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Another killing at the hands of the Police


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57 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Does not promote the anti-cop agenda.  This article was in the USA Today:  

Bodycams haven't lived up to promises of exposing police misconduct

At first, "community advocates were vocally in support of cameras and police unions were opposed to them," Bueermann said. "And over time as camera footage has exonerated so many officers, now it is just the opposite."

It is funny how it was not truth the anti-police advocates wanted, but verification of their BS narrative that is spewed daily to the public.  

 

Please provide a single example of anyone in here saying “bodycams suck because they are showing that police misconduct isn’t real.”

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On 5/12/2021 at 2:09 PM, John123 said:

Four cops killed in the line of duty Monday in to Tuesday.  Something that doesn't get talked about much here.......

What is stopping anyone from talking about it?

But lets understand why its a bigger story when innocent people die at the hands of the police.

Because people with power...sworn to protect the public...sometimes have abused that power.  And higher ups have covered for them.  That is the story.  That is the problem this thread is often about.

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2 hours ago, sho nuff said:

What is stopping anyone from talking about it?

But lets understand why its a bigger story when innocent people die at the hands of the police.

Because people with power...sworn to protect the public...sometimes have abused that power.  And higher ups have covered for them.  That is the story.  That is the problem this thread is often about.

Nothing's stopping anyone from talking about it.  There are a lot of things that don't get talked about on this board.  Pretty sad actually.

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2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Please provide a single example of anyone in here saying “bodycams suck because they are showing that police misconduct isn’t real.”

Please provide a link where I said someone in here did.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

You omitted part of the title:  “Bodycams haven't lived up to promises of exposing police misconduct. One reason: The police decide what to release.

 

“Those cameras are supposed to enable the public to see what really happened when someone is killed by police. But the reality has not lived up to the promise. Police departments often get to decide what the public sees and when, exploiting exceptions in the law, selectively releasing clips, and even arguing against release based on a dead person's right to privacy. In some cases, videos have been released as public-relations tools.”

 

”"It's not a perfect technology. It's not the fantasy we all hoped for," Bueermann said. "Police still kill about 1,000 people a year, but cameras have absolutely improved policing."”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/16/police-body-cameras-have-mixed-legacy-criminal-justice-reform/5064170001/

Sure there are multiple reasons.  BLM also is against mass surveilence technologies which criminalize and target black communities including body cameras.  Originally blm was in full support of body cameras, now many are backtracking and feel that body cameras are hurting and targeting blacks.  Some are advocating reforms to how they are used and others are wanting there use banned.  

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31 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Sure there are multiple reasons.  BLM also is against mass surveilence technologies which criminalize and target black communities including body cameras.  Originally blm was in full support of body cameras, now many are backtracking and feel that body cameras are hurting and targeting blacks.  Some are advocating reforms to how they are used and others are wanting there use banned.  

This is one of the major issues and there should be reform.  Police control what is released and whether the cams are even on(sometimes they arent on without penalty).  Sometimes the video doesnt get released or is heavily edited or the release delayed.  IMO the video should go to a third party, edited only to remove privacy infractions and then automatically released.  Maybe give Lawyers access to the full unedited recordings.  Im all for body cam video whether it exonerates an officer or a person interacting with them. 

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DA rules Andrew Brown shooting “justified”

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/18/us/andrew-brown-jr-press-conference/index.html
 

I have to say that I’m really bothered by the current situation. Some of these shootings really are justified. This one may have been; who knows?  But the problem is that, in each of these cases,  there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was unjustified and no amount of evidence will persuade them otherwise. Meanwhile there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was justified and no amount of evidence will persuade them either. 

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

DA rules Andrew Brown shooting “justified”

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/18/us/andrew-brown-jr-press-conference/index.html
 

I have to say that I’m really bothered by the current situation. Some of these shootings really are justified. This one may have been; who knows?  But the problem is that, in each of these cases,  there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was unjustified and no amount of evidence will persuade them otherwise. Meanwhile there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was justified and no amount of evidence will persuade them either. 

The need to immediately react regardless of facts has been a huge fuel to much of the unrest.

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37 minutes ago, timschochet said:

DA rules Andrew Brown shooting “justified”

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/18/us/andrew-brown-jr-press-conference/index.html
 

I have to say that I’m really bothered by the current situation. Some of these shootings really are justified. This one may have been; who knows?  But the problem is that, in each of these cases,  there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was unjustified and no amount of evidence will persuade them otherwise. Meanwhile there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was justified and no amount of evidence will persuade them either. 

Do you have video of these crowds?

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, timschochet said:

DA rules Andrew Brown shooting “justified”

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/18/us/andrew-brown-jr-press-conference/index.html
 

I have to say that I’m really bothered by the current situation. Some of these shootings really are justified. This one may have been; who knows?  But the problem is that, in each of these cases,  there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was unjustified and no amount of evidence will persuade them otherwise. Meanwhile there is an angry crowd who automatically assumes that it was justified and no amount of evidence will persuade them either. 

Are you really surprised by this?  We've been force fed a constant stream of "police are bad" and that there is a racist boogeyman around every corner - FOR EVERY SHOOTING - that people's first instinct now is to riot.  :shrug:

Of course, the race hustlers want this - it's what keeps their pockets lined (Sharpton, Jackson, etc...).

Edited by BladeRunner
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34 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

The need to immediately react regardless of facts has been a huge fuel to much of the unrest.

No doubt.  The body cameras really do help and I don't think they are going to go anywhere.  You see in cases what they can deal with.

We do live in this instant world and dearth of facts doesn't seem to deter condemnation/vindication in some cases.  Though, at least, with some of these recording technologies we see that we can get to reasonable conclusions - the case of the female officer mistaking the gun for taser shows her mistake and her state of mind (i.e. horrible mistake).  The case of Adam Toledo also shows how officers are forced to make incredibly quick, life threatening decisions and how these should lead to vindication.

 

On 5/16/2021 at 11:39 AM, jon_mx said:

Originally blm was in full support of body cameras, now many are backtracking and feel that body cameras are hurting and targeting blacks.  Some are advocating reforms to how they are used and others are wanting there use banned.  

There should be significant pushback here.  These are a force for truth.

 

On 5/16/2021 at 11:39 AM, jon_mx said:

BLM also is against mass surveilence technologies which criminalize and target black communities including body cameras.  

There are definitely privacy issues here.  Should we have cameras in high crime areas?  Should we have gunshot detection systems in high crime areas?

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On 5/16/2021 at 7:54 AM, PinkydaPimp said:

”"It's not a perfect technology. It's not the fantasy we all hoped for," Bueermann said. "Police still kill about 1,000 people a year, but cameras have absolutely improved policing."”

Not the best wordage here, as it has a definite negative connotation on police action.

We had a case yesterday in the city here where a guy shot two people in a park (argument over a dog, of all things).  Police tracked him and he shot two officers and was ultimately killed in the gunfight.  Personally I put this one on the green side of the ledger - lumping them all in together is a disservice.

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24 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Are you really surprised by this?  We've been force fed a constant stream of "police are bad" and that there is a racist boogeyman around every corner - FOR EVERY SHOOTING - that people's first instinct now is to riot.  :shrug:

Of course, the race hustlers want this - it's what keeps their pockets lined (Sharpton, Jackson, etc...).

Let’s not forget the actual Police behavior that plays a huge part in the distrust of the Police.

Here are a couple recent examples

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/2020/02/10/accused-drug-planting-deputy-slapped-two-dozen-new-charges/4670519002/

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-pinheiro-ruling-20181109-story.html

https://www.vice.com/en/article/8xvzwp/baltimore-cops-carried-toy-guns-to-plant-on-people-they-shot-trial-reveals-vgtrn

 

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41 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Sure, but that's the exception. Not the rule.

Sure, but when dealing with human lives exceptions are a big deal.  Also when policing 300+ million people small percentages of exceptions become large numbers 

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Sure, but when dealing with human lives exceptions are a big deal.  Also when policing 300+ million people small percentages of exceptions become large numbers 

uhm...no.

how many black men are killed by police a year?  And then take THAT number and count the number of actual unjustified killings by police. 

 

Edited by BladeRunner
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16 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

uhm...no.

how many black men are killed by police a year?  And then take THAT number and count the number of actual unjustified killings by police

 

Not going down that rabbit hole with you as the ground has be covered multiple times in the PSF.   We'll have to agree to disagree. 

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On 5/16/2021 at 9:38 AM, Alex P Keaton said:

Please provide a single example of anyone in here saying “bodycams suck because they are showing that police misconduct isn’t real.”

Why do you ask me to provide examples of stuff I did not claim?  I posted an excerpt of an article about how the BLM organization is back peddling on their support for body cams because they do not like the results.  I am not sure what that has to do with any posters in here.  

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4 hours ago, dkp993 said:

Sure, but when dealing with human lives exceptions are a big deal.  Also when policing 300+ million people small percentages of exceptions become large numbers 

But that is the problem with focusing on anecdotal cases.  The masses are being brainwashed to believe these rare events are far more common than they actually are and are creating a more dangerous society as more people start to distrust police and leads to even more people resisting arrest.  

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4 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Why do you ask me to provide examples of stuff I did not claim?  I posted an excerpt of an article about how the BLM organization is back peddling on their support for body cams because they do not like the results.  I am not sure what that has to do with any posters in here.  

Apologies if I read your comments from 5/16 at 7:40am in a way that you didn’t intend.  
 

What point were you trying to make when you posted that bodycams haven’t lived up to their intended purpose?  It seemed like you were suggesting people in here somehow agreed with that view - evidently I was wrong, which is on me.

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Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

Apologies if I read your comments from 5/16 at 7:40am in a way that you didn’t intend.  
 

What point were you trying to make when you posted that bodycams haven’t lived up to their intended purpose?  It seemed like you were suggesting people in here somehow agreed with that view - evidently I was wrong, which is on me.

My point was that BLM believed that body cams would reinforce their worldview that police are just gunning down blacks because they are racists.  But in the majority of cases they have done the opposite and have help exonerate the officer. So maybe cops are not really chasing down black children and shooting them for wearing a hoodie.  Wasn't a suggestion about anyone in here, but more about this narrative that is being peddled might  be exaggerated.  

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5 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

My point was that BLM believed that body cams would reinforce their worldview that police are just gunning down blacks because they are racists.  But in the majority of cases they have done the opposite and have help exonerate the officer. So maybe cops are not really chasing down black children and shooting them for wearing a hoodie.  Wasn't a suggestion about anyone in here, but more about this narrative that is being peddled might  be exaggerated.  

Cool.  Thanks for the reply and explanation.   Makes sense.

I really like facts, and thus if body cams are showing that most officers act appropriately, that's a really awesome outcome of body cams.   My guess is that most people feel that way, but like everything, I'm sure there are outliers! 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

But that is the problem with focusing on anecdotal cases.  The masses are being brainwashed to believe these rare events are far more common than they actually are and are creating a more dangerous society as more people start to distrust police and leads to even more people resisting arrest.  

Sure. Or it’s not as uncommon or rare as you think it is and there are whole portions of society that have already experienced the issues enough to currently be fearful and thus are resisting arrests.  

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5 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Sure. Or it’s not as uncommon or rare as you think it is and the are whole portions of society that  have already experienced the issues enough to currently be fearful and thus are resisting arrests.  

When it comes to unjustified killings it is most certainly uncommon.  If you are talking about harassment, it is probably very common.  

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2 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

When it comes to unjustified killings it is most certainly uncommon.  If you are talking about harassment, it is probably very common.  

It all ties together is the point.  

And as I said and my other post while I agree it’s “uncommon” or a very small percentage of overall police interactions is absolutely accurate, on a scale as large as our country is now the overall number become large.  

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1 minute ago, dkp993 said:

It all ties together is the point.  

And as I said and my other post while I agree it’s “uncommon” or a very small percentage of overall police interactions is absolutely accurate, on a scale as large as our country is now the overall number become large.  

I think on a yearly basis you could count it on your fingers.  Given the size of this country and the amount of violent crimes and murders which take place, it is not a problem which should consume all our attention.  It would be far more beneficial to worry about helping reduce the 10,000 murders each year than only worrying about a few cases.  

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

I think on a yearly basis you could count it on your fingers.  Given the size of this country and the amount of violent crimes and murders which take place, it is not a problem which should consume all our attention.  It would be far more beneficial to worry about helping reduce the 10,000 murders each year than only worrying about a few cases.  

I understand your point but I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. I also think it’s far more then just what you can count on your fingers but that’s hard to truly substantiate one way or the other. 

The entanglement of the harassment also complicates the matter. When you’re not part of the subset group getting harassed it’s easy to write that off is no big deal, when you’re in that subset I would imagine it’s certainly not so.  

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If I were a cop, I would always have it on.  In a world where everyone whips out their smartphone and shoots a video when police are around, the police cam is the one that trumps all.  

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39 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

My point was that BLM believed that body cams would reinforce their worldview that police are just gunning down blacks because they are racists.  But in the majority of cases they have done the opposite and have help exonerate the officer. So maybe cops are not really chasing down black children and shooting them for wearing a hoodie.  Wasn't a suggestion about anyone in here, but more about this narrative that is being peddled might  be exaggerated.  

First, i think cams(cell phone footage as well) have shown many people that blacks are being treated poorly by the police when many simply didnt believe it was true(some still dont).  Thats why you see this movement over the past few years. 

We also know that holding officers accountable has always been a problem.  Cam footage or not.  That will get sorted out eventually and is being worked on in many jurisdictions.  Until then, i'm just happy we have visibility. 

We also need to ensure the the cams are on always, not being turned off and are edited by a third party so it cant be skewed, altered or messed with.  Until then, yes officers will get exonerated of course.  That's not shocking however.  They look out for each other. 

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1 hour ago, dkp993 said:

I understand your point but I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. I also think it’s far more then just what you can count on your fingers but that’s hard to truly substantiate one way or the other. 

The entanglement of the harassment also complicates the matter. When you’re not part of the subset group getting harassed it’s easy to write that off is no big deal, when you’re in that subset I would imagine it’s certainly not so.  

As a member of the subset, I can tell you that it is a big deal. I have had guns pointed in my face 6 times in my life. 5 were by the police. Only 1 of the 5 times were the police justified in doing so (even that one time wasn’t really justified, wrong place wrong time kind of thing)

None of the 5 times ended with me being shot, arrested or even given a ticket. Just harassed, scared and pissed off.

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10 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

As a member of the subset, I can tell you that it is a big deal. I have had guns pointed in my face 6 times in my life. 5 were by the police. Only 1 of the 5 times were the police justified in doing so (even that one time wasn’t really justified, wrong place wrong time kind of thing)

None of the 5 times ended with me being shot, arrested or even given a ticket. Just harassed, scared and pissed off.

Damn.  You must look like trouble. ;)  

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15 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

As a member of the subset, I can tell you that it is a big deal. I have had guns pointed in my face 6 times in my life. 5 were by the police. Only 1 of the 5 times were the police justified in doing so (even that one time wasn’t really justified, wrong place wrong time kind of thing)

None of the 5 times ended with me being shot, arrested or even given a ticket. Just harassed, scared and pissed off.

Why do I get the impression 25 yr old dkp993 would want to party with you.  

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8 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

Damn.  You must look like trouble. ;)  

 

9 hours ago, Yenrub said:

As a member of the subset, I can tell you that it is a big deal. I have had guns pointed in my face 6 times in my life. 5 were by the police. Only 1 of the 5 times were the police justified in doing so (even that one time wasn’t really justified, wrong place wrong time kind of thing)

None of the 5 times ended with me being shot, arrested or even given a ticket. Just harassed, scared and pissed off.

Why am i picturing a young Mike Milligan #fargo

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5 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

 

Why am i picturing a young Mike Milligan #fargo

🤣 No man I wasn't a gangster, more like a combination of Trey Styles (boyz n the hood) & Kid (house party)

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

🤣 No man I wasn't a gangster, more like a combination of Trey Styles (boyz n the hood) & Kid (house party)

Please please tell me you rocked the high top fade.  

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1 hour ago, dkp993 said:

Please please tell me you rocked the high top fade.  

🤣Most definitely!

Not as tall as Kid’s but it was up there. Also rocked the Bobby Brown gumby for a month or so.

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2 hours ago, Yenrub said:

🤣Most definitely!

Not as tall as Kid’s but it was up there. Also rocked the Bobby Brown gumby for a month or so.

I never got the Gumby.  Low top fade for me but also the cuts in the eye brow like Kris Kross :shrug:  

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Once or twice but they were not comfortable at all.  

Overalls with one strap down?

That hit most of us in HS.  The Bell Biv Devoe look

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Overalls with one strap down?

That hit most of us in HS.  The Bell Biv Devoe look

That and the Boys II Men dress shirt, tie with matching baseball hat and ripped jeans

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29 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

That and the Boys II Men dress shirt, tie with matching baseball hat and ripped jeans

And polka dot shirts when you really want to be classy.  

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8 hours ago, -jb- said:

This looks so bad.  I'll wait to see if there's something we're missing, but it appears there was also an attempted cover-up.

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10 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

This looks so bad.  I'll wait to see if there's something we're missing, but it appears there was also an attempted cover-up.

Stuff like that is why I pull over right away when I am stopped.  Leading police a high speed chase never seems to work out well.

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1 hour ago, Summer Wheat said:

Stuff like that is why I pull over right away when I am stopped.  Leading police a high speed chase never seems to work out well.

Same with trying to pass a counterfit $20 bill at a shop.  Police get really upset at that one too.

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8 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

Same with trying to pass a counterfit $20 bill at a shop.  Police get really upset at that one too.

Dont know about that but high speed chases are bad news.

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