timschochet
Footballguy
The person being killed has to be a minority; only in THAT instance do they very often take the side of the government. Why? Not because they’re racist, but because they’re intent on denying racism.
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Another killing at the hands of the Police (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter In The Zone
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The best way to improve this situation is not to have a 13 year old kid in the alley at 2:30am with a gun. And it takes a village so the whole neighborhood should be focused on how to not have kids in the alleys at 2:30am with guns. But instead this 13 year old kid with a gun becomes some kind of martyr and absolutely nothing will change because it is the police we have to look at.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Of course but i don’t know the circumstances behind this yet. Was he autistic? Was he taken advantage of? Supposed to have been with a babysitter. Still there are potentially better ways to handle the situation but again i don’t know all the facts here nor does anyone .
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s a terrible fact. Certain conservatives want to deny systemic racism in our society, because it’s existence contradicts a core political belief they hold, which is that the civil rights movement “solved” racism and that we no longer have to concern ourselves with it; blacks and other minorities receive equal treatment. In order to perpetuate this denial, they rush to the defend the police anytime there is a controversial death of a black person. It should be acknowledged that certain liberals rush to the other side for exactly the same reason, because they are anxious to promote the idea that racism continues to exist, (I agree with the liberals on this, but that doesn’t mean that my “team” isn’t just as quick to take sides as the other guys; we are.)
Good God Tim, give it a rest. It was patently false. It is derogatory and inflammatory and bigoted. Probably the worst comment I have seen in a long time.
Most of the village has a few ideas on how to reduce the likelihood of kids and adults running around playing with guns.
A few of the villagers refuse to consider anything that would take guns out of the system.
djmich
Footballguy
You've gone from unthoughtfully entering threads and making your political proclamations without watching videos or attempting to understand facts (see cancel culture thread and the kid whos mum was threatened)....in the name of "because I'm right and you're a racist or deny racism"
To in-artfully not attempting to read what posters write and then either misstate or outright add content they never included (as you did to me several times in this thread)
To just totally making #### up. Link for your latest comment please? Are you going to hide as you have in the past behind "i meant conservative politicians not like you know the people I'm pretending to talk to on this message board" or maybe because you just know.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Oh no I’m referring to people here. There are plenty of posters here who rush to defend the police whenever a black person is killed in a controversial manner. That’s just a fact.
djmich
Footballguy
If only that was what you said and people are responding too. So its not that you change others argument to fit your next point....you actually change even what you said lol
You're a joke man
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Maybe Tim needed to qualify it more, but there are several posters in here who have posted that there is no systemic racism. I won't put words in his mouth that he was talking about that or comment on the rest of the posts, but we can't deny that those posts haven't been made in these threads.
djmich
Footballguy
Can we actually focus on what he wrote instead of making #### up.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I am not disagreeing with what you are saying here, but it felt like there was a bit of a push back about the bolded being a part of of the BLM "mission statement".
I could be wrong and it was a squabble about the specific wording, not the idea of the village helping.
That is because there has never been a thread about a white person getting shot, because people on the left only focus on minorities. The only well known case I can think of is the unarmed woman shot on January 6th and I saw not one person on the left even remotely concerned. My observation of it was the gross hypocrisy and how the left misused the shooting to spin the riots as deadly. The only people being racists are people on the left who seemly only have outrage for minority victims..
timschochet
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Fair enough. I focused on the "denying racism" part, not the rest. (and I didn't make #### up).
Questioning the level or existence of systematic racism is far different than the suggestion Tim made about bringing grossly racist about only supporting police if they shot minorities. That is a disgusting leap.
djmich
Footballguy
You can stand by an alien you made in arts and crafts and tell me its real if you want.
How about you show evidence of what you wrote. Who here has defended a police officer in a black shooting and then not defended the police officer in a comparable white shooting.
timschochet
Footballguy
Hey @djmich perhaps some of your comments should be saved for posts like this? Nothing I wrote comes close to this statement.
From 538 in August 2020:
Many Americans Are Convinced Crime Is Rising In The U.S. They’re Wrong
Still, the USA is an outlier in mass killings by guns, and overall homicides by guns, among developed countries. More cameras with AI could work as an early alert system. Guns aren't going away anytime soon.
Many Americans Are Convinced Crime Is Rising In The U.S. They’re Wrong
Still, the USA is an outlier in mass killings by guns, and overall homicides by guns, among developed countries. More cameras with AI could work as an early alert system. Guns aren't going away anytime soon.
timschochet
Footballguy
Nope. I’m not in the habit of naming individual posters. If you want to go back and read through this thread it’s a pretty obvious trend. What I wrote isn’t really controversial at all.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Correct. As far as I understand, overall crime rates are dipping, but mass shootings are rising.
I think mostly because it's not a crime of deperation, poverty, etc.. types like this are usually b/c of a grievence and one of the articles I linked said ones like this happens in clusters - ie one gives the idea to another.
I supported and have proof for that statement. Unless you can show me someone here who showed outrage over the unarmed woman shot on January 6th or even show an instance where there were postings about a white person getting shot by police. White people represent a large number perhaps half of police shootings, but crickets when it happens. In my book that is where the racism is.
djmich
Footballguy
Tim, jonmx wrote something I didn't agree with over the past two days and I specifically responded that I didn't agree and then actually constructively wrote why I didn't. If you'd like I'll find it for you when I free up.
I can't police every comment though and there's a lot of #### I don't respond to.
massraider
Footballguy
It's good that you've pointed that out, no one has done that before. And no one has shown that percentage-wise, black people are shot 2.5 times as often as white people. Native Americans 3 times as often.
https://news.yale.edu/2020/10/27/racial-disparity-police-shootings-unchanged-over-5-years
Keep gaslighting that misleading data point. Eventually, people will stop pointing out the uselessnss of it, and it will just become common knowledge, right?
Among unarmed victims, three times the rate. <_<
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In contrast, there is zero evidence of Tim's suggestion of conservatives taking a different position because of race of the shooting victim. Zero. If a white person was shot visibly resisting arrest and potentionally armed and threatening police, conservatives would still support the police action. The reason conservatives don't is because the left never brings those cases up. Bring up a case and see how the discussion goes. It will not be as Tim speculates.
timschochet
Footballguy
I really don’t care what you think of Jon’s comments. I was only pointing out that this one is far more controversial than mine.
Yes and that is because blacks are 5 times more likely to murder or commit violent act. The serious research does not indicate a strong racial bias in police shootings. There is a very strong undeniably racial bias (I would call it complete bias) in how they are reported.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Really? You brought up January 6 earlier. You might want to go back and read through the thread devoted to that topic. You shouldn’t need to since you played such a big part in it. Such as all the posts in which you blamed the Capitol Police for what happened. And you weren’t the only one.
What I wrote isn’t speculation. It’s observation, and I think it’s pretty clear eyed.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I blamed the police leadership for not being prepared for a major event which they knew had some threats of violence. I blamed the media for how they misrepresented the killing by using it to spin the riots as deadly. I criticized the left for being hypocrits on the police shootings. None of that remotely supports your sick suggestion.
On the other hand, I was probably the biggest critic of the DA in Alabama in how he handled the shooting of that black jogger by a group of whites lead by an ex-officer. That smelled of a racist lynching and a cover-up and I was very vocal about it.
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massraider
Footballguy
Why not just comply?
Kid complies. Gets shot.
What was he doing out late at night. It takes a village.
Blacks account for about 55 percent of murders while being 13 percent of the populate. So it is really not shocking they are more likely to be involved in violent confrontations with police.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
Chicago Trib had a very thoughtful oped about this today. Adam was put into a special needs group, as has been noted in this thread. An implication is that he was isolated with the same several other special needs kids throughout the school day. It was not an ideal situation for forming key friendships/relationships at a formative age. Not that surprising, then, that he developed other bonds on the streets in his neighborhood.
So probably a lot of fingers could be pointed here - school; family; social systems; etc. - to explain why Adam was on the streets at 2:30 a.m. with a gangbanger. Lots of systemic issues in Adam's and other's minority communities. Sad and unfortunate, all the way around.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Gotcha, thanks. My brain wasn't doing math right this morning pre-coffee.
Not that I have looked it up, but I wonder how much of this is regional and if this ratio holds up per region. I would guess that a large portion of that is inner city/gang related? What I am saying is that reasoning would hold up for police encounters in Chicago, but not for Vermont. Just curious if the encounters, arrests, shootings mirror the %s within these regions.
quick-hands
Footballguy
At 3 am. I dont think you have time to make that decision of how to make things better.
djmich
Footballguy
I would think the trends tend to follow regional trends.
I'm not sure the right way to say this without it being a "zinger" because I'm truly not trying to make it a zinger. But to your point, most of this is occurring in the large urban centers, which have for an eternity have been managed by one political party, democrats. I don't doubt their sincerity in wanted to see less crime and less people killed (any more than I doubt republicans)...but with singular domination of the system in these urban areas why haven't they been able to improve things.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
So at 3am anyone you chase gets shot? There cannot be a single thing to be learned from this because 3am? Got it.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Theres a lot to be learned. But at 3 am in an alley with a person holding a gun. Its going pretty much one direction, no?
quick-hands
Footballguy
As a white kid growing up in the 1970s detroit suburbs. My dad had that talk with me. Ive already had that talk with my daughter who is driving. And my son who is not. About 10x.
My sons wrestling coach not a cop gave the team a version of that talk.
My sons mma teacher who is a cop. Gave the class a version of the talk.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
It's a great question that I am not going to pretend to have many answers for. Are all also in D-majority states? Are there things that they try to do that get overruled on a state or federal level, or are the policies bad?
My gut reaction is that a decent portion has to do with the war on drugs, and both parties have dropped the ball there, and that's a Federal issue. Also, I would guess there is only so much a mayor of a city can do - ie the constant example of Chicago's gun rules not working when they are also surrounded by states an hour away that don't have the same rules.
djmich
Footballguy
Yes, agree with this. Only thing is guns are guns. This is not changing. We can ban AR-15's and a bunch of other stuff thats being talked about...but people are putting false hope here (even if the bans go into effect).
Policing is not federal though. This can be controlled by state/county/city. Social programs at the state/county/city level. So much discretion.
To your point I think there is generally blue city to blue state alignment (LA, NYC, CHI)...but not universal
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