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Another killing at the hands of the Police


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6 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Let’s take a pause from arguing over whether the media treats white conservatives fairly (I’ll concede that they often do not) and focus on the issue of systemic racism and how we might be able to work together to heal the racial divide in this country. I am honestly interested in hearing your reaction/perspective on the video I posted earlier in this thread. I’ll link it again for your convenience. 
 

https://youtu.be/So_PC3rHrXA

Or maybe we should have a thread dedicated to the issues white conservatives or white men face rather than bringing it up in every thread about another groups problems. I think it's an interesting topic that is often derailed because of the context it is usually discussed. On its own, I think I think it is worth discussing.

I'll be honest that "all lives matter" was something that made sense to me when people first started saying "black lives matter". But, my current position is that I should be able to discuss the fact that, yes, black lives do matter without feeling the need to make sure people agree that all lives matters too. Saying black lives matter doesn't imply that other lives don't matter any more than me saying "I love you" to my wife indicates that I don't love other people. A group wants people to acknowledge their value. My refusal to do so in the past was largely driven by my stubbornness and misunderstanding of the situation.

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Members 16,204 31,897 posts Gender:Not Telling Report post Posted 4 minutes ago I have been contacted by several posters for my thoughts.  I struggled with coming back ev

The entire written statement from General Mattis should be required reading:

Spent the day at the DC marches yesterday. It was mostly peaceful, respectful. Angry at times, but definitely peaceful. We had a hiccup at one point after a group gathered at the Lincoln for some spee

Just now, whoknew said:

That's ok. Just enlightening, that's all.

Pretty sure that’s not what’s happening. I have no problem with protesting which is why it wasn’t mentioned. Please save the lame replies and attempting to put words in my mouth. It’s really tired schtick. 

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1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

Pretty sure that’s not what’s happening. I have no problem with protesting which is why it wasn’t mentioned. Please save the lame replies and attempting to put words in my mouth. It’s really tired schtick. 

I didn't put words in your mouth. I put analysis in my head. 

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19 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

One more laughing coward.  This place is going down the drain.  Nothing but mocking and nsme-calling.  Pathetic. 

Only I've not done either of these things.  Perhaps you should pause and think about why you are so unwilling to talk about a specific example?  I can't tell you what "the media's perspective is" honestly.  I'm not one who gets sucked into it only to complain about it time and again.  I don't understand why people do that.  It's odd to me.  I haven't watched a single minute of our "media" coverage of this whole thing outside of the thirty minutes my local news provides and all they talk about is where the peaceful protests are going to be.  

If this is as specific as it's going to get with you:

Quote

The media had body bags ready when there was a second amendment rally in Virginia last year.  Turned out to be a peaceful rally. 

this was the follow up event held by the same group as the year prior correct?  The one where the white supremacists came and took over the year prior right?  It seems you take issue, in this case anyway, with the assumption that things would be similar to the first time around.  I struggle to see why that was such an outrageous position to hold or how that is evidence that this place has problems making distinctions.  You'll notice that I am capable of separating the peaceful from the rioters.  I did it then and I'm doing it now.  I know it doesn't fit this bizarre box you've created for me and others here, but that seems to be a you issue, not one for me to deal with.  Perhaps, just maybe, you shouldn't be using terms like "we" when you really mean the media?  Take issue with them all you want.  I'm good with that.  Personally, I don't know what you have to gain from getting caught up in it after professing how toxic you believe it to be.  I find it much easier just to ignore the garbage in/out, but to each his own.  When you use "we" the way you are, you leave the impression that you are talking about the forum, yet all you have talked about as of this post is "the media".  Cool...be upset with them.  Projecting their bull#### onto the rest of us when we aren't all that similar is pretty nonsensical IMO.  I get this is a hill you've chosen to die on.  I don't understand why, but I understand that's what you're doing...to what end, I have no idea.  

The reality here is most here see the difference between protestors, rioters and looters and I don't think that goes away based on "the sides".  I know that doesn't fit the narrative, but maybe just step back and look at the responses in this thread outside the lens of politics and "sides"?  That's what seems to be happening.  Hopefully you'll join us.

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@GROOT

What are your thoughts now? I know we touched briefly on it the other day. I thought they've been setting it up to acquit him. You said it won't happen (when it was 3rd degree). Now it's 2nd. No way they convict him with 2nd you would think, right? Just seems all but assured he walks now, IMO.

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Just now, HAND said:

President Obama addressing the nation at 5 PM.  Hopefully this will help stem some of the violence/protests.

Violence is pretty stemmed.

Why do you want to stem the protests?

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20 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Or maybe we should have a thread dedicated to the issues white conservatives or white men face rather than bringing it up in every thread about another groups problems. I think it's an interesting topic that is often derailed because of the context it is usually discussed. On its own, I think I think it is worth discussing.

I'll be honest that "all lives matter" was something that made sense to me when people first started saying "black lives matter". But, my current position is that I should be able to discuss the fact that, yes, black lives do matter without feeling the need to make sure people agree that all lives matters too. Saying black lives matter doesn't imply that other lives don't matter any more than me saying "I love you" to my wife indicates that I don't love other people. A group wants people to acknowledge their value. My refusal to do so in the past was largely driven by my stubbornness and misunderstanding of the situation.

Insightful and well said

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2 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Violence is pretty stemmed.

Why do you want to stem the protests?

They have to die down sometime.  When they do, it will be (hopefully) because enough people think change is in the offing, as it should be.

There's still a pandemic going on.  No one can go to a concert or sporting event, it can't be good to have thousands of people packed into city blocks.

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15 minutes ago, whoknew said:

I don't think so.

And no.

You’re wrong. 
 

Also protests have happened for years now, hasn’t solved the problem....... quite obviously. 
 

Time to come down so hard on the guilty parties that no one in their right mind would want to risk it. Make an example out of Chauvin, I’m all for it. 

Edited by GoBirds
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17 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

@GROOT

What are your thoughts now? I know we touched briefly on it the other day. I thought they've been setting it up to acquit him. You said it won't happen (when it was 3rd degree). Now it's 2nd. No way they convict him with 2nd you would think, right? Just seems all but assured he walks now, IMO.

I'm honestly afraid of that now.  There's no doubt in my mind the guy should be prosecuted.  While I'm no attorney, just reading over the definitions this seems like a 3rd degree to me.  This could be setting up poorly.  Also, don't some jurisdictions allow for a jury to find guilty of a lesser charge?  Just wondering if it would be 2nd degree or nothing if they charge 2nd.

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1 minute ago, Shula-holic said:

I'm honestly afraid of that now.  There's no doubt in my mind the guy should be prosecuted.  While I'm no attorney, just reading over the definitions this seems like a 3rd degree to me.  This could be setting up poorly.  Also, don't some jurisdictions allow for a jury to find guilty of a lesser charge?  Just wondering if it would be 2nd degree or nothing if they charge 2nd.

Was wondering about that myself

Thought I heard on tv earlier that he will be charged with 2nd and 3rd degree murder and manslaughter but I’m not even sure if that’s possible 

🤷🏻‍♂️

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2 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

You’re wrong. 
 

Also protests have happened for years now, hasn’t solved the problem....... quite obviously. 
 

Time to come down so hard on the guilty parties that no one in their right mind would want to risk it. Make an example out of Chauvin, I’m all for it. 

Just six days after MLK was assassinated in 68 they passed significant changes to the 64 civil rights act. (removed discrimination concerning sale rental finanancing of housing based on race religion origin etc....)

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5 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I'm honestly afraid of that now.  There's no doubt in my mind the guy should be prosecuted.  While I'm no attorney, just reading over the definitions this seems like a 3rd degree to me.  This could be setting up poorly.  Also, don't some jurisdictions allow for a jury to find guilty of a lesser charge?  Just wondering if it would be 2nd degree or nothing if they charge 2nd.

Yes, and I heard some Minnesota attorneys saying such on CNN earlier.  If they do not convict on the 2nd degree charge they can still convict on a lessor one.  It also seems that Minnesota has 2 different categories of 2nd degree...with intent and without intent while committing a felony.  The charge is the latter.  They do not have to establish intent, but do have to establish it occurred in the process of committing a felony which would be some degree of assault in this case.

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9 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

Just six days after MLK was assassinated in 68 they passed significant changes to the 64 civil rights act. (removed discrimination concerning sale rental finanancing of housing based on race religion origin etc....)

And I’m glad that happened more than half a century ago, yet here we are with another senseless murder. Protests haven’t solved it. 

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21 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

You’re wrong. 
 

Also protests have happened for years now, hasn’t solved the problem....... quite obviously. 
 

Time to come down so hard on the guilty parties that no one in their right mind would want to risk it. Make an example out of Chauvin, I’m all for it. 

Gen pop him. No protected custody.  That will send a message loud and clear. 

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Gen pop him. No protected custody.  That will send a message loud and clear. 

I’m all for it, have the news report regularly on the abuse that’s getting laid on him. Cowards like him will see that happening and know they could never survive the consequences. 
 

Nothing will ever fully solve the problem as every profession has losers but letting these losers know that not only are the not untouchable but they will be living in hell is what needs to happen. 

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2 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I’m all for it, have the news report regularly on the abuse that’s getting laid on him. Cowards like him will see that happening and know they could never survive the consequences. 
 

Nothing will ever fully solve the problem as every profession has losers but letting these losers know that not only are the not untouchable but they will be living in hell is what needs to happen. 

We don’t always see eye to eye politically but we absolutely do here.  Heavy hands are needed in an instances like this, unfortunate as it is to say.  

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https://twitter.com/jose_pagliery/status/1268269855762976770

Defense lawyer source: protestors arrested by NYPD are being pulled aside by FBI at precincts & asked about anti-fascist sentiments or connections to antifa.

More tonight at 6pm on @univisionNY. //

Very cool- protesters now being treated as terrorists based upon abstract political views.  I wonder if people who worshiped FBI during russia investigation have any reservations about glorifying them as noble guardians of democratic institutions?  

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2 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

https://twitter.com/jose_pagliery/status/1268269855762976770

Defense lawyer source: protestors arrested by NYPD are being pulled aside by FBI at precincts & asked about anti-fascist sentiments or connections to antifa.

More tonight at 6pm on @univisionNY. //

Very cool- protesters now being treated as terrorists based upon abstract political views.  I wonder if people who worshiped FBI during russia investigation have any reservations about glorifying them as noble guardians of democratic institutions?  

I think those praising the FBI are quite against policies of this administration that have the FBI now doing this.  As well as the basically anoymous DOJ officers in DC

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32 minutes ago, whoknew said:

More generic DOJ troops in downtown DC. And they won't identify themselves. And people are responding in exactly the way you would expect. 

 

 

Link

I didn’t see any frustration. Kind of a weird tweet

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I think one of the little talked about reasons things why there was more looting and violence early on is because so many are in masks due to covid.   That mask probably made people feel more anonymous than otherwise.

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24 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

I think those praising the FBI are quite against policies of this administration that have the FBI now doing this.  As well as the basically anoymous DOJ officers in DC

Tons of countries interrogate random citizens.  Soviet Union, Nazi Germany...this is not unusual 

/sarcasm just in case

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24 minutes ago, shader said:

I think one of the little talked about reasons things why there was more looting and violence early on is because so many are in masks due to covid.   That mask probably made people feel more anonymous than otherwise.

Eh, It seems like looters wearing masks/bandannas was pretty much standard operating procedure before this

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2 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

@GROOT

What are your thoughts now? I know we touched briefly on it the other day. I thought they've been setting it up to acquit him. You said it won't happen (when it was 3rd degree). Now it's 2nd. No way they convict him with 2nd you would think, right? Just seems all but assured he walks now, IMO.

I just got home from work, so i have to catch up. I agree with you.. The charges need to be based on logic not emotion. They could blow this.

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4 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Eh, It seems like looters wearing masks/bandannas was pretty much standard operating procedure before this

Yeah but mask wearing in the general public was not. Makes it much easier to blend into the crowd and more confident that you won’t get caught. But I don’t agree with the general point either. I think there’s a lot of opportunistic people looking to loot and cause chaos. Luckily it appears that more are staying home now. Hopefully nothing happens to re-spark the riot flames.

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2 minutes ago, whoknew said:

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Prosecutors: 3 held in Las Vegas on terror charges in right-wing conspiracy to spark violence during protests.

--

Well that is certainly ... interesting. 

Oh:

They were arrested Saturday on the way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas after filling gas cans at a parking lot and making Molotov cocktails in glass bottles, according to a copy of the criminal complaint obtained by The Associated Press.

The complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas on Wednesday said they self-identified as part of the “boogaloo” movement, which U.S. prosecutors said in the document is “a term used by extremists to signify coming civil war and/or fall of civilization.”

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17 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Oh:

They were arrested Saturday on the way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas after filling gas cans at a parking lot and making Molotov cocktails in glass bottles, according to a copy of the criminal complaint obtained by The Associated Press.

The complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas on Wednesday said they self-identified as part of the “boogaloo” movement, which U.S. prosecutors said in the document is “a term used by extremists to signify coming civil war and/or fall of civilization.”

I wonder if this is the same group  https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/molotov-cocktail-tossing-lawyers-tried-to-pass-out-explosives-cops/

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I'm not entirely sure of all of these but here are organizations that I have heard that have severed ties with the Minneapolis Police Department. 

University of Minnesota

Minneapolis Park Board (Minneapolis Park Police)

YMCA

YWCA

Minneapolis Public Schools 

Walker Art Center

Minneapolis Institute of Arts

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48 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Oh:

They were arrested Saturday on the way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas after filling gas cans at a parking lot and making Molotov cocktails in glass bottles, according to a copy of the criminal complaint obtained by The Associated Press.

The complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas on Wednesday said they self-identified as part of the “boogaloo” movement, which U.S. prosecutors said in the document is “a term used by extremists to signify coming civil war and/or fall of civilization.”

This sounds very similar to what "on the ground" reports have been in the Twin Cities. White people in stolen, plateless cars filled with gas cans/bottles with gas/kerosene.  Often these white suspects have escaped apprehension. In one instance, as they were getting pulled over the white driver got out, doused the car in gasoline and attempted to light it before ultimately running away and escaping. Also repeated stories of finding small caches of gas filled bottles/oil cans in bushes/alleys throughout the area of the city that was most heavily burned. We haven't as of yet gotten any confirmation that these people are connected to a specific group up here. All of those named as arrested related to fires up here have been seemingly non-political (there's only been 3 named, that I'm aware of).

I also received this account from a friend last night who lives north of the 3rd Precinct where a lot of the worst arson happened:

Quote

Was really hoping for an uneventful night tonight, but it was not to be. Around 10:45 two cars pulled up and parked on the street in front of the dark auto repair shop diagonal from us. One guy got out of the lead car, failed to see me on my very well-lit porch, and got into the chase car with 2 other people, where they proceeded to sit for probably 5 minutes doing something inside the car. Thankfully some other folks from the block came to join me and we watched them from across the street. When the lead guy got out of the car I asked him what was going on, and after a very poor attempt to claim that he was "on his way home" and "lived two blocks away" (pointing in the direction they had come from), he pretty quickly resorted to screaming threats and dropping the n-word before hopping back in the cars and speeding away. All white guys, and at least the lead guy appeared to have a shaved head. Look, I get that the outsider narrative is complicated and other cities are dealing with other situations. But I just want to be super clear: South Minneapolis is under siege by literal ####### skinheads.

 

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The entire written statement from General Mattis should be required reading:

In Union There Is Strength

I have watched this week's unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words "Equal Justice Under Law" are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a "battlespace" that our uniformed military is called upon to "dominate." At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict— between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. 

Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that "America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat." We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that "The Nazi slogan for destroying us...was 'Divide and Conquer.' Our American answer is 'In Union there is Strength.'" We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln's "better angels," and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.

James Mattis

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Who would have guessed that a town hall address from former President Obama would be completely upstaged within moments, but the jaw-dropping statement from Mad Dog Mattis did just that. Wow. 

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Last night in Charlotte, peaceful protesters were funneled into a choke point between two large buildings and police gassed both cross streets.  There doesn't seem to be any reason given: Charlotte has no curfew, and the protest appears peaceful.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10100217120909898&id=14700927

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2 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Who would have guessed that a town hall address from former President Obama would be completely upstaged within moments, but the jaw-dropping statement from Mad Dog Mattis did just that. Wow. 

Both are examples of what actual leadership looks like.

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Prosecutors: 3 held in Las Vegas on terror charges in right-wing conspiracy to spark violence during protests.

--

Well that is certainly ... interesting. 

So we have actual examples now of right wing groups causing terror...and how many caught that were actually antifa?  Will Trump and Barr address this?

 

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1 hour ago, GROOT said:

I just got home from work, so i have to catch up. I agree with you.. The charges need to be based on logic not emotion. They could blow this.

I agree--I told my wife the same thing. 

Police are afforded so many protections. "This guy resisited. Look it took four of us to subdue him. He was a convicted violent felon that previously did prison time.. The crowd around us was agitated and we feared for our safety."  These are all seeds the defense will plant in a juror's mind. 

If I am the prosecutor, I offer the one officer who was requesting that Floyd be rolled on his side and was denied by Chauvin, a sweet plea deal and get him in my corner. 

Edited by Courtjester
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Secretary Esper today: 

"The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act."

and

"Racism is real in America, and we must all do our very best to recognize it, to confront it, and to eradicate it."

 

He's on life support. Probably already been fired after insubordination like that. At least have the dignity to resign.

So who's up next? I hear Steve King's available, and there's always Sheriff Joe. Oh, and Jared.

Thank God for Jared.

If I'm in the military my morale couldn't get any higher, especially after Trumpissimo silenced all the top brass from commenting on his "domination" cosplay.

What did one of the Trump guys say awhile back, "I've never been prouder of my country"? I'm sure they feel the same. Anything that says otherwise must be fake news, brewed up by the enemy of the people. Enemies like James Mattis and the 15 other generals he fired.

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