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Another killing at the hands of the Police


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Members 16,204 31,897 posts Gender:Not Telling Report post Posted 4 minutes ago I have been contacted by several posters for my thoughts.  I struggled with coming back ev

The entire written statement from General Mattis should be required reading:

Spent the day at the DC marches yesterday. It was mostly peaceful, respectful. Angry at times, but definitely peaceful. We had a hiccup at one point after a group gathered at the Lincoln for some spee

FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence (in DC)

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The FBI report, however, states, “based on CHS [Confidential Human Source] canvassing, open source/social media partner engagement, and liaison, FBI WFO has no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence.” The statement followed a list of violent acts like bricks being thrown at police and a backpack containing explosive materials, which were flagged by the FBI under a “Key Updates” section of the report. The FBI has been issuing such reports daily since the weekend, according to an FBI source, who added that none of these documents contained any evidence of Antifa violence.

The report did warn that individuals from a far-right social media group had “called for far-right provocateurs to attack federal agents, use automatic weapons against protesters.” (The Nation is withholding the name of the group in order to not disrupt any potential law enforcement investigations.)
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The report, marked “For Official Use Only,” was provided to The Nation by an FBI official on the condition of anonymity. The report is titled, “Civil Unrest in Washington AOR [Area of Responsibility] Following Death of George Floyd.” The report’s reference to “CHS” suggests that the Bureau possesses secret informants participating in the protests.

 

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Just now, Slapdash said:

Who are you going to believe? Trump or your lying eyes?

I tend to live by some of the lyrics of "Heard it through the Grapevine": Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Even if my eyes actually lied to me, they've done it far less often than Trump has.

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12 hours ago, tonydead said:

People doubling down defending Antifa in here. It's what the left has become.apparently. 

MSNBC Nightly News about NYC: "Its an organized, well coordinated, criminal element."  

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Just now, Don't Noonan said:

Yep I watched that.  No tear gas.  Protesters were throwing stuff at police.

In that first video 30 seconds in there’s a loud bang and another loud bang and you turn around and see two huge cloud of smoke. That’s tear gas. 

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Just now, Don't Noonan said:

Yep I watched that.  No tear gas.  Protesters were throwing stuff at police.

After they were being pushed back...yes.  I dint think many claimed otherwise.

Those physically removed from church property were not doing such things 

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Just now, tonydead said:

Still with the photo op?  People's business are regularly being burned to the ground and that's what you are focused on. Good grief.  

We can talk about all of it actually.  Its not hard to do.

Like how the FBI is saying no sign of antifa in DC.

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3 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Yep I watched that.  No tear gas.  Protesters were throwing stuff at police.

Only a few hours ago you were defending the use of tear gas. Now you’re claiming there was no tear gas. Don’t you ever get tired of this? 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Only a few hours ago you were defending the use of tear gas. Now you’re claiming there was no tear gas. Don’t you ever get tired of this? 

What are you talking about?  I don't get tired of winning.  

Edited by Don't Noonan
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7 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

In that first video 30 seconds in there’s a loud bang and another loud bang and you turn around and see two huge cloud of smoke. That’s tear gas. 

No no, it's just mist.

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14 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

In that first video 30 seconds in there’s a loud bang and another loud bang and you turn around and see two huge cloud of smoke. That’s tear gas. 

But did you see anyone cry?  If no one cries, how can there be tears?  Further, there clearly is no gas station near by, so no gas.  If no tears, and no gas, there is no tear gas.  Boom.

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47 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

No tear gas for one

The protesters were not peaceful as well

Seems that the “no tear gas” thing may be a technicality. They admitted to using pepper balls that are similar in effect to tear gas, there were OC canisters found by journalists in the area which is a tear gas-“like” substance, and you can clearly see the yellow gas in some of the videos in that link that are clearly more than just smoke.

Also note that the Federalist article says that the police didn’t have gas masks which is clearly not true as you can see lots of officers with gas masks in many of the videos.

Edited by GroveDiesel
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4 minutes ago, whoknew said:

That's just so sad. 

And unnecessary.

A memorial of a man who set people free, and free people are barred from seeing it. The irony should not be lost on anyone here.

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Ok, time to fill some people in on what tear gas is. According to Wikipedia: "Tear gas, formally known as a lachrymator agent or lachrymator (from the Latin lacrima, meaning "tear"), sometimes colloquially known as mace,[NB 1] is a chemical weapon that causes severe eye and respiratory pain, skin irritation, bleeding, and blindness. In the eye, it stimulates the nerves of the lacrimal gland to produce tears. Common lachrymators include pepper spray (OC gas), PAVA spray (nonivamide), CS gas, CR gas, CN gas (phenacyl chloride), bromoacetone, xylyl bromide, syn-propanethial-S-oxide (from onions), and Mace (a branded mixture), and household vinegar."

Simply put, it's a mace grenade. Now for what pepper balls are, also from Wikipedia: "A pepper-spray projectile, also called a pepper-spray ball, pepper-ball or pepper-spray pellet is a frangible projectile containing a powdered chemical that irritates the eyes and nose in a manner similar to pepper spray. These projectiles are fired from specially designed forced compliance weapons or modified paintball guns."

That sounds like the same thing to me! They maced peaceful protesters, and there is denial that they did such, despite multiple confirmations from people in the crowd that it happened.

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I mean. Its so bad people are celebrating because it may have only been pepper spray  and smoke canisters to forcibly remove people including church personnel so that Trump could pander with a photo

Edited by sho nuff
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A letter to Defense Secretary Mark Esper

June 2, 2020

Hon. Mark T. Esper

Secretary of Defense

The Pentagon

Washington, D.C., 20301

Dear Secretary Esper,

I resign from the Defense Science Board, effective immediately.

 

When I joined the Board in early 2014, after leaving government service as Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, I again swore an oath of office, one familiar to you, that includes the commitment to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States . . . and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.”

You recited that same oath on July 23, 2019, when you were sworn in as Secretary of Defense. On Monday, June 1, 2020, I believe that you violated that oath. Law-abiding protesters just outside the White House were dispersed using tear gas and rubber bullets — not for the sake of safety, but to clear a path for a presidential photo op. You then accompanied President Trump in walking from the White House to St. John’s Episcopal Church for that photo.

President Trump’s actions Monday night violated his oath to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed,” as well as the First Amendment “right of the people peaceably to assemble.” You may not have been able to stop President Trump from directing this appalling use of force, but you could have chosen to oppose it. Instead, you visibly supported it.

Anyone who takes the oath of office must decide where he or she will draw the line: What are the things that they will refuse to do? Secretary Esper, you have served honorably for many years, in active and reserve military duty, as Secretary of the Army, and now as Secretary of Defense. You must have thought long and hard about where that line should be drawn. I must now ask: If last night’s blatant violations do not cross the line for you, what will?

Unfortunately, it appears there may be few if any lines that President Trump is not willing to cross, so you will probably be faced with this terrible question again in the coming days. You may be asked to take, or to direct the men and women serving in the U.S. military to take, actions that further undermine the Constitution and harm Americans.

As a concerned citizen, and as a former senior defense official who cares deeply about the military, I urge you to consider closely both your future actions and your future words. For example, some could interpret literally your suggestion to the nation’s governors Monday that they need to “dominate the battlespace.” I cannot believe that you see the United States as a “battlespace,” or that you believe our citizens must be “dominated.” Such language sends an extremely dangerous signal.

You have made life-and-death decisions in combat overseas; soon you may be asked to make life-and-death decisions about using the military on American streets and against Americans. Where will you draw the line, and when will you draw it?

I hope this letter of resignation will encourage you to again contemplate the obligations you undertook in your oath of office, as well as your obligations to the men and women in our military and other Americans whose lives may be at stake. In the event that at least some other senior officials may be inclined to ask these questions after reading this letter, I am making it public.

I wish you the best, in very difficult times. The sanctity of the U.S. Constitution, and the lives of Americans, may depend on your choices.

Sincerely,

James N. Miller

Edited by Amused to Death
Added spoiler
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43 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:
1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

No tear gas for one

The protesters were not peaceful as well

Seems that the “no tear gas” thing may be a technicality. They admitted to using pepper balls that are similar in effect to tear gas, there were OC canisters found by journalists in the area which is a tear gas-“like” substance, and you can clearly see the yellow gas in some of the videos in that link that are clearly more than just smoke.

Thank you for linking that article, it has the best full account video of what exactly went down in that park that I've seen -- recorded by Reuters. It is nearly two hours long, but I just watched from ~15:00 to ~38:00 of that video, which is about 5-6 mins before the police begin to move on the protesters, to the point where the "final line" appears to be reached and the police stop dispersing them (after they've move down the whole block and around the corner).

Throughout that roughly 23 minute stretch of video, the only notable things I recorded:


21:03 - a single water bottle is thrown from off camera, landing ~5 feet in front of the line of shielded riot police who have just begun to advance toward the barriers. The crowd immediately begins yelling "stop throwing ####!" and no more objects are thrown.

31:29 - (after the police have been gassing and pushing the protesters a couple of times already) a protester is shown directly by the Reuters camera, with someone helping pour water into his eyes and another telling him "don't rub it in to your eyes."

32:45 - The Reuters photographer recording the video begins to cough as a plume of gas overtakes him from behind, others are heard coughing as well.

36:12 - a single water bottle is thrown from off camera as the riot police begin to push the protesters around the corner of the street towards the "final" spot.

Describing those protesters as "not peaceful" is disingenuous to the extreme.

Edited by mcintyre1
Added timestamped links to my notes
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42 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Seems that the “no tear gas” thing may be a technicality. They admitted to using pepper balls that are similar in effect to tear gas, there were OC canisters found by journalists in the area which is a tear gas-“like” substance, and you can clearly see the yellow gas in some of the videos in that link that are clearly more than just smoke.

Also note that the Federalist article says that the police didn’t have gas masks which is clearly not true as you can see lots of officers with gas masks in many of the videos.

I looked into this more. Here is an article describing the difference between pepper balls and tear gas. Basically there’s not much of a difference. So yeah, they didn’t use tear gas, they just used something that is pretty much exactly the same.

This webpage has some more info and shows that pepper spray products are often called OC products. So that OC canister found by the journalist was a pepper gas canister, which is also different than a pepper ball. 

So basically the Park Police were misleading at best.

Edited by GroveDiesel
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My CNN station has been pixelated and the audio broken up all night.  FOX, on the other hand is clear as a bell.  Right wing plot? 

In full disclosure, I was watching Bad News Bears earlier on RETRO and that got all scrambled too.  F Spectrum.

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3 minutes ago, Galileo said:

My CNN station has been pixelated and the audio broken up all night.  FOX, on the other hand is clear as a bell.  Right wing plot? 

In full disclosure, I was watching Bad News Bears earlier on RETRO and that got all scrambled too.  F Spectrum.

The original Bad News Bears I hope?

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5 minutes ago, Galileo said:

My CNN station has been pixelated and the audio broken up all night.  FOX, on the other hand is clear as a bell.  Right wing plot? 

In full disclosure, I was watching Bad News Bears earlier on RETRO and that got all scrambled too.  F Spectrum.

Maybe you’ll get a combination somehow? 
 

 

Edited by timschochet
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7 minutes ago, Galileo said:

My CNN station has been pixelated and the audio broken up all night.  FOX, on the other hand is clear as a bell.  Right wing plot? 

In full disclosure, I was watching Bad News Bears earlier on RETRO and that got all scrambled too.  F Spectrum.

Might need a line replacement.  Usually when it’s just certain channels like that it could be a problem with the cable line or connection 

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

The original Bad News Bears I hope?

Absolutely.  I don't know anything about RETRO network, but they aired it uncut including Tanner's description of the team... :jawdrop:  Could you imagine that language in a movie today?

 

 

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

That's just so sad. 

And unnecessary.

Hard to believe of all cities Detroit has had 2 days of no looting, no burning, and  no arrests. 

DPD Police Chief James Craig has taken charge again tonight on local TV saying.  "We will march with any peaceful protester hand in hand"  "We will  pursue, arrest, and prosecute any protester who loots, burns, destroys properties or harms a DPD officer"   Also Mayor Mike Duggan said James Craig is running the DPD and we support all of his decisions.   

That is leadership.

 

Edited by Da Guru
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1 hour ago, Kal El said:

All for a photo op for a failed president. He went to a Catholic place of prayer today and got the same treatment from their Archbishop as he got from this church's leader.

It is a 200 year old Episcopal church, and Episcopalians are pretty fired up about their clergy and seminarians being attacked and forced off their church grounds by force while they tried to provide medical aid to protestors:

“This is an awful man, waving a book he hasn’t read, in front of a church he doesn’t attend, invoking laws he doesn’t understand, against fellow Americans he sees as enemies, wielding a military he dodged serving, to protect power he gained via accepting foreign interference, exploiting fear and anger he loves to stoke, after failing to address a pandemic he was warned about, and building it all on a bed of constant lies and childish inanity.”
-- Robert Hendrickson, Rector at St. Philip’s Episcopal Church in Tucson, Arizona.

 

Edited by Todd Andrews
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4 minutes ago, Todd Andrews said:

It is a 200 year old Episcopal church, and Episcopalians are pretty fired up about their clergy and seminarians being attacked and forced off their church grounds by force while they tried to provide medical aid to protestors:

“This is an awful man, waving a book he hasn’t read, in front of a church he doesn’t attend, invoking laws he doesn’t understand, against fellow Americans he sees as enemies, wielding a military he dodged serving, to protect power he gained via accepting foreign interference, exploiting fear and anger he loves to stoke, after failing to address a pandemic he was warned about, and building it all on a bed of constant lies and childish inanity.”
-- Robert Hendrickson, Rector at St. Philip’s Episcopal Church in Tucson, Arizona.

Wow.

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1 minute ago, Todd Andrews said:

It is a 200 year old Episcopal church, and Episcopalians are pretty fired up about their clergy and seminarians being attacked and forced off their church grounds by force while they tried to provide medical aid to protestors:

“This is an awful man, waving a book he hasn’t read, in front of a church he doesn’t attend, invoking laws he doesn’t understand, against fellow Americans he sees as enemies, wielding a military he dodged serving, to protect power he gained via accepting foreign interference, exploiting fear and anger he loves to stoke, after failing to address a pandemic he was warned about, and building it all on a bed of constant lies and childish inanity.”
-- Robert Hendrickson, Rector at St. Philip’s Episcopal Church in Tucson, Arizona.

Very well said. 

I know the Trumpeteers will dispute this or that with "he was joking", "they all lie", etc., but they know, we all do, that it's 100% true.

At this point if you're making excuses for Trump you're running out of excuses for you.

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

Wow.

The Episcopalian bishop here in DC is not pleased:

Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde's Response to the President:

"The President just used a Bible and one of the churches of my diocese as a backdrop for a message antithetical to the teachings of Jesus and everything that our church stands for. To do so, he sanctioned the use of tear gas by police officers in riot gear to clear the church yard.

I am outraged.

The President did not pray when he came to St. John’s; nor did he acknowledge the agony and sacred worth of people of color in our nation who rightfully demand an end to 400 years of systemic racism and white supremacy in our country.

We in the Diocese of Washington follow Jesus in His Way of Love. We aspire to be people of peace and advocates of justice. In no way do we support the President’s incendiary response to a wounded, grieving nation. In faithfulness to our Savior who lived a life of non-violence and sacrificial love, we align ourselves with those seeking justice for the death of George Floyd and countless others through the sacred act of peaceful protest."

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