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Another killing at the hands of the Police


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7 minutes ago, Chicago Hooligan said:

Sunday morning. Wake up, brew some coffee, log into my fantasy football messageboard. Fight for my right to call people subhuman. The perfect day.

Maybe with a name like yours you should steer clear in this thread  until after the riots are over 

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Members 16,204 31,897 posts Gender:Not Telling Report post Posted 4 minutes ago I have been contacted by several posters for my thoughts.  I struggled with coming back ev

The entire written statement from General Mattis should be required reading:

Spent the day at the DC marches yesterday. It was mostly peaceful, respectful. Angry at times, but definitely peaceful. We had a hiccup at one point after a group gathered at the Lincoln for some spee

3 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Sorry, but using one term based on its actual meaning, does not make me racist.

:goodposting:

Pretty sad behavior. Looks like you are from Minnesota, hope you and yours family are safe during these times. 

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

 

I mean - did you think this Administration was going to do anything to address the underlying issues?

I get what you’re saying, but what administration has?

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Just now, Cjw_55106 said:

I get what you’re saying, but what administration has?

Well, the first step to recovery is acknowledging the problem.

If we can't acknowledge the problem, we will never solve it.

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25 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Wow

He's really trying to claim that white nationalists are in all these cities causing destruction?  I know most of his posts are intellectually dishonest but geez did he take a single report and apply to 100 cities?  

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10 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Nah, I think most in here know their basic world history and are decent enough not to refer to other human beings as “subhuman animals”.
 

Good job white-knighting though. Racists need defending too!

Everyone drop this. 

Don't use "subhuman" to describe people. 

We can talk about the riots and do it respectfully. 

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10 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Sorry, but using one term based on its actual meaning, does not make me racist.

On the surface, no, but words often take on different meanings than their official definition, and I have to believe that most of you know that.  There are better ways of criticizing the rioters than stooping to using words like "subhman" and "animals." 

Edit: just saw Joe's post. That is the first and last of it from me.

Edited by Ghost Rider
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6 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

@Gawain I’m looking back and see some quotes but haven’t seen the study or article, so bear with me a bit here. I’m not exactly sure why firing their weapon is any threshold to point at here. While this particular incident is the reason for these protests, it’s a societal problem as much as it’s a police violence problem. It’s Breonna Taylor, Arbery, the lady with the dog off leash calling the police saying “there’s a black man threatening me,” the guy picking trash up around his building that gets guns drawn on him because he doesn’t have ID and was pointing his trash grabber at the police officer, the times a gun is drawn and pointed at someone during a traffic stop. 

This was the NYT report of the Harvard study I quoted here and there:  https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0

Might require a subscription.

I think you're talking about two issues, policing and societal norms.
To me, policing is both the easier issue addressed and the issue that is much easier to bring black/white and left/right together on.

White people are killed just like black people are.
 

Quote

The parallels in these cases with ones we have heard more about are chilling. Shaver’s waving the pellet gun parallels John Crawford, shot and killed two summers ago for playing with a toy BB gun at a Walmart. Dylan Noble’s reaching into his pocket and being killed for it parallels what seems to have happened to Alton Sterling and other black victims. The officer’s depiction of Loren Simpson as one of a menacing “they” recalls George Zimmerman’s “these a**holes, they always get away” in his 911 call about Trayvon Martin.

There is a policing issue. This is a problem of the Us v. Them mentality. This is a problem that needs to be solved.

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

I get what you’re saying, but what administration has?

 

That's fair. I would say that the Obama administration at least tried to have conversations about it. But talk is cheap, obviously.

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I have no idea who this guy is or what his twitter represents.  I also strongly doubt these were "socialists".  Just sharing for the video.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1266877350358077441?s=20

Eat the rich.  As you can see, this movement is morphing into a much bigger thing.  Floyd may have been the spark.  I'll say what I said yesterday, I hope that last night was the peak.

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38 minutes ago, Witz said:

 

 

No one is muddying the waters - talking specifically about specific responses to specific posts.

He was replying to the post about the shopkeepers getting beat. That was his response. You 'loved' this response. Now maybe you were reacting to other things he said (which I do agree with) but that single bolded response was buried in with the rest of the response. 

That's the issue with this - they aren't mutually exclusive. Regardless of everything else, violence in any form against anyone is unacceptable and shouldn't be viewed as the 'answer for change'. Do you agree or disagree with that? 

 

I wasn’t speaking about that specific video when I said I wasn’t sure if this was the answer. Obviously what they did was disgusting. I am talking about the rioting as a whole. As I said, there was silent kneeling and people had an issue with that. It seems that everything the black community does to try and fix this issue in America, people have a problem with it. Again, I don’t have the answer but I’m smart enough to see there’s a much bigger problem than store owners and their things. If you have an issue with that, I’m okay with that. ✌🏾

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

 

That's fair. I would say that the Obama administration at least tried to have conversations about it. But talk is cheap, obviously.

I just have no idea what the solution is.....and it seems everyone is saying that. 

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

 

That's fair. I would say that the Obama administration at least tried to have conversations about it. But talk is cheap, obviously.

He had Ferguson and Baltimore happen during his terms.   Not claiming those are his fault just like Minnesota isn't Trump's fault.   Police brutality is the fault of the police and the courts that go light on those cops that do commit crimes.

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

He had Ferguson and Baltimore happen during his terms.   Not claiming those are his fault just like Minnesota isn't Trump's fault.   Police brutality is the fault of the police and the courts that go light on those cops that do commit crimes.

Doesn’t fit the narrative 

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3 minutes ago, shader said:

I have no idea who this guy is or what his twitter represents.  I also strongly doubt these were "socialists".  Just sharing for the video.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1266877350358077441?s=20

Eat the rich.  As you can see, this movement is morphing into a much bigger thing.  Floyd may have been the spark.  I'll say what I said yesterday, I hope that last night was the peak.

Did a search on that Ian Miles Cheong guy...seems to be a bit of an agitator himself.

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I believe there are both extreme right and left organizations at play in the violence.  I don't think they constitute a significant number in terms of people, but they are in terms of leading the pack, getting the crowd riled up, setting off the spark.  IMO it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to drive a riled up crowd to violence.

I think the goals are varied: start a race war, prove that certain people are "sub-human", shine a light on injustices,  being about a civil war, or generally cause chaos.  Don't think for a second that these flames arent being fanned by international bad actors looking to destabilize us.

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7 minutes ago, GROOT said:

https://www.cnn.com/

 

not one mention of the word riot after 3 days of nonstop burning and looting

 

 

So they don't use the word in headlines?  They are showing the images...showing it erupted in chaos, "Fire and Fury Spread Across US"

The complaint is it doesn't say riot?

 

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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

Mayor Bowser just said she isn’t allowing parades on her street during phase one. Too late imo

So you can protest? But you can't do anything else? Maybe they should call the 4th of July Parade a protest then? Perhaps a celebration of the protest from 200+ years ago?

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🤔

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

To the leaders of Iran - DO NOT KILL YOUR PROTESTERS. Thousands have already been killed or imprisoned by you, and the World is watching. More importantly, the USA is watching. Turn your internet back on and let reporters roam free! Stop the killing of your great Iranian people!

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4 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Doesn’t fit the narrative 

I don't think anyone is blaming Trump for the riots though...but if you really want to compare the words and reactions from POTUS...Obama's was far more measured towards peace and real change.

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5 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I believe there are both extreme right and left organizations at play in the violence.  I don't think they constitute a significant number in terms of people, but they are in terms of leading the pack, getting the crowd riled up, setting off the spark.  IMO it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to drive a riled up crowd to violence.

I think the goals are varied: start a race war, prove that certain people are "sub-human", shine a light on injustices,  being about a civil war, or generally cause chaos.  Don't think for a second that these flames arent being fanned by international bad actors looking to destabilize us.

Exactly...which was the point of my post and links...that it isn't just far left wing activists as some have claimed. 

 

Edited by sho nuff
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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

🤔

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

To the leaders of Iran - DO NOT KILL YOUR PROTESTERS. Thousands have already been killed or imprisoned by you, and the World is watching. More importantly, the USA is watching. Turn your internet back on and let reporters roam free! Stop the killing of your great Iranian people!

ZINGER!!!!!!!!!!¡

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7 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Doesn’t fit the narrative 

 

9 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

He had Ferguson and Baltimore happen during his terms.   Not claiming those are his fault just like Minnesota isn't Trump's fault.   Police brutality is the fault of the police and the courts that go light on those cops that do commit crimes.

 

Did y'all read my post? I literally wrote that cjw had a fair point and "talk is cheap." 

Edited by whoknew
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Spent the day at the DC marches yesterday. It was mostly peaceful, respectful. Angry at times, but definitely peaceful. We had a hiccup at one point after a group gathered at the Lincoln for some speeches and hugs, on our way back to the White House.  We were still on constitution, getting ready to cross. Around 20th or 21st. There was some commotion immediately in front of us. When we got to the crosswalk, it looked like the police were pulli  by someone out of the crowd. Not sure why. The crowd suddenly surged forward (“let him go!” “Don’t let the police car out!”). I turned and shoved my daughter towards the back and told her to head to a tree we just passed, and then got knocked off my feet. I landed in a pile along with the officer and the guy they were trying to arrest. People were pulling the guys legs to get him out. One furious and huge police came flying in shoving people off. I was still tangled with the guy on the ground, and we both got to our feet around the same time, as the crowd surged again. The guy took off like a gosh darned gazelle. He still had his hands cuffed behind his back. Some other folks tried to stay with him but he was like Usdain Bolt running against a bunch of third graders. As god is my witness, someone yelled “run Forrest!”  He went back in the direction of the Lincoln. 
 

Then things got a little silly - 

I searched for my daughter, who was taking pictures from the tree when the branch she was standing in broke. She landed in a pile of guys who were in the process of getting pepper sprayed. So she got a little taste of it and was coughing and hacking. When I found her, she was kneeling down and some guys who we had been walking next to were pouring water In her eyes. 
 

She got some great shot of the police pepper spraying right before the branch broke. 
 

We had both shared our location with my sister, who was monitoring us from afar. When she saw that we got separated, my phone started blowing up with my sister yelling at me. My kid was energized and wanted to take one more walk past the White House before going home. 
 

the crowd at the WH had grown pretty huge by then. People throwing water bottles into the line of police. Someone threw a REALLY loud firework type thing into the police line, and it went off with a huge BANG! 
 

That was enough for me. And I dragged her home, all the while she was hyped-up and yelling at me for making us leave (“we need to be there dad!  To help.  I HAVE WATER AND A FIRST AID KIT!”). Sorry sweetie, this is where we get off the crazy train. 

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Oh, from my experience in DC - Almost exclusively the black folks of all ages were leading chants related to police killings (“say their names” and “hands up don’t shoot”). The Young white people in the crowd had a more angry feel (“burn it all down”). 

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7 minutes ago, Sweet J said:

Spent the day at the DC marches yesterday. It was mostly peaceful, respectful. Angry at times, but definitely peaceful. We had a hiccup at one point after a group gathered at the Lincoln for some speeches and hugs, on our way back to the White House.  We were still on constitution, getting ready to cross. Around 20th or 21st. There was some commotion immediately in front of us. When we got to the crosswalk, it looked like the police were pulli  by someone out of the crowd. Not sure why. The crowd suddenly surged forward (“let him go!” “Don’t let the police car out!”). I turned and shoved my daughter towards the back and told her to head to a tree we just passed, and then got knocked off my feet. I landed in a pile along with the officer and the guy they were trying to arrest. People were pulling the guys legs to get him out. One furious and huge police came flying in shoving people off. I was still tangled with the guy on the ground, and we both got to our feet around the same time, as the crowd surged again. The guy took off like a gosh darned gazelle. He still had his hands cuffed behind his back. Some other folks tried to stay with him but he was like Usdain Bolt running against a bunch of third graders. As god is my witness, someone yelled “run Forrest!”  He went back in the direction of the Lincoln. 
 

Then things got a little silly - 

I searched for my daughter, who was taking pictures from the tree when the branch she was standing in broke. She landed in a pile of guys who were in the process of getting pepper sprayed. So she got a little taste of it and was coughing and hacking. When I found her, she was kneeling down and some guys who we had been walking next to were pouring water In her eyes. 
 

She got some great shot of the police pepper spraying right before the branch broke. 
 

We had both shared our location with my sister, who was monitoring us from afar. When she saw that we got separated, my phone started blowing up with my sister yelling at me. My kid was energized and wanted to take one more walk past the White House before going home. 
 

the crowd at the WH had grown pretty huge by then. People throwing water bottles into the line of police. Someone threw a REALLY loud firework type thing into the police line, and it went off with a huge BANG! 
 

That was enough for me. And I dragged her home, all the while she was hyped-up and yelling at me for making us leave (“we need to be there dad!  To help.  I HAVE WATER AND A FIRST AID KIT!”). Sorry sweetie, this is where we get off the crazy train. 

Whoa. 

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25 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

I just have no idea what the solution is.....and it seems everyone is saying that. 

Acknowledgement that there is a problem is a start but imo there is no quick solution to these issues.  I think these issues are deeply rooted in systemic racism perpetuated by unconscious bias’.  We all have bias’ but acknowledging that we do is important.  That ensures we dont act on them irrationally based on nothing but… this bias.  I know some police forces for example have attempted to do some training around this.  

Now solving this is a whole other issue.  Changing Bias’ takes time and is likely a precursor to changing the systems.  Like a long time.  More importantly, it takes integration.  Constant.   It takes people from all walks of like interacting often whether that is at the grocery store, in school, where they live, at work, at different socio-econimic levels, etc.  So people can form their opinions about a person based on real interactions and not what they saw on the news or a rap video.  One of my best friends today lived next door to me in college my freshman year.  I was the first black person he had every spoken to.  Not due to his fault, that's just how his town was.  There weren’t any black people there.  But since then we have hung out alot, met each others families, etc.  Now he is very conservative still and we will never agree on politics which is ok, but he does acknowledge his bias’ which to me is progress.  

But how do we do this integration?  Thats the real question.  People have worked extremely hard historically to discourage this.  Even to this day.  Programs that have tried were rallied against.   But i think its the only way.  And if we can better integrate and interact and discuss things like this, overtime this bias’ may change or at least be acknowledged which may help strip down some of the systemic racism that continues to impact this country. 

I need to take a break now. But that is at least my idea on how to solve this. 

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Far-Right Extremists Are Hoping to Turn the George Floyd Protests Into a New Civil War

Armed extremists are showing up to protests and urging a "boogaloo" – code for civil war – online.

Far-right extremists are showing up, with guns, to the protests against police brutality that have exploded across the country.

Others are egging on the violence from behind their computers, urging followers to carry out acts of violence against black protesters with the goal of sparking a “race war.”

Their presence makes an uneasy addition to the escalating unrest, which was triggered by the death of George Floyd, a black man who was choked to death by a white Minneapolis police officer earlier this week.

But there’s a range of motivations that’s driving far-right interest toward the protests, which are being led by community members and Black Lives Matter, and bolstered by antifascists.

For example, the so-called Boogaloo Bois — a group of armed anti-government extremists made visible by their Hawaiian shirts — have reportedly shown up to some of the protests.

The “boogaloo” is code for impending civil war or violent confrontation with law enforcement, and that’s what they’re hoping to get out of the protests. Their main reason for being there is their antipathy toward law enforcement, and so they’re trying to position themselves as allies of Black Lives Matter protesters. They’ve made police brutality one of their central issues, which was explored at length in a Bellingcat article this week.

Their approach to police brutality links the victims of the deadly standoff with federal agents at Ruby Ridge in 1992, to the victims of modern police brutality, including Floyd. But unlike the vast majority of protesters, they refuse to acknowledge the fact that police brutality is an issue that disproportionately impacts people of color.

There have been scattered reports of Boogaloo Bois’ presence at the protests, which were compiled by a Bellingcat investigative journalist in a thread. He includes an audio clip (stripped of video per activists’ requests) of protesters saying they’d wrestled a handgun from a “white nationalist” agitator — whom he describes as a Boogaloo Boi who became overly rowdy.

Another photo, shared across private Boogaloo Facebook pages, showed one of their own unfurling their trademark flag during the Minneapolis protests.

And one protester posted a picture of himself wearing a gas mask to Instagram, under the hashtag #Boogaloo.

While some Boogaloo Bois say they’re just libertarians, others will, on occasion, veer into racism — and make no secret of their desire for violence. In addition to their physical presence at the protests, the #boogaloo hashtag on social media has been flooded with memes in the last couple days egging on violence, and talking about how they hope this is the beginning of a civil war.

While more established militia types sometimes share those perspectives, they often view themselves as intermediaries between law enforcement and civilians. For example, two armed white men were interviewed by the Minnesota Reformer, a local independent news organization, outside a tobacco store in Minneapolis this week. They said they were protecting businesses from looters, but were also there to defend civilians should they need to.

“Cops are less likely to tread on people’s rights when there’s other armed people around them,” one of the men told the interviewer.

Local activists identified another group in Minneapolis as members of the III% militia, one of the largest militia networks in the U.S.

But perhaps the most troubling of all are the hardcore “accelerationists” who are encouraging their neo-Nazi followers to go to the protests and carry out acts of violence against black people — all with the goal of “exacerbating the ethnic tensions” and sparking a “race war.”

Accelerationists promote violence to speed up the collapse of society. An eco-fascist Telegram channel wrote to its nearly 2,500 subscribers on Thursday that “a riot would be the perfect place to commit a murder.” Accelerationists often seek to exploit moments of political or civil unrest, and the widespread protests that have unfolded across the country fit the bill. Similarly, 4chan is full of racists cheering the violence and saying that they hope it’s the beginning of a “race war.”

This article originally appeared on VICE US.

 

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6 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

 One of my best friends today lived next door to me in college my freshman year.  I was the first black person he had every spoken to.  Not due to his fault, that's just how his town was.  There weren’t any black people there.  But since then we have hung out alot, met each others families, etc.  Now he is very conservative still and we will never agree on politics which is ok, but he does acknowledge his bias’ which to me is progress.  

Obviously I cannot relate personally but a similar thing happened to my cousin. He was one of only two black students at his high school of 2000 students. Now he doesn’t say that he was ever treated poorly, just felt different. Definitely felt like an outsider even though he was an all-state wrestler, an all-state football player, and has an outgoing, charismatic personality. Again, not really anyone’s fault, but an experience I can only imagine. 

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47 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

That picture is actually what I’m getting at.  Everyone is pissed off, and rightfully so. But very few have provided any type of solutions. Simply saying, don’t be racist, doesn’t improve the situation.

There aren't solutions outside of generational change and it's never going to happen as quickly as it needs to.  This is a moral issue and attempting to legislate it will fail every time.  I guess there's a small bit of comfort to some that people are attempting to do "something" when they see the alternative of doing nothing or making it worse by pouring gas on the fire?

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1 hour ago, Kal El said:

George Floyd did nothing worthy of death at the hands of a punk with a badge. Fix the system!

what's wrong with the system ? specifically what's wrong with it ?

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

what's wrong with the system ? specifically what's wrong with it ?

 Your answer to that question depends largely on your experiences with the system.

Your experiences with the system depend, largely, on the color of your skin.  That seems like a problem.

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8 minutes ago, moleculo said:

While more established militia types sometimes share those perspectives, they often view themselves as intermediaries between law enforcement and civilians. For example, two armed white men were interviewed by the Minnesota Reformer, a local independent news organization, outside a tobacco store in Minneapolis this week. They said they were protecting businesses from looters, but were also there to defend civilians should they need to.

“Cops are less likely to tread on people’s rights when there’s other armed people around them,” one of the men told the interviewer.

I dont understand how the author fits these guys in there. It was 4 guys. Two white and two black. Makes me think he didnt even watch the whole clip to see that. 

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

what's wrong with the system ? specifically what's wrong with it ?

It consistently protects and defends the acts of cops like Chauvin (please no posts of "link to someone defending him for this"...that isn't what I am saying and you all know this)...this wasn't the first time he has been an issue.  The system is broken in that it has led to such interactions still far too often in this country and far too often at the expense of a young black man.  Showing that while we have progressed with race relations, we still have a long long way to go.

 

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