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Another killing at the hands of the Police (3 Viewers)

The DUI analogy isn’t comparable imo.  When you drink and then drive, you do so knowing the dangers.  That is intent.  In this case there was no intent.  She made a tragic mistake.


Oh so she intentionally shot him?  What a crock.


Manslaughter doesn’t need to prove intent.  


I think all of these are correct.  Not really familiar enough with the trial to opine but overall just a tragic mistake (series of mistakes).

 
:(

Kristine Lazar @CBSLAKristine 15h

LAPD confirms 14 year old girl killed inside Burlington store in North Hollywood. She was struck by police gunfire when they fatally shot assault suspect inside the store. Victim of assault survived. Police confirm suspect had bike lock/chain, did not have a gun. @CBSLA

https://twitter.com/CBSLAKristine/status/1474174860196605955
Open fire in a crowded store, what could possibly go wrong?

 
The end result will be police officers figuring out that the best career security (i.e. feeding their family) is to just let crime happen all around them and do nothing.

When a needed and wanted service is removed or effectively prohibited in application, then a new system always emerges.

You'll have more armed citizens getting into firefights with criminals. You'll also see more vigilantism in general. You'll see a rise in criminal gangs essentially running extortion rackets and then getting into massive firefights with business owners.

Do you know why the attacks on Asian Americans stopped? You won't read this in the MSM  but Asian gangs in all areas with high concentrations of Asian businesses started to put out bounties.

If you attack Asians and you are found out, then you'll have your home invaded and your family executed in front of you. People raised and steeped in culture outside of the "Western Bubble" don't call lawyers. They don't argue legal semantics. They will just tie up your children in duct tape because you decided you needed to beat up an 80 year old woman on the streets, and then they'll start cutting throats.

The "social change" you'll end up with will be masses of criminals and regular civilians being executed on the streets. The car jackings of two high level elected officials was not random either. You'll begin to see widespread patterns of attacks on "brand name" political figures to sell a specific media narrative.

This goes beyond Kim Potter. The message is clear - You are on your own. No one is going to come and help you. Buy a gun if you don't have one already. It's a lot harder to sue you if you shoot those criminals 15 times in the back of the head.

The end result you are praising is neither a "small win" nor a "big win"

Time has already told. Across recorded human history, when the sitting government cannot enforce law and order, it will be done informally with extreme prejudice. You want social justice but all you'll get is blood. See how hard it is to wash off your hands? If you don't see it today, you will when you can't avoid it any longer.
Ummm.   Merry Christmas?

 
:(

Kristine Lazar @CBSLAKristine 15h

LAPD confirms 14 year old girl killed inside Burlington store in North Hollywood. She was struck by police gunfire when they fatally shot assault suspect inside the store. Victim of assault survived. Police confirm suspect had bike lock/chain, did not have a gun. @CBSLA

https://twitter.com/CBSLAKristine/status/1474174860196605955
This is just a mistake right?  Nothing to see here right?   :popcorn:    This sounds bad I’ll wait for more facts though.

 
Ummm.   Merry Christmas?


Direct Headline: How the Rodney King beating ‘banished’ the baton from the LAPD

But the infamous video marked the beginning of the end for the baton’s reign. By 2015, LAPD officers used their batons just 54 times. “Back then, it was pulling out a baton and whacking people,” LAPD Deputy Chief Bill Murphy said. “After that video played that night, no one hardly ever used the baton. It was banished. It became a symbol.

By Richard Winton  March 2, 2016 6:47 PM PT

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-rodney-king-baton-20160303-story.html

*****

After Rodney King, police departments across the country, considering the potential optics and liability made some drastic changes. First, was more training in ground fighting techniques. Second, was using traditional batons only in crowd control situations and only holstered on patrol vehicles along with crowd control helmets and gear, this is known as "Hats And Bats" informally. Third, was widespread introduction and use of Tasers and Bean Bag deployment systems. Many departments refitted out their old shotguns upon replacement cycling to become bean bag shotguns.

Law enforcement tactics and approaches changes with the trends around them. It was once very uncommon to see Big City / urban police officers having AR-15 style platforms in their patrol cars. At one point, Heckler and Koch made a hard push to have MP5s in every police car in America. But part of that problem was the struggle with maintenance and armory work needed that could not be easily done in house. But now it's very common to see AR-15 platforms used in a widespread manner.

If police officers recognize their careers are over and they'll be civilly sued out of oblivion for use of force, especially dealing with minorities, even if they are found to be exonerated later criminally, they'll just stop use of force period. They'll just stop pulling over black people and dealing with black criminals. A disgraced ( even if unfairly) and fired police officer, what are their career options afterwards?

You have a massive push to Defund The Police, you have a widespread agenda to shift "bail reform" as some type of insane social equality hot fix for the demographics in the prison population, you have elected officials and all manners of MSM and the entertainment industry saying the police are here to systematically execute minorities and you have year where rioting and looting went nearly unchecked. Is it a wonder why so many cops are retiring or quitting or looking for jobs in low impact areas?

You can keep your job and say you just didn't have a clean shot or you can try to do your job and risk everything you own and your entire career with the odds stacked against you.

If cops are newly socialized into believing being proactive is actually dangerous for them, then all the cops you have left who didn't retire or didn't quit to find other careers are those who will likely be prone to be inert.

And if that happens in a widespread manner, that means civilians are on their own and it's not like all of them will just roll over and be abused and treated like open prey. If the formal law and order establishment won't protect you, some people will find a way to protect themselves. An alternative structure always emerges to fill that need. Recorded human history shows that's a matter of WHEN and not IF.

For many small business owners, that Mom And Pop shop is all they have left to feed their kids. Many have little to no insurance and many have no other career options. Many are minorities. Many came from cultures where the police were to be feared as much as the criminals were. You can fight or your children can starve. As I've said before, many here, not all, but far too many, are overeducated middle aged white collar white liberal males with above average earning power. Do many of you really understand the threat matrix around lots of Americans out there far less fortunate than you? Do some of you realize how tone deaf and smug and elitist and condescending you sound from those maybe a paycheck and a half away from being homeless?

Civilians are buying firearms at a record pace the last two years and that's not going to stop.

More hesitation, career threat and massive personnel losses in law enforcement + More career criminals being let back onto the street + More DAs and elected officials basically decriminalizing attacks of all manner against civil society + A worldwide pandemic + More armed but functionally untrained civilians with lots of firearms = How do some of you think this is going to actually end up?

 
I actually thought the attacks on asian Americans were continuing? Just that the MSM decided that they no longer wanted to constantly point out that black on asian crime was so much more common than people realized. 

The new york times recently tried to paint the picture that the reason blacks and asians werent getting along was because they had disagreements on policing. 

Instead of mentioning the fact that black people commit so many crimes against asians. They aren't at odds because of policy disagreements. 

They are at odds because one group commits far more crime against the other group and it isn't even close. 

 
I actually thought the attacks on asian Americans were continuing? Just that the MSM decided that they no longer wanted to constantly point out that black on asian crime was so much more common than people realized. 

The new york times recently tried to paint the picture that the reason blacks and asians werent getting along was because they had disagreements on policing. 

Instead of mentioning the fact that black people commit so many crimes against asians. They aren't at odds because of policy disagreements. 

They are at odds because one group commits far more crime against the other group and it isn't even close. 


It is funny how leftist were making a huge deal out of violence against Asians when they thought it was most done by white racists.  But as soon as it became obvious most these 'hate crimes' were being committed by blacks, the stories disappeared.  Asians are no longer important because their stories do not fit the narrative. 

 
It is funny how leftist were making a huge deal out of violence against Asians when they thought it was most done by white racists.  But as soon as it became obvious most these 'hate crimes' were being committed by blacks, the stories disappeared.  Asians are no longer important because their stories do not fit the narrative. 


There is no documentation that most hate crimes against Asians are committed by blacks in this country. I don't believe that the national hate crimes statistics support that. There are individual cities like Oakland that do show that, but they also have a majority black population IIRC, so it stands to reason that they would probably commit the highest percentage of hate crimes against any ethnic group. 

 
There is no documentation that most hate crimes against Asians are committed by blacks in this country. I don't believe that the national hate crimes statistics support that. There are individual cities like Oakland that do show that, but they also have a majority black population IIRC, so it stands to reason that they would probably commit the highest percentage of hate crimes against any ethnic group. 


Hate crimes against Asians in New York rose 361 percent so far this year.  But they don't release any stats on the perpetrators.  They did let out that these crimes are mostly committed in low-income areas.  That guarantees that it is mostly blacks committing those crimes.  But of course they are not going to tell you that.   New York city have the numbers, but they are not ever going to release it. 

 
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Hate crimes against Asians in New York rose 361 percent so far this year.  But they don't release any stats on the perpetrators.  They did let out that these crimes are mostly committed in low-income areas.  That guarantees that it is mostly blacks committing those crimes.  But of course they are not going to tell you that.   New York city have the numbers, but they are not ever going to release it. 


So that doesn't disprove what I said in my post.  :coffee:

In a predominantly black city, blacks will probably commit the highest number of hate crimes, but there are no national figures on hate crime victims showing most hate crimes against Asians are committed by blacks. Cherry picking a few cities to prove your point means nothing. 

 
There is no documentation that most hate crimes against Asians are committed by blacks in this country. I don't believe that the national hate crimes statistics support that. There are individual cities like Oakland that do show that, but they also have a majority black population IIRC, so it stands to reason that they would probably commit the highest percentage of hate crimes against any ethnic group. 
Several factors may explain the relatively high number of non-white arrests in New York City, Levin said. One is the city’s racially diverse urban population. Proportionally, the city has 57% more Latinos, 81% more African-Americans, 139% more Asians and about 50% fewer whites than the nation as a whole, with whites often living in less racially mixed neighborhoods, according to Levin. What’s more, African Americans are more frequently arrested than whites, and many whites involved in anti-Asian hate crimes may be at large, he noted.

In response to the surge in anti-Asian hate incidents, the New York Police Department created a task force last year. Asked about the anti-Asian hate crime perpetrators’ backgrounds, Deputy Inspector Stewart Loo, the task force head, said he could not confirm the statistics, “but they are often misleading.”

“I can only give the facts that I know, which is this task force was created by Asian and Black ranking officers within the NYPD,” Loo said in an email. “Leaders of the Black community were the first and most vocal in publicly condemning the surge in hate crimes against Asians.”

 

Divided community

The surge in anti-Asian hate crimes has divided the Asian community over the appropriate law enforcement response.

Progressives oppose tougher police action over concern it could lead to a disproportionately high number of African American and Latino arrests without putting a stop to the hate. Lee cited data showing that an increase in arrests in Asian neighborhoods in four major U.S. cities last year did not deter anti-Asian hate incidents.

Others, however, say the surge in hate crimes warrants stepped-up prosecutions.

"I certainly understand the desire not to unfairly criminalize African American and Latinos, but I think we also need to have accountability for these attacks," Kwok said.

 
I thought Manslaughter 1 had the intent component. 
Not necessarily. See below for MN statute:

Found another article that says the first degree charge was under section 2 of the statute:

Whoever does any of the following is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree

2) violates section 609.224 and causes the death of another or causes the death of another in committing or attempting to commit a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor offense with such force and violence that death of or great bodily harm to any person was reasonably foreseeable, and murder in the first or second degree was not committed thereby

ETA: 609.224 is below. I can see how the jury got there now, but I still disagree

609.224 ASSAULT IN THE FIFTH DEGREE.

Subdivision 1.Misdemeanor. Whoever does any of the following commits an assault and is guilty of a misdemeanor:

(1) commits an act with intent to cause fear in another of immediate bodily harm or death; or

(2) intentionally inflicts or attempts to inflict bodily harm upon another.

 
So that doesn't disprove what I said in my post.  :coffee:

In a predominantly black city, blacks will probably commit the highest number of hate crimes, but there are no national figures on hate crime victims showing most hate crimes against Asians are committed by blacks. Cherry picking a few cities to prove your point means nothing. 
Since you love statistics, of the black Americans killed this year in America, what percentage were killed unlawfully by LEO and what percentage were killed by a fellow black citizen?   I'll hang up and listen. 

 
So that doesn't disprove what I said in my post.  :coffee:

In a predominantly black city, blacks will probably commit the highest number of hate crimes, but there are no national figures on hate crime victims showing most hate crimes against Asians are committed by blacks. Cherry picking a few cities to prove your point means nothing. 
In 2018, there were 182,230 reports of Asian victims. Of these, the offender was white 24% of the 
time and Black 28% of the time. For comparison, the US population is 62% White, 12% Black, 17% 
Hispanic, and 6% Asian.


Now of course this doesn't specifically mention "hate crimes" but we all know what we have seen in countless news reports and of course we have solid data about total crimes.

But since the stat you are asking for isn't available you can still just sit there and be an ostrich. 

But even though you will act that way. You know the truth. I know the truth. Everybody knows the truth. 

 
In 2018, there were 182,230 reports of Asian victims. Of these, the offender was white 24% of the 
time and Black 28% of the time. For comparison, the US population is 62% White, 12% Black, 17% 
Hispanic, and 6% Asian.


Now of course this doesn't specifically mention "hate crimes" but we all know what we have seen in countless news reports and of course we have solid data about total crimes.

But since the stat you are asking for isn't available you can still just sit there and be an ostrich. 

But even though you will act that way. You know the truth. I know the truth. Everybody knows the truth. 


Sorry, but that ain't the truth. You are just repeating a fiction that certain people want to see as it reinforces their preexisting prejudices. Show me some actual hate crime data with a link this time proving this so called truth as you know it and I will concede you are right.

 
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if we could just make people stop doing criminal things, police wouldn't be put in situations 

my point is, the problem is STILL the criminals 

 
While you are at it - can you make the police stop doing criminal things?

As always - the problem is still the criminals in police uniforms...


what a bizarre thought process to me

a criminal escalates a situation by non-compliance and when the police have to react to that situation and it goes wrong ... blame the police instead of the person who started the entire incident ?

I had an ex-wife like that  ...she'd do something wrong, I'd react, her feelings would be hurt and then I'd be forced to apologize for something she started

 
what a bizarre thought process to me

a criminal escalates a situation by non-compliance and when the police have to react to that situation and it goes wrong ... blame the police instead of the person who started the entire incident ?

I had an ex-wife like that  ...she'd do something wrong, I'd react, her feelings would be hurt and then I'd be forced to apologize for something she started
Especially when the person that had the non compliance had open warrants and probably had shot somebody in the head. 

When will people realize that the whole narrative of "they were scared of being killed by the police" is not why these criminals react as they do. They are scared of being scooped up for open warrants or are violating parole/probation is a much more common reason. 

 
what a bizarre thought process to me

a criminal escalates a situation by non-compliance and when the police have to react to that situation and it goes wrong ... blame the police instead of the person who started the entire incident ?

I had an ex-wife like that  ...she'd do something wrong, I'd react, her feelings would be hurt and then I'd be forced to apologize for something she started
Are you suggesting that ANY response by police is acceptable because the criminal provoked the response?

Even if the response is outside of training protocols?

 
While you are at it - can you make the police stop doing criminal things?

As always - the problem is still the criminals in police uniforms...


My mother told all of us growing up.  If you don`t want to deal with the police don`t commit the crimes that lead to intereractions.  We grew up in a poor area.  Like clockworkk the people I knew who had problems with the police were the same ones breaking into cars, shoplifting and driving drunk.  Very few law abiding people ever had an issue.

Sure most of the time you will get away with the crimes but when you don`t it usually does not end well.

When police show up on a crime scene or during an altercation it is because they were called to be there by locals. No crime, no call, no police.  Easy-peasy.

 
Are you suggesting that ANY response by police is acceptable because the criminal provoked the response?

Even if the response is outside of training protocols?


I never said that

I've said repeatedly in the past 99% of police interactions with civilians go right, extremely few go wrong. that 1% needs looked at of course but in almost every circumstance/situations, the police are there because someone did something wrong / criminal

IIRC the Tulsa shooting, woman police officer, guy on interstate ... I felt that was murder. The Minneapolis shooting with the officer shooting across his partner and killing a woman that was reporting a crime - that was murder

Most of the whites killed by police and most of the blacks killed by police and browns and every color/sex/gender/race .... they did something really bad/wrong and they were shot because of it

Police have exceptionally hard jobs - and the liberals in this country make it so so much more difficult IMO but yes, in the event of a police shooting, it needs looked at, every time but the core problem is the people who do wrong and start the entire process of conflict 

 
My mother told all of us growing up.  If you don`t want to deal with the police don`t commit the crimes that lead to intereractions.  We grew up in a poor area.  Like clockworkk the people I knew who had problems with the police were the same ones breaking into cars, shoplifting and driving drunk.  Very few law abiding people ever had an issue.

Sure most of the time you will get away with the crimes but when you don`t it usually does not end well.

When police show up on a crime scene or during an altercation it is because they were called to be there by locals. No crime, no call, no police.  Easy-peasy.
except when being pulled over for having an air freshener in your car? 

 
except when being pulled over for having an air freshener in your car? 


And expired tags and a warrant for arrest?    Still did not make it right.

But Pinky, if he did not resist and kick officers and try to drive away would the result been the same? Every action cause reactions.

Again I am very sorry this incident happened. Could have been prevented though by both sides?

 
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And expired tags and a warrant for arrest?    Still did not make it right.

But Pinky, if he did not resist and kick officers and try to drive away would the result been the same? Every action cause reactions.

Again I am very sorry this incident happened. Could have been prevented though by both sides?
By the law in which she was convicted his actions in no way led to her recklessly killing him.  That was her action period and a jury of her peers agreed.
 

If they hadn’t profiled him initially (I believe they said he was pulled over due to the air freshener and they ran the tags after) she would have enjoyed Xmas with her family.  The initial action was the profiling pull over.    Not him resisting.  

 
That might be bad if that ever actually happened. I don't usually believe 2nd hand accounts from criminals' mothers. 
I also take the police’s account with a grain of salt these days.  I’m guessing it’s somewhere in the middle.  I can’t seem to find anything that says whether the tags were ran first or the air freshener was seen first(weird law btw).  

 
By the law in which she was convicted his actions in no way led to her recklessly killing him.  That was her action period and a jury of her peers agreed.
 

If they hadn’t profiled him initially (I believe they said he was pulled over due to the air freshener and they ran the tags after) she would have enjoyed Xmas with her family.  The initial action was the profiling pull over.    Not him resisting.  


Who said profiling? It was a black rookie officer that noticed the issues.

Outstanding warrents, expired tags?  Then kicking and trying to drive away.  Lots of blame to pass around here.  

Again, I wish he never resisted or was just tased after resisting.

 
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Who said profiling? It was a black rookie officer that noticed the issues.

Outstanding warrents, expired tags?  Then kicking and trying to drive away.  Lots of blame to pass around here.  

Again, I wish he never resisted or was just tased after resisting.
Black cops can still profile.  
 

and yes he should have just been tased.  Instead he was shot dead.  Which is the issue in this case and why she was convicted.  It’s unfortunate for both sides.  But a life was taken unnecessarily.  

 
Black cops can still profile.  
 

and yes he should have just been tased.  Instead he was shot dead.  Which is the issue in this case and why she was convicted.  It’s unfortunate for both sides.  But a life was taken unnecessarily.  


That I agree. Don`t ever want any life lost.  What was the profiling though?

If the same person of another race was pulled over for the same thing is that profiling?

 
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That I agree. Don`t ever want any life lost.  What was the profiling though?

If the same person of another race was pulled over for the same thing is that profiling?
yes but we would need to see the stats on these pull overs.  I would bet most are minorities.  And even if they were white i would say this law is bs and simply a way to pull someone over whenever you choose. And if we leave that at the officers discretion…. We’ll i think we know how that will go and there are plenty of stats around racial profiling to back that up.

There have been several legal challenges of this particular law in numerous states.  Not many successful though.  https://law.justia.com/cases/vermont/supreme-court/2015/2014-032.html
 

Who is to say they may not have won such a challenge if he was taken in alive?  And that is why we can’t let police play judge and jury.  

 
Maybe minorities are more likely to have things hanging from their mirrors? 
If that’s the case then it’s even more blatant the reasoning for that law.  I have no idea if that’s true, but then again i did just get my car washed and i happen to have one of those trees hanging from my car 👀👀👀.  
 

Again seems like a law for which it’s sole purpose is to pull someone over for no reason.  

 
Maybe create a thread for that.  :shrug:  


no, I think its a very important part of this thread as well - surely this isn't a thread solely for bashing police but rather one for discussing the entire topic ? which should include every time police get it right, every time police lose their lives protecting citizens and all that ?

 
no, I think its a very important part of this thread as well - surely this isn't a thread solely for bashing police but rather one for discussing the entire topic ? which should include every time police get it right, every time police lose their lives protecting citizens and all that ?
But noone is arguing there arent good police or that they dont get it right.  The focus here are when people die at the hands of the police and when that is or may be criminal.  If you want to celebrate them thats cool but create a blue lives matter thread.  There are sure to be more stories of them doing good which is great but that would only serve to derail this thread.  Maybe that's your purpose though? 

As the mods like to say, stay on topic. 

 
But noone is arguing there arent good police or that they dont get it right.  The focus here are when people die at the hands of the police and when that is or may be criminal.  If you want to celebrate them thats cool but create a blue lives matter thread.  There are sure to be more stories of them doing good which is great but that would only serve to derail this thread.  Maybe that's your purpose though? 

As the mods like to say, stay on topic. 


I think its very much on topic to discuss the entire police and what their hands do - I think its very relevant to be honest 

 
I never said that

I've said repeatedly in the past 99% of police interactions with civilians go right, extremely few go wrong. that 1% needs looked at of course but in almost every circumstance/situations, the police are there because someone did something wrong / criminal

IIRC the Tulsa shooting, woman police officer, guy on interstate ... I felt that was murder. The Minneapolis shooting with the officer shooting across his partner and killing a woman that was reporting a crime - that was murder

Most of the whites killed by police and most of the blacks killed by police and browns and every color/sex/gender/race .... they did something really bad/wrong and they were shot because of it

Police have exceptionally hard jobs - and the liberals in this country make it so so much more difficult IMO but yes, in the event of a police shooting, it needs looked at, every time but the core problem is the people who do wrong and start the entire process of conflict 
Sure, alright, it's the liberals always making LEO's jobs much more difficult than they'd otherwise be.........riiiiiggghhht?

 
yes but we would need to see the stats on these pull overs.  I would bet most are minorities.  And even if they were white i would say this law is bs and simply a way to pull someone over whenever you choose. And if we leave that at the officers discretion…. We’ll i think we know how that will go and there are plenty of stats around racial profiling to back that up.

There have been several legal challenges of this particular law in numerous states.  Not many successful though.  https://law.justia.com/cases/vermont/supreme-court/2015/2014-032.html
 

Who is to say they may not have won such a challenge if he was taken in alive?  And that is why we can’t let police play judge and jury.  
How many people have been pulled over for something stupid and police found illegal guns and got them off the street? Or heroin? Or the driver was wanted on felony charges?

How many lives were saved?

Ive been pulled over for nothing a few times. I have no problem with it

 
How many people have been pulled over for something stupid and police found illegal guns and got them off the street? Or heroin? Or the driver was wanted on felony charges?

How many lives were saved?

Ive been pulled over for nothing a few times. I have no problem with it
i do when the majority of those being pulled over look like me and not you.  

 
Not true.  Whites make up more of the total traffic stops than blacks, but acts are more likely to be pulled over and more likely to be searched.  
Im sure as they are a larger percentage of population but the proportion of stops is higher for blacks which is what i meant. 

 

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