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Another killing at the hands of the Police (6 Viewers)

Just got done eating dinner and I ask my wife is there anything you want to watch tonight?  Thinking we will watch a couple Ozarks and she says "Yes, I want to watch the riots"  like it is a series. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
So nothing to actually quell the violence directly?
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Theoretically, as you know, if the states request it, the President can deploy the military. I would not be in favor of that, but it can happen. And the step before that should be the national guard.

I've no idea why you are being so obtuse about this. You know these answers. Also - I thought you were a libertarian.

 
And those of you who think this sort of thing won’t help Trump I can only point you to American history: Nixon demanded law and order. As the protests continued, Nixon threatened to send out the military. Then at Kent State University national guardsmen actually fired into a peaceful crowd and killed 4 students. Nixon made excuses and refused to prosecute the soldiers and defended them. The nation was disgusted and shocked...AND THEN RE-ELECTED NIXON IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. 
These are not facts that please me. They suggest an America exists out there which is not one that I enjoy believing in. But facts are facts. Have we matured as a nation since those days? Guess we’ll find out....

 
timschochet said:
And those of you who think this sort of thing won’t help Trump I can only point you to American history: Nixon demanded law and order. As the protests continued, Nixon threatened to send out the military. Then at Kent State University national guardsmen actually fired into a peaceful crowd and killed 4 students. Nixon made excuses and refused to prosecute the soldiers and defended them. The nation was disgusted and shocked...AND THEN RE-ELECTED NIXON IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. 
These are not facts that please me. They suggest an America exists out there which is not one that I enjoy believing in. But facts are facts. Have we matured as a nation since those days? Guess we’ll find out....
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I wasn't around to witness it, but I'm assuming Nixon at least sounded competent and was able to string complete sentences together, huge difference between him and Trump

 
Da Guru said:
Just got done eating dinner and I ask my wife is there anything you want to watch tonight?  Thinking we will watch a couple Ozarks and she says "Yes, I want to watch the riots"  like it is a series. 
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Eh, I’d suggest Ozark, it’s not as depressing 🙁

 
timschochet said:
And those of you who think this sort of thing won’t help Trump I can only point you to American history: Nixon demanded law and order. As the protests continued, Nixon threatened to send out the military. Then at Kent State University national guardsmen actually fired into a peaceful crowd and killed 4 students. Nixon made excuses and refused to prosecute the soldiers and defended them. The nation was disgusted and shocked...AND THEN RE-ELECTED NIXON IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. 
These are not facts that please me. They suggest an America exists out there which is not one that I enjoy believing in. But facts are facts. Have we matured as a nation since those days? Guess we’ll find out....
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I bet Nixon knew which side of the Bible was right side up though.  Nixon was actually competent.

 
whoknew said:
Theoretically, as you know, if the states request it, the President can deploy the military. I would not be in favor of that, but it can happen. And the step before that should be the national guard.

I've no idea why you are being so obtuse about this. You know these answers. Also - I thought you were a libertarian.
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I'm just confused what people want Trump to do other than say the right words.

And if that's all they want, I think that's naive. Because I believe.he's both incapable of doing so and that it wouldn't matter if he was because the rioters wouldn't listen. They're not even listening to the people you'd normally think they'd respect.

 
timschochet said:
And those of you who think this sort of thing won’t help Trump I can only point you to American history: Nixon demanded law and order. As the protests continued, Nixon threatened to send out the military. Then at Kent State University national guardsmen actually fired into a peaceful crowd and killed 4 students. Nixon made excuses and refused to prosecute the soldiers and defended them. The nation was disgusted and shocked...AND THEN RE-ELECTED NIXON IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. 
These are not facts that please me. They suggest an America exists out there which is not one that I enjoy believing in. But facts are facts. Have we matured as a nation since those days? Guess we’ll find out....
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Seems like a bit of a leap, is there evidence that the handling of Kent St impacted the election? Kent State was in May of 1970 and the election more than 2 years later...

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'm just confused what people want Trump to do other than say the right words.

And if that's all they want, I think that's naive. Because I believe.he's both incapable of doing so and that it wouldn't matter if he was because the rioters wouldn't listen. They're not even listening to the people you'd normally think they'd respect.
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Exactly

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'm just confused what people want Trump to do other than say the right words.

And if that's all they want, I think that's naive. Because I believe.he's both incapable of doing so and that it wouldn't matter if he was because the rioters wouldn't listen. They're not even listening to the people you'd normally think they'd respect.
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Cowboysfan8 said:
Exactly
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So you agree that Trump is incapable of saying the right things? 

 
Frank Luntz asked Donald Trump "have you ever asked God for forgiveness?" at The FAMiLY Leadership Summit on 7/18/15 at Stephens Auditorium in Ames, IA.(keep in mind this is before the "religious" right decided he was their savior): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKLVIm7Q0IQ

"If I do something wrong I think I just try to make it right. I don't bring God into that picture."

OMG SO POWERFUL

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'm just confused what people want Trump to do other than say the right words.

And if that's all they want, I think that's naive. Because I believe.he's both incapable of doing so and that it wouldn't matter if he was because the rioters wouldn't listen. They're not even listening to the people you'd normally think they'd respect.
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Right.  He sucks.

Minnesota government allowed it to blow up by stepping back on intervention.  They enabled it to happen to begin with through their terrible administration of the police force that allowed this idiot to be a cop.  And then the subsequent handling of the arrest (or lack of) immediately afterward.  They completely fugged up. 

But Trump.  

 
sporthenry said:
I get cops are in a tough spot. I've spoken to that in here. This is just a lose-lose situation for them. 

But the Federal government can de-escalate situations without the use of law enforcement. That is what I hoped. To reach out a hand and start to move the discussion forward. Instead, he just reignited things. Pretty much saying we won't be bullied which in some cases, can be viewed as a pissing contest between the President and the protesters. I think he is supposed to be the bigger man but he's never been that. 
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I remember the Bundy’s and their crew that came from all over pointing guns at fed LE (over land grazing rights, not being at risk of being mowed down by cops with often no repercussions). I also remember the great birdhouse occupation that lasted a few months. I think one death resulted as a result of one of the righties trying to ram an FBI agent. 

Only one death. Some serious restraint. Things were different then (and, of course, they were white). But, both sides and all that (and I get that nationwide looting/pillaging is different). Principle remains though.

I hope the real protesters stay safe and avoid this ####. And shame....for the umpteenth time...on the fraud that is masquerading as our president.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'm just confused what people want Trump to do other than say the right words.

And if that's all they want, I think that's naive. Because I believe.he's both incapable of doing so and that it wouldn't matter if he was because the rioters wouldn't listen. They're not even listening to the people you'd normally think they'd respect.
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I honestly believe he could make things better by saying something along the lines of :

"Look, I understand why people are angry. I feel your pain. I'm angry too. Change is needed, but please - this is not the way to go about it. I'm going to create a task force to investigate racism and unnecessary force in law enforcement offices across the nation. Systemic racism is wrong and must be stamped out. I'm asking all the citizens of this great nation to work with me to stop the cycle of violence. Put down your weapons, stop burning your own country. Well get through this together. "

ANYTHING like that. Not 'I'll deploy the military to dominate if I have to." Would it fix everything? No. Might it help? Maybe. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
What do we want the federal branch to do about law enforcement in this situation?

Is there anything that wouldn't be viewed as "totalitarian dictatorship police state alert!"?
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I don't like federalizing law enforcement either.  I really sort of hate it.  But let's face it.  When GHWB called up the military to contain the LA riots, nobody thought it was a move toward totalitarianism because it was GHWB.  Trump rightly doesn't get that benefit of the doubt.  Whatever the opposite of the benefit of the doubt is, he's earned that.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Can you link to someone saying this?  I've literally never encountered anybody like you're describing.
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Hey, I know I've replied to this comment before however there have been posters on pages 198, 197, maybe 196 (they're moving fast now) that appear to have no shame in calling for violence, or as the Congressman says, to hunt down Americans on American soil, and posters have agreed. While the joke is, "they are saying the quiet parts out loud now," those quiet things being said are becoming less and less funny as the days go by.

Stuart_Little said:
Matt Gaetz@mattgaetz

Now that we clearly see Antifa as terrorists, can we hunt them down like we do those in the Middle East?
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Get It.......At Porky's said:
I honestly believe he could make things better by saying something along the lines of :

"Look, I understand why people are angry. I feel your pain. I'm angry too. Change is needed, but please - this is not the way to go about it. I'm going to create a task force to investigate racism and unnecessary force in law enforcement offices across the nation. Systemic racism is wrong and must be stamped out. I'm asking all the citizens of this great nation to work with me to stop the cycle of violence. Put down your weapons, stop burning your own country. Well get through this together. "

ANYTHING like that. Not 'I'll deploy the military to dominate if I have to." Would it fix everything? No. Might it help? Maybe. 
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https://images.app.goo.gl/UdcEfNG3CG23RCBH9

 
Get It.......At Porky's said:
I honestly believe he could make things better by saying something along the lines of :

"Look, I understand why people are angry. I feel your pain. I'm angry too. Change is needed, but please - this is not the way to go about it. I'm going to create a task force to investigate racism and unnecessary force in law enforcement offices across the nation. Systemic racism is wrong and must be stamped out. I'm asking all the citizens of this great nation to work with me to stop the cycle of violence. Put down your weapons, stop burning your own country. Well get through this together. "

ANYTHING like that. Not 'I'll deploy the military to dominate if I have to." Would it fix everything? No. Might it help? Maybe. 
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The problem is, if he said anything resembling this, it would likely damage his chances at re-election. He can't have that. 

 
timschochet said:
And those of you who think this sort of thing won’t help Trump I can only point you to American history: Nixon demanded law and order. As the protests continued, Nixon threatened to send out the military. Then at Kent State University national guardsmen actually fired into a peaceful crowd and killed 4 students. Nixon made excuses and refused to prosecute the soldiers and defended them. The nation was disgusted and shocked...AND THEN RE-ELECTED NIXON IN A HUGE LANDSLIDE. 
These are not facts that please me. They suggest an America exists out there which is not one that I enjoy believing in. But facts are facts. Have we matured as a nation since those days? Guess we’ll find out....
Click to expand...
As you well know, Nixon was an extremely talented politician.  You can toss all sorts of criticism his way, but the guy was highly competent.  Trump is. . . not.

 
Challenge Everything said:
Hey, I know I've replied to this comment before however there have been posters on pages 198, 197, maybe 196 (they're moving fast now) that appear to have no shame in calling for violence, or as the Congressman says, to hunt down Americans on American soil, and posters have agreed. While the joke is, "they are saying the quiet parts out loud now," those quiet things being said are becoming less and less funny as the days go by.
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I asked you about people saying they would riot if Trump was not reelected, and you're giving me quotes from folks who (rightly IMO) want to take a more aggressive stance toward antifa larpers.  Come on.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I don't like federalizing law enforcement either.  I really sort of hate it.  But let's face it.  When GHWB called up the military to contain the LA riots, nobody thought it was a move toward totalitarianism because it was GHWB.  Trump rightly doesn't get that benefit of the doubt.  Whatever the opposite of the benefit of the doubt is, he's earned that.
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Well yeah. That's why it's wrong to simultaneously say Trump isn't doing enough to stop the rioting but he better not deploy federal troops.

And it's folly to say that the right words will stop any of this.

 
bigbottom said:
People hate on Leviticus, but I find it pretty interesting. For Trump, 2 John has to be his clear favorite, right?  (Not sure whether Bible humor has much reach in the PSF.)
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I know you're being funny, but can you imagine if he walked up to that church, opened his Bible, read 2 John, and said, "Starting with me, I'd like to encourage every American to commit to living out those words"?  But, that's not him.

I should say, the part about love.  :)  

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
I don't like federalizing law enforcement either.  I really sort of hate it.  But let's face it.  When GHWB called up the military to contain the LA riots, nobody thought it was a move toward totalitarianism because it was GHWB.  Trump rightly doesn't get that benefit of the doubt.  Whatever the opposite of the benefit of the doubt is, he's earned that.
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The governor of California (I want to say it was Pete Wilson) asked Bush to do it. Trump is claiming he’ll do it even if the governors don’t ask for it. Big difference. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Well yeah. That's why it's wrong to simultaneously say Trump isn't doing enough to stop the rioting but he better not deploy federal troops.

And it's folly to say that the right words will stop any of this.
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Okay, I get all that.  And I definitely agree with the last sentence.  There are no magical words that are going to suddenly make everything better.

My problem is that this president actively makes everything worse.  I bumped into one of my colleagues today who I hadn't seen in a long time, and naturally we got to talking about covid-19 and how none of this is really Trump's fault in some existential sense, but his active involvement made the situation worse.  If he had sat back and done nothing -- go play golf -- while the experts did their job, we would be marginally better off than we are today.

This is the same thing.  Doing nothing would be better than making inflammatory tweets and berating governors for not being militaristic enough.  I know you and I agree on the general contours of these riots, but it just seems to me that Trump is not at all helpful here.  He certainly doesn't have the political capital to do what Bush did, and that's really all on him.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Made it worse? No. I don't think people heard Trump and decided, "Well NOW it's time to get serious about this!l
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Listen to this MAGA "life coach" with 500k+ followers for one minute (seriously, it's one minute) about "waiting for the green light from the President". I don't know that what Trump said will make a difference, but if it does I do know that it will be in the wrong direction: https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1267537669086752770

Andy Dufresne said:
 Deuteronomy 20:10-17 for the win.
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10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

:unsure:

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I don't like federalizing law enforcement either.  I really sort of hate it.  But let's face it.  When GHWB called up the military to contain the LA riots, nobody thought it was a move toward totalitarianism because it was GHWB.  Trump rightly doesn't get that benefit of the doubt.  Whatever the opposite of the benefit of the doubt is, he's earned that.
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Yeah, he's had three years to unify the country behind him and he hasn't made the slightest effort.

But we should also point out that today's electorate has changed substantially since Bush One's time. The country isn't nearly as center right as it was then. Donald's narrow election win has made getting a mandate almost impossible for him.

 
facook said:
I know you're being funny, but can you imagine if he walked up to that church, opened his Bible, read 2 John, and said, "Starting with me, I'd like to encourage every American to commit to living out those words"?  But, that's not him.
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I’ve only heard him read from the Bible once, and it was horribly awkward (the “two corinthians” moment at Liberty University. I definitely can’t imagine him doing what you reference.

But, yeah, I was just trying to make a joke about his favorite book being the shortest one, at around 300 words total. 

 
Birmingham Mayor Randall Woodfin doesn't seem to be bluffing.  Curfew started here 10 min ago and Bham Police are rounding up folks in Linn Park right now.

 
Stuart_Little said:
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

:unsure:
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I think you got the joke.

But to be clear, this was in response to the idea that Trump should just open up and read. I think that verse would have been epic in such a circumstance.

 
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