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Matt Ryan under Shanny and Quinn (1 Viewer)

Englishteacher

Footballguy
Searched and didn't see a Matt Ryan thread that was recent.

I just don't see Ryan getting it done at a high level this year. Tell me I'm wrong.

Ryan is a franchise QB but not super studly.

Julio is Julio and has the foot thing over him.

Roddy is in the latter stages of his career and can't stay healthy.

Lack of secondary targets.

The Oline is bad.

No great RB.

Defense the cupboard is bare.

Shanny is more of a run guy.

Quinn comes from a run first team.

Reasons for optimism?

The offense is said to be more up tempo.

Better coaching.

Quinn will improve the defense which gives the offense more opportunities.

High draft picks.

I see a late QB1. I'm a little scared he'll do worse than last year for fantasy. Real NFL, he'll be better.

 
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It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.

 
It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.
how does getting a good rb hurt ryan owners? if anything it helps ryan owners since they may have to put a few more in the box to stop the run.

 
It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.
Gurley would certainly be the wild card there. IF, he truly is the "transcendent" talent some people purport and his knee checks out, he might just be the best value on the board even with the "devaluing" of the running back position.

Another scenario in the draft, one of either Cooper or White falling to them. I could see White being there. THAT, would be huge for Ryan.

Unless there are still the super stud edge rushers (defense is void a pass rush), I could see Atlanta trying to trade back in the first round, the more I look at it, there are a ton of holes to fill.

 
It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.
how does getting a good rb hurt ryan owners? if anything it helps ryan owners since they may have to put a few more in the box to stop the run.
No kidding - that was dumb analysis.

Lacy isn't hurting Rodgers' numbers. If anything, a good running game makes QBs more efficient when they do throw. Might mean less pass attempts overall but the yardage/TDs may even increase.

 
It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.
how does getting a good rb hurt ryan owners? if anything it helps ryan owners since they may have to put a few more in the box to stop the run.
No kidding - that was dumb analysis.

Lacy isn't hurting Rodgers' numbers. If anything, a good running game makes QBs more efficient when they do throw. Might mean less pass attempts overall but the yardage/TDs may even increase.
I agree with the efficiency part but if they turn to a run based offense that's another thing.

 
In my opinion, Ryan is talented enough as a passer to establish an efficient pass-based offense. However, he doesn't have the team around him to do it. He's off the cuffs of the Brees-Manning-Brady types but is firmly in that second tier of a true franchise QB.

 
Quinn's been very vocal about the idea that his philosophy is to take the players you have, know their strengths, and build your team to play to those strengths.

With neither a road grader OLine, nor a stud RB in the stable, it's too big a hill to climb to imagine he's going to want to create a run-first offense in ATL -- especially when the makings are already there for an excellent pass attack.

I anticipate he'll be grading draftable OL based primarily on their pass blocking, and will tend to build the running game around versatility, rather than trying to recreate the SEA rushing attack (which he couldn't do anyway, since Ryan isn't a threat to push 1000 yds on the ground any time soon).

I expect ATL to be very pass-friendly this year.

 
It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.
how does getting a good rb hurt ryan owners? if anything it helps ryan owners since they may have to put a few more in the box to stop the run.
No kidding - that was dumb analysis.

Lacy isn't hurting Rodgers' numbers. If anything, a good running game makes QBs more efficient when they do throw. Might mean less pass attempts overall but the yardage/TDs may even increase.
If it takes away short redzone TD passes, that's how. If the guy is not a pass catching RB, they may start handing off near the endzone. I don't want any RB that can't catch. Matt Ryan is not Aaron Rodgers and he also doesn't have as good of WRs.

I want them to feature Freeman because he can catch out of the backfield and isn't a Jeremy Hill that can rack up TDs from 5 and in.

I could be wrong in that it actually makes their O way more explosive and they put up a TD or 2 more per game.

 
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It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.
how does getting a good rb hurt ryan owners? if anything it helps ryan owners since they may have to put a few more in the box to stop the run.
No kidding - that was dumb analysis.

Lacy isn't hurting Rodgers' numbers. If anything, a good running game makes QBs more efficient when they do throw. Might mean less pass attempts overall but the yardage/TDs may even increase.
If it takes away short redzone TD passes, that's how. If the guy is not a pass catching RB, they may start handing off near the endzone. I don't want any RB that can't catch. Matt Ryan is not Aaron Rodgers and he also doesn't have as good of WRs.

I want them to feature Freeman because he can catch out of the backfield and isn't a Jeremy Hill that can rack up TDs from 5 and in.

I could be wrong in that it actually makes their O way more explosive and they put up a TD or 2 more per game.
im sure they are not gonna abandon a guy named julio just because they have a run game.

 
It could come down to the draft. if they pick someone like Gurley, that will suck for us Ryan owners. If they leave RB for later in the draft, that bodes well as long as it's a pass catching RB.
how does getting a good rb hurt ryan owners? if anything it helps ryan owners since they may have to put a few more in the box to stop the run.
No kidding - that was dumb analysis.

Lacy isn't hurting Rodgers' numbers. If anything, a good running game makes QBs more efficient when they do throw. Might mean less pass attempts overall but the yardage/TDs may even increase.
If it takes away short redzone TD passes, that's how. If the guy is not a pass catching RB, they may start handing off near the endzone. I don't want any RB that can't catch. Matt Ryan is not Aaron Rodgers and he also doesn't have as good of WRs.

I want them to feature Freeman because he can catch out of the backfield and isn't a Jeremy Hill that can rack up TDs from 5 and in.

I could be wrong in that it actually makes their O way more explosive and they put up a TD or 2 more per game.
im sure they are not gonna abandon a guy named julio just because they have a run game.
I agree; they have strengths in Ryan and Julio that are blue chip talents.

I also agree that a Gurley type could limit red zone TD's although it would bring an overall balance to the offense that could be deadly.

 
Quinn's been very vocal about the idea that his philosophy is to take the players you have, know their strengths, and build your team to play to those strengths.

With neither a road grader OLine, nor a stud RB in the stable, it's too big a hill to climb to imagine he's going to want to create a run-first offense in ATL -- especially when the makings are already there for an excellent pass attack.

I anticipate he'll be grading draftable OL based primarily on their pass blocking, and will tend to build the running game around versatility, rather than trying to recreate the SEA rushing attack (which he couldn't do anyway, since Ryan isn't a threat to push 1000 yds on the ground any time soon).

I expect ATL to be very pass-friendly this year.
I like that idea then.

I also like the up-tempo offensive idea.

It's just thinking about Shanahan and the thing you think of is running the ball. Plus, the O-line is very bad. In addition, the defense is so bad they (the offense) are playing from behind and the opposing team can sell out on the pass.

 
Quinn's been very vocal about the idea that his philosophy is to take the players you have, know their strengths, and build your team to play to those strengths.

With neither a road grader OLine, nor a stud RB in the stable, it's too big a hill to climb to imagine he's going to want to create a run-first offense in ATL -- especially when the makings are already there for an excellent pass attack.

I anticipate he'll be grading draftable OL based primarily on their pass blocking, and will tend to build the running game around versatility, rather than trying to recreate the SEA rushing attack (which he couldn't do anyway, since Ryan isn't a threat to push 1000 yds on the ground any time soon).

I expect ATL to be very pass-friendly this year.
I like that idea then.

I also like the up-tempo offensive idea.

It's just thinking about Shanahan and the thing you think of is running the ball. Plus, the O-line is very bad. In addition, the defense is so bad they (the offense) are playing from behind and the opposing team can sell out on the pass.
Yeah, until Quinn shows us on Sundays, it's all just lip service. But lip service is the most reliable thing we have to go on for now. :shrug:

 
No chance ATL leaves the draft without a competent bruiser RB. The defense was nothing special but they still won a buttload of games featuring a balanced offense with Turner racking up carries.

The draft will be interesting considering the prevailing notion is that they need a pass rusher but BPA will clearly be an offensive player at #8. With Julio likely getting a Fitz Megatron type deal we may see them take Cooper or white.

 
No chance ATL leaves the draft without a competent bruiser RB. The defense was nothing special but they still won a buttload of games featuring a balanced offense with Turner racking up carries.

The draft will be interesting considering the prevailing notion is that they need a pass rusher but BPA will clearly be an offensive player at #8. With Julio likely getting a Fitz Megatron type deal we may see them take Cooper or white.
Really?

They won those games keeping a healthy O-line BTW. It's hard not to find any football talking head not saying the D will be very improved this year- which means 2014's worst at getting off the field on 3rd down will give the Offense more time of possession. The Falcons will run the ball more with the extra time, but there will also be more ample plays for Ryan and the wides to strike.

Shanny Jr. is implementing the zone blocking scheme in Atlanta again and that means they will probably wait until later rounds to get your "competent bruiser RB"

 
Kyle Shanahan coaching history

Like his father Mike Shanahan, Kyle comes from a west coast passing offense combined with a zone blocking running game. Bootleg and play action are staples of the MS version of the WCO.

Gary Kubiak also from the Shanahan coaching tree became the head coach for the Houston Texans in 2006 replacing Dom Capers. The first couple seasons Kyle Shanahan worked as the receivers coach, then the QB coach under two other offensive coordinators. After both of those coaches were fired Kyle got his first chance to be a offensive coordinator in 2008. Kyle became the OC of Washington with his father Mike in 2010

2006 Hou WR coach 955 total plays 481 pass attempts 431 rushing attempts run ratio 50% OC Troy Calhoun David Carr Ron Dayne Andre Johnson 163 targets
2007 Hou QB coach 968 total plays 529 pass attempts 417 rushing attempts run ratio 46% OC Mike Sherman Matt Schaub Ron Dayne Andre Johnson (9 games) 86 targets (152)
2008 Hou offensive coordinator 1019 total plays 555 passing attempts 432 rushing attempts run ratio 46% Matt Schaub Steve Slaton Andre Johnson 171 targets
2009 Hou offensive coordinator 1043 total plays 593 passing attempts 425 rushing attempts run ratio 44% Matt Schaub Steve Slaton Andre Johnson 171 targets
2010 Was offensive coordinator 1002 total plays 605 passing attempts 351 rushing attempts run ratio 40% Donovan McNabb Ryan Torain/Clinton Portis Santana Moss 145 targets
2011 Was offensive coordinator 1032 total plays 591 passing attempts 400 rushing attempts run ratio 43% Rex Grossman Roy Helu Jabar Gaffney 114 targets
2012 Was offensive coordinator 994 total plays 442 passing attempts 519 rushing attempts run ratio 56% Robert Griffin Alfred Morris Josh Morgan 73 targets
2013 Was offensive coordinator 1107 total plays 611 passing attempts 453 rushing attempts run ratio 45% Robert Griffin Alfred Morris Pierre Garcon 181 targets
2014 Cle offensive coordinator 1010 total plays 502 passing attempts 477 rushing attempts run ratio 50% Brian Hoyer Terrance West Andrew Hawkins 112 targets
There were three seasons where an offense associated with KS had 50% or more run to pass ratio. The first season in Houston in the last year of David Carr being their starting QB. In 2012 Washington with Robert Griffin being their rookie QB. Then in 2014 with Cleveland who played Hoyer most of the year but the offense was supposedly to be built around Johnny Manziel.

So overall I don't think Kyle Shanahan favors the running game as much as some might think.

Matt Ryan is an established QB so I would not expect the run to pass ratio to tilt past the 45% mark even if they do add another RB and run the ball more.

The targets for the WR1 have been good, so I would expect some high targets for Julio Jones.

What do people think of Freeman in a Shanahan offense? Will he be a good fit? Freeman seems closer to Slaton or Helu than he does Dayne or Morris.

 
Kyle Shanahan coaching history

Like his father Mike Shanahan, Kyle comes from a west coast passing offense combined with a zone blocking running game. Bootleg and play action are staples of the MS version of the WCO.

Gary Kubiak also from the Shanahan coaching tree became the head coach for the Houston Texans in 2006 replacing Dom Capers. The first couple seasons Kyle Shanahan worked as the receivers coach, then the QB coach under two other offensive coordinators. After both of those coaches were fired Kyle got his first chance to be a offensive coordinator in 2008. Kyle became the OC of Washington with his father Mike in 2010


There were three seasons where an offense associated with KS had 50% or more run to pass ratio. The first season in Houston in the last year of David Carr being their starting QB. In 2012 Washington with Robert Griffin being their rookie QB. Then in 2014 with Cleveland who played Hoyer most of the year but the offense was supposedly to be built around Johnny Manziel.

So overall I don't think Kyle Shanahan favors the running game as much as some might think.

Matt Ryan is an established QB so I would not expect the run to pass ratio to tilt past the 45% mark even if they do add another RB and run the ball more.

The targets for the WR1 have been good, so I would expect some high targets for Julio Jones.

What do people think of Freeman in a Shanahan offense? Will he be a good fit? Freeman seems closer to Slaton or Helu than he does Dayne or Morris.
Matt Schaub was actually a pretty decent QB back in the day and arguably Andre Johnson is a HOF WR.

I can't see them giving Freeman a boatload of touches when he failed to show much in his rookie year. I suspect they'll find some help in the draft but who knows when. They have a lot of needs.

By far the strength of the team is what they can do through the air. But, this shapes up to still be a bad team unless their FA's and draft picks contribute. That leaves limited opportunities for the offense and a long way to go when they get the ball.

One good thing about Shanahan and the O line is they usually get more with less from their zone blocking scheme and that was an area of weakness last year.

Anyone have any guesses as to the run/pass ratio?

 
In my opinion Matt Ryan is a better QB than Schaub was at the time when Kyle Shanahan was coaching him. I also think Julio Jones is a similarly high talent at WR compared to Andre Johnson at that time. I don't think Pierre Garcon is the same level of talent at WR but he did have 181 targets in Griffin's second season as a QB. Santana Moss had 145 targets with McNabb in this system in 2011. So high targets for the WR1 seems very likely regardless of how well they are running the ball.

I would expect run to pass ratios to be more similar to the Houston situation than Washington, where they had a washed up McNabb, Rex Grossman (yikes) and Rookie Robert Griffin who ran a lot more than a typical QB.

 
Kyle Shanahan coaching history

Like his father Mike Shanahan, Kyle comes from a west coast passing offense combined with a zone blocking running game. Bootleg and play action are staples of the MS version of the WCO.

Gary Kubiak also from the Shanahan coaching tree became the head coach for the Houston Texans in 2006 replacing Dom Capers. The first couple seasons Kyle Shanahan worked as the receivers coach, then the QB coach under two other offensive coordinators. After both of those coaches were fired Kyle got his first chance to be a offensive coordinator in 2008. Kyle became the OC of Washington with his father Mike in 2010


There were three seasons where an offense associated with KS had 50% or more run to pass ratio. The first season in Houston in the last year of David Carr being their starting QB. In 2012 Washington with Robert Griffin being their rookie QB. Then in 2014 with Cleveland who played Hoyer most of the year but the offense was supposedly to be built around Johnny Manziel.

So overall I don't think Kyle Shanahan favors the running game as much as some might think.

Matt Ryan is an established QB so I would not expect the run to pass ratio to tilt past the 45% mark even if they do add another RB and run the ball more.

The targets for the WR1 have been good, so I would expect some high targets for Julio Jones.

What do people think of Freeman in a Shanahan offense? Will he be a good fit? Freeman seems closer to Slaton or Helu than he does Dayne or Morris.
Matt Schaub was actually a pretty decent QB back in the day and arguably Andre Johnson is a HOF WR.

I can't see them giving Freeman a boatload of touches when he failed to show much in his rookie year. I suspect they'll find some help in the draft but who knows when. They have a lot of needs.

By far the strength of the team is what they can do through the air. But, this shapes up to still be a bad team unless their FA's and draft picks contribute. That leaves limited opportunities for the offense and a long way to go when they get the ball.

One good thing about Shanahan and the O line is they usually get more with less from their zone blocking scheme and that was an area of weakness last year.

Anyone have any guesses as to the run/pass ratio?
Freeman and Jackson had the same problem the worst and the most injured O Line in 2014. Freeman's strenght is zone block running. Yea, the needs are there in other areas, not but no RB early.

 
Kyle Shanahan coaching history

Like his father Mike Shanahan, Kyle comes from a west coast passing offense combined with a zone blocking running game. Bootleg and play action are staples of the MS version of the WCO.

Gary Kubiak also from the Shanahan coaching tree became the head coach for the Houston Texans in 2006 replacing Dom Capers. The first couple seasons Kyle Shanahan worked as the receivers coach, then the QB coach under two other offensive coordinators. After both of those coaches were fired Kyle got his first chance to be a offensive coordinator in 2008. Kyle became the OC of Washington with his father Mike in 2010


There were three seasons where an offense associated with KS had 50% or more run to pass ratio. The first season in Houston in the last year of David Carr being their starting QB. In 2012 Washington with Robert Griffin being their rookie QB. Then in 2014 with Cleveland who played Hoyer most of the year but the offense was supposedly to be built around Johnny Manziel.

So overall I don't think Kyle Shanahan favors the running game as much as some might think.

Matt Ryan is an established QB so I would not expect the run to pass ratio to tilt past the 45% mark even if they do add another RB and run the ball more.

The targets for the WR1 have been good, so I would expect some high targets for Julio Jones.

What do people think of Freeman in a Shanahan offense? Will he be a good fit? Freeman seems closer to Slaton or Helu than he does Dayne or Morris.
Matt Schaub was actually a pretty decent QB back in the day and arguably Andre Johnson is a HOF WR.

I can't see them giving Freeman a boatload of touches when he failed to show much in his rookie year. I suspect they'll find some help in the draft but who knows when. They have a lot of needs.

By far the strength of the team is what they can do through the air. But, this shapes up to still be a bad team unless their FA's and draft picks contribute. That leaves limited opportunities for the offense and a long way to go when they get the ball.

One good thing about Shanahan and the O line is they usually get more with less from their zone blocking scheme and that was an area of weakness last year.

Anyone have any guesses as to the run/pass ratio?
Freeman and Jackson had the same problem the worst and the most injured O Line in 2014. Freeman's strenght is zone block running. Yea, the needs are there in other areas, not but no RB early.
I would expect D and O line early but i could see a RB mid rounds at the latest.

 
Kyle Shanahan coaching history

Like his father Mike Shanahan, Kyle comes from a west coast passing offense combined with a zone blocking running game. Bootleg and play action are staples of the MS version of the WCO.

Gary Kubiak also from the Shanahan coaching tree became the head coach for the Houston Texans in 2006 replacing Dom Capers. The first couple seasons Kyle Shanahan worked as the receivers coach, then the QB coach under two other offensive coordinators. After both of those coaches were fired Kyle got his first chance to be a offensive coordinator in 2008. Kyle became the OC of Washington with his father Mike in 2010

2006 Hou WR coach 955 total plays 481 pass attempts 431 rushing attempts run ratio 50% OC Troy Calhoun David Carr Ron Dayne Andre Johnson 163 targets
2007 Hou QB coach 968 total plays 529 pass attempts 417 rushing attempts run ratio 46% OC Mike Sherman Matt Schaub Ron Dayne Andre Johnson (9 games) 86 targets (152)
2008 Hou offensive coordinator 1019 total plays 555 passing attempts 432 rushing attempts run ratio 46% Matt Schaub Steve Slaton Andre Johnson 171 targets
2009 Hou offensive coordinator 1043 total plays 593 passing attempts 425 rushing attempts run ratio 44% Matt Schaub Steve Slaton Andre Johnson 171 targets
2010 Was offensive coordinator 1002 total plays 605 passing attempts 351 rushing attempts run ratio 40% Donovan McNabb Ryan Torain/Clinton Portis Santana Moss 145 targets
2011 Was offensive coordinator 1032 total plays 591 passing attempts 400 rushing attempts run ratio 43% Rex Grossman Roy Helu Jabar Gaffney 114 targets
2012 Was offensive coordinator 994 total plays 442 passing attempts 519 rushing attempts run ratio 56% Robert Griffin Alfred Morris Josh Morgan 73 targets
2013 Was offensive coordinator 1107 total plays 611 passing attempts 453 rushing attempts run ratio 45% Robert Griffin Alfred Morris Pierre Garcon 181 targets
2014 Cle offensive coordinator 1010 total plays 502 passing attempts 477 rushing attempts run ratio 50% Brian Hoyer Terrance West Andrew Hawkins 112 targets
There were three seasons where an offense associated with KS had 50% or more run to pass ratio. The first season in Houston in the last year of David Carr being their starting QB. In 2012 Washington with Robert Griffin being their rookie QB. Then in 2014 with Cleveland who played Hoyer most of the year but the offense was supposedly to be built around Johnny Manziel.

So overall I don't think Kyle Shanahan favors the running game as much as some might think.

Matt Ryan is an established QB so I would not expect the run to pass ratio to tilt past the 45% mark even if they do add another RB and run the ball more.

The targets for the WR1 have been good, so I would expect some high targets for Julio Jones.

What do people think of Freeman in a Shanahan offense? Will he be a good fit? Freeman seems closer to Slaton or Helu than he does Dayne or Morris.
those are some good stats, but bear in mind, I think only 7 teams were 45+% last year, and I'll bet that number's up from 2013, so even 45 is a bit high by league standards, and 8/9 years listed above were at 43+%

last year atlanta was only 27th in the league with 372 runs on 1035 plays -- 36%

 
Don't overthink Shanahan's historical ratios. He wasn't hired because of any insistence on bringing in a cookie-cutter offensive template. He was hired because his scheme fits the Falcons' existing, entrenched personnel pretty well. The OL's they have that would be hard to part with financially are better suited to a zone-blocking scheme, and Kyle's seeming mandate that his QB develop tunnel vision for the X wideout meshes nicely with the fact that they have one of the best young ones in the biz.

History has shown that you need a particular type of runner to grasp and immediately excel with a ZBS in place, and it's hard to say whether any of the guys on staff can handle it. But history's also shown that it's not particularly hard or expensive to find such a guy. :shrug:

With the running game being a work in progress, and the passing game being pretty well established in the things Shanahan's going to want to feature, it seems pretty clear the pass -- especially the Schaub-to-Johnson-style stuff -- should be heavily leaned upon.

 
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Is the O-Line nimble? IIRC that is a very high requirement for at least Gibbs version of ZBS to work (I'm assuming Shanahan is using that version)

 
Is the O-Line nimble? IIRC that is a very high requirement for at least Gibbs version of ZBS to work (I'm assuming Shanahan is using that version)
It was deemed that all retained fit the profile except for veteran guard Blalock who was too slow for the requirements and he was released. When Gibbs worked with the Falcons a handful of years ago and when the scheme was introduced, an immediate positive impact was achieved. I watch all of Atlanta's games, but when (if bad memory serves me), I think Mike Smith came on board the new OC's he hired scrapped the zone.

The last 2 years lack of quality depth was the problem for the Falcons on the O line more than anything- the big culprit was the huge amount of injuries

 
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