Yep. The GOP has abandoned their ideology in service to Trump so there is no room for policy discussion. The policies don't matter anymore.Exhibit A of why there is no discussionOf course, I used to always think you were one of those
Ideological conservatism is mostly dead. It is all personality based/cultural conservatism now.
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Another killing at the hands of the Police (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter In The Zone
- Start date
Sweet J
Footballguy
Rex Chapman is a GREAT follow on Twitter.
by the way, I just recently signed up for twitter. It would be great to follow some folks. I have my real name as my twitter handle (mistake?) so I’m not posting here. Shoot me a dm if you want a follow
sporthenry
Footballguy
Is it? I mean when you listen to the protesters, they don't seem to have a coherent message. They do seem to move the goalposts so seems like a singular factor would be too simplistic. I know it's been covered ad nauseam about the various charges but even if they arrest them, they likely won't like the charges brought against the other officers so they'll protest that.
timschochet
Footballguy
I can’t speak for others but I NEVER claim either side is good or evil. I don’t believe that. I do argue that people or groups are right or wrong. In terms of systemic racism in the police in this country, I am firmly convinced that most liberals are right in intent (though not necessarily in solution) and most conservatives are wrong in not recognizing how widespread it actually is.
dkp993
Footballguy
Yeah that video is pure leadership.
Agree @PinkydaPimp is spot on in his thoughts. I was telling my wife 2 nights ago, who grew up in a very small town in Minnesota and had exact opposite experience growing up I did, that I find myself as extremely lucky growing up in San Diego. It’s very much a melting pot of a city and I’ve been lucky to have very good friends of every race, creed, color, sex and sexual orientation my entire life. I was also the only white face in my neighborhood as a young kid so I also know what it’s like to be the one labeled “different”. These experiences were foundational to my understanding of just how much we are all far more alike then any superficial differences we may have.
timschochet
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Don't know if it's true, but someone posted here that you can't charge as accomplices to murder if the primary charge is 3rd degree.
Still seems like there should be valid charges beyond just accomplice to murder. Also seems like at least 2nd degree should be in play, if parts of the charging doc are accurate.
Galileo
Footballguy
Born in 1974...Mrs. Minnesota 2018? That seems rather old for a pageant contestant.
dkp993
Footballguy
Flat not true. Covid is still dominating my life/lively hood as it is for millions of people. You can be worried about 2 things at the same time.
Jobber
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
giantcookie
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Yikes...page 177 of this thread is pretty disgusting.
shader
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
Thanks, this makes some sense but includes broad generalizations about people and not very specific on solutions.
I am nominating you to start two threads (somewhat tongue in cheek, but I know you like this stuff)
One, an analysis of the data around policing, effectiveness, data quantification of racism and the impact of it. I honestly think this is less important but it is what inflames these situations so needs to be discussed Policing can be improved. Racism/bias exists. I’m not sure if it is a 3 or 9 on the Richter scale matters. One death, black or white, shouldn’t be accepted without examination.
So, second, what would be the set of actions/policies to enact to improve policing.
Trump, pelosi, Biden,, Democrat, republican and all similar words can’t be used. They are not data points. They are not policy.
I think this would be a thread Joe would like to see. I don’t think it can be done.
I didnt see any right wing groups, I'm sure you could find a unicorn or two, but by in large these were anti-cop left wing extremists. Antifa anarchists. Why does that matter? The left cant do what it always wants to do, blame Trump. These are yours.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Giveme a break. Its spray painted everywhere. ACAB. F 12. These are antifa anarchists.
giantcookie
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
mcintyre1
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
Man, that's tough to watch. Reminds me of another video I watched recently where the police stood by and did nothing in the face of unnecessary violence against another human being. Except that guy died....
GROOT
Footballguy
mcintyre1
Footballguy
Also, please stop giving Andy Ngo any air on these matters. He's been shown to work with right wing extremist organizations to biased clips showing them as victims in encounters which they instigate.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
What more do you need to see on the video? The video is the video. Just insinuating that guy instigated a fight with over a dozen guys is asinine.
Many Bundesliga players have done tributes to the US protests this weekend. Frenchman Marcus Thuram took a knee after scoring yesterday and Englishman Jadon Sancho displayed a "Justice for George Floyd" message on his undershirt after scoring his first goal today. Sancho just scored another goal as I typed this
GoBirds
Footballguy
GROOT
Footballguy
JbizzleMan
Footballguy
Protests outside the US Embassy in London too.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1267146480051240962?s=20
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1267146480051240962?s=20
GROOT
Footballguy
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BassNBrew
Footballguy
yeah...if you can't control yourself as an adult, go dose yourself into a state that will change your behavior. Oh, and let me bribe you to behave at 19.
Geezzzz......there really is no hope for this country.
The General
Footballguy
Holy triple post. Board software isn’t happy this morn.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
It appears the point is nobody appears interested on moving it forward. That attempts have been few and far between.
Edit...reading more i see Saints also further explained and you both see it without getting chippy. Good stuff. Kudos
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giantcookie
Footballguy
im fully behind you on that. George Floyd was a wonderful man, and he did not deserved what happened.
Those cops involved all need to spend the rest of their lives in jail.
Antifa using that tragedy to incite riots when people just wanted to peacefully protest is wrong.
George Floyd was honorable and would not have wanted innocent people to die or get hurt, or have black people or any people to have their business destroyed.
Do you disagree with any of that?
timschochet
Footballguy
IMO, this word is as bad as subhuman.
I used scum to describe Antifa last night and I felt bad about it after. Subhuman and vermin are worse. That’s why when I later posted about Maxine Waters I wrote that she was a wretched human being. That’s about as bad as I’m going to go from now on (short of actual murderers, rapists, child abusers, etc- they are evil.)
The General
Footballguy
Fixing posts. Can you not delete from the mobile version?
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The General
Footballguy
Anyone starting violence like that is wrong obviously.
From a practical standpoint how can police handle that situation? I didn’t even see any cops in the picture first off but if they run into a mob like that it can escalate into a disaster really quick.
Once these giant crowds form police seem to be more about dispersing the mob by pushing the mobs back en masse.
It’s such a fragile situation when it gets to this point.
They have good pics of the guy who started the punching. Hopefully these types of people are dealt with at some point.
timschochet
Footballguy
It can be done. I’ve done it before for a few topics including illegal immigration.
But it’s pointless, IMO, not to mention real life politicians because they are the ones who are carrying out policy in real time.
Maybe we’ll do it again for this topic. It’s impossible to avoid trolls, but intelligent discussion can be had. Even this thread has been productive at times.
But I wish someone else would start one of these threads. I am obviously very opinionated and that has caused me to be a target for many people here who disagree with me. I don’t mind that but it makes me a rotten host. If you or someone else would do it I would gladly participate.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Not bad. I have no use for Antifa but I can understand their existence. I hate white nationalists, nazis, kkk, skinheads, proud boys and all the other pukes out there adding to this mayhem and engaging with Antifa in acts of violence too. Their existence I understand less. Even less down the line of my ability to comprehend is Trump's refusal to condem or call out these pukes while at the same time calling Antifa a terrorist organization. Do you disagree with any of that?
ren hoek
Footballguy
This assumes that ameliorating public outrage is more important to them than reinforcing their monopoly on violence.
timschochet
Footballguy
1. There’s been reports on TV of right wing groups. I don’t care enough to follow up on them. If you want to insist it’s all left wing, fine. I don’t know what kind of prize that gets you.
2. I don’t blame Trump for this mess. I do have some criticisms for him over the way he’s reacting and the way he has responded to this issue in the past, and I think those criticisms are reasonable. It would be unreasonable to lay the blame on him. It would also be unreasonable to attempt to absolve him of all responsibility for what happens now: he is the President and the worst riots ever, in terms of their collective nature, are happening under his watch.
timschochet
Footballguy
I never keep score. If President Trump does 10 bad things in a row I may comment on all ten but I never add them up. If he does a good thing I will try to comment on that too- I praised him only Friday for his decision and statement on Hong Kong.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
So wait, I'm actually confused on this one. What exactly is the disgusting part? Sounds like it's a black man working with another black man and a white man to "assemble barricades." Pretty typical protest stuff for when you expect to get shot at by rubber bullets and tear gas.
timschochet
Footballguy
No it doesn’t. But you sure look at human society very differently than I do. I guess we both knew that already.
djmich
Footballguy
The politicians / politics of it could be step three, you are right it’s an important part of the puzzle. But it would be great if it was about how to get change constructively (not easy)
I understand you not wanting to start it, I’m not sure I have the stamina but will look to throw the topic out there this week.
giantcookie
Footballguy
I agree that those are all bad groups, I disagree they are the ones doing this. Its antifa. Media has been very kind to antifa for years, so it makes sense why they'd want to shift the blame to other groups.
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mcintyre1
Footballguy
Hearing from some friends that still live in Nebraska about something that might spark things there -- last night a bar owner in Omaha shot and killed a 22 year old black man who was at the protest. I've seen claims that he was tagging the business, but I have no confirmation of the exact situation. The bar owner was brought in by police but released without charges -- seeing now that the shooter is "in custody" but no details of charges. Nebraska is not a "castle doctrine" state and there is a duty to retreat before employing deadly force.
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