Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Another killing at the hands of the Police


In The Zone

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Of course not. And I would wager anything that the vast majority of them didn’t do a damn thing to speak out and act against police brutality.

Correct. But that’s human nature. It’s hard to get people to care about something that doesn’t actually impact them at all. Which is why sometimes groups resort to things like shutting down interstates and rioting and taking over cities. I wish this wasn’t happening to my city and I believe that there’s way too much violence and destruction going on that is distracting from the issue but one cannot ignore the fact that a lot of people who wouldn’t normally care about these things are now paying attention.

Edited by mr roboto
  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was funny but not funny.

Last night on our local 11pm newscast a reporter was live in downtown Detroit reporting on the protest going on.  There was a lot of people and a large police presence. It was getting rowdy and while the reporter was talking about police brutality a protester throws something at this black Detroit cop and hits him..right behind the reporter live on camera the cop throws the protester down and is punching his face in, then another cop comes over and they both cuff and drag the guy away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Of course not. And I would wager anything that the vast majority of them didn’t do a damn thing to speak out and act against police brutality.

 

1 minute ago, mr roboto said:

Correct. But that’s human nature. It’s hard to get people to care about something that doesn’t actually impact them at all. Which is why sometimes groups resort to things like shutting down interstates and riding and taking over cities. I wish this wasn’t happening to my city and I believe that there’s way too much violence and destruction going on that is distracting from the issue but one cannot ignore the fact that a lot of people who wouldn’t normally care about these things are now paying attention.

Guys, I'm on the phone and I'm listening.

What am I/are we supposed to do as citizens? March down to the police office, wag a finger around, and declare that they better not be brutal to any offenders? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So kneeling is bad.  BLM is bad.  Rioting is bad.

What is the "right" way to protest the execution of black people live on camera with no charges forthcoming?

BLM is good, the people responsible for rioting are white communists in ANTIFA/random thugs, they literally broke the first window on every video ive watched.

Edited by giantcookie
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Politician Spock said:

I can't even fathom the amount of denial necessary for one to believe it's untrue. 

I can't fathom that you actually think these rioters are interested in the slightest in reform. You're almost completely on an island with that.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, djmich said:

Good post, agree.  But I’m a white guy and want to know why I should be afraid of black lawyers and ceo’s.   Just trying to figure out if it’s something I need to start working against.

You don't have to and you shouldn't but my only point is, if people are truly racist, they'd fear fixed power more than this temporary lash out that fleeting.  THAT is generational change.

Edited by Smack Tripper
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Correct. But that’s human nature. It’s hard to get people to care about something that doesn’t actually impact them at all. Which is why sometimes groups resort to things like shutting down interstates and rioting and taking over cities. I wish this wasn’t happening to my city and I believe that there’s way too much violence and destruction going on that is distracting from the issue but one cannot ignore the fact that a lot of people who wouldn’t normally care about these things are now paying attention.

Couldn’t agree more with all of this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Also, if any of you who are complaining about the physical violence and looting  but saying protesting is OK, I sure hope if we go through your posting history that you were in favor of the kneeling at NFL games and other types of nonviolent protest that tried to draw attention to the discrepancies in policing between white and black communities.

Thanks. I don't need to go through my posting history. To me and many other veterans Kaepernick's actions were highly offensive. These protests are targeted at a specific, unacceptable behavior that directly involve the two parties involved in the grievance. Sorry if you don't get that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

 

I hope today, that the rioters win. I hope today that they get what they want. This is there revolutionary war. This is their moment to fight against government oppression. Our forefathers revolted because of "taxation without representation". These people today are revolting because of systemic racism towards them. These people today are revolting because they are being murdered by their government. They are fighting for even more liberty than our forefathers fought for. I hope they win. They need to win. They must win. Our country is sick with racism that for whatever reason we can't seem to let go of without a revolution. 

This is simply awful. Yes I want change. Yes I want an end to systemic racism, But burning things down and anarchy will never achieve that. 
And it makes no sense. You burn down some small business: a nail salon, an insurance office, a dry cleaners: how is that fighting against government oppression? 

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Challenge Everything said:

Also, how many posters or others not on the boards or even commentators have said they will revolt, riot, call to arms, this November if Trump loses, or elections are in question, or things don't go their way. It's all okay when the shoe is on the other foot.

Can you link to someone saying this?  I've literally never encountered anybody like you're describing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

Thanks. I don't need to go through my posting history. To me and many other veterans Kaepernick's actions were highly offensive. These protests are targeted at a specific, unacceptable behavior that directly involve the two parties involved in the grievance. Sorry if you don't get that. 

This isn’t true. if it was, then Floyd’s arrest would have stopped the protests last night. 
These protests are NOT limited to Floyd. His death was merely the last straw. There is absolutely no difference between the peaceful protests last night and those of Kaepernick. They were protesting the exact same thing. 

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

 

Guys, I'm on the phone and I'm listening.

What am I/are we supposed to do as citizens? March down to the police office, wag a finger around, and declare that they better not be brutal to any offenders? 

I’m not sure what the solution is other than demanding better and for change from our leaders and police force. Protesting is obviously the logical thing to grab people’s attention but unfortunately I’ve still seen no plan in action from leadership to address police brutality and revamp the police force and its mentality. 

It seems like there’s been more attention on this from white people who wouldn’t usually speak out which is great making people uncomfortable who are still in denial about police brutality and racial injustice, but we need actual change coming within the police force if things are going to get better. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

I really want to see black america thrive and succeed.  I'm a white guy, but we've seen black people excel and rise across so many fields.  What's going on hasn't worked and we also know historically, rioting does not work, it does not change anything, its a money shot and its done.   I don't blame these people though, purely, its probably modeling behavior and it feels like your only recourse and as a young man I, and probably many of us here, had some kind of  a destruction phase.  Because when you're young, black or white, you get put in a car thats already rolling and you have no power, and you have no perspective of what takes an hour, or 1000 hours to build takes a minute to destroy.   THAT is power. 

But its futile and fruitless when you run out of things to burn.  You learn that with age I think.  So the real power comes in building, things, careers, a job, a family, a life.   So rioting, is a failed experiment. 

What I'd hope can be instilled is to take this energy of these young people to play the long game.  Because white America is probably scared by 10,000 black rioters.  But they'd be even more scared by 10,000 black lawyers and CEOs.

I’m 100% with you until the last paragraph. I would like nothing more than young people to take the personal responsibility to improve their lives. Less poverty, less crime, stronger families, etc, etc, etc would result. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

Opinions like this is why their revolution is so hard. 

You're right - because their "revolution" isn't one at all; it's destruction and destruction alone.

And no reasonable, civilized person is going to support that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

This is simply awful. Yes I want change. Yes I want an end to systemic racism, But burning things down and anarchy will never achieve that. 
And it makes no sense. You burn down some small business: a nail salon, an insurance office, a dry cleaners: how is that fighting against government oppression? 

Wars are awful. But fighting for freedom from government oppression is something to be celebrated. It's American.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Blick said:

I’m 100% with you until the last paragraph. I would like nothing more than young people to take the personal responsibility to improve their lives. Less poverty, less crime, stronger families, etc, etc, etc would result. 

They can’t do it on their own. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

I think you’re overestimating the nuance of the position but to each their own. I think most people who didn’t like those protests just didn’t like their football being interrupted by inconvenient truth about things that they themselves don’t feel like confronting. I’m not claiming that that’s your rationale but I do believe that that’s a vast majority.

Hi, that's me.  I'm a civil libertarian who is opposed to police brutality.  I do not need a lecture on the subject when I sit down to watch a football game.  Not going to apologize for that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Politician Spock said:

Wars are awful. But fighting for freedom from government oppression is something to be celebrated. It's American.  

Well you didn’t answer my question, so I’ll put to you again. How is burning down a dry cleaners fighting for freedom from government oppression? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hi, that's me.  I'm a civil libertarian who is opposed to police brutality.  I do not need a lecture on the subject when I sit down to watch a football game.  Not going to apologize for that.

And that’s fine. But that’s not the faux patriotic anger that Trump was trying to stoke. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Blick said:

And they can’t be helped if they don’t help themselves. 

Well we can debate that forever (and no doubt somebody will.) But although systemic racism by the police is certainly intertwined with this issue, it really needs to stand on its own as a problem to be addressed. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the Star Tribune:
"Shaken by another night of chaos, Gov. Tim Walz will fully mobilize the National Guard to combat what he called a “tightly controlled” group of outside agitators who have turned city streets into scenes of looting and arson."

Interesting. Does that imply that they know who is behind these outside agitators? I wonder who that could be (no really, I'm don't know and am not speculating at all). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Also, if any of you who are complaining about the physical violence and looting  but saying protesting is OK, I sure hope if we go through your posting history that you were in favor of the kneeling at NFL games and other types of nonviolent protest that tried to draw attention to the discrepancies in policing between white and black communities.

Of course not, it has nothing to do with protesting and everything to do with the loss of subservience. Anything besides taking it without complaint would be too much. It is always the same thing of "well, if they did it the OTHER way I would be all for it". Why can't they just peacefully demonstrate? <Peaceful demonstration> No, not like that. It does not even have to do with protests, it is the same false "I am just a moderate who does not like what they are doing, if only they did it the other way you would see how unbiased I am". You see it with political candidates here "well, of course I would vote for the OTHER candidate as an independent unbiased highly intelligent person, an arbiter of reason, but they just chose this one who I will not vote for" with the obvious joke being that they would say that for any candidate. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Andy Dufresne said:

From the Star Tribune:
"Shaken by another night of chaos, Gov. Tim Walz will fully mobilize the National Guard to combat what he called a “tightly controlled” group of outside agitators who have turned city streets into scenes of looting and arson."

Interesting. Does that imply that they know who is behind these outside agitators? I wonder who that could be (no really, I'm don't know and am not speculating at all). 

IMO he needs to be careful with the phrase “outside agitators” because it’s coded language from the old civil rights days. 
That being said, he’s understandably attempting to avoid alienating his own constituency. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

From the Star Tribune:
"Shaken by another night of chaos, Gov. Tim Walz will fully mobilize the National Guard to combat what he called a “tightly controlled” group of outside agitators who have turned city streets into scenes of looting and arson."

Interesting. Does that imply that they know who is behind these outside agitators? I wonder who that could be (no really, I'm don't know and am not speculating at all). 

Didn’t they say ANTIFA and White Supremacists?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I figured this had to be the work of out-of-state agitators.  Everybody knows that when true Minnesotans go to a riot, they bring a hot dish to pass.

It does make me wonder, since I’ve only passed through Minnesota once and that was in December: what would have happened If this murder had occurred during the winter months?Has there ever been a mass protest in freezing weather?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hi, that's me.  I'm a civil libertarian who is opposed to police brutality.  I do not need a lecture on the subject when I sit down to watch a football game.  Not going to apologize for that.

But that was an example of a peaceful protest trying to bring more awareness to the problem. Why would you not support a peaceful attempt to bring more awareness to an issue that you support? A dude kneeling before the game even started really bothered you that much? If so, what do you think is the right approach for them to take so we can finally see some change in our police force? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

This isn’t true. if it was, then Floyd’s arrest would have stopped the protests last night. 
These protests are NOT limited to Floyd. His death was merely the last straw. There is absolutely no difference between the peaceful protests last night and those of Kaepernick. They were protesting the exact same thing. 

Yes. It is absolutely true. Read what I said more carefully.

It's not the "what" that was being protested it's the "how." The timing and form Kaepernick's tactics (that @rockaction articulated very well in his post) offended just as many if not more people than he gained sympathy from. 

It's not for you and the protesters tell potential sympathizers and allies why they are offended by one protest and completely supportive of other forms. If protestors want support, they should be the ones adapting their tactics accordingly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

Has anyone posted this yet?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

white cops kill a white guy in a similar way, mock him, none of the cops were charged.

 

Yep, I saw that. Awful and really not too surprising. This is why I have such a tough time understanding how anyone couldn’t be behind this movement. While blacks are more disproportionally the victims of police brutality, it happens to all races. It’s wrong no matter who is involved and we must demand better and a reformation of our police force.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hi, that's me.  I'm a civil libertarian who is opposed to police brutality.  I do not need a lecture on the subject when I sit down to watch a football game.  Not going to apologize for that.

How do you feel generally about playing the national anthem before football games?  It’s always seemed arbitrary to me (and sort of a lecture in its own right to use your logic). Why don’t we play the anthem at the theater before a movie?  Or at a stadium before a concert?

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

Has anyone posted this yet?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

white cops kill a white guy in a similar way, mock him, none of the cops were charged.

 

It’s not relevant. Neither is the story that is going around conservative websites of a black cop choking a white kid to death. 

Floyds death is not a single instance of bad behavior; it’s part of a pattern of systemic racism: white cops against black people. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

You're right - because their "revolution" isn't one at all; it's destruction and destruction alone.

And no reasonable, civilized person is going to support that.

I think we all agree that executing helpless prisoners and burning buildings is wrong.

Based on roughly 10,000 days of data, it seems like the burning of buildings doesn't happen without the execution of innocent prisoners.  So maybe we should focus on that?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

why even call them ANTIFA, call them by their real name, communists. 

 

Btw, if you look at the riot videos in almost every one of them, its a white communist that breaks the first window.

I'd imagine that's more of a Trumper Actor trying to start stuff and incite the riots.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

Yes. It is absolutely true. Read what I said more carefully.

It's not the "what" that was being protested it's the "how." The timing and form Kaepernick's tactics (that @rockaction articulated very well in his post) offended just as many if not more people than he gained sympathy from. 

It's not for you and the protesters tell potential sympathizers and allies why they are offended by one protest and completely supportive of other forms. If protestors want support, they should be the ones adapting their tactics accordingly.

I understand why you think Kaepernick’s protest was ineffective and you make a good point as to that; I made a similar point at the time. But you haven’t really explained why you were offended by it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The solution would be to improve our police force by recalling and banning all surplus military equipment (some town of 3000 people does not need an APC), better hiring practices to weed out those that seek the role for authority and power over others, and greater accountability where anyone abusing the system is punished, and not covered up by fellow officers (which people still insist are good apples just because they did not do the crime), which are then covered up by a pro-police DA office, which are then covered up by pro-police politicians. If the accidental death happened and a proper investigation and punishment took place I think there would be less anger. However, time and time again it seems like the law is "I don't feel like arresting myself today" and there is almost never punishment or even an investigation so that it has become a complete farce. 

All the discussion about the proper form of protest is completely meaningless, because without changing the police you will set the stage for the next riot or protest next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. 

Edited by huthut
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s not relevant. Neither is the story that is going around conservative websites of a black cop choking a white kid to death. 

Floyds death is not a single instance of bad behavior; it’s part of a pattern of systemic racism: white cops against black people. 

Disagreed, I think it’s relevant. The main focus of the protest is to bring attention to police brutality and that the police force needs to be revamped. Yes, a lot of the attention is on the fact that blacks are disproportionately the victims of police brutality, but at the end of the day everyone is looking for change within the police force. We want cops disciplined when they abuse their power (not just for murdering someone), we want cops to go through reformed training that teaches them to not use force or escalate situations, we want rigorous background checks that doesn’t allow cops who have a violent past or have extremist views to get through the system, we want cops to hold each other accountable and change the mentality within the police force. These are the things that need to happen if we want to see true change in regards to police brutality.

Edited by Bucsfan5493
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

Has anyone posted this yet?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

white cops kill a white guy in a similar way, mock him, none of the cops were charged.

 

Interesting quote from the article:

Quote

For a person who is restrained and gasping for air, the instinct often is to panic and struggle.  Officers may interpret this as resisting and apply more pressure to the person’s back.

“It’s a lethal cycle that happens,” Heipt said

I’m not saying it was the case in this recent death, but it makes sense that stuff like this can happen.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...