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Another killing at the hands of the Police (4 Viewers)

PinkydaPimp said:
12 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:
From 2014 piece on 538

We found to our surprise that residency requirements did not improve confidence,” Murphy said in a recent interview. Quite the opposite: Residency requirements were correlated with less public confidence in the police, specifically in the police force’s ability to protect its citizens.

Murphy thinks the explanation lies in the constraints the requirement puts on a department’s recruitment efforts, though he hasn’t been able to test the theory. In the paper, Murphy and Worrall concluded tentatively that “it is possible that the critics of residency requirements are correct — the limitations on hiring pools, for example, could lead to poor personnel choices and a less qualified commissioned officer corps.”
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That is interesting.  I would be curious to know how long they lived there for starters as i dont expect relationships to be built overnight.  I would be curious to know what these constraints are they reference.  I guess you do shrink the talent pool but make it worth their while and you should be able to solve that problem.  I'll have to try to find the study.  It looks interesting.
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yes

 
parasaurolophus said:
PinkydaPimp said:
That is interesting.  I would be curious to know how long they lived there for starters as i dont expect relationships to be built overnight.  I would be curious to know what these constraints are they reference.  I guess you do shrink the talent pool but make it worth their while and you should be able to solve that problem.  I'll have to try to find the study.  It looks interesting.
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The areas that really could use the best connection with officers arent places people really want to move to. You almost have to start a program in high school. Make sure they graduate, offer them employment, train them, retain them in the area they grew up. 
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yes

How do you think you retain them?

 
djmich said:
Yes, agree with this.  Only thing is guns are guns.  This is not changing.  We can ban AR-15's and a bunch of other stuff thats being talked about...but people are putting false hope here (even if the bans go into effect).

Policing is not federal though.  This can be controlled by state/county/city.  Social programs at the state/county/city level.  So much discretion.

To your point I think there is generally blue city to blue state alignment (LA, NYC, CHI)...but not universal 
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As I did some dishes here, my other question is we just brought up that crime is going down overall in the US, so I that also reflected in big cities or not? 

No, policing is not Federal but we are talking crime and encounters with cops here.   Like I said, I think a lot of of that is poverty and war on drug related combined with the sheer number of people in huge cities.   I don't have an answer on how much of a dent I would expect a mayor of a city to be able to make on those things by themselves.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
As I did some dishes here, my other question is we just brought up that crime is going down overall in the US, so I that also reflected in big cities or not? 

No, policing is not Federal but we are talking crime and encounters with cops here.   Like I said, I think a lot of of that is poverty and war on drug related combined with the sheer number of people in huge cities.   I don't have an answer on how much of a dent I would expect a mayor of a city to be able to make on those things by themselves.  
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Criminality of drugs is huge agree.

 
JAA said:
Why do you believe this is the case?  What is causing this?
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At some point the black community needs to take a hard look from within and stop blaming external forces.  The crime and violence, the breakdown of the family, the resulting poor educational environment, the segregation.  We have had decades and decades of focusing on external forces and there have been vast improvements there, but we have not seen the results, in fact some have gotten worse.  For all it faults, African-americans represent the greatest success story on a significant scale for Black in the world, and yet all these major problems still exist.  Racism is taboo and society as a whole widely condemns it.  We have laws for fair housing and against all types of discrimination.  Hate speech is condemned.  We could throw tons more money at inner city schools and they would still be cesspool of violence.  At some point they have to be honest and admit the problem is not some systemic racism by police, but the excessive amount of gang-banging street violence which plagues these inner city neighborhood. 

I really think if more blacks would break free from the inner-cities, they would be much better off.   But blacks are disproportionately concerned about racism and seem more comfortable being segregated in the inner-cities despite how clearly they are a terrible environment to raise children in.  

 
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jon_mx said:
On the other hand, I was probably the biggest critic of the DA in Alabama in how he handled the shooting of that black jogger by a group of whites lead by an ex-officer.  That smelled of a racist lynching and a cover-up and I was very vocal about it. 
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Ahmaud Arbery?  That was in Georgia.  Otherwise I don't remember the case you're talking about (I'm in AL, so this memory hole is disturbing).  Link?

 
jon_mx said:
JAA said:
Why do you believe this is the case?  What is causing this?
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At some point the black community needs to take a hard look from within and stop blaming external forces.  The crime and violence, the breakdown of the family, the resulting poor educational environment, the segregation.  We have had decades and decades of focusing on external forces and there have been vast improvements there, but we have not seen the results, in fact some have gotten worse.  For all it faults, African-americans represent the greatest success story on a significant scale for Black in the world, and yet all these major problems still exist.  Racism is taboo and society as a whole widely condemns it.  We have laws for fair housing and against all types of discrimination.  Hate speech is condemned.  We could throw tons more money at inner city schools and they would still be cesspool of violence.  At some point they have to be honest and admit the problem is not some systemic racism by police, but the excessive amount of gang-banging street violence which plagues these inner city neighborhood. 

I really think if more blacks would break free from the inner-cities, they would be much better off.   But blacks are disproportionately concerned about racism and seem more comfortable being segregated in the inner-cities despite how clearly they are a terrible environment to raise children in.  
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To the first bolded:  You havnt provided a solution except "needs to take a hard look from within and stop blaming external forces".  Is that your proposal?  I mean, it sounds a lot like bootstraps, doesnt it?  Is that the only proposal you have to get out of this?

To the second bolded:  I would like to respectfully ask how you came to this conclusion.  How do you personally know what they are comfortable with and concerned with?  What are you basing your opinions off off?

Thank you

 
jon_mx said:
At some point the black community needs to take a hard look from within and stop blaming external forces.  The crime and violence, the breakdown of the family, the resulting poor educational environment, the segregation.  We have had decades and decades of focusing on external forces and there have been vast improvements there, but we have not seen the results, in fact some have gotten worse.  For all it faults, African-americans represent the greatest success story on a significant scale for Black in the world, and yet all these major problems still exist.  Racism is taboo and society as a whole widely condemns it.  We have laws for fair housing and against all types of discrimination.  Hate speech is condemned.  We could throw tons more money at inner city schools and they would still be cesspool of violence.  At some point they have to be honest and admit the problem is not some systemic racism by police, but the excessive amount of gang-banging street violence which plagues these inner city neighborhood. 

I really think if more blacks would break free from the inner-cities, they would be much better off.   But blacks are disproportionately concerned about racism and seem more comfortable being segregated in the inner-cities despite how clearly they are a terrible environment to raise children in.  
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Any suggestions on how to accomplish this?  Dont you need money to break free from the inner city?  How can we improve upward mobility?  And what forces do you think are impeding this?  Ive already posted two large studys showing roadblocks for POC and home ownership and real estate.  Maybe we address that first?

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Any suggestions on how to accomplish this?  Dont you need money to break free from the inner city?  How can we improve upward mobility?  And what forces do you think are impeding this?  Ive already posted two large studys showing roadblocks for POC and home ownership and real estate.  Maybe we address that first?
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The land itself isn't the problem (it's not haunted or anything), so no driving need to abandon it.  The problems will follow the people. There are some cycles taking place in the population that can be ameliorated, though.  Way too many babies are born without the requisite family structures needed to support them.  I don't know what the family of that 13 year old who just got shot looks like, but I'll hazard, given that he's known as "Lil' Homicide" and had a gun in an alley at 2AM, he didn't have strong parental guidance in his life.  That's tragic to begin with.  Start with triage - massively expanded contraceptive services offered to those populations to allow for babies to be born when wanted, not by happenstance.  Then implement a Manhattan Project on developing stable family units in these areas.

We have some very concrete examples of Asian populations migrating in and immediately becoming successful due to the very strong family units that they maintain.  It's a powerful lesson to learn from for all of us (single parenthood is climbing for all racial populations - this is a very bad thing).

 
Sand said:
The land itself isn't the problem (it's not haunted or anything), so no driving need to abandon it.  The problems will follow the people. There are some cycles taking place in the population that can be ameliorated, though.  Way too many babies are born without the requisite family structures needed to support them.  I don't know what the family of that 13 year old who just got shot looks like, but I'll hazard, given that he's known as "Lil' Homicide" and had a gun in an alley at 2AM, he didn't have strong parental guidance in his life.  That's tragic to begin with.  Start with triage - massively expanded contraceptive services offered to those populations to allow for babies to be born when wanted, not by happenstance.  Then implement a Manhattan Project on developing stable family units in these areas.

We have some very concrete examples of Asian populations migrating in and immediately becoming successful due to the very strong family units that they maintain.  It's a powerful lesson to learn from for all of us (single parenthood is climbing for all racial populations - this is a very bad thing).
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Asian populations also werent enslaved for 400 years in this country and subject to Jim crow and systemic racism.  IMO the issue is the poverty cycle.  Break that(or at least make it proportionate to the population), allow them to move to places that have better outcomes, upward mobility, and education.  Places that are safe and not crime ridden.  Places where you see other people like you that have success that isnt from being a drug dealer, athlete or rapper.  That other stuff will all fall into line when this happens.  My fear though is the opposite is happening.   

I have no doubt that if i grew up in the worst part of Detroit, coming from a long line of poverty, and uneducated parents, i would not be where i am today.  Or at the very least it would be EXTREMELY difficult to get here.  But i didnt.  I grew up in a wealthy neighborhood in a well educated family.   As did most of my friends.  Break the poverty cycle and you will see family units fall in line with the norm and many other problems will be resolved.  Not only that, it forces integration and diversity which help EVERYONE!!!  It helps reduce bias!  Which should help reduce issues we are discussing in this very thread.

Now there will always be poverty.  But it shouldn't be that certain races are disproportionately living in poverty.  And have been since... well, you all took a history class.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
IMO the issue is the poverty cycle.  Break that(or at least make it proportionate to the population), allow them to move to places that have better outcomes, upward mobility, and education.  Places that are safe and not crime ridden.  Places where you see other people like you that have success that isnt from being a drug dealer, athlete or rapper.  That other stuff will all fall into line when this happens.  My fear though is the opposite is happening.   
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They feed off of each other.  Incremental gains in one should help the other.  I guess the opposite of a death spiral - a life spiral?

The other item we need to have a very hard look at is implementing a school voucher system on a national scale.  If we've learned anything in this pandemic it's that public teacher unions don't give a rip about the kids and have dramatically injured minority children.  We need a new system where the money follows the child and isn't funneled into union control for their own power and prestige.  This is now the civil rights fight of the century.  If we can't educate our kids they'll never have opportunity.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Any suggestions on how to accomplish this?  Dont you need money to break free from the inner city?  How can we improve upward mobility?  And what forces do you think are impeding this?  Ive already posted two large studys showing roadblocks for POC and home ownership and real estate.  Maybe we address that first?
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No.  Apply for jobs in different areas and move.  People everyday relocated to new places with virtually nothing and they make it work.  

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Any suggestions on how to accomplish this?  Dont you need money to break free from the inner city?  How can we improve upward mobility?  And what forces do you think are impeding this?  Ive already posted two large studys showing roadblocks for POC and home ownership and real estate.  Maybe we address that first?
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We've done this multiple times with the same result GB.  We being you and me specifically with various posters.

 
djmich said:
Criminality of drugs is huge agree.
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I think so.  Increases the encounters for petty drug crimes and the war on drugs has been shown to have a dramatic effect on black communities moreso than white communities.   I think addressing the war on drugs would be a huge first step.  

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Asian populations also werent enslaved for 400 years in this country and subject to Jim crow and systemic racism.  IMO the issue is the poverty cycle.  Break that(or at least make it proportionate to the population), allow them to move to places that have better outcomes, upward mobility, and education.  Places that are safe and not crime ridden.  Places where you see other people like you that have success that isnt from being a drug dealer, athlete or rapper.  That other stuff will all fall into line when this happens.  My fear though is the opposite is happening.   

I have no doubt that if i grew up in the worst part of Detroit, coming from a long line of poverty, and uneducated parents, i would not be where i am today.  Or at the very least it would be EXTREMELY difficult to get here.  But i didnt.  I grew up in a wealthy neighborhood in a well educated family.   As did most of my friends.  Break the poverty cycle and you will see family units fall in line with the norm and many other problems will be resolved.  Not only that, it forces integration and diversity which help EVERYONE!!!  It helps reduce bias!  Which should help reduce issues we are discussing in this very thread.

Now there will always be poverty.  But it shouldn't be that certain races are disproportionately living in poverty.  And have been since... well, you all took a history class.
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Poverty, red lining issues and education continue to be the three main issues I see every single day with people trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.  And it's been across the states of NC, SC, OH, and FL

 
The Commish said:
Poverty, red lining issues and education continue to be the three main issues I see every single day with people trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.  And it's been across the states of NC, SC, OH, and FL
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Same thing everywhere sadly.  And it will never change when people like jon can’t admit these roadblocks are still lingering.  It’s almost like some folks don’t want these changes to happen. 🤔

The Commish said:
We've done this multiple times with the same result GB.  We being you and me specifically with various posters.
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Yea i know.  I figured i would give it one more go but alas.

jon_mx said:
No.  Apply for jobs in different areas and move.  People everyday relocated to new places with virtually nothing and they make it work.  
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See above.  I know you want to believe it’s that easy.  And maybe it is for you.  But not everyone can do this.  I’ve posted many many examples of how difficult that can be to do.

 
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KarmaPolice said:
I think so.  Increases the encounters for petty drug crimes and the war on drugs has been shown to have a dramatic effect on black communities moreso than white communities.   I think addressing the war on drugs would be a huge first step.  
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In the states that have legalized marijuana do we see any changes? I know some of the early adopter states dont have large black populations, but there should be some data building. Is it helping? 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
See above.  I know you want to believe it’s that easy.  And maybe it is for you.  But not everyone can do this.  I’ve posted many many examples of how difficult that can be to do.
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I think I read in the last couple weeks that black people were actually more likely to move to a different state. That surprised me. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
I think I read in the last couple weeks that black people were actually more likely to move to a different state. That surprised me. 
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More likely to move than stay?  I mean in some places that are gentrifying i could see that.  And where i live everyone is moving out of state regardless of race because it’s HCOL.  Now if you are living in poverty in one state and that area gentrifys and you are forced to leave you move to a lower cost of living city usually down south or at least that’s what I’ve seen.  However i would bet they still remain under the poverty line even if they move and still end up in a less desirable location.  

 
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parasaurolophus said:
In the states that have legalized marijuana do we see any changes? I know some of the early adopter states dont have large black populations, but there should be some data building. Is it helping? 
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I would like to see this as well.  Especially areas where they expunged records.  Would need a long term study though.  However i do think this will help things as less people are incarcerated.  

 
parasaurolophus said:
In the states that have legalized marijuana do we see any changes? I know some of the early adopter states dont have large black populations, but there should be some data building. Is it helping? 
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Very good question.  Isn't been going on long enough that there should be some data pre-post legalization.   I think Illinois was just a year or so ago, but states like OR, Colorado, Cali have been years, no?

 
KarmaPolice said:
Very good question.  Isn't been going on long enough that there should be some data pre-post legalization.   I think Illinois was just a year or so ago, but states like OR, Colorado, Cali have been years, no?
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I remember reading early on when it was legalized that in some cities the police didn’t want it legalized.  And since testing for weed can come back positive within 30 days people were getting duis days after smoking.  Even more concerning one precinct officers could run your plate and see if you had the marijuana card and would profile based on that.  I think they have shut that down but pretty wild.  

 
timschochet said:
The person being killed has to be a minority; only in THAT instance do they very often take the side of the government. Why? Not because they’re racist, but because they’re intent on denying racism.
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I don't think it's all about race. Race is a factor but not the only one. I don't see conservatives up in arms about Peyton Ham, the white kid killed by the government in his driveway while holding a toy gun. For reasons that I believe are more complex than race, conservatives obsession with liberty from the tyranny of government does not include police killing citzens. That seems to me to be a huge flaw in the ideology at the moment.

and yes I do know conservatives are a massive group and among them there are a wide variety of beliefs. I am speaking to what seems to be the vocal thought leaders we see on TV and the internet that likely drive a lot of the conversation. 

 
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PinkydaPimp said:
I remember reading early on when it was legalized that in some cities the police didn’t want it legalized.  And since testing for weed can come back positive within 30 days people were getting duis days after smoking.  Even more concerning one precinct officers could run your plate and see if you had the marijuana card and would profile based on that.  I think they have shut that down but pretty wild.  
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When speaking about decriminalizing drugs, which ones would you move into the 'not a crime' bucket?  Weed only or others?  If others, what cutoff would you want to see - assuming there are some narcotics that you would agree remain a crime to possess or distribute.  Thanks.  

 
Ilov80s said:
I don't think it's all about race. Race is a factor but not the only one. I don't see conservatives up in arms about Peyton Ham, the white kid killed by the government in his driveway while holding a toy gun. For reasons that I believe are more complex than race, conservatives obsession with liberty from the tyranny of government does not include police killing citzens. That seems to me to be a huge flaw in the ideology at the moment.

and yes I do know conservatives are a massive group and among them there are a wide variety of beliefs. I am speaking to what seems to be the vocal thought leaders we see on TV and the internet that likely drive a lot of the conversation. 
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Its interesting, because another poster implied just earlier this morning that conservatives only hold the government responsible when a white person is the victim.

This is hard because while I can't speak for everyone, I generally don't get up in arms about things because frankly I can't afford to be up in arms about every issue and every death and every whatever, including what happened to Petyon Ham which I'm sure was a tragedy.  That's where all the miserable twitter people come in.  Its not about tyranny though.  I care...otherwise I wouldn't waste time on a message board talking about it and donating to charities.  But also a huge element for me as a rational person (I also think that this is more a feature of conservative thinking)...is that I'm not going to get up in arms about things that statistically don't seem warranted.  At face value that probably seems terrible, particularly to folks on the left, but I'm not programmed to either ignore the underlying math or frankly live based on emotion and the math is irrelevant.  Those of course aren't bad people, often well intended, but data and math doesn't suddenly not get to exist.

Doesn't mean that bad things happening is ok or shouldn't be addressed by the people hired to address these things or that we shouldn't talk about them and vote for the people to implement what we want.  It doesn't mean we can't observe when the math is particularly punitive for black people and that can influence our thinking about the issue if warranted ...but for me I can only talk about them in the context of data and overall sense of magnitude not just based on the latest video (but they do influence me because I am human).  I also have a hard time justifying the implementation of changes based on the impacts to one population based on the color of their skin, I'm not lobbying for police reform on the back of a dozen more Peyton Ham murders because she was white.

There's the famous Joseph Stalin quote "One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic".  I think it represents well that there are flaws at either end of that thinking.  The 13yr old that just got shot is an absolute tragedy.  The mistaken Tazer shooting a tragedy as well.  It was horrible, but we see these things on video or even read about them and they create a statistically skewed bias as to the magnitude.  Every life is important and we should be focused on improving, but there is the reality of administering a nation of 330MM people, many of which are violent, and the inevitable casualties that will result, particularly for the people that refuse to comply.  Mistakes will be made, humans are fallible and when you extrapolate that across tens of millions of interactions people will die.  That will not stop until the next 10 mile wide comet arrives.

On the other end of the spectrum of Stalin's quote, I posted a few days ago about 250,000 deaths in the US annually due to medical malpractice....and nobody blinked an eye.  Who is up in arms?  Guess we need more videos.  Unfortunately in 2021, if we really want people to care it would need to be videos of black people or to show that black people are disproportionally harmed.  To the posters point...I don't think the right is going to suddenly start caring either way, but when its discovered that black people make up 15% of the deaths...thats when many on the left will begin to care (I was very intentional to indicate not all).  

Point is...we should be working to improve policing, we should be working to improve medical procedures.  If we really cared about lives, a lot more would be saved if we were up in arms about the latter...but we're not we are more concerned with politics and in-groups.  We are exponentially more up in arms about the former and creating an immense amount of hate around the former and there is no doubt in my mind we are creating chain reactions that are are actually ending more lives than otherwise would have through the fear cycle.  And here we are.

 
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Ilov80s said:
For reasons that I believe are more complex than race, conservatives obsession with liberty from the tyranny of government does not include police killing citzens. That seems to me to be a huge flaw in the ideology at the moment.
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There is no flaw. 

Police are people. People that are put into situations where they have to make split second decisions. The government almost never makes split second decisions. When a law is passed or a mandate occurs there is the benefit of time and deliberation. 

I dont view what happened with Adam Toledo as an action of the government. I view it as a reaction by an officer. There is no policy or law that they were enforcing that I disagree with. 

Some conservative friends of mine were quite upset about the breonna taylor incident. Not because they were mad at the actual officers, but because it was a policy that created that situation. 

I dont view what happened with Daunte Wright as a 20 year old father being accidentally killed because of expired plates. I view it as a 20 year old criminal that is dangerous and tried to escape punishment and remain at large leading to a chaotic situation where he was killed. 

That is why the George Floyd incident had almost universal condemnation. It wasnt split second. It was drawn out. He was cuffed. 

 
Sand said:
They feed off of each other.  Incremental gains in one should help the other.  I guess the opposite of a death spiral - a life spiral?

The other item we need to have a very hard look at is implementing a school voucher system on a national scale.  If we've learned anything in this pandemic it's that public teacher unions don't give a rip about the kids and have dramatically injured minority children.  We need a new system where the money follows the child and isn't funneled into union control for their own power and prestige.  This is now the civil rights fight of the century.  If we can't educate our kids they'll never have opportunity.
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This!!!!!  And if they don’t have opportunity what do you think they are going to do?

 
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Sinn Fein said:
VandyMan said:
Not a "mass" shooting, but another school shooting. Not great.

Knoxville, TN

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/12/knoxville-tennessee-high-school-shooting-one-dead-one-injured/7196240002/
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WTF??

Josh Moon  @Josh_Moon · 2h

Cops shot and killed a 17-year-old in a school bathroom and justified it by saying he shot a cop. They've now admitted the cop accidentally shot himself and suddenly no one is willing to say exactly what happened.

I am not saying that the police have no credibility right now, but lets just say, I don't believe many things they say.
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I posted this in the other thread, because it was the only link I could find to the initial story of the school shooting in Nashville.  But, it probably is better in this thread.

 
Sand said:
Idle hands problem.  We know the outcome.

As an aside, the same reason I'm much against a UBI.  Idle hands just get into trouble.
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As far as I understand, UBI isn't meant to give a full income, and the proposals I've seen are instead of welfare programs.   I just find it odd when one side pictures people sitting on their ### all day and others seem to picture parents staying at more b/c they might not have to work that 2nd job, having money for tutors or clubs, etc...  Stuff that would help some of the issues that we are talking about.  At the very least, I don't think it's any worse than the #s we have on government $ now. 

 
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KarmaPolice said:
As far as I understand, UBI isn't meant to give a full income, and the proposals I've seen are instead of welfare programs.   I just find it odd when one side pictures people sitting on their ### all day and others seem to picture parents staying at more b/c they might not have to work that 2nd job, having money for tutors or clubs, etc...  Stuff that would help some of the issues that we are talking about.  At the very least, I don't think it's any worse than the #s we have on government $ now. 
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Up for debate, but we can see right now at least one effect of a UBI in the form of current unemployment payments - businesses are having an impossible time getting help.  People are choosing to live off the free money.  UBI is that for life.

 
Sand said:
Up for debate, but we can see right now at least one effect of a UBI in the form of current unemployment payments - businesses are having an impossible time getting help.  People are choosing to live off the free money.  UBI is that for life.
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My understanding was they were beefed up a bit b/c of COVID, or people could be choosing to stay home because of that.   

But like I said, do we have stats on % of people who were fully employed and not going back b/c of the $?  Are some maybe parents that were doing a p/t job that don't need to?   One of the dozens of things I need to read up on more I guess.  Lol.  

 
Sand said:
Up for debate, but we can see right now at least one effect of a UBI in the form of current unemployment payments - businesses are having an impossible time getting help.  People are choosing to live off the free money.  UBI is that for life.
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My company has a decent sized call center.  Crazy hard to get people right now with the COVID benefits situation, why not just stay home govt gonna take care of it. 

 
djmich said:
Rashida Tlaib  🤣

It wasn't an accident. Policing in our country is inherently & intentionally racist. 

Daunte Wright was met with aggression & violence. I am done with those who condone government funded murder. 

No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed.
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Tlaib getting destroyed here locally.     Detroit Police Chief James Craig was on local TV ripping Tlaib for her rhetoric.  Tlaib was also getting ripping by Mitch Albom who is as liberal as they come saying she is part of the problem not the solution, that she makes things worse not better.  Local radio Radio and TV not on her side.

The problem is she moved into a district that Dems run unopposed and took John Conyers seat. Conyers had been in congress forever and never ran against anyone.  It is a low income, low voter turnout district.  Now it was just reported Tlaib never lived in that district but used an address to get on the ballot.

 
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djmich said:
My company has a decent sized call center.  Crazy hard to get people right now with the COVID benefits situation, why not just stay home govt gonna take care of it. 
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IMO it's hard to look at the last year for something like this.  How much is benefits, and how much is not wanting to risk infection? 

Different businesses, but our restaurant lost a good dozen people over the last year because they didn't want to be exposed.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
IMO it's hard to look at the last year for something like this.  How much is benefits, and how much is not wanting to risk infection? 

Different businesses, but our restaurant lost a good dozen people over the last year because they didn't want to be exposed.  
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Yes, I think its informative but for sure not an isolated test.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
IMO the issue is the poverty cycle.  Break that(or at least make it proportionate to the population), allow them to move to places that have better outcomes, upward mobility, and education.  Places that are safe and not crime ridden.  Places where you see other people like you that have success that isnt from being a drug dealer, athlete or rapper.  That other stuff will all fall into line when this happens.  My fear though is the opposite is happening.   
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Just a bit of illustration to the point on family units.

 
Sand said:
Just a bit of illustration to the point on family units.
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Per wiki:

Overall, black Americans are arrested at 2.6 times the per-capita rate of all other Americans, and this ratio is even higher for murder (6.3 times) and robbery (8.1 times)

Add to that war on drugs and the higher impact it had on the black community.  I am not saying that is all of it, but it I would guess that is a decent chunk of that discrepancy.  

 
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KarmaPolice said:
Per wiki:

Overall, black Americans are arrested at 2.6 times the per-capita rate of all other Americans, and this ratio is even higher for murder (6.3 times) and robbery (8.1 times)

Add to that war on drugs and the higher impact it had on the black community.  I am not saying that is all of it, but it I would guess that is a decent chunk of that discrepancy.  
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There was a pretty comprehensive study done by one of Clinton's main secretaries.  Can't remember which one.  The correlation between young, unwed motherhood and basically every poor outcome was off the charts.

 
Sand said:
There was a pretty comprehensive study done by one of Clinton's main secretaries.  Can't remember which one.  The correlation between young, unwed motherhood and basically every poor outcome was off the charts.
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I don't doubt it.  I am just saying that there could be factors in those communities strongly influences those stats as to why there would be a higher number young unwed mothers raising kids themselves.  

 
Sand said:
Just a bit of illustration to the point on family units.
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That looks to me like education is a huge factor.  Also, look at income:

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-median-household-income-and-share-of-births-to-unwed-mothers/

Last week I featured the top chart in a CD post that shows the percentage of US births to unmarried women by race in 2017. In a comment on that post, James Quigley wrote “It looks like you could reverse it and it would fit nicely with the stats on income by race. Asians highest, then white, then Hispanic, then black.”

The bottom chart above shows graphically the relationship in 2017 between: a) US median household income by race (blue bars) and b) the share of US births to unmarried women by race (gray bars).

As James Quigley suggests, there is an obvious and pretty clear pattern of a statistically significant inverse relationship between median household income and the share of births to unwed mothers by race (correlation coefficient = -0.998).
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I think we all agree family units are important.  And it seems quite evident education and income play a factor.  I would argue income leads to better education.  Which in turn seems to lead to better family units which lead to better outcomes for children. 

 
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