Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Another killing at the hands of the Police


Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

I'm concerned about the police department covering up the crime to protect their own, but otherwise this is just an individual act of drunkenness and should be dealt with on that level.

This is my concern.  Turning off of  body cams.  Cover up by his peers.  Then you have the officer returning to the scene the next day to do or say who knows what.  Not only that, but imagine this guy defended himself that night?  This could have easily ended up like one of the articles we discuss in this thread. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 14k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Members 16,204 31,897 posts Gender:Not Telling Report post Posted 4 minutes ago I have been contacted by several posters for my thoughts.  I struggled with coming back ev

The entire written statement from General Mattis should be required reading:

Spent the day at the DC marches yesterday. It was mostly peaceful, respectful. Angry at times, but definitely peaceful. We had a hiccup at one point after a group gathered at the Lincoln for some spee

On 10/27/2020 at 12:20 PM, Kal El said:

Still not a valid reason to kill him. It's a melee weapon, the poluce have several ranged ones that don't have to kill. There's still a disconnect here.

 

 

OK, seriously now, the question that needs to be asked how much does the average citizen understand the use of force continuum?  I would say on a national level, there needs to be more video related discussion of the parameters around the use of force by law enforcement.

 

****

 

Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios

•Jan 7, 2015

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAJXP0okzwk

 

We've seen protests all across the country after police officers have been accused of shooting people who aren't armed. Jarrett Maupin, a vocal critic of police during recent protests, went through force training with local authorities. FOX 10's Troy Hayden also went through the training and discusses the results.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Ohio man fatally shot by task force

Quote

Casey Goodson, 23, was fatally shot on Friday by a 17-year veteran of the Franklin County Sheriff's Office, identified as deputy Jason Meade. Meade was working for the US Marshal's fugitive task force looking for violent offenders at the time, but Goodson was not the person being sought by the task force, Columbus Police said.

Goodson had put his keys into his door before he was shot and fell into the kitchen, where his 5-year-old brother and his 72-year-old grandmother saw him lying on the ground with a Subway sandwich, family attorney Sean Walton told CNN.

Goodson, an Ohio concealed carry permit holder, was legally armed at the time of the shooting, according to the Columbus Division of Police. Goodson was not alleged to have committed any crimes, has no criminal background and was not the target of any investigation, Walton told CNN.

 

  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Armed Woman - NOT shot by police - claims police brutality after resisting arrest.  Police saved by body cam footage:

https://www.kktv.com/2020/12/10/watch-police-in-colorado-release-body-camera-footage-after-woman-allegedly-claims-she-was-jumped-by-aurora-officers/

Tough job for sure.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Sad but pretty obviously justified there. 

Being a police officer is a tough job when you have to make split second life and death decisions that can impact your own life and or the perps.  One of you might not go home, then did you do make the right or wrong decision?  Not may of us will ever know what it feels like to have to make that split seconf decison.  I sure would never want that job.

I know a few police officers that I went to school with, have never heard one say they would like to shoot a person. Just the opposite.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I went back and read through like 30-40 pages of the thread from the end of May.  It's not the reason I did it, but I thought I'd share what I saw.

First, there were a couple people explicitly defending the rioters.  It wasn't many, but there were a few.

Even during the first night of rioting (5/28), almost everyone not on my ignore list was way more "WTF?! How have the cops not been arrested yet," though.  Even the conservatives.  Not so much in defense of the rioters, just generally that's where everyone's head was at.

It was the night of the 29th where most people that said anything about it were looking for a stronger response from the the legal establishment and law enforcement, but many others were still focused on Chauvin and Trump's actions.  As far as I can tell it was still mostly just different focuses, not so much justifying either the rioters or the cops.  (Again, this sample could be influenced quite a bit by the size of my ignore list.) 

I didn't see anyone suggesting the rioters shouldn't face consequences -- even the people who were more down with it than everyone else.  No one said it should be legal or they should skate.

@Andy Dufresne comes off really well.  Honest and sensible and thoughtful.

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprised nobody added Ashli Babbit, who was executed at the Capitol building on 1/6.

Unarmed. 

Peaceful protester.

Woman.

Air force veteran.

All she was doing was exercising her first amendment rights that our beloved BLM/Antifa did for 100+ days this summer and she was executed at point blank range. Despite the fact there were a half dozen Capital Police in riot gear within arms reach of her, who had no apparent issues with what she was doing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/18/2021 at 10:05 PM, Bozeman Bruiser said:

Surprised nobody added Ashli Babbit, who was executed at the Capitol building on 1/6.

Unarmed. 

Peaceful protester.

Woman.

Air force veteran.

All she was doing was exercising her first amendment rights that our beloved BLM/Antifa did for 100+ days this summer and she was executed at point blank range. Despite the fact there were a half dozen Capital Police in riot gear within arms reach of her, who had no apparent issues with what she was doing. 

This is a horrible take. All she was doing was breaking and entering and leading a violent mob into the Capitol. At that point it had zero to do with the first amendment. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

This is a horrible take. All she was doing was breaking and entering and leading a violent mob into the Capitol. At that point it had zero to do with the first amendment. 

Indeed - this is about the fourth time in this forum I have seen her falsely characterized as an "unarmed peaceful protester" as if she was some sort innocent bystander shot by the Capitol police. 

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, squistion said:

Indeed - this is about the fourth time in this forum I have seen her falsely characterized as an "unarmed peaceful protester" as if she was some sort innocent bystander shot by the Capitol police. 

Was she armed?  If she was brandishing a gun then it was justified.

Edited by Da Guru
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Da Guru said:
5 hours ago, squistion said:

Indeed - this is about the fourth time in this forum I have seen her falsely characterized as an "unarmed peaceful protester" as if she was some sort innocent bystander shot by the Capitol police. 

Was she armed?  If she was brandishing a gun then it was justified.

As I understand it, she was not armed.  However, she certainly was not "peacefully protesting".  She and the group she was leading had already illegally entered the building, broken the windows of the door through which she was attempting to climb, were forcibly attempting to enter a locked area within the building, and ignored directives to back away.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, squistion said:

Indeed - this is about the fourth time in this forum I have seen her falsely characterized as an "unarmed peaceful protester" as if she was some sort innocent bystander shot by the Capitol police. 

Have a link to where she was armed?

tia

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:
33 minutes ago, Da Guru said:
5 hours ago, squistion said:

Indeed - this is about the fourth time in this forum I have seen her falsely characterized as an "unarmed peaceful protester" as if she was some sort innocent bystander shot by the Capitol police. 

Was she armed?  If she was brandishing a gun then it was justified.

Expand  

As I understand it, she was not armed.  However, she certainly was not "peacefully protesting".  She and the group she was leading had already illegally entered the building, broken the windows of the door through which she was attempting to climb, were forcibly attempting to enter a locked area within the building, and ignored directives to back away.

This. She was the first one attempting to break through the window of the door. I am unsure what the police are supposed to do when they are protecting congress and there are hundreds (thousands?) of people rushing through while beating on police with fire extinguishers and flag poles and hockey sticks.

And before anyone tries the whataboutism, if the police in Mpls were in the 3rd precicnt and had not fled while the unarmed protestors attempted to overtake it and burn it down, yes, they would have been justified in shooting those idiots

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

This. She was the first one attempting to break through the window of the door. I am unsure what the police are supposed to do when they are protecting congress and there are hundreds (thousands?) of people rushing through while beating on police with fire extinguishers and flag poles and hockey sticks.

And before anyone tries the whataboutism, if the police in Mpls were in the 3rd precicnt and had not fled while the unarmed protestors attempted to overtake it and burn it down, yes, they would have been justified in shooting those idiots

 I didn't realize there were Canucks there....interesting

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/18/2021 at 8:05 PM, Bozeman Bruiser said:

Surprised nobody added Ashli Babbit, who was executed at the Capitol building on 1/6.

Unarmed. 

Peaceful protester.

Woman.

Air force veteran.

All she was doing was exercising her first amendment rights that our beloved BLM/Antifa did for 100+ days this summer and she was executed at point blank range. Despite the fact there were a half dozen Capital Police in riot gear within arms reach of her, who had no apparent issues with what she was doing. 

I think more people are surprised that this was the only casualty by cop.  I would have thought that protecting the capitol and congress from an angry mob would have resulted in more bloodshed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Officer killed by a suspect that was released after arrest.  RIP

Published: Jan. 22, 2021 at 6:30 PM EST|Updated: 15 hours ago

TOLEDO, Ohio (WTVG) - An armed suspect comes out of home opening fire shooting at Toledo police. Officer Brandon stalker was struck and killed.

Toledo’s police chief is now detailing how that tragic chain of events went down on Monday night.

Toledo police surrounded the Fulton street home of Christopher Harris Monday afternoon after getting a tip identifying him as the person who vandalized Rosary Cathedral earlier that day.

With an arrest warrant officer approached him and he ran back into the home and showed officers that he had a gun. That’s when negotiators were called.

“In this case they knew pretty soon that this person was not rational enough to actually participate in a negotiation. They’re going to do everything they can humanly possible,” said Chief George Kral.

Harris came out while also firing a total of nine times. 5 shots hit a Toledo police vehicle.

One bullet hit officer Brandon Stalker in the head as he was securing the perimeter and was behind a police SUV.

“He had an entire 2500-pound SUV in between the suspect and him. He put his head out to look and tragically he was struck,” said Kral.

“It’s a combination of COVID-19, it’s a combination of too many guns, it’s a combination of no criminal trials for the 15 months. We’re not putting criminals in jail because of COVID-19 and understandably I don’t want to make judges mad at me but there has to be a time when we start holding suspects who we are arresting for violent crimes we have to take them to trial and put them in jail,” said Kral.

 

 

Copyright 2021 WTVG. All rig

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, HellToupee said:

Have a link to where she was armed?

tia

Never said she was armed. She led the mob attempting to breach a barricaded door inside the Capitol building 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, djmich said:

lol

First, this would be an informative study to truly conduct and trace back to drivers.

Second, the first sentence was "Has Black Lives Matter influenced police lethal use-of-force?"

I've bolded for you some of the key grammatical elements not reflected in your post.

That's just the first sentence of the abstract and it's posed as a question as that's what they are looking at.  If you pull up the entire paper and go down to the conclusion (assuming you don't want to read the whole thing), you'll see it's no longer posed as a question, but instead that the data suggests the answer to the question in the abstract is answered with some caveats.  There are limitations to the study and there are certainly other factors at play.  But, it's something to consider.  Here it is:
 

Quote

 

6. Conclusion

Difference-in-differences estimates suggest that census places with Black Lives Matter protests have experienced a 15% to 20% decrease in police homicides from 2014 to 2019,approximately 300 fewer police homicides. This fall in lethal use-of-force is growing overtime and is prominent when protests are large or frequent. While this reduction is robust to specification, estimator choice, choice of data, and population screens, it did not hold if lethal use-of-force is normalized by violent crime or arrests. BLM protests also increase the probability of a police agency having body-cameras, expand community policing, and reduce the number of future property crime-related arrests, which may partially explain the lethal force reduction

 

 

As for my "post", I included no commentary other than the link itself so not sure how I can reflect so much in my "post".

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2021 at 5:18 AM, Alex P Keaton said:

What does this mean jon?

I am not sure, but I would hope that he is not suggesting what I think he is, as that would be an appalling post. Ugh.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, gianmarco said:

There is give and take. 

The bad.  Crime is up, homicides are way up.   Some cities murders are up 30-40-50% in the last 2 years. The total number of people getting killed is up by a large %.

The Good.   Police shootings and killings are down.

So take the good with the bad because when we kill each other nobody cares.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Not sure why this was so funny to you @GoBirds.  Can you elaborate?

Because while you may be saving some (mostly criminals) from being killed by police, 30 to 40 times more innocent victims are being killed by criminals.  It is odd to be celebrating the first statistic while ignoring the far more bleak second statistic.  

Edited by jon_mx
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Because while you may be saving some (mostly criminals) from being killed by police, 30 to 40 times more innocent victims are being killed by criminals.  It is odd to be celebrating the first statistic while ignoring the far more bleak second statistic.  

30-40 times!! What the hell jon, you know that is nowehere near true. Good god man

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dawgtrails said:

30-40 times!! What the hell jon, you know that is nowehere near true. Good god man

And well...still, how in the world does that make it funny?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

30-40 times!! What the hell jon, you know that is nowehere near true. Good god man

If you conceded that the cause Jon says is true than in many cities from that study that is actually accurate. 

So you really shouldnt take issue with the number. The number of people murdered by police in each city is a fraction of overall murders. The cause would likely be your disagreement. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

30-40 times!! What the hell jon, you know that is nowehere near true. Good god man

It is probably low.  BLM is excited because there have been 50-60 fewer police shootings per year compared to over a thousand more murders across the country.  

Quote

 

Massive 1-Year Rise In Homicide Rates

At the end of 2020, Chicago police reported more than 750 murders, a jump of more than 50% compared with 2019. By mid-December, Los Angeles saw a 30% increase over the previous year with 322 homicides. There were 437 homicides in New York City by Dec. 20, nearly 40% more than the previous year.

 

 

Quote

 

US homcide rates skyrocket in 2020

New Orleans-based data consultant Jeff Asher who studies crime rates told NPR, "We're going to see, historically, the largest one-year rise in murder that we've ever seen." He said it has been more than half a century since the U.S. saw year-to-year murder rates jump approximately 13%. 

 

 

Quote

 

2020’s murder increase is ‘unprecedented.’

A different study looking at 21 U.S. cities found 610 more murders in those jurisdictions this year over last year. 

 

Thanks BLM?

Edited by jon_mx
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

If you conceded that the cause Jon says is true than in many cities from that study that is actually accurate. 

So you really shouldnt take issue with the number. The number of people murdered by police in each city is a fraction of overall murders. The cause would likely be your disagreement. 

Are you all confusing a 30-40% increase with 30-40 times? I am throroughly confused. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Are you all confusing a 30-40% increase with 30-40 times? I am throroughly confused. 

No. Milwaukee had over a 100% increase in murders(which was like 106 murders). Only a handful of people were killed by police. 

So 15% reduction in police killings would be like 2 people. That is 1/50th of the increase in overall murder increase. 

Eta: picked MKE because it is local and was in the study. Didnt cherry pick it as a high outlier

Edited by parasaurolophus
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Are you all confusing a 30-40% increase with 30-40 times? I am throroughly confused. 

You are confusing with what I stated.  BLM is claiming 60 fewer shootings by officers per year.  Murder rates have skyrocketed 15-75% across major US cities, but that translates into well over a thousands deaths.  Depending on the total number, it is probably in the range of 30 times more murders compared to lives saved.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dawgtrails said:

Oh got ya. That seems like an odd way to look at things though

It is the exact way you should look at it from a cost vs. benefit standpoint.  If you are saving 50 lives (who are most likely criminals) vs. seeing more than 1500 mostly innocent people murdered, that is how you compare whether it it a net gain or loss.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Oh got ya. That seems like an odd way to look at things though

I think it's an important way to look at it, and I sympathize with communities who are more than frustrated at the treatment they suffer at the hands of the police. But the "defund the police" movement, attendant rioting, and the refusal to allow police to do their jobs has had consequences for the very population the protests are seeking to help.

But the communities seem pretty united in preferring a lack of police presence to a heavy one, so who am I to say, really, what is good for them? They feel more threatened by the police than their own community members, which is probably unwise, but these sentiments run deep.

Edited by rockaction
Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we trying to attribute a higher murder rate to police not using lethal force or just not being around as much? That seems like a. HUGE stretch.

Here, it seems to mostly be as a result of Covid and people being more confrontational as a result of not being able to be out. In fact, other crimes like robberies are down.

I just do see the relationship that murders are overall up being a result of protests/decreased use of police lethal force.

Not to mention the first paper I linked showed a decrease over 5 years in police lethal force. Showing a big one year bump when violent crime had been decreasing each year leading up to it seems irrelevant to the original point.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

It is the exact way you should look at it from a cost vs. benefit standpoint.  If you are saving 50 lives (who are most likely criminals) vs. seeing more than 1500 mostly innocent people murdered, that is how you compare whether it it a net gain or loss.

But one isn't causing the other. We didn't see an increase in murders in 2020 because police used less lethal force over the previous 5 years.  

Until you can show a link between the two, it's an unrelated comparison that makes no sense. A isn't causing B.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dawgtrails said:

Oh got ya. That seems like an odd way to look at things though

Thats kinda my point. You would likely disagree that the increase in murders was due to more laid back policing. 

So your disagreement isnt over figures, just on substance of the cause of the increase in murders.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

But one isn't causing the other. We didn't see an increase in murders in 2020 because police used less lethal force over the previous 5 years.  

Until you can show a link between the two, it's an unrelated comparison that makes no sense. A isn't causing B.

I am not saying less lethal force is causing it.  It is probably the idea of 'defunding police' and a significantly less police presence that is causing it.  It is probably a factor in why there is less lethal force too.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

Because while you may be saving some (mostly criminals) from being killed by police, 30 to 40 times more innocent victims are being killed by criminals.  It is odd to be celebrating the first statistic while ignoring the far more bleak second statistic.  

Jon thanks for handling the board 🚔. Never ending in here. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...