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Another killing at the hands of the Police (5 Viewers)

Seems like one cop getting arrested would be a good start. 
No it would not.

We have had plenty of cops arrested.  And, yet here we are.

When a cop gets arrested - its a scapegoat to pacify the masses, while failing to examine and address the underlying causes.  We talk about rogue cops, or bad apples, or one-offs.  Its the system that allows these to continue to exist in police departments around the country.  The system is rogue.  The system is the bad apple.  We, as a society, should be taken a hard painful look at the system that has given rise to these incidents.

 
Does anyone know if there are food and basic necessities shortages? I haven’t left my home for a few days. Grocery stores and restaurants with curbside pickup have been destroyed. I’m assuming remaining stores won’t be able to restock until things cool down 

 
I agree it's really not about this one incident. It's about cop culture, how we police (the social worker vs military approach is spot on) and how the legal system deals with police. These are the systemic issues that need addressing. 
It's more than just the legal system re: police.  So much of the legal system is broken, from criminal to civil even to divorce law.

 
I would be wary of "reports" here, and more specifically, whether this practice was allowed/trained by police hierarchy - even in the face of written prohibitions.

I don't know any of the background facts here - but if Chauvin and other police officers get up and testify, this was SOP and encouraged method of restraint, and they were simply following their training - it makes for a very murky case against Chauvin.

I am not suggesting any of that is true - only leaving open the possibility that is the conversation that is going on behind closed doors.
About a year ago the city not only prohibited this style of training in house, they banned officers from receiving this “warrior training” style training off the job too. According to that article, the department wasn’t using those training methods at the time either (if or when they used them previously isn’t clear from this article).

What did happen is the police union defied that order and paid for private “warrior training” for any officer that wanted it.

I know the mayor is taking heat for allowing a police precinct to be torched, but his decision and reason for it I have a lot of empathy for. He made the call to abandon it at 1am (after they had removed weapons, files, etc earlier in the day) basically saying that the likely risk of loss of life to defend a building wasn’t worth it and that people’s lives were more important than the building. Offering the building as a sacrifice essentially versus potentially hurting/killing protestors and escalating things even more isn’t a decision I think should be so easily criticized. Sometimes you have to be smart enough to take the L in order to avoid an even bigger loss.

 
No it would not.

We have had plenty of cops arrested.  And, yet here we are.

When a cop gets arrested - its a scapegoat to pacify the masses, while failing to examine and address the underlying causes.  We talk about rogue cops, or bad apples, or one-offs.  Its the system that allows these to continue to exist in police departments around the country.  The system is rogue.  The system is the bad apple.  We, as a society, should be taken a hard painful look at the system that has given rise to these incidents.
I am so tired of hearing about bad apples. The number of cops who standby and allow things like this is way more than a few. 

 
Not nearly as influential as whether the community organizer Democratic mayor and African American police chief can get their city under control.
Seems like they’ve actually been trying to change the police culture that lead to officers straight up murdering someone and the police have fought that culture change tooth and nail. That culture that has created bad will and sparked this powder keg. So how about we give credit to the guys who have tried to make the right changes and blame the guys who are going around with a badge and gun and murdering citizens or promising to send in more guys with guns to shoot our own citizens?

 
Walz is the worst, between this and how he's handled covid is a total joke. This press conference is not going to help.

 
I would be wary of "reports" here, and more specifically, whether this practice was allowed/trained by police hierarchy - even in the face of written prohibitions.

I don't know any of the background facts here - but if Chauvin and other police officers get up and testify, this was SOP and encouraged method of restraint, and they were simply following their training - it makes for a very murky case against Chauvin.

I am not suggesting any of that is true - only leaving open the possibility that is the conversation that is going on behind closed doors.
About a year ago the city not only prohibited this style of training in house, they banned officers from receiving this “warrior training” style training off the job too. According to that article, the department wasn’t using those training methods at the time either (if or when they used them previously isn’t clear from this article).
Yes, thank you. I saw this topic discussed on CNN with a guest, not here. Twice I started a reply but work from home and all. Thanks for the link.

 
so the national guard is a bad thing? My guess is you'd cheer the national guard arriving if it happened in your area.
It sounds more like calling in soldiers to quiet the masses, when it was poor police procedure(and that is the kindest possible way I can put that) that once again set this off.

 
This is just being disingenuous and not at all contributing anything positive to discussion IMO. You know darn well that this is just as much politics or opinion rather than dealing with facts. If you’re upset that they’d take that stance, let’s discuss that rather than setting up a straw man and making it about something it’s not.

 
On the other hand, I know a Detroit cop who keeps a collection of pictures of all the dead bodies he has found and once alluded to having killed a homeless guy for fun. He was an absolute monster of a person in grade school and high school. Racist, cruel, closeted homosexual who abused women, obsessively wanted everyone else to follow the rules, etc. His dad was a cop who used his police powers to harass the family of his ex-wife. So while there are plenty of good cops (my uncle was an amazing, kind and gentle man), it's also a safe place for some really abusive people.  
Not a detroit cop, but pretty much all of the people that became cops from my safe suburb high school were the people you would be more scared of starting a school shooting now, the problem child bullies flying confederate flags in California types etc, than the ones you would want protecting people. Granted, it is a N of 3, so it is purely anecdotal. Now they all just post OANN/MAGA type stuff while using code that is not as subtle as they think to talk about roughing people up in more minority heavy areas. They also all post under fake names, I wonder if that is some sort of broad law enforcement officer policy, or so people cannot trace their more controversial posts back to a cop.

The problem is definitely structural, they need to hire better people.

 
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you just justified rioting/looting 

wow
I'll justify the rioting. One way for the citizenry to fight back against "government" injustices or injustices in general is to protest which may turn into rioting. What is happening in Minneapolis is not unique. Some could say rioting is a part of American culture... or a part of civil unrest throughout history. Allow me to put into writing, as others have before me, some of the most talked about rioting / looting in American history.

- 1773 - Boston Tea Party

- 1786 - Shay's Rebellion

- 1786 - Paper Money Riot

- 1791-1794 - Whiskey Rebellion

- 1831 - Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion

- 1835-1836 - Toledo War

- 1836 - Cincinnati Riots

- 1837 - Murder of Elijah Lovejoy

- 1859 - John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

- 1861-1865 American Civil War

Do I need to continue? Do I need to link to the calls or tweets or articles from white people, recently, calling to arms about opening up the states, or threats of fighting the government for injustices in the white communities? Do I need to link up tweets or speeches about how the 2nd Amendment can take care of political opponents? The sad, unfortunate, aspect of what is happening in Minneapolis is it is not talk. People around the country watched an injustice on Monday, some live, and all Americans should be demanding the arrest of the four former police. This is a clear injustice and human nature has one way to bring injustices to light. People make fun of a NFL player kneeling yet are attempting to justify the kneeling on someone's neck. It's disgusting and while I do not like what I am seeing in Minneapolis, I understand whole heartedly why it's happening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States

 
you just justified rioting/looting 

wow
I'll justify the rioting. One way for the citizenry to fight back against "government" injustices or injustices in general is to protest which may turn into rioting. What is happening in Minneapolis is not unique. Some could say rioting is a part of American culture... or a part of civil unrest throughout history. Allow me to put into writing, as others have before me, some of the most talked about rioting / looting in American history.

- 1773 - Boston Tea Party

- 1786 - Shay's Rebellion

- 1786 - Paper Money Riot

- 1791-1794 - Whiskey Rebellion

- 1831 - Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion

- 1835-1836 - Toledo War

- 1836 - Cincinnati Riots

- 1837 - Murder of Elijah Lovejoy

- 1859 - John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

- 1861-1865 American Civil War

Do I need to continue? Do I need to link to the calls or tweets or articles from white people, recently, calling to arms about opening up the states, or threats of fighting the government for injustices in the white communities? Do I need to link up tweets or speeches about how the 2nd Amendment can take care of political opponents? The sad, unfortunate, aspect of what is happening in Minneapolis is it is not talk. People around the country watched an injustice on Monday, some live, and all Americans should be demanding the arrest of the four former police. This is a clear injustice and human nature has one way to bring injustices to light. People make fun of a NFL player kneeling yet are attempting to justify the kneeling on someone's neck. It's disgusting and while I do not like what I am seeing in Minneapolis, I understand whole heartedly why it's happening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
Seems asking nicely hasn't worked and kneeling quietly on the sidelines of an NFL game didn't get them anywhere. So here we are, sadly.

 
I'll justify the rioting
why? it wasn't the "Govt" or "tyranny" that resulted in this man's death

it was an officer using excessive force

but hey, maybe you're right ... maybe we should accept destroying million of dollars worth of property and completely ignore the looting/rioting/destruction

BTW how many people died in Minneapolis last few days ... and nobody cared about them ? why ?

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/woman-found-dead-inside-car-in-north-minneapolis-amid-2nd-night-of-looting-fires/

i'm bowing out of this one - ya'll want to justify the rioting and looting, vandalizing etc instead of just calling it what it is - and what it is has noting to do with protesting

I know it

you know it

we all know it

ya'll have a great weekend

 
On the other hand, I know a Detroit cop who keeps a collection of pictures of all the dead bodies he has found and once alluded to having killed a homeless guy for fun. He was an absolute monster of a person ...  
Another anecdote:

Know a guy that was ex-Navy, a former master-at-arms at NSA Naples. Upon returning to the States, he joined the local police. He once told his wife that one of the reasons he wanted to be a policeman is that he wanted to know how it felt to kill someone.

 
Seems asking nicely hasn't worked and kneeling quietly on the sidelines of an NFL game didn't get them anywhere. So here we are, sadly.
Agreed. The Radical Right complained about a guy kneeling to bring discussion about injustices. The Radical Right complained about anti fascist protests. The Radical Right complains about one thing today then the exact opposite tomorrow. Yet, the Radical Right attempts to justify needing a haircut by threatening violence against the government.

 
why? it wasn't the "Govt" or "tyranny" that resulted in this man's death

it was an officer using excessive force

but hey, maybe you're right ... maybe we should accept destroying million of dollars worth of property and completely ignore the looting/rioting/destruction

BTW how many people died in Minneapolis last few days ... and nobody cared about them ? why ?

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/woman-found-dead-inside-car-in-north-minneapolis-amid-2nd-night-of-looting-fires/

i'm bowing out of this one - ya'll want to justify the rioting and looting, vandalizing etc instead of just calling it what it is - and what it is has noting to do with protesting

I know it

you know it

we all know it

ya'll have a great weekend
What? The police are a government body. The tyranny is in not arresting the individuals that are a part of that government body even thought they committed an injustice against the citizenry.

 
I've thought about it for 30 years - inner cities and some people just want to riot and loot and create chaos and they wait for the moment to do it. 

The root causes are people wanting to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot.
“I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard.”

- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 
why? it wasn't the "Govt" or "tyranny" that resulted in this man's death

it was an officer using excessive force

but hey, maybe you're right ... maybe we should accept destroying million of dollars worth of property and completely ignore the looting/rioting/destruction

BTW how many people died in Minneapolis last few days ... and nobody cared about them ? why ?

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/woman-found-dead-inside-car-in-north-minneapolis-amid-2nd-night-of-looting-fires/

i'm bowing out of this one - ya'll want to justify the rioting and looting, vandalizing etc instead of just calling it what it is - and what it is has noting to do with protesting

I know it

you know it

we all know it

ya'll have a great weekend


Ok this one confuses me. Umm...what? A cop using excessive force isn't the tyranny of gov't? Seems like that's kind of the definition.

 
If you use the quote function, quote the whole sentence. Don't change words or leave out the rest of a sentence or thought. 
Joe I like to leave in the quote exactly what im responding to. Sorry about that, won't do it again. However, there was one aggressive response to what I posted in this thread, I ignored it, but seeing you correct me over a quote edit and let that one slide has me confused. Clarification on that would be appreciated, maybe people reported my post, and didn't report his?

 
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“I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard.”

- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Dr. King on 60 Minutes, Sept. 27th, 1966: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K0BWXjJv5s

MLK: I contend that the cry of "Black Power" is at bottom a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the negro. I think we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last few years.

Mike Wallace: How many summers like this one do you imagine that we can expect?

MLK: Well, I would say this: we don't have long. The mood of the negro community now is one of urgency, one of saying that we aren't gonna wait, that we've got to have our freedom. We've waited too long. So that I would say that every summer we are going to have this kind of vigorous protest. My hope is that it would be non-violent. I would hope that we can avoid riots because riots are self-defeating and socially destructive. I would hope that we can avoid riots but that we will be as militant and as determined next summer and through the winter as we have been this summer and I think the answer about how long it will take will depend on the federal government, on the city halls of our various cities, and on white America to a large extent. This is where we are at this point and I think white America will determine how long it will be and which way we go in the future.

 

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