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Another killing at the hands of the Police


In The Zone

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2 hours ago, Summer Wheat said:

I never cared who kneeled but how did that kneeling protest work out for Mr. Floyd? During that time people were still getting beat and shot by police as nothing changed.  People can kneel all they want on TV as that is the easy part.  The hard part is on the actual streets.  Kneeling does nothing to prevent what happens in the streets every day.

That is part of the point...people had that much of a problem with peaceful protest...but no change occurred.  People march and chant...and no change occurs.  When you continue to yell and your voice is not heard, people turn to what we have seen...its sad.

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4 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Ding ding ding. 

People got stupid in MKE last night. It wasnt people from out of state. It wasnt antifa. It wasnt white supremacists. 

It was the same people that would have gone and stolen a car in the burbs or trashed a local business with a few of their friends. 

They just happen to all be together last night so the mob mentality made it worse and focused on one place. 

 

:goodposting: Should have rounded them all up at once when we had the chance.  

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https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protests-05-30-20/index.htmlinteresting 

Anger boils over in more than 30 cities leaving a man dead in Detroit and an officer dead in Oakland after George Floyd's death

 

Congrats to everyone who supports the riots/looting/violence - more innocent people dead which everyone knows is what happens when riots/looting/violence is allowed.

 

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

That is part of the point...people had that much of a problem with peaceful protest...but no change occurred.  People march and chant...and no change occurs.  When you continue to yell and your voice is not heard, people turn to what we have seen...its sad.

so when gun owners pour into the streets with violence/rioting/looting to protest radical gun laws, you'll support us ?

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1 minute ago, Andy Dufresne said:

A corner dry cleaner and an Amazon of its day are not the same at all. 

So it's not the destruction of private property that matters, but the size of the private property that does. 

Okay, so what large private property should they be destroying to make it the same as the Boston Tea Party?

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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

He’s going to blame this on Democrats, CNN, fake news, deep state, etc etc in the hopes of gaining undecideds. I read his twitter just to get an idea of how he wants to spin things. Honestly, if someone is still undecided, sadly I believe his strategy could work.

The true problem with those protesting (and this goes for any protest) is that they struggle to have a clear message, lack organization, leadership, goals, demands, and they’re easily infiltrated by criminals. It’s almost always too much to overcome and execute. 

 

But they are going to turn around and use his words of when the looting starts the shooting starts...and today's tweets about vicious dogs and how the agents are "just waiting for action".  

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I have not been in this thread hardly at all lately. Like many, the feeling of being overwhelmed is difficult. I'm sad and angry and lots of other things. And to be honest, this thread does not help me there.

I hope this is a honda. But if not, this was good from President Obama.

Hoping you find peace and grace. 

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6 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

That is part of the point...people had that much of a problem with peaceful protest...but no change occurred.  People march and chant...and no change occurs.  When you continue to yell and your voice is not heard, people turn to what we have seen...its sad.

I agree than no change happened as it quickly turned into a NA protest debacle and people forgot fast what the original protest was even about. 

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2 minutes ago, Death Bytes said:

So it's not the destruction of private property that matters, but the size of the private property that does. 

Okay, so what large private property should they be destroying to make it the same as the Boston Tea Party?

Tossing some Kindles out the back of an Amazon truck.

Really, there is no comparison. The EIC had the tacit backing of the Crown so the Boston Tea Party was way closer to a political statement than burning down an Auto Zone is.

 

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The Boston Tea Party was a political and mercantile protest by the Sons of Liberty in Boston, Massachusetts, on December 16, 1773.[1] The target was the Tea Act of May 10, 1773, which allowed the British East India Company to sell tea from China in American colonies without paying taxes apart from those imposed by the Townshend Acts. 

 

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11 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

Here we go with the messaging again. There are millions and millions of middle/working class white Americans who don't feel privileged one bit.

Just because they don't feel it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

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12 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

so when gun owners pour into the streets with violence/rioting/looting to protest radical gun laws, you'll support us ?

Go back and read what I have said on the topic of violent protest and peaceful protest.  Then read that post again and ask if it says I support violence, rioting, and looting.

 

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7 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

I agree than no change happened as it quickly turned into a NA protest debacle and people forgot fast what the original protest was even about. 

Yes...and let me get set this straight.  Im talking about the of the actual protests...not the organized out of staters coming in to cause trouble.  I think there is an agenda there as well that is actually counter to what the real protest and anger is about.

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15 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

Here we go with the messaging again. There are millions and millions of middle/working class white Americans who don't feel privileged one bit.

They may not feel it...but doesn't that mean there is none?

Ask them what they fear when they see blue lights in their rearview mirror?  Likely fear the ticket, the expense, insurance going up, or the inconvenience of going to court.

Ask many black men what they fear when they see blue lights.

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

Speaking of gun owners...

Minnesota has over 300k permit to carry holders. That nobody has been shot in light of all this is amazing and gratifying to be.

We'll see if that holds on "MAGA Night"

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4 minutes ago, the moops said:

Just because they don't feel it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

Go ahead. Try and cram down the thought to a law-abiding white blue collar worker that he/she should feel relatively privileged. See if it helps get them to join your cause.

Hint: it won't.

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Just now, PhantomJB said:

Go ahead. Try and cram down the thought to a law-abiding white blue collar worker that he/she should feel relatively privileged. See if it helps get them to join your cause.

Hint: it won't.

I'm not telling them to feel anything. I'm just telling you that it is real.

 

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3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Speaking of gun owners...

Minnesota has over 300k permit to carry holders. That nobody has been shot in light of all this is amazing and gratifying to me.

I hope this continues to be true moving forward.

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20 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

 

Tossing some Kindles out the back of an Amazon truck.

Really, there is no comparison. The EIC had the tacit backing of the Crown so the Boston Tea Party was way closer to a political statement than burning down an Auto Zone is.

 

 

Let's break down Ben Franklin's response letter.

Quote

Gentlemen: I received the Honour of your Letter dated Decr. 21, containing a distinct Account of the Proceedings at Boston relative to the Tea imported there, and of the Circumstances that occasioned its Destruction. I communicated the same to Lord Dartmouth, with some other Advices of the same import.

Here he is saying I'm doing my job as an ambassador. Your message has been delivered.

Quote

It is yet unknown what Measures will be taken here on the Occasion; but the Clamour against the Proceedings is high and general. I am truly concern’d, as I believe all considerate Men are with you, that there should seem to any a Necessity for carrying Matters to such Extremity, as, in a Dispute about Publick Rights, to destroy private Property;

Here he is saying he is concerned, because any reasonable man does not see any need for the extremity of destroying private property over a public rights dispute. 

Quote

This (notwithstanding the Blame justly due to those who obstructed the Return of the Tea) it is impossible to justify with People so prejudiced in favour of the Power of Parliament to tax America, as most are in this Country.

Here he is saying people here will never be convinced you were justified to destroy private property as they believe the government has done nothing wrong. 

Quote

As the India Company however are not our Adversaries, and the offensive Measure of sending their Teas did not take its Rise with them, but was an Expedient of the Ministry to serve them and yet avoid a Repeal of the old Act,

Here he is saying two things: 1) the EIC is not our adversaries; and 2) what we Americans found offensive was not even their idea. They were ordered to do it by the government to serve the government. To call it a "tacit backing" flies in the face of everything Ben Franklin is saying. 

Quote

I cannot but wish & hope that before any compulsive Measures are thought of here, our General court will have shewn a Disposition to repair the Damage and make Compensation to the Company. This all our Friends here wish with me; and that if War is finally to be made upon us, which some threaten, an Act or violent injustice on our part, unrectified, may not give a colourable Pretence for it. A speedy Reparation will immediately set us right in the Opinion of all Europe. And tho’ the Mischief was the Act of Persons unknown, yet as probably they cannot be found or brought to answer for it, there seems to be some reasonable Claim on the Society at large in which it happened. Making voluntarily such Reparation can be no Dishonour to us or Prejudice to our Claim or Rights, since Parliament here has frequently considered in the same Light similar Cases; and only a few Years since, when a valuable Saw-mill, which had been destroyed by a Number of Persons supposed to be Sawyers, but unknown, a Grant was made out of the Publick Treasury of Two Thousand Pounds to the Owner as a Compensation—I hope in thus freely (and perhaps too forwardly) expressing my Sentiments & Wishes, I shall not give Offence to any. I am sure I mean well; being over with sincere Affection to my native Country, and great Respect to the Assembly and yourselves,

Gentlemen, Your most obedient and most humble Servant

The rest of his letter above is Ben wanting the EIC to be compensated for the damage inflected to them. They were a private company who had their private property destroyed by the revolting colonists. 

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8 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

They may not feel it...but doesn't that mean there is none?

Ask them what they fear when they see blue lights in their rearview mirror?  Likely fear the ticket, the expense, insurance going up, or the inconvenience of going to court.

Ask many black men what they fear when they see blue lights.

Go back and read my other posts...I'm talking about protesting tactics to get the best support vs. ones that just p*ss off the very people you want as allies.

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Like @mcintyre1 this whole thing has been truly exhausting. To see the cities that are now my adopted home go up in flames and see pictures posted by friends who live in the thick of it. It is a just incredibly sad and disheartening and exhausting. 

Gonna go for a long bike ride right eh family to get away from it all. Which feels good but wrong in some ways. :kicksrock:

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14 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

They may not feel it...but doesn't that mean there is none?

Ask them what they fear when they see blue lights in their rearview mirror?  Likely fear the ticket, the expense, insurance going up, or the inconvenience of going to court.

Ask many black men what they fear when they see blue lights.

I, and that's just me.   I fear everything.   Interior lights turned on and both my hands on the wheel, window down, both times I've been pulled over.

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1 hour ago, Challenge Everything said:

There are way too many posts and posters to sift through on this forum to go back 1, 2, 3, or more years even using keyword searches (although I haven't tried) however:

- “I think you’d have riots,” Trump told CNN on Wednesday.

- Violence in the name of Trump

- Riots aren't necessarily a bad thing.

I'm not going to go through all of Facebook, YouTube, and other social media sites but I'm sure Alex Jones and others had plenty to say when it comes to fighting or taking up arms if certain situations arose. Not to mention, Trump's own, "2nd Amendment people," is not a call for a silent protest.

And, just today...Trump White House dogs... this is advocating his own type of violence.

 

48 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Wat?  :lol: Are you feeling ok. 

Call out the ones you love. TIA

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

We don’t not have a general problem of police mistreatment in this country. As a general rule while people are treated great by police. When I am stopped by a policeman I feel totally safe. I have no fear of being shot. I don’t have to give my kids “the talk”. It’s minorities who have something to fear, not the general population. 

What about minorities who are policed by people of the same color.   You seem to be OK if a black cop shoots a black person, or a white cop shoots a white person justified or not.   For many years Detroit has been one of the top cities for police shooting citizens..but they are a majority black police force with a black police chief  policing a majority black population.   So that is OK?

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16 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

@Death Bytes I think all that supports my argument more than yours.

But if all you're saying about it being the same is that both examples, a corner dry cleaner and the BEIC are/were private companies, then I guess I agree with that.

But the differences are more significant than the similarities.

I agree there are differences. But those differences are due to the 18th century and 21st century being different.

Destruction by the revolters in the 18th century has to be very strategic in order for the message to be heard 3000 miles away. If the 18th century revolters destroyed a bunch of corner taverns, a bunch of pissed off tavern owners in the colonies isn't going to get much of the concern of the government 3000 miles away. But a pissed of East India Company does.

In the 21st century, revolters don't have to destroy the property of a large company like Amazon or Apple to get their message heard, especially now that there is no ocean in between, and even if there were, social media would turn that ocean into a creek. A bunch of pissed off small business owners is more than enough in the 21st century. 

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1 minute ago, Death Bytes said:

I agree there are differences. But those differences are due to the 18th century and 21st century being different.

Destruction by the revolters in the 18th century has to be very strategic in order for the message to be heard 3000 miles away. If the 18th century revolters destroyed a bunch of corner taverns, a bunch of pissed off tavern owners in the colonies isn't going to get much of the concern of the government 3000 miles away. But a pissed of East India Company does.

In the 21st century, revolters don't have to destroy the property of a large company like Amazon or Apple to get their message heard, especially now that there is no ocean in between, and even if there were, social media would turn that ocean into a creek. A bunch of pissed off small business owners is more than enough 21st century. 

That is, if you think the small business owners will blame the government for their loss instead of the vandals that directly caused it. I find that really unlikely.

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1 hour ago, Widbil83 said:

According to CNN’s Van Jones, he fits this mold perfect being a white Hillary Clinton voter.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-van-jones-white-liberal-hillary-clinton-supporter-scarier-kkk.amp

Lol. 
 

it’s really pathetic that some people here are incapable of offering rebuttal to argument, or engaging in serious discussion, but instead feel the need to always resort of personal attacks: against me, against @sho nuff, against @squistion, against anyone who makes a point that you have no real idea how to counter. 
I’m amused by your attempt to pigeonhole me, but more certain than ever in my convictions. 

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

That is, if you think the small business owners will blame the government for their loss instead of the vandals that directly caused it. I find that really unlikely.

I don't follow you at all. In each situation, the owners of the private property blame the rioters. The EIC blamed the revolting colonists. Today's business owners blame the revolting black population. 

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14 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

What about minorities who are policed by people of the same color.   You seem to be OK if a black cop shoots a black person, or a white cop shoots a white person justified or not.   For many years Detroit has been one of the top cities for police shooting citizens..but they are a majority black police force with a black police chief  policing a majority black population.   So that is OK?

Thanks for making an argument. 
I’m not OK with any of it. I’m not OK with wrongful actions period. What I’m OK with is the media focusing on stories that represent a greater pattern of events. IMO that is their proper function. 

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1 minute ago, Death Bytes said:

I don't follow you at all. In each situation, the owners of the private property blame the rioters. The EIC blamed the revolting colonists. Today's business owners blame the revolting black population. 

Yeah, I'm not getting your point either. But it's okay, truly. We see it differently but it's probably not important enough of a distinction to hash out.

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Lol. 
 

it’s really pathetic that some people here are incapable of offering rebuttal to argument, or engaging in serious discussion, but instead feel the need to always resort of personal attacks: against me, against @sho nuff, against @squistion, against anyone who makes a point that you have no real idea how to counter. 
I’m amused by your attempt to pigeonhole me, but more certain than ever in my convictions. 

Why are you 3 always the victim?  And :lmao: about serious discussion with that group of people.   Have a good weekend

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Why are you 3 always the victim?  And :lmao: about serious discussion with that group of people.   Have a good weekend

Tim and the Twitter two.  Fighting back years of white privilege volume posting at FBGs.  

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I apologize in advance because I’m uninformed guy here - what’s the story with the events surrounding the death? I know Flyd was wanted for passing a $20 counterfeit bill. Did he struggle or fight at all during the course of the arrest? Was he arrested on the spot where he tried to pass the bill or was he tracked down later? Frankly the video and the aftermath have been so disturbing I’ve largely avoided the details of it. Anyway, TIA.

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1 hour ago, Trey said:

This is a prime example of why it is so hard to follow stories via social media these days. I’ve read everything from Antifa to white supremecists to undercover cops are getting involved in this chaos.

would love some clarity from officials. 

I was at the Portland protest last night.  Started at Peninsula Park where thousands showed up to listen to speakers and show support. Pastors, community leaders, every day citizens got up to speak. Lasted about 3 hours and then the march towards downtown started. You could see the antifa folks at the park surrounding the park and showing their presence. I didn’t see much participation from them showing support, they were just there.

They are the ones who started the destruction, tagging, and damage as the protest started to march down MLK avenue towards downtown. 

They are anarchists. They hate the current power system. Yes, they hate nazis and white supremacy which I appreciate, but they are destructive and they should no way be aligned with democrats/liberals/progressives. They look for any reason to stir up #### and be destructive.

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Thanks for making an argument. 
I’m not OK with any of it. I’m not OK with wrongful actions period. What I’m OK with is the media focusing on stories that represent a greater pattern of events. IMO that is their proper function. 

I understand but the media never paints the big picture or tells the whole stories.  About 10 years ago there was car chase in Detroit on live TV.  News helicopter was following the whole thing.  It went on through neighborhoods, then onto the Lodge freeway with 5 police cars in pursuit.  The guy finally lost control, bailed and started running with 7- 8 cops chasing.  When one police officer tackled him the other came flying in with clubs, punches and kicks and laid a beating on this guy more vicious than Rodney King got., while some bystanders were yelling "kick his ###" They had to call an ambulance.  All this while the helicopter was filming.

The next day there was hardly anything reported on local news about it, zero national news and you know why.  It was a black perp and all black cops. So the media did not care..it was not news, not a big story.  But these things happen all the time.

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10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I also don’t think the Tea Party is a good comparison. It would be if one corporation owned every building and business in Minneapolis, and if that corporation was quasi-governmental. But since none of that is the case the analogy is flawed IMO. 

It doesn't have to be a good comparison to answer your question. Your question was: 

2 hours ago, timschochet said:

You burn down some small business: a nail salon, an insurance office, a dry cleaners: how is that fighting against government oppression? 

By looking for differences regarding what specifically was destroyed, you've already passed the question's answer that destruction of private property is how fighting against government oppression has occurred in the past.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I also don’t think the Tea Party is a good comparison. It would be if one corporation owned every building and business in Minneapolis, and if that corporation was quasi-governmental. But since none of that is the case the analogy is flawed IMO. 

My memory of much of revolutionary war history has faded quite a bit, but wasnt the tea party mostly inconsequential and disliked by many of the leaders of the day?

It took an overreaction from the british to make it the historically significant act that we view it as. 

Which is such a weird parallel. So are people that are trying to compare this to the boston tea party hoping for protesters to get mowed down and then for there to be a war?  

 

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10 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

I was at the Portland protest last night.  Started at Peninsula Park where thousands showed up to listen to speakers and show support. Pastors, community leaders, every day citizens got up to speak. Lasted about 3 hours and then the march towards downtown started. You could see the antifa folks at the park surrounding the park and showing their presence. I didn’t see much participation from them showing support, they were just there.

They are the ones who started the destruction, tagging, and damage as the protest started to march down MLK avenue towards downtown. 

They are anarchists. They hate the current power system. Yes, they hate nazis and white supremacy which I appreciate, but they are destructive and they should no way be aligned with democrats/liberals/progressives. They look for any reason to stir up #### and be destructive.

It is true Anifta is associated with liberals and labeled as a liberal hate group when in fact they hate everything.

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20 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

I was at the Portland protest last night.  Started at Peninsula Park where thousands showed up to listen to speakers and show support. Pastors, community leaders, every day citizens got up to speak. Lasted about 3 hours and then the march towards downtown started. You could see the antifa folks at the park surrounding the park and showing their presence. I didn’t see much participation from them showing support, they were just there.

They are the ones who started the destruction, tagging, and damage as the protest started to march down MLK avenue towards downtown. 

They are anarchists. They hate the current power system. Yes, they hate nazis and white supremacy which I appreciate, but they are destructive and they should no way be aligned with democrats/liberals/progressives. They look for any reason to stir up #### and be destructive.

That's what ive been posting for two days now.

Also, lets not forget

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html

which was originally titled Activists seek peace through violence.. lol.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I’m not uncomfortable at all about the conversation. But it’s wrong. 

The reason that black cops killing blacks and white cops killing whites and black cops killing whites are rarely covered is because they’re not part of the systemic racism that exists in this country. The media didn’t create that racism nor do they hype it up. They report it, and the anguish and anger that follows, because it exists. 

I’m way more jaded that you brother, but I think it’s because those stories drive traffic.

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For some of my friends, I feel like the old Tony Campolo line speaking to a church audience. (and yeah, I'm circumventing the filter)

I've got three things to say:

1. A cop choked a man to death in Minneapolis this week.

2. Some of you don't really give a s###.

3. Worse, some of you are more upset I said "s###" than you are about the man being choked to death. 

 

I wrote this today and linked to President Obama's post https://www.obama.org/updates/this-shouldnt-be-normal/

On one hand, the internet and social media don't need my one more thought on this. On the other, how does anything change if people stay silent?

I talk a lot about "Empathy" and "We're all in this together". Both of those apply here.

I'll never fully and completely understand what my Black friends go through and have gone through. What I can do is show empathy. To at least try to understand. What I can do is listen to them. And listen to others who are exposing parts of our world people of my race and people who live in my neighborhood may minimize. Or even ignore.

We can't ignore this if we truly believe the second thing - "We're all in this together". Let's be clear - I don't mean "All of us that I like and that look like me and think like me and won't challenge me are all in this together." I mean all of us. In the South, we say "Y'all means all". That has to be the case here too.

So if we're going to practice empathy, we'll see the news of a man killed in Minneapolis hits some of us "all" in a different and more profound way. And that matters a lot. Ram Dass said, "We're all just walking each other home at night". I believe that to be true.

To my Black friends and People Of Color, in whatever this may look like, I'm with you. We're with you. Praying for peace and grace and strength and courage and wisdom to move forward here and make a change. Please God, we can't let this be normal.

 

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3 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

From the Star Tribune:
"Shaken by another night of chaos, Gov. Tim Walz will fully mobilize the National Guard to combat what he called a “tightly controlled” group of outside agitators who have turned city streets into scenes of looting and arson."

Interesting. Does that imply that they know who is behind these outside agitators? I wonder who that could be (no really, I'm don't know and am not speculating at all). 

Antifa? 🤷‍♂️

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