Yenrub
Footballguy
His name is Adam Toledo. Body cam video has been released today
https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/body-camera-video-shows-fatal-shooting-of-13-year-old-adam-toledo-in-chicago-110271557833
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Another killing at the hands of the Police (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter In The Zone
- Start date
https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/body-camera-video-shows-fatal-shooting-of-13-year-old-adam-toledo-in-chicago-110271557833
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Wow. NBC makes you watch an ad first before you view it.
"Get the new plan from Verizon before you watch this kid getting killed".
Last edited by a moderator:
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I can't bring myself to click on that.
massraider
Footballguy
7th grader with a disability puts hands up immediately, gets shot.
Let me guess, he moved his hands too quick when he put them up, and might have been going for a weapon.
That's a powerful video, the still photo right before he was shot was both hands in the air.
massraider
Footballguy
It should be said that the biggest villain in this story, post-shooting, was the black female mayor of Chicago, who blamed the victim before the video came out, then had the audacity to cry when it came out, and blamed the shooting on "too many guns on our streets".
uwillbsoon
Footballguy
That's a tough video to watch.
Cop reacted way too quickly. Kid was complying.
But I can see the cop's POV. He saw the kid running with a gun. Didn't see him toss it. Had to make a split second call as he's turning towards him.
Sad all around.
Last edited by a moderator:
I’ve seen a lot of these but that one is the absolute worst. The kid looks like my son. The raw emotion, the futile attempt to save him, the medic imploring the kid to stay awake.... just awful. Question is, when the kid turned around was there a gun in his hand? I didn’t see one.This is Terrible.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
I agree with this. It is gut-wrenching to watch a 13-year-old get shot, and then lying there lifeless and bleeding from the mouth.
I can't fault the cop, though. We can rewind the video and slow it down and look at still shots after the fact and say he was too quick to shoot. But, in that situation, I don't see how he did anything that violated reasonable "use of force" training.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
No. They showed stills from the video of his empty hands the split-second before the officer fired. Later on in one of the videos from another officer's body cam, they showed the gun on the ground about 8-10 feet away, behind the fence. Kid probably threw it before turning around.
In real time, there was no way to tell whether the kid still had the gun. I feel for everyone involved in this, the family and the police officer.
uwillbsoon
Footballguy
This story is also sad because it sounds like he was with a 21 year old who shot up a car with that gun and then gave it to him as police were arriving. Probably because the 21 year old had a record and the kid was a juvenile. He was the fall guy.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I have unfortunately given up hope that much will be done about it in the U.S., but can we at least admit that a decent portion of the heightened tension and fear on the end of our police officers stems from our insane # of guns and the real chance that anybody who they pull over could have one in the car or could be reaching for one?
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
that was rough to watch. why a 13 year old is armed is beyond me.
massraider
Footballguy
If the cop is not at fault here, why do they even tell people to get their hands up? Why not just start shooting?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Dog the Bounty Hunter is on Fox News saying take cops bullets away, and Pat Robertson is out here like:
https://twitter.com/ZTPetrizzo/status/1382727213448056836
The conversation is shifting quickly.
https://twitter.com/ZTPetrizzo/status/1382727213448056836
The conversation is shifting quickly.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Put yourself in this situation: You are responding to reports of multiple shots fired at 2:30am. You arrive on the scene, and one of the suspects takes off running. You chase after them. After chasing them several hundred feet, they stop. You have your weapon drawn- this individual is presumably armed with a handgun. You order them to stop and put their hands up. They quickly turn around towards you.massraider said:
There is no time for a reasoned analysis of things: this is adrenaline and training and split-second muscle memory.
It's tragic. It's especially tragic that life events led to a 13-year-old being out at 2:30am with a 21-year-old parolee, shooting a handgun in an urban area. Blame the system, blame a lot of things, but this cop didn't do anything outside the boundaries of reasonable use of force. He couldn't know the kid had thrown the gun away. He has a reasonable expectation that the armed suspect that quickly turned around to face him could still be holding that weapon and had bad intentions.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Then why tell him to put his hands up?
Cop then walks over to this 13 year old kid that had so terrified him he didn't have time to see if his hands were empty, and asks:
"You alright?"
13 year old kid from special ed classes.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think is this could be a situation why people have made the point that cops should live where they police. Again, not 100%, but situations like this maybe avoided if the officers knew of the kid and maybe that he has mental issues, etc. Won't fix everything but it might bring that small town mentality of knowing people and families to more widspread situations.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Couldnt you get the same familiarity by always working the same area? Do they do that?
Cop has to be 100% sure the kid has a gun in his hand and ready to shoot. It’s a subtle paradigm shift that has to happen. Will it mean more cops being shot at? Probably. But that’s where we are.
massraider
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Working and living are different. Living you are interacting with the community outside of a work environment. Takes the tension away. Plus, working the same area in some precincts could mean terrorizing that area. Which isnt going to build any good relationships.
Remember growing up when we saw police on tv and the officer was playing with his baton and knew everyones name in the neighborhood? Thats the type of relationship thats needed.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
In my area they have a registry. So if you have a special needs child or family member, you can register them with the police so that they know them and how to properly interact with them should they somehow become lost or missing or somewhere by themselves.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
A 13 year old getting shot is tragic. But you guys are seeing that he had a gun in his hand that was blocked from view of the officer and threw that gun behind the fence as he pivoted towards the officer to raise his hands, right?
The freeze frame of the kid with his hands in the air and no weapon as he’s getting shot is great optics for those hammering the cop on this, though not a very accurate representation of the entire situation considering that hand held a weapon a split second prior. Sick that a teenager lost their life. After watching this one, I just don’t know that you can positively say that the officer was out of bounds in their reaction.
Video
The freeze frame of the kid with his hands in the air and no weapon as he’s getting shot is great optics for those hammering the cop on this, though not a very accurate representation of the entire situation considering that hand held a weapon a split second prior. Sick that a teenager lost their life. After watching this one, I just don’t know that you can positively say that the officer was out of bounds in their reaction.
Video
Last edited by a moderator:
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Didnt most cities that had these requirements ultimately waive them because they were missing out on hires?
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Seriously, where were the adults in that kids life. looks like a justified shooting, sad.
Sand
Footballguy
Kid had a gun, shown on video. He turned with that hand hidden. I can see why the cop fired. As awful as the situation is this is justified.
13 year old kid, out at 2:30AM, and known on the street as "Lil' Homicide" and "Baby Diablo". The parents deserve about 20 years each for this.
Last edited by a moderator:
BladeRunner
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
good question. Im not sure. But i would think they could make it worth it for them.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
From 2014 piece on 538
We found to our surprise that residency requirements did not improve confidence,” Murphy said in a recent interview. Quite the opposite: Residency requirements were correlated with less public confidence in the police, specifically in the police force’s ability to protect its citizens.
Murphy thinks the explanation lies in the constraints the requirement puts on a department’s recruitment efforts, though he hasn’t been able to test the theory. In the paper, Murphy and Worrall concluded tentatively that “it is possible that the critics of residency requirements are correct — the limitations on hiring pools, for example, could lead to poor personnel choices and a less qualified commissioned officer corps.”
We found to our surprise that residency requirements did not improve confidence,” Murphy said in a recent interview. Quite the opposite: Residency requirements were correlated with less public confidence in the police, specifically in the police force’s ability to protect its citizens.
Murphy thinks the explanation lies in the constraints the requirement puts on a department’s recruitment efforts, though he hasn’t been able to test the theory. In the paper, Murphy and Worrall concluded tentatively that “it is possible that the critics of residency requirements are correct — the limitations on hiring pools, for example, could lead to poor personnel choices and a less qualified commissioned officer corps.”
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
That is interesting. I would be curious to know how long they lived there for starters as i dont expect relationships to be built overnight. I would be curious to know what these constraints are they reference. I guess you do shrink the talent pool but make it worth their while and you should be able to solve that problem. I'll have to try to find the study. It looks interesting.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The areas that really could use the best connection with officers arent places people really want to move to. You almost have to start a program in high school. Make sure they graduate, offer them employment, train them, retain them in the area they grew up.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
The still shots in your link do appear to show the gun in his hand. I've seen a video, too, from some building across the field off the backside of the fence. It seemed that the boy did toss the gun just before turning around. Given the basic facts, the officer was really in a tough position. Could he have paused just a fraction more? Dunno. And I have to believe their training is to shoot for the center rather than trying to injure a suspect. Sad as it is, I don't view the boy's age as having a whole lot of relevance here ...unless he was manipulated by the 21-year-old, who possibly gave the kid the gun when the cops arrived and told him to run. The family should be really pissed off at that guy.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
What is his disability? I cant find anything on this.massraider said:
massraider
Footballguy
You know, I read special education, and I thought it meant mentally disabled. I am not sure.
None of us how the officer was doing, after shooting a child. Shame on us.
Sand
Footballguy
Fight or flight reflex is primal. So hard, I agree.
Unfortunately, given the kid's nicknames and that he was carrying in an alley in the middle of the night I doubt he has much in the way of parenting.
Last edited by a moderator:
There are stills with the gun in his hand behind his back, facing the cop, split seconds before he drops it and raises his hands.
ETA: never mind, same ones Sand posted. Those are split seconds before he drops it and raises his hands.
Last edited by a moderator:
zoonation
Footballguy
It is tragic. But that cop, who will have to live with shooting that boy for the rest of his life, did absolutely nothing wrong.PinkydaPimp said:This is Terrible.
If his response to that situation is criminally (or morally) actionable, then we cannot ask anyone to assume the risk inherent in doing that job.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Oh i didnt say it was criminally actionable. Its a very sad situation(for both the officer and the boys family hence my comment). I do think the entire situation is something that should be a point of discussion. Could the cops have handled the situation better? Made a different order because the kid did comply? So maybe tell him to lay down instead? I dont know what the training is for that sort of situation. All i know is the number of people killed by police is very high and we should look at every incident for ways to improve because compared to other countries it appears we can do much better.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Unfortunately, we aren't going to do anything because of politics. For some reason conservatives who will protest with rifles and military fatigues over being asked to wear a mask in a pandemic. They will get totally bent out of shape if they think the government is going to infringe on their right to carry a gun. However, when the government kills a citizen in the street, they always take the side of the government. I am not sure why that is but if we are going to make any meaningful changes to the criminal justice system, we need buy in from the crowd that is the loudest about their individual freedoms to adjust on the issue.
Similar threads
