And empiricism isn't just scientific method, it's personal experience, so I don't want to get hung up on semantics. Basically, I just don't trust anything but inherited wisdom, is all I'm saying. And if inherited wisdom starts to come out against gluten, then maybe there's a humility in examining that.

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I think Maurile and Scooby have talked ad naseum in other threads about this so they are probably the best (read smartest) people to answer. I don't do gluten free but when I'm looking to lose weight I always do a paleo/low carb and it works for me and is easy for me to follow.

I know I don't have celiac but I can only speak to how it has helped me to greatly reduce gluten intake.

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Best to operate empirically

Yeah. That's why it is relevant that the guy who published a study saying there was such a thing as non-celiac gluten intolerance reversed himself after additional research.

I have no dog in this fight, but linking to this article is not a reversal in any way, shape, nor form. Sorry, dude. And that's my last post on the subject, because I don't care enough.

Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist

Saying something probably exists and then following up with saying it may not exist (and that there is no real evidence it does) may not be a 180 degree reversal, but it is a pretty distinct difference in message.

I'd even be willing to concede that it might exist in some small portion of the population, but the vast majority of people who claim it are full of baloney. Just like the vast majority of people who claim to be sensitive to MSG, another basically harmless substance that has been demonized based on shoddy science and popular self-delusion.

I agree. I got tested for celiac. I also agree with Mr. Roboto's post. It's like my old boss used to tell me -- "if you take away an entire food aisle, of course you'll lose weight."

Here's my gig, and I'll give up the ghost. Had a dietician. She used to preach about science, science, science, until one day she finally told me, "you know our parents used to know how to eat." :loco:

Wisdom and dialectics can sometimes trump one study, is what I'm saying. And empiricism isn't just scientific method, it's personal experience, so I don't want to get hung up on semantics. Basically, I just don't trust anything but inherited wisdom, is all I'm saying. And if inherited wisdom starts to come out against gluten, then maybe there's a humility in examining that.

:lmao:

Inherited wisdom gets some things right, but also includes large helpings of superstition and old wives tails.

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I know I don't have celiac but I can only speak to how it has helped me to greatly reduce gluten intake.

There is a good chance the above is false attribution. What has probably helped you is reducing caloric intake by eating fewer refined carbohydrates.

In other words, if you ate the same quantitiy of breads, pasta and sweets made with gluten free ingredients, I bet you wouldn't have seen much, if any, difference.

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I avoid all grains and most carbohydrates, so I have looked at some gluten free options when they involve low-carb stuff. but I don't specifically avoid gluten. It is so overhyped. Things are advertised as gluten free that anyone in their right mind would never think had gluten in it. My wife has bought into the gluten free. We ate at a good hamburger joint the other day that had a gluten free bun available. You'd have thought she was saving the world when she ordered it.

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Best to operate empirically

Yeah. That's why it is relevant that the guy who published a study saying there was such a thing as non-celiac gluten intolerance reversed himself after additional research.

I have no dog in this fight, but linking to this article is not a reversal in any way, shape, nor form. Sorry, dude. And that's my last post on the subject, because I don't care enough.

Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist

Saying something probably exists and then following up with saying it may not exist (and that there is no real evidence it does) may not be a 180 degree reversal, but it is a pretty distinct difference in message.

I'd even be willing to concede that it might exist in some small portion of the population, but the vast majority of people who claim it are full of baloney. Just like the vast majority of people who claim to be sensitive to MSG, another basically harmless substance that has been demonized based on shoddy science and popular self-delusion.

I agree. I got tested for celiac. I also agree with Mr. Roboto's post. It's like my old boss used to tell me -- "if you take away an entire food aisle, of course you'll lose weight."

Here's my gig, and I'll give up the ghost. Had a dietician. She used to preach about science, science, science, until one day she finally told me, "you know our parents used to know how to eat." :loco:

Wisdom and dialectics can sometimes trump one study, is what I'm saying. And empiricism isn't just scientific method, it's personal experience, so I don't want to get hung up on semantics. Basically, I just don't trust anything but inherited wisdom, is all I'm saying. And if inherited wisdom starts to come out against gluten, then maybe there's a humility in examining that.

:lmao:

Inherited wisdom gets some things right, but also includes large helpings of superstition and old wives tails.

Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

Inherited wisdom has been better than the scientifically and government-approved food pyramid, that's for sure. Choline and egg cholesterol, exhibit A. What did real clear science say about eggs for fifty years?

Edited by rockaction
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Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

:homer:

Yes, "inherited wisdom" and not science has been the key to all the advancements of the last 200 years, not to mention the previous 2,000. Without it, we'd be living in mud huts like our ancestors did for thousands of years.

Also, you promised your "last" post on the topic for posts ago. Time to stand and deliver, pendejo.

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Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

:homer:

Yes, "inherited wisdom" and not science has been the key to all the advancements of the last 200 years, not to mention the previous 2,000. Without it, we'd be living in mud huts like our ancestors did for thousands of years.

Also, you promised your "last" post on the topic for posts ago. Time to stand and deliver, pendejo.

I edited, brohan. Love your response about the eggs. Whoops.

Why didn't you just entitle this "I ####### LOVE SCIENCE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY TOLD ME!"

1910: Phrenology and certitude.

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Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

:homer:

Yes, "inherited wisdom" and not science has been the key to all the advancements of the last 200 years, not to mention the previous 2,000. Without it, we'd be living in mud huts like our ancestors did for thousands of years.

Also, you promised your "last" post on the topic for posts ago. Time to stand and deliver, pendejo.

I edited, brohan. Love your response about the eggs. Whoops.

Why didn't you just entitle this "I ####### LOVE SCIENCE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY TOLD ME!"

1910: Phrenology and certitude.

Once again: :lmao:

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Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

:homer:

Yes, "inherited wisdom" and not science has been the key to all the advancements of the last 200 years, not to mention the previous 2,000. Without it, we'd be living in mud huts like our ancestors did for thousands of years.

Also, you promised your "last" post on the topic for posts ago. Time to stand and deliver, pendejo.

I edited, brohan. Love your response about the eggs. Whoops.

Why didn't you just entitle this "I ####### LOVE SCIENCE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY TOLD ME!"

1910: Phrenology and certitude.

Once again: :lmao:

I love this. Another one that loves science.

:holleringfromthebackground: "We got 'em!"

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I know I don't have celiac but I can only speak to how it has helped me to greatly reduce gluten intake.

There is a good chance the above is false attribution. What has probably helped you is reducing caloric intake by eating fewer refined carbohydrates.

In other words, if you ate the same quantitiy of breads, pasta and sweets made with gluten free ingredients, I bet you wouldn't have seen much, if any, difference.

The key thing you are missing is it's easy FOR ME. What you are suggesting isn't as easy for me.

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My nephew has a big problem with gluten so my brother and sister-in-law decided their whole family would go gluten-free.

He (and they) are extremely healthy and in great shape.

So it can work for some.

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My nephew has a big problem with gluten so my brother and sister-in-law decided their whole family would go gluten-free.

He (and they) are extremely healthy and in great shape.

So it can work for some.

Yes. Good. It's cause they eat better foods.
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I believe we covered how crazy the gluten free folks were in the actions/trends thread.

The worst is the people who go out of their way to let you know that they're gluten-free. Like they've suddenly become some advanced life form based on this decision. No, you're still 350 pounds lady.

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Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

:homer:

Yes, "inherited wisdom" and not science has been the key to all the advancements of the last 200 years, not to mention the previous 2,000. Without it, we'd be living in mud huts like our ancestors did for thousands of years.

Also, you promised your "last" post on the topic for posts ago. Time to stand and deliver, pendejo.

My own personal experience does not back up this assumption.

Granted, I haven't been tested for celiac's (my insurance wouldn't cover the cost of the test if I couldn't show family history) and at the time I didn't care enough to pay out of pocket.

I have tried to eat gluten free for stretches. I lose weight, and I feel better overall. Yes, you are correct that is mostly, or entirely due to the fact that I am making better food choices for the most part, but there are a couple of observations I have made. If I am eating gluten free, and make myself a pasta dish made from gluten free noodles, I feel no effects the next day. If I am eating gluten free and have a dish or regular pasta, I will feel like crap the next day. It is definitely not all in my head.

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Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

:homer:

Yes, "inherited wisdom" and not science has been the key to all the advancements of the last 200 years, not to mention the previous 2,000. Without it, we'd be living in mud huts like our ancestors did for thousands of years.

Also, you promised your "last" post on the topic for posts ago. Time to stand and deliver, pendejo.

My own personal experience does not back up this assumption.

Granted, I haven't been tested for celiac's (my insurance wouldn't cover the cost of the test if I couldn't show family history) and at the time I didn't care enough to pay out of pocket.

I have tried to eat gluten free for stretches. I lose weight, and I feel better overall. Yes, you are correct that is mostly, or entirely due to the fact that I am making better food choices for the most part, but there are a couple of observations I have made. If I am eating gluten free, and make myself a pasta dish made from gluten free noodles, I feel no effects the next day. If I am eating gluten free and have a dish or regular pasta, I will feel like crap the next day. It is definitely not all in my head.

As I said later above, I believe there could be some tiny percentage of people who have some kind of real non-celiac gluten sensitivity. The most recent research has neither ruled out nor supported its existence.

At the risk of sounding like a jerk I'll also point out that just because you think it isn't all in your head doesn't mean it isn't all in your head either.

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The worst part that I find is that I now need to check to make sure I'm not ordering some gluten-free crap. I was at a local coffee shop recently and decided to order a blueberry muffin to go with it. I bite into it and am disgusted by how awful it tastes. I then realize the sign by the counter that all pastries are from a local bakery that is gluten-free.

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I have an issue processing gluten. My stomach Dr. told me to lay off the gluten when I was getting daily stomach pains and I have to say it worked. I still have a little gluten here and there but I chase it with a glass of metamucil orange and its OK. I also have bad allergies and issues with wheat but I feel really good and even lost some weight avoiding the wheat and gluten. Its not that hard. Low carb diets pretty much preach the same thing and it works for me.

My Dr said a lot of people bodies have a very hard time pushing the gluten through the digestive system. It would cause spasms and pain if it was an everyday thing. I have to say it makes perfect sense if you think about it. Vicodin is another thing that should be chased with fiber fwiw.

Edited by PIK95
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I seek out foods that are good for me. Tell me why wheat and breads are good for me over vegetables, clean protein, fruits, and other grains.

I don't avoid wheat and wheat products, I just choose to think they don't add any nutrition, they might hurt, and are a waste of a macro. I'd rather have a beer or a glass of wine if I want to take on empty carbs.

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I seek out foods that are good for me. Tell me why wheat and breads are good for me over vegetables, clean protein, fruits, and other grains.

I don't avoid wheat and wheat products, I just choose to think they don't add any nutrition, they might hurt, and are a waste of a macro. I'd rather have a beer or a glass of wine if I want to take on empty carbs.

You do get that is a totally different discussion, right?

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Includes and then discards, like every other method in the quest for knowledge about life.

:homer:

Yes, "inherited wisdom" and not science has been the key to all the advancements of the last 200 years, not to mention the previous 2,000. Without it, we'd be living in mud huts like our ancestors did for thousands of years.

Also, you promised your "last" post on the topic for posts ago. Time to stand and deliver, pendejo.

My own personal experience does not back up this assumption.

Granted, I haven't been tested for celiac's (my insurance wouldn't cover the cost of the test if I couldn't show family history) and at the time I didn't care enough to pay out of pocket.

I have tried to eat gluten free for stretches. I lose weight, and I feel better overall. Yes, you are correct that is mostly, or entirely due to the fact that I am making better food choices for the most part, but there are a couple of observations I have made. If I am eating gluten free, and make myself a pasta dish made from gluten free noodles, I feel no effects the next day. If I am eating gluten free and have a dish or regular pasta, I will feel like crap the next day. It is definitely not all in my head.

As I said later above, I believe there could be some tiny percentage of people who have some kind of real non-celiac gluten sensitivity. The most recent research has neither ruled out nor supported its existence.

At the risk of sounding like a jerk I'll also point out that just because you think it isn't all in your head doesn't mean it isn't all in your head either.

I get what you are saying, and unless you are trying to be a jerk, I'm not taking it as such.

But, I have made a conscious effort to determine the effects of certain foods. I have gone on gluten free stretches and then experimented with different foods to see how they affect me. Rice pasta does not have the same effect on me that regular pasta does, eaten at the same time of day in the same amount.

I've done the same experiement with alcohol, and found similar results.

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I seek out foods that are good for me. Tell me why wheat and breads are good for me over vegetables, clean protein, fruits, and other grains.

I don't avoid wheat and wheat products, I just choose to think they don't add any nutrition, they might hurt, and are a waste of a macro. I'd rather have a beer or a glass of wine if I want to take on empty carbs.

You do get that is a totally different discussion, right?

you asked the question, I answered it with my reasoning.

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I seek out foods that are good for me. Tell me why wheat and breads are good for me over vegetables, clean protein, fruits, and other grains.

I don't avoid wheat and wheat products, I just choose to think they don't add any nutrition, they might hurt, and are a waste of a macro. I'd rather have a beer or a glass of wine if I want to take on empty carbs.

You do get that is a totally different discussion, right?

you asked the question, I answered it with my reasoning.

But you aren't avoiding gluten really. You're avoiding wheat.
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I seek out foods that are good for me. Tell me why wheat and breads are good for me over vegetables, clean protein, fruits, and other grains.

I don't avoid wheat and wheat products, I just choose to think they don't add any nutrition, they might hurt, and are a waste of a macro. I'd rather have a beer or a glass of wine if I want to take on empty carbs.

You do get that is a totally different discussion, right?

you asked the question, I answered it with my reasoning.

But you aren't avoiding gluten really. You're avoiding wheat.

ok

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you asked the question, I answered it with my reasoning.

Actually I didn't.

You are talking about diet, weight and calories.

Are you avoiding gluten? Does it bother you?

Yes, No.

Is that better?

Edited by culdeus
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If you said yes to either and have never been diagnosed with celiac disease (a very real and awful malady), you are likely (1) a goofball hypocondriac, (2) an attention loving drama queen, or (3) just plain full of crap. I can't rule out an "all of the above" option.

Link

Discuss.

I have never been tested but two years ago after always being lethargic, ALWAYS gassy and having sticky stools I tried going gluten free. About a month later those symptoms went away.

5 months ago I went back on gluten to see maybe things have changed, I felt great the first week but the second week I was lethargic and having awful gas and sticky stools again. I've never been tested for Celiac, and I would have to be on gluten for a few weeks before they could test. I don't want to ever have to feel the symptoms again, so I guess I'll never know if I have Celiac.

I actually take offense to being labeled when I have very real symptons. Whether or not I have Celiac I don't know but I have a definite reaction to wheat or gluten.

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Chris Kresser had a take on the currently hip anti-gluten-free trend earlier this week: When Gluten-Free Is Not a Fad

excerpt:

Over the last year or so, we've seen a glut of stories in the popular media suggesting that non-celiac gluten sensitivity (i.e. people that react to gluten but do not have celiac disease) is a myth:

Even late-night TV host Jimmy Kimmel weighed in with a segment that got a lot of attention in both popular and social media.

Just after these stories were published, I wrote an article (“Is Gluten Sensitivity Real?”) showing how the authors grossly misinterpreted and misrepresented the research they claimed to be reviewing.

You can read my article to get the details, but here’s the takeaway: the study those stories were based on in no way disproved the existence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS), nor did it overturn the large body of evidence that links NCGS to a variety of health problems ranging from type 1 diabetes, to allergies, to schizophrenia, to autism spectrum disorders. (1, 2, 3, 4)

What struck me about those stories—aside from how embarrassing they are as examples of so-called “science journalism”—is how eager the general public seems to be to prove that gluten intolerance is an imaginary or fake condition. I’m not exactly sure why this is. Maybe it’s because gluten-containing foods and beverages like bread and beer have played such a central role in our culture for thousands of years. Or perhaps people simply distrust anything they perceive to be inauthentic or “faddish”.

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If you said yes to either and have never been diagnosed with celiac disease (a very real and awful malady), you are likely (1) a goofball hypocondriac, (2) an attention loving drama queen, or (3) just plain full of crap. I can't rule out an "all of the above" option.

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If I had to guess, I'd say you yourself are two of the three above, whether you avoid gluten or not.

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