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Another killing at the hands of the Police


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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Sand said:

That's why it's disappointing to see the reactions of "cops killing another minority" in cases like Adam Toledo.  Cop knew he had a gun and had a split second (literally) to make a decision.  All while his own fight or flight center was going nuts.  We can't expect cops to be automatons; as sad as it is to lose a young man like that I can't fault the officer for firing there.  And he should get backup from his management, the city management, and the citizenry.  

The response from the city was an insane order to have officers ask permission to chase suspects on foot.  :tfp:

It is completely obvious they dont actually want to solve anything.

It is la la land. They want to decrease violence by banning assault rifles, letting more people out of jail, and blaming all other negatives on the system or lack of funding. 

I am sorry, but democrats arent serious about any of these issues. Never have been. Thats why these problems are so bad in all-blue areas. 

Edited by parasaurolophus
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24 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

How about the media start doing spots on how to properly act when you are in a police interaction?  You know - keep your hands visible at all times, do not resist if they have to detain you, and the why behind both.  That is what’s absent in all these cop debates.  It’s a one-way street, and as a result people are behaving worse toward cops and it endangers everyone.

Again, one of the major issues with "just comply" is when it happens over and over again. How likely are you to "just comply" when you've gotten pulled over 5 times in the span of a few months? 10 times? After a while, the expectation to just sit and take it starts to become unreasonable.

On top of that, another major issue is when bad actions are swept away and/or there's little to no consequence for bad behavior by police. We know there are people that behave poorly. But they are often arrested and held accountable. The inverse isn't true. 

Stop the unnecessary profiling and excessive stops and hold officers accountable for bad actions and a lot of the negative perceptions of police will go away. It's not just the bad actions. It's the bad actions and getting away with it. 

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

I get the impression a lot of people would just be down with accountability on the cop side - can't turn off body cam, no more cops 100% defending cops no matter what, proper punishments when incidents happen.  I think we are seeing the tide turn this way, and I think that will go a long way help weed out the bad elements.  

and what is the accountability on the citizens side ? no more defending felons/criminals etc and turning the tides on those bad elements ?

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48 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Simple...they want your attention :shrug: 

or its agenda

what we can agree on is that its not fair and equal reporting of news 

 

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23 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I am sorry, but democrats arent serious about any of these issues. Never have been. Thats why these problems are so bad in all-blue areas.

truth

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14 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Again, one of the major issues with "just comply" is when it happens over and over again. How likely are you to "just comply" when you've gotten pulled over 5 times in the span of a few months? 10 times? After a while, the expectation to just sit and take it starts to become unreasonable

what did you do wrong to get pulled over that many times ?

almost every case of police shooting citizens, the citizens were armed and fighting

 

there is a responsibility for citizens to do things right too - do you not agree ? 

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On 4/16/2021 at 7:30 AM, jon_mx said:

That is because there has never been a thread about a white person getting shot, because people on the left only focus on minorities.  The only well known case I can think of is the unarmed woman shot on January 6th and I saw not one person on the left even remotely concerned.  My observation of it was the gross hypocrisy and how the left misused the shooting to spin the riots as deadly.  The only people being racists are people on the left who seemly only have outrage for minority victims.. 

I recall participating in a pretty involved discussion here about the Daniel Shaver shooting (the guy that got shot in the hotel hallway while on his hands and knees).

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24 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

and what is the accountability on the citizens side ? no more defending felons/criminals etc and turning the tides on those bad elements ?

you don't think there is punishment for resisting arrest, etc? 

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23 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

or its agenda

what we can agree on is that its not fair and equal reporting of news 

 

Getting and keeping your attention IS their agenda.  There isn't a single part of our "mainstream media" who is concerned with "fair and equal reporting of news".  That ship sailed a long time ago.  I'd throw a bone to NPR and the AP as exceptions in general.  The only choice you have is to give them what they want or not and as long as you're giving them what they want, nothing is going to change.

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

you don't think there is punishment for resisting arrest, etc? 

certainly but this fad of blaming the police every time citizens do wrong things and the reactions to those things escalate ..... it needs to stop

almost every person police shoot had weapons in their hands and didn't do what they needed to do as responsible citizens 

its time the full blame of their actions are talked about more than the responses their actions generate IMO

 

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Just now, The Commish said:

Getting and keeping your attention IS their agenda.  There isn't a single part of our "mainstream media" who is concerned with "fair and equal reporting of news".  That ship sailed a long time ago.  I'd throw a bone to NPR and the AP as exceptions in general.  The only choice you have is to give them what they want or not and as long as you're giving them what they want, nothing is going to change.

sad part, is that media controls the minds of way way too many people

 

that needs to stop

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Just now, The Commish said:

stop consuming it :shrug: 

I don't "consume" it so much as I do recognize it and try to see things for what they are

Heck people STILL think AR15 means automatic rifle. They STILL think AR15's are these massively powerful guns that shoot 100 rounds a second. 

Its amazing to watch how people are led towards believing fake things

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

I don't "consume" it so much as I do recognize it and try to see things for what they are

Heck people STILL think AR15 means automatic rifle. They STILL think AR15's are these massively powerful guns that shoot 100 rounds a second. 

Its amazing to watch how people are led towards believing fake things

If you aren't consuming it, how are you in these threads telling everyone what a problem CNN is or to stop watching CNN etc?  You're either consuming it or blindly asserting things you have no real grounds to be asserting on...that's called fishing around here.  It's one or the other...can't be both.

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41 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

certainly but this fad of blaming the police every time citizens do wrong things and the reactions to those things escalate ..... it needs to stop

almost every person police shoot had weapons in their hands and didn't do what they needed to do as responsible citizens 

its time the full blame of their actions are talked about more than the responses their actions generate IMO

 

time to ban guns, right?  It would make a cops job a lot safer! 

;)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

what did you do wrong to get pulled over that many times ?

almost every case of police shooting citizens, the citizens were armed and fighting

 

there is a responsibility for citizens to do things right too - do you not agree ? 

I didn't do anything wrong. Doesn't happen to me.

Some people were born just a bit too dark, though.

Edited by gianmarco
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3 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Again, one of the major issues with "just comply" is when it happens over and over again. How likely are you to "just comply" when you've gotten pulled over 5 times in the span of a few months? 10 times? After a while, the expectation to just sit and take it starts to become unreasonable.

On top of that, another major issue is when bad actions are swept away and/or there's little to no consequence for bad behavior by police. We know there are people that behave poorly. But they are often arrested and held accountable. The inverse isn't true. 

Stop the unnecessary profiling and excessive stops and hold officers accountable for bad actions and a lot of the negative perceptions of police will go away. It's not just the bad actions. It's the bad actions and getting away with it. 

I’ve never heard of anyone getting pulled over 5-10 times per month.  Do you think that’s what’s going on?

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2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

I don't "consume" it so much as I do recognize it and try to see things for what they are

Heck people STILL think AR15 means automatic rifle. They STILL think AR15's are these massively powerful guns that shoot 100 rounds a second. 

Its amazing to watch how people are led towards believing fake things

you do consume it- we have seen your links.  

Amazing that one side posts like they believe they are the only ones thinking for themselves and not falling for bad news 

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

If you aren't consuming it, how are you in these threads telling everyone what a problem CNN is or to stop watching CNN etc?  You're either consuming it or blindly asserting things you have no real grounds to be asserting on...that's called fishing around here.  It's one or the other...can't be both.

there's a possible 3rd option: places he is going are reporting a bit on what CNN is reporting.  seems like what is going on is: 

1.  liberal based media over reporting blacks getting shot. 

2.  conservative media over reporting about how CNN and liberal sites are over reporting blacks getting shot.  

great way for each to generate clicks and engage their target audiences 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

there's a possible 3rd option: places he is going are reporting a bit on what CNN is reporting.  seems like what is going on is: 

1.  liberal based media over reporting blacks getting shot. 

2.  conservative media over reporting about how CNN and liberal sites are over reporting blacks getting shot.  

great way for each to generate clicks and engage their target audiences 

"it" here would be our mainstream media outlets which includes those "conservative media" outlets reporting on CNN's reporting.  Apparently that's a thing?  I've seen things here like CNN reporting on how FoxNews is reporting as well.  They all seem to be circling the wagons to make sure they get the attention they want even if it's using other outlets in the media machine to do it.

ETA:  And if I'm being honest, this scenario would be even worse than just consuming the media directly.  That's a whole other level of lazy IMO.

Edited by The Commish
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3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

I don't "consume" it so much as I do recognize it and try to see things for what they are

Heck people STILL think AR15 means automatic rifle. They STILL think AR15's are these massively powerful guns that shoot 100 rounds a second. 

Its amazing to watch how people are led towards believing fake things

You tell this lie a couple times a week.   Who is telling you this?  

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43 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I didn't say per month. Please reread what you quoted.

And here is an anecdote to give an idea.

My bad.  Doing too much multitasking.  Your point is well taken.  Blacks are pulled over way too much, often for dumb things like a missing tag light.  I drive a black Lexus with tinted windows and flashy rims.  I got pulled over in a rural area with my 12 year old son in the car.  I was apparently rolled through a stop sign.  The cop profiled my car and came up to my car with gun in hand.  Scared the crap out of me.  I can’t imagine that happening on a frequent basis.

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12 hours ago, The Commish said:

"it" here would be our mainstream media outlets which includes those "conservative media" outlets reporting on CNN's reporting.  Apparently that's a thing?  I've seen things here like CNN reporting on how FoxNews is reporting as well.  They all seem to be circling the wagons to make sure they get the attention they want even if it's using other outlets in the media machine to do it.

ETA:  And if I'm being honest, this scenario would be even worse than just consuming the media directly.  That's a whole other level of lazy IMO.

Video clickbait at its finest.   I saw this a couple of mornings ago with MSNBC reporting about Fox and CRT.  I know FOx uses this tactic also involving the sites that don't agree with their side.

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2 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Video clickbait at its finest.   I saw this a couple of mornings ago with MSNBC reporting about Fox and CRT.  I know FOx uses this tactic also involving the sites that don't agree with their side.

Doesn't surprise me at all.  It's not any different than going to Facebook for your "news" these days.  Throw out there whatever will get you to look.

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4 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Video clickbait at its finest.   I saw this a couple of mornings ago with MSNBC reporting about Fox and CRT.  I know FOx uses this tactic also involving the sites that don't agree with their side.

Lol.  Awesome "news" reporting.   Basically just trying to throw the other guys under the bus and not trying to actually report something yourself.   

I know a handful of people here who claim they think for themselves and don't just follow blindly, but I do think it's interesting how often CNN and what they are reporting on is brought up in a day around here by those people.  

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16 hours ago, ekbeats said:

My bad.  Doing too much multitasking.  Your point is well taken.  Blacks are pulled over way too much, often for dumb things like a missing tag light.  I drive a black Lexus with tinted windows and flashy rims.  I got pulled over in a rural area with my 12 year old son in the car.  I was apparently rolled through a stop sign.  The cop profiled my car and came up to my car with gun in hand.  Scared the crap out of me.  I can’t imagine that happening on a frequent basis.

Posts like this are what starts up discussion and empathy (which IMO is lacking in this country).  

I don't think any of us who haven't been in situations like this have a leg to stand on when posting "just comply - it's not that hard".  We all have different reactions and thresholds under tense situations, and I am honestly not sure what my reaction would be if I got pulled over multiple times for what I would consider BS stops.  Even less if I had a gun drawn on me during a stop.    

Yes, I get the personal responsibility argument - don't speed, don't commit crimes, don't have tinted windows, etc.  But I don't think we can honestly say that 100% of these stops are justified, and I could 100% get somebody at the very least making an off handed comment after the 3rd, 4th, 5th time and it going south.  

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19 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

time to ban guns, right?  It would make a cops job a lot safer! 

;)

no, the problem isn't what weapon is being brandished - 80 million gun owners yesterday didn't threaten police with guns right ?

its the person deciding to do that action - that's the problem and when they get shot for it people blame police 

 

its bizarre  - nobody wants to hold people accountable for putting police in the situations they never want to be in 

 

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4 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Posts like this are what starts up discussion and empathy (which IMO is lacking in this country).  

I don't think any of us who haven't been in situations like this have a leg to stand on when posting "just comply - it's not that hard".  We all have different reactions and thresholds under tense situations, and I am honestly not sure what my reaction would be if I got pulled over multiple times for what I would consider BS stops.  Even less if I had a gun drawn on me during a stop.    

Yes, I get the personal responsibility argument - don't speed, don't commit crimes, don't have tinted windows, etc.  But I don't think we can honestly say that 100% of these stops are justified, and I could 100% get somebody at the very least making an off handed comment after the 3rd, 4th, 5th time and it going south.  

This is exactly it.  And its not even just that, they are getting profiled, roughed up, thrown in a van and let go, often none of which gets reported or tracked in statistics.  At a certain point you get sick of it. 

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7 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Posts like this are what starts up discussion and empathy (which IMO is lacking in this country).  

I don't think any of us who haven't been in situations like this have a leg to stand on when posting "just comply - it's not that hard".  We all have different reactions and thresholds under tense situations, and I am honestly not sure what my reaction would be if I got pulled over multiple times for what I would consider BS stops.  Even less if I had a gun drawn on me during a stop.    

Yes, I get the personal responsibility argument - don't speed, don't commit crimes, don't have tinted windows, etc.  But I don't think we can honestly say that 100% of these stops are justified, and I could 100% get somebody at the very least making an off handed comment after the 3rd, 4th, 5th time and it going south.  

Plus, even if not happening directly to you, knowing enough people that it has happened to. Hearing those stories over and over again.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/5/2021 at 12:37 PM, KarmaPolice said:

time to ban guns, right?  It would make a cops job a lot safer! 

;)

That's what I'm sayin!  You want to protect police officers, reduce the number of guns in the country to 1% of what it is now.

Edited by The Z Machine
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On 5/6/2021 at 4:03 PM, gianmarco said:

Plus, even if not happening directly to you, knowing enough people that it has happened to. Hearing those stories over and over again.

But THAT is the problem.  This fear of police is all based on anecdotal evidence which distorts reality 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

That's what I'm sayin!  You want to protect police officers, reduce the number of guns in the country to 1% of what it is now.

The only problem with that is that you have that pesky Constitution in your way.  If only we could get rid of it and make up our own NEW rules!

Revolution?

Edited by BladeRunner
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8 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

The only problem with that is that you have that pesky Constitution in your way.  If only we could get rid of it and make up our own NEW rules!

Revolution?

You don't have to get rid of the Constitution to make new rules. There are 27 amendments already. One of them repealing another.

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5 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

You don't have to get rid of the Constitution to make new rules. There are 27 amendments already. One of them repealing another.

But the Bill of Rights is a different animal.  I don't know that there is anything that says they absolutely can't be changed, but I don't want to live in a country where any of them are repealed, even #2.

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On 5/8/2021 at 5:42 AM, jon_mx said:

But THAT is the problem.  This fear of police is all based on anecdotal evidence which distorts reality 

When a large enough portion of your friends and family have these stories, it is your reality. 

I’ve posted this before, but a colleague of mine moved from Texas to suburban Chicago a few years ago.  He’s a very tall African American insurance executive who lives in a wealthy, mostly white suburb.....and he drives a sweet Mercedes.

In the first year he lived there, he was pulled over a LOT.  More than 1x per month.  Never received a ticket.  Wasn’t speeding (maybe 2-3 over, but not real speeding).   It’s a small suburb, so after a few months the cops would pull him over, walk up to his window and say “sorry Mr ABC, just making sure it was you.  Sorry for the hassle.”   He got pulled over 15-20 times in a year.   I never heard him complain about it — he just matter of factly told the story at lunch one day when people were talking about BLM, police reform, blah blah blah.

I can’t imagine being pulled over that often for doing nothing.  Our wives are friends too, and his wife (who is Hispanic) said “I never knew what profiling looked like until I started dating him.”

I asked him why more people don’t hear about this stuff.   His reply to me - in a nice tone - “it doesn’t happen to most white people so you don’t know about it personally, and most black folks assume white people either don’t want to hear about it or wouldn’t believe it if we told you.”

I recognize this is just more anecdotal evidence, but man, if you talk with enough black friends and co-workers, the above is not an atypical experience.

 

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2 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

When a large enough portion of your friends and family have these stories, it is your reality. 

I’ve posted this before, but a colleague of mine moved from Texas to suburban Chicago a few years ago.  He’s a very tall African American insurance executive who lives in a wealthy, mostly white suburb.....and he drives a sweet Mercedes.

In the first year he lived there, he was pulled over a LOT.  More than 1x per month.  Never received a ticket.  Wasn’t speeding (maybe 2-3 over, but not real speeding).   It’s a small suburb, so after a few months the cops would pull him over, walk up to his window and say “sorry Mr ABC, just making sure it was you.  Sorry for the hassle.”   He got pulled over 15-20 times in a year.   I never heard him complain about it — he just matter of factly told the story at lunch one day when people were talking about BLM, police reform, blah blah blah.

I can’t imagine being pulled over that often for doing nothing.  Our wives are friends too, and his wife (who is Hispanic) said “I never knew what profiling looked like until I started dating him.”

I asked him why more people don’t hear about this stuff.   His reply to me - in a nice tone - “it doesn’t happen to most white people so you don’t know about it personally, and most black folks assume white people either don’t want to hear about it or wouldn’t believe it if we told you.”

I recognize this is just more anecdotal evidence, but man, if you talk with enough black friends and co-workers, the above is not an atypical experience.

 

Did he have the same experience while living in Texas?

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Just now, Philo Beddoe said:

Did he have the same experience while living in Texas?

No, he didn’t as an adult.   He lived in a nice area that was more racially diverse.  Didn’t have the same experiences there that he had in suburban IL.   His father and brother had similar experiences in TX, but he himself did not.
 

 

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9 hours ago, Jayrod said:

But the Bill of Rights is a different animal.  I don't know that there is anything that says they absolutely can't be changed, but I don't want to live in a country where any of them are repealed, even #2.

I can't even name at least a few of the first ten amendments. And I am certainly not alone. There is nothing particularly important about a few of those compared to other amendments to our constitution

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32 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Hundreds of cases getting tossed due to corruption

Not quite what this thread is for, but just another example of how rampant stuff can be throughout an entire department and not just limited to one or two officers. 

Ill add this interesting article as well: https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/5/4/22419968/nypd-oversight-board-ccrb-overturned-cop-misconduct-findings

 

Quote

 

Several members of a board that probes NYPD misconduct regularly overturn their own staff’s investigative findings that wrongdoing occurred — helping to clear cops in hundreds of cases in recent years, an internal analysis obtained by THE CITY shows.

The process, known as “flipping” cases in Civilian Complaint Review Board parlance, represents a little-known layer in the lengthy police disciplinary process that has contributed to a wider reduction in officers facing punishment for misconduct.

 

 

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On 5/12/2021 at 3:09 PM, John123 said:

Four cops killed in the line of duty Monday in to Tuesday.  Something that doesn't get talked about much here.......

Does not promote the anti-cop agenda.  This article was in the USA Today:  

Bodycams haven't lived up to promises of exposing police misconduct

At first, "community advocates were vocally in support of cameras and police unions were opposed to them," Bueermann said. "And over time as camera footage has exonerated so many officers, now it is just the opposite."

It is funny how it was not truth the anti-police advocates wanted, but verification of their BS narrative that is spewed daily to the public.  

 

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10 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Does not promote the anti-cop agenda.  This article was in the USA Today:  

Bodycams haven't lived up to promises of exposing police misconduct

At first, "community advocates were vocally in support of cameras and police unions were opposed to them," Bueermann said. "And over time as camera footage has exonerated so many officers, now it is just the opposite."

It is funny how it was not truth the anti-police advocates wanted, but verification of their BS narrative that is spewed daily to the public.  

 

You omitted part of the title:  “Bodycams haven't lived up to promises of exposing police misconduct. One reason: The police decide what to release.

 

“Those cameras are supposed to enable the public to see what really happened when someone is killed by police. But the reality has not lived up to the promise. Police departments often get to decide what the public sees and when, exploiting exceptions in the law, selectively releasing clips, and even arguing against release based on a dead person's right to privacy. In some cases, videos have been released as public-relations tools.”

 

”"It's not a perfect technology. It's not the fantasy we all hoped for," Bueermann said. "Police still kill about 1,000 people a year, but cameras have absolutely improved policing."”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/16/police-body-cameras-have-mixed-legacy-criminal-justice-reform/5064170001/

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