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Another killing at the hands of the Police


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Who possibly could have seen this coming....KLB has been a disaster for Atlanta.

@KarmaPolice related to your question to me in another thread and I reference "identity politics".  Not sure how familiar you are with Atlanta and some of the stories including Lance Bottoms instructing police to not enter demonstration zones where subsequently people were killed including a young girl.  But when I say identity politics is harming and killing the people the "virtue signalers" claim to fight for....here's an example of what it has wrought on Atlanta.  It wins elections though...the people get what they deserve I guess.

Mass retirement, resignation and difficulty recruiting

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Thanks @KeishaBottoms @atlcouncil your insolence over the last year has got us here. Some of you and your mindless #DefundThePolice rhetoric has gotten us here, and you mean to tell me a few of you believe you deserve the mayorship?

Anti violence investment

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Funny way of saying “Increasing funding for the police.” Especially when activists/political leaders who are currently running for political offices, on all levels in the city have gone on record to say “Defund the Police.”

 

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17 minutes ago, djmich said:

Who possibly could have seen this coming....KLB has been a disaster for Atlanta.

@KarmaPolice related to your question to me in another thread and I reference "identity politics".  Not sure how familiar you are with Atlanta and some of the stories including Lance Bottoms instructing police to not enter demonstration zones where subsequently people were killed including a young girl.  But when I say identity politics is harming and killing the people the "virtue signalers" claim to fight for....here's an example of what it has wrought on Atlanta.  It wins elections though...the people get what they deserve I guess.

Mass retirement, resignation and difficulty recruiting

Anti violence investment

 

From the linked article the officer said:

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His view of the department changed following the arrest of six Atlanta police officers after a video surfaced of them pulling two college students out of their car during a protest.

The incident went viral and only added to the distance and vitriol growing between law enforcement and the people they are paid to police. Cooper said the officers were following directives from higher-ups but were thrown under the bus by leadership who should have had their backs.

"The direction this department has taken is nothing more than sad," he wrote. "I was a long-time believer in our leadership, but I am now disappointed to find out just truly how poor it is."

So are these officers mad they are being held accountable now?  Mad that leadership isnt?  Both?  To be fair, i think leadership should be held accountable as well.  But i feel like alot of this butthurtness is that officers cant police they way the prefer to police and cant get away with whatever they wish. 

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24 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

From the linked article the officer said:

So are these officers mad they are being held accountable now?  Mad that leadership isnt?  Both?  To be fair, i think leadership should be held accountable as well.  But i feel like alot of this butthurtness is that officers cant police they way the prefer to police and cant get away with whatever they wish. 

In that specific example they were saying that they were mad that they were following instructions and being hung out to dry.  I don't know anything about the particulars of those officers or the incident, I'm more interested in the overall outcomes/statistics.  If your point is that bad people will quit or not join to begin with...I agree that will be one outcome of many and that is one good outcome of many good and bad ones.

My overall point about identity politics is that we need leaders leading, not politicians politicking.  A leader would understand that the police force is the tool they have to protect their citizens and when you #### it up, however noble you tell yourself you are being and pats on the back you get from your political friends...your killing people and ruining lives.  A leader hugs people they don't want to hug because they know it will save lives.  A leader is willing to get some eye rolls from friends because they know they are doing what needs to be done.

Its really not that hard...but it is hard because because politics don't allow for it. 

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24 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

the marketing of that concept was less than stellar.  :shrug: 

That + implementation.  

I think it's similar to the border, I was ok with the ideas, but there was no plan.  IF the underlying goal is to take pressure off cops with social workers, demilitarize, train better/differently, etc.  Cool, but that takes time and planning.  

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48 minutes ago, djmich said:

In that specific example they were saying that they were mad that they were following instructions and being hung out to dry.  I don't know anything about the particulars of those officers or the incident, I'm more interested in the overall outcomes/statistics.  If your point is that bad people will quit or not join to begin with...I agree that will be one outcome of many and that is one good outcome of many good and bad ones.

My overall point about identity politics is that we need leaders leading, not politicians politicking.  A leader would understand that the police force is the tool they have to protect their citizens and when you #### it up, however noble you tell yourself you are being and pats on the back you get from your political friends...your killing people and ruining lives.  A leader hugs people they don't want to hug because they know it will save lives.  A leader is willing to get some eye rolls from friends because they know they are doing what needs to be done.

Its really not that hard...but it is hard because because politics don't allow for it. 

Truth.

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Thought THIS article had interesting info in it.  Sorry if it was shared in here, it is a couple months old, I just stumbled on it now while waking up.  

 

The report looked at police training requirements in more than 100 countries and found that the US had among the lowest, in terms of average hours required.

Also, many other countries require officers to have a university degree - or equivalent - before joining the police, but in the US most forces just require the equivalent of a high-school diploma.

 

 

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5 Miami Beach police officers face battery charges after rough arrests Officers caught on camera beating, kicking 2 men at hotel

What were the officers thinking, with body cams, hotel cams, and bystander cell phones? Charges of misdeamor assault are likely to be upgraded. Only 2 of 21 officers tried to calm down the officers assaulting the victim who was face down and handcuffed. My guess is the overreaction was related to one officers suffering a leg injury from the scooter ridden by the victim.  

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Miami Beach officers acted like thugs. Looks like they learned nothing from George Floyd | Editorial

The victim wasn't killed, but kicking him in the head and slamming his head onto a concrete floor could've killed him. It's disturbing that none of the 16 other officers intervened, although apparently 2 made some effort. Silence is built into the culture of many organizations. Some irony that the beating took place in the lobby of what was once a black-owned hotel (Don Peebles).

>>A gang of hoodlums surrounded a victim. Any rattled witness would have called the police. But the hoodlums were the police, if the video released Monday is any indication. It shows a tangle of Miami Beach officers beating a handcuffed suspect in a hotel lobby, kicking him and slamming his head onto the hard terrazzo floor, then tackling and punching a hotel guest who dared to videotape this violence, which was his right to do. Excessive use of force is an understatement.

The officers will get their day in court, but the eyes don’t lie, which likely why Beach Police Chief Richard Clements and Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle moved with stunning speed to suspend, then charge five officers in this brutal incident — before releasing the video to the public. It’s that bad.

The police beatings occurred a week earlier, at 1:25 a.m. on July 26 in the lobby of the Royal Palm Hotel. But the video footage — a compilation of hotel-security and police body-cam videos — had been kept out of the public eye until Monday.

The four-minute clip released by Fernandez Rundle shows a stomach-turning display of police brutality, made more stunning in that it was captured after nationwide demands for police accountability.

“Excessive force can never, ever be an acceptable foundation for the policing of any community,” she said. Fernandez Rundle was right to move quickly in this egregious case. In the past, she hasn’t been so nimble in charging renegade officers. She deserves credit for acting almost immediately now. The out-of-control arrest of Dalonta Crudup, 24, who allegedly struck an officer with his scooter, then fled, demands accountability.

Here, every officer who seemed to show up just to land a blow on Crudup, or beat up the bystander videotaping, Khalid Vaughn, 28, of New York, has been criminally charged.

A member of the department’s leadership staff took the video to the chief, another move we applaud, although it’s unclear if fellow officers reported excessive force by colleagues, much less intervened in the beatings, as required by state law. The department blew the whistle on itself.<<

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I don't think this type of abuse of authority, and willingness of other officers to allow it to continue, stops until there is a financial incentive to make it stop.  I have suggested before in this forum that we need to stop the practice of paying lawsuits and settlements for police brutality (and wrongful death) from general taxpayer funds, and start having them paid from police pension funds.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/8/2015 at 12:30 PM, RedmondLonghorn said:

I don't consider myself racist, but I do consider the above statement to be one of the biggest pieces of PC garbage I have ever read here.


I miss THIS RedmondLonghorn. Not the fist to power, but the fist to bull####

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1 hour ago, FairWarning said:

A veeeeery conservative town.  I know that area very well.  

This fits right in some of the other threads as yet another barrier to move to certain neighborhoods.  I had a similar experience to this.  Was helping a friend move stuff into his house they thought i was robbing the place and called the cops.  🤦🏽‍♂️

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1 hour ago, PinkydaPimp said:

This fits right in some of the other threads as yet another barrier to move to certain neighborhoods.  I had a similar experience to this.  Was helping a friend move stuff into his house they thought i was robbing the place and called the cops.  🤦🏽‍♂️

OTOH my brother did sell his house in that city to a professional black family for very good money.  In the above story, it does suck for the realtor, that’s just awful police work. 

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20 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

So i'm confused...are we for defunding the police, or are we not? 

The Senate, Including Sanders, Votes to Penalize Local Governments That Defund the Police

This about face was completely expected.  There will be lots of denials from blue politician that they actually meant to defund police when they talked about defunding the police.

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The loophole comes when you realize that all the amendments the Senate went through are entirely nonbinding. Committees aren’t required to act on any of them. That goes double when you realize “a deficit-neutral reserve fund” is basically a work of fiction.

Dylan Matthews — now at Vox, then writing for The Washington Post — explained it like this in 2013:

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As this CRS report explains, Section 310(d) of the Budget Act "bars the consideration of any amendment to a reconciliation bill that would increase the deficit." Hence the "deficit-neutral" part.

And what about "reserve fund"? According to CRS, "'Reserve fund' refers to any provision establishing procedures to revise spending or revenue levels, or both, if certain legislation is enacted or some other condition is met." So that specifies that the policies for which reserve funds are established won't take effect unless other legislation gets passed as well.

 

Translation: None of this matters. For Hawley's or Tuberville's amendment to come into effect, Congress would have to actually pass new laws in this upcoming fiscal year that involve hiring more police or punishing cities that defund their police forces. And that’s not happening anytime soon.

So why go through the hassle? And why would Democrats vote for these Republican amendments that do nothing but make their liberal and progressive supporters angry? Well, Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J., made that pretty clear in a speech praising Tuberville’s amendment.

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"This is a gift," Cory Booker says in an animated speech praising Tommy Tuberville's non-binding amendment to punish localities that defund the police.

"I am sure I will see no political ads attacking anybody here over defund the police."

It passed 99-0, all Dems voted for it. pic.twitter.com/GUqAfcSlxH

— Andrew Solender (@AndrewSolender) August 11, 2021

 

 

 

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/why-democrats-voted-josh-hawley-s-imaginary-police-hiring-drive-n1276719

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5 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

interesting link. Thanks for sharing. 

It highlights how confusing the inner workings of gov't at those levels are and how it is super easy to find a nugget of a larger picture and blow it up for any agenda you want. 

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https://www.npr.org/2021/08/25/1030977804/trooper-hits-black-motorist-18-times-flashlight-pain-compliance?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social

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Graphic body camera video kept secret for more than two years shows a Louisiana State Police trooper pummeling a Black motorist 18 times with a flashlight — an attack the trooper defended as "pain compliance."

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 8/18/2021 at 9:11 AM, glvsav37 said:

So i'm confused...are we for defunding the police, or are we not? 

The Senate, Including Sanders, Votes to Penalize Local Governments That Defund the Police

Most were not for "defunding" the police. More so for reform that takes things off the police plate (and yes, that some of the budgets are bloated often by unnecessary things...seems to be a thing all over government really)

In addition...a non-binding resolution is pretty toothless.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/14/2021 at 11:39 AM, Sinn Fein said:

BREAKING: former Brooklyn Center, MN, police office Kim Potter was arrested & taken into custody at 12:30pET today by agents of the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA). Potter will be booked into jail & charged with 2nd Degree Manslaughter.

 

 

So, Kim Potter's trial has been going on for the past week or so.  This is looking very much like a Kyle Rittenhouse situation.  The defense hasn't even started yet.  The prosecution's case is making the defense case for them.   A prosecution witness, another cop, testified today that he felt she would have been justified using her taser OR her gun.  Much other testimony not going their way.  The prosecution was even trying to impeach some of their own witnesses during cross examination with their objections and what not.  I haven't watched all of it, but from what I've watched and what I've read from legal analysts, this looks like another case that was politically motivated without much foundation in the actual law.

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9 minutes ago, John123 said:

 

So, Kim Potter's trial has been going on for the past week or so.  This is looking very much like a Kyle Rittenhouse situation.  The defense hasn't even started yet.  The prosecution's case is making the defense case for them.   A prosecution witness, another cop, testified today that he felt she would have been justified using her taser OR her gun.  Much other testimony not going their way.  The prosecution was even trying to impeach some of their own witnesses during cross examination with their objections and what not.  I haven't watched all of it, but from what I've watched and what I've read from legal analysts, this looks like another case that was politically motivated without much foundation in the actual law.

 

Interesting how both of their initial reactions after they fired was 'oh I F'd up and am going to jail for the rest of my life'.  Not, "Hey, I did what I had to do.  At least I'm still here". 

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8 minutes ago, cockroach said:

 

Interesting how both of their initial reactions after they fired was 'oh I F'd up and am going to jail for the rest of my life'.  Not, "Hey, I did what I had to do.  At least I'm still here". 

 

Who is both?  KR consistently maintained that he acted in self defense. 

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8 minutes ago, John123 said:

 

Who is both?  KR consistently maintained that he acted in self defense. 

Where do people come up with these alternate realities?

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Less than two hours after a shooting left two people dead and a third wounded during unrest in Kenosha, 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse walked into the Antioch, Illinois, police station "visibly upset" and told an officer he had "ended a man's life," according to records released late Friday.  The teen told Antioch police he had tried to turn himself into an officer in Kenosha but was told to go home.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, John123 said:

 

So, Kim Potter's trial has been going on for the past week or so.  This is looking very much like a Kyle Rittenhouse situation.  The defense hasn't even started yet.  The prosecution's case is making the defense case for them.   A prosecution witness, another cop, testified today that he felt she would have been justified using her taser OR her gun.  Much other testimony not going their way.  The prosecution was even trying to impeach some of their own witnesses during cross examination with their objections and what not.  I haven't watched all of it, but from what I've watched and what I've read from legal analysts, this looks like another case that was politically motivated without much foundation in the actual law.

 

Potter case is going to be tough.  When you watch the video this whole situation could have been so easily avoided and the young man still alive had he just followed instructions.

Why he fought, kicked and tried to drive away with police still hanging on made no sense at all because he would have been picked up later as they had all his info.

 

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1 minute ago, John123 said:

 

No.  The "victim" screwed up.  He put her in the situation that necessitated the use of force. 

I don’t really want to have this argument with you but I would point out that Ms. Potter disagrees with you. She’s admitted that she should not have done what she did. 
 

Even so, it was not intentional, and that is what’s important here. 

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38 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t really want to have this argument with you but I would point out that Ms. Potter disagrees with you. She’s admitted that she should not have done what she did. 
 

Even so, it was not intentional, and that is what’s important here. 

 

Link? 

Regarding your last comment, no, what's important is that a bad guy is off the street.  There has been multiple people who have testified that the use of deadly force was justified.  She could have skipped even trying to use the taser and just intended from the get go to shoot him with her firearm and would have been justified in doing so.  As in so many of these cases, the "vicitm" would be alive today but for their own unsafe and unlawful actions.

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This is what needs to be proven for second degree manslaughter:

 

Quote

[1] Second, the defendant caused1 the death of ___, by culpable negligence, whereby the defendant created an unreasonable risk and consciously took a chance of causing death or great bodily harm. “To cause” means to be a substantial causal factor in causing the [death]. The defendant is criminally liable for all the consequences of (his) (her) actions that occur in the ordinary and natural course of events, including those consequences brought about by one or more intervening causes, if such intervening causes were the natural result of the defendant’s acts. The fact that other causes contribute to the [death] does not relieve the defendant of criminal liability. However, the defendant is not criminally liable if a “superseding cause” caused the [death]. A “superseding cause” is a cause that comes after the defendant’s acts, alters the natural sequence of events, and produces a result that would not otherwise have occurred. “Culpable negligence” is intentional conduct that the defendant may not have intended to be harmful, but that an ordinary and reasonably prudent person would recognize as involving a strong probability of injury to others. “Great bodily harm” means bodily injury that creates a high probability of death, or causes serious permanent disfigurement, or causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ or other serious bodily harm.

 

 

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7 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t really want to have this argument with you but I would point out that Ms. Potter disagrees with you. She’s admitted that she should not have done what she did. 
 

Even so, it was not intentional, and that is what’s important here. 

 

I don't think she has said she shouldn't have used force. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

 

She said it was a mistake; that she drew the wrong gun.  But the evidence in the case supports the stance that she would have been just as justified using deadly force as trying to avoid that by using the taser.   There is a difference between an accidental mistake and her saying she shouldn't have done what she did.  The only way I would accept that she shouldn't have done what she did would be if the evidence showed that if she didn't have her taser she shouldn't have shot him with her gun.  And the evidence does not support that hypothetical.

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20 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t really want to have this argument with you but I would point out that Ms. Potter disagrees with you. She’s admitted that she should not have done what she did. 
 

Even so, it was not intentional, and that is what’s important here. 

 

agreed 

 

another case - black man freed and he should have been

 

https://www.wpbf.com/article/andrew-coffee-not-guilty-on-all-counts/38304640

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15 hours ago, John123 said:

 

She said it was a mistake; that she drew the wrong gun.  But the evidence in the case supports the stance that she would have been just as justified using deadly force as trying to avoid that by using the taser.   There is a difference between an accidental mistake and her saying she shouldn't have done what she did.  The only way I would accept that she shouldn't have done what she did would be if the evidence showed that if she didn't have her taser she shouldn't have shot him with her gun.  And the evidence does not support that hypothetical.

 

I just wish the perp would not have fought them and tried to drive away with door open.  Then none of this would have happened.    So sad.  I have been pulled over too many times, can`t imagine fighting an officer and trying to drive away half in and half out of the car.  crazy..

I told my younger sons regradless of what you think is right or wrong just comply to police orders and sort it out later. It will make it much easier on yourself.

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23 minutes ago, John123 said:

Guilty on both counts.

As I wrote before, based on her testimony, I can’t go along with this verdict. I don’t believe, as you do, that she did nothing wrong, but I do think she had no criminal intent. 
 

People who make mistakes, but have no bad intent, do not belong in our prisons. That’s wrong, IMO. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

As I wrote before, based on her testimony, I can’t go along with this verdict. I don’t believe, as you do, that she did nothing wrong, but I do think she had no criminal intent. 
 

People who make mistakes, but have no bad intent, do not belong in our prisons. That’s wrong, IMO. 

 

When those mistakes result in a death, they do deserve punishment i would say they do.  Even if its a minimal sentence.  Do we know what the min and max are for this? 

Ill be honest i thought she would get Second degree.  Didnt think they would go 1st degree. 

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