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Deck pricing and materials questions (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Big Guy
- Start date
doowain
Footballguy
Thanks!
Everything is TimberTech. Railing and lights. I did custom rail packs because I did the square metal balusters. Kind of a pain in the ### with the first one (because you have to drill the holes yourself for the balusters), but it's a breeze after you know how to do it.
Doing riser lights on every step, so hopefully that isn't too bad.
matttyl
Footballguy
I had 17 horizontal and 4 stair railing kits delivered to my place this morning. The "in stock" stuff at my local Home Depot (Veranda). Very much considering returning them and going with something else, but not really sure what yet. I need to make a choice soon, though, decking is going down in a few days.Thanks!
Everything is TimberTech. Railing and lights. I did custom rail packs because I did the square metal balusters. Kind of a pain in the ### with the first one (because you have to drill the holes yourself for the balusters), but it's a breeze after you know how to do it.
Doing riser lights on every step, so hopefully that isn't too bad.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
If you don't have the budget or friends with a self-leveling rotary laser, you can use/make an old-school water level for around $10. That's what I used for mine, and it worked perfectly.
I'll also second the LedgerLoks - I used something similar, but I think it was just the Simpson brand. Worked like a charm. The only thing you may need is a larger drill if you're using something smaller for other screws.
jwb
Footballguy
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Did you get THIS for pulling up the old deck? I got one of these for my demo stage - Took me maybe 2 hours to rip up the whole deck. Fantastic tool. Built like a tank. Buy it - use it - sell it on Craigslist for 95% of what you paid for it. I sold mine for $70 in a matter of days after I was done. I think all I really lost was maybe $5 and shipping costs.
doowain
Footballguy
Right on. I don't have any experience with other composite railing systems, but I was very happy with the TimberTech stuff. Seems ultra durable. I think the wood underneath would rot away before I saw any issue with the railing.
Plus, their post sleeves they changed recently (I think). There used to be an issue where the sleeves would be too tight on the 4x4 posts. So, they made the interior of the sleeve larger. You have to shim the sleeves, but I prefer it that way. It makes it easier if your posts are a "little" off plumb or the post has warped after install at all (I had that with one).
I will suggest not going with one of their more inexpensive options if you change to TimberTech and decide to do post lights. I got RadianceRail (their top line product), so the post sleeves are 5x5 with channels inside for running the lighting. If you go with the ExpressRail (and there is another whose name escapes me) you'll have to notch out your post where the light will go so you can feed the wire up the post. Thank God I didn't have to deal with that. Sounded awful.
matttyl
Footballguy
Yes. Same price at Sears, though, but with free shipping. Great tool!
And should anyone else ever get one, you can turn the head of the tool around 180 degrees, making pulling boards closest to the house easier.
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matttyl
Footballguy
Contractor wants me to swap out the Veranda stuff with top end Trex stuff (to go along with Trex decking and the waterproofing stuff I got as well). Calculated the numbers and it's roughly an extra $1k to go that way. All the screws and fasteners and such would be hidden, which is nice.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I did the Trex railing stuff on mine. I can't comment on the TimberTech stuff, but I'm really happy with the Trex stuff. Easy install, and as you noted, you can't see any screws or anything.. The channels for wiring were a little tight, but I also went with a larger gauge wire than I probably needed. Also, if you're looking to do lights, check the two big online deck stores for close-out's. I got the prior year's Trex Lighted Post Caps for 1/2 off. They apparently changed the connector on the new models. I wasn't using a Trex transformer anyway and was going to just cut the wire and connect to my own transformer, so I didn't care. Saved me a bundle.
matttyl
Footballguy
Yes, thinking about a few post cap lights as well as stair lighting. Ok, so I know just about nothing with this lighting stuff for decks. How is it all wired up? How many can you wire together? How is it wired back to the house, and how does one turn them on and off (they won't have a wall switch in the house, right)? Thanks for any help with that you can lend. That seems like something I should be able to knock out myself without my contractor.
doowain
Footballguy
I have this transformer. It has a built in photocell, so that you can set it to come on automatically for 4, 6 or 8 hours after dusk. It also has a straight on/off switch. You just run your main wire from that to the first light and then chain them together after that. I think a line can hold 40w and each of my post lights is 1.6w.
Then you just mount the transformer and plug it in to an outside outlet. Way more simple than you'd think.
matttyl
Footballguy
The on/off switch is on the transformer, though? I'd like to hide that transformer a bit, but be able to turn on the deck lights when letting the dogs out (if lights aren't on auto timer).
doowain
Footballguy
Yes, it's on the transformer. It's not big at all. It's only 4-1/4" x 6-1/4" x 3-5/8" so it won't look odd if you mount it next to your outlet.
I'm going to set mine to auto probably. Comes on at dusk. Goes off at dawn. Shouldn't really be any need to ever turn it on/off if you put it on any of the auto settings (auto, 4, 6, or 8 hours).
Fat Nick
Footballguy
doowain's got the basics.
My system is a little bit different. I have 1 landscape (12V) lighting set-up in the front of my house that I had prior to building the deck. I got another transformer for the deck, and liked the brand I had, so I got another. In general, all these lights can be powered by any 12v transformer. The one doowain linked is perfectly fine. I'm partial to the brand I've been using, which is VOLT - they're built REALLY well. The cases are stainless steel with nice locks and several different switch options - either from them, or DIY. I have the 150v for my back/deck area, and a 300w around front. Honestly, if you're using LED's, you'd be hard pressed to need more than 150, much less 300. The big wattage was more for the incandescent bulbs. Everything should be LED now. With LED, the wiring is easy - you just daisy chain them all together. Think of it as one wire that runs from your transformer to each light. At each light junction, you cut the wire, and splice all the +'s in and all the -'s in. Each junction would have 3 wires - 2 for the main wire where you cut it to splice in, and 1 for the light. With incandescent, you had to worry about keeping the lengths equal or the bulbs would be differing brightness, but that's not an issue with LED. You can also get away with a much smaller wire, etc. You can totally do it yourself. Not hard at all. Tedious, but not hard. Check out the VOLT website linked above - they have some good information. If you want to add landscape lighting, I HIGHLY recommend their stuff. It's much better quality than the box stores, but much cheaper than the "professional grade" stuff.
As for turning them on/off - Several options. As doowain noted, if you just want them on when it's dark, a photocell will do. The VOLT ones have a pass-through so you can use a photocell or a timer, or a switch of your choosing. I have my house set up with Z-wave home automation, so I just wired an appliance module in-line with the switch and I can control it via timer, from my phone, or from a Multi-Switch I installed by the deck door. It's really all about how complicated or simple you want it to be. I wanted zones for mine too, so I have a relay that can turn on/off the landscape lighting in addition to the deck lighting without needing a 2nd transformer, but that's far from necessary.
Be careful - 12V landscape lighting is addictive. It looks SO good at night. It'll make you feel like you're at a resort or something. I started with 5 path lights, and I've got close to 20 fixtures now, not counting 15 or so deck cap lights.
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Fat Nick
Footballguy
I have mine mounted under the deck on the back-side of one of my support posts. In theory, you could get a simple remote controlled switch and probably control it that way too...Either an outdoor rated one, or just get a waterproof outlet box to cover your outlet and the switch. The switch on the transformer would be set to always-on, and then you'd use the wireless switch to turn power to the transformer on/off.
matttyl
Footballguy
Thanks for the info. At the start, I'll just be looking to do around 8 to 10 cap lights and stair riser lights. Trex makes a decent solar powered cap light, but will need to run wiring for any stair lighting I do. As I'll have a "deck over a deck", the bottom deck will have a ceiling with can lights which will have plenty of light spill over into the backyard, plus we have floodlights on the back of the house which light up the backyard pretty good anyway. I don't think any "landscape" lighting will be needed.
belljr
Footballguy
so give me an idea on pricing of flooring and railings.
400sq ft
Basic rectangle more or less.
Flooring I see ~ $30 for 12ft board.
Let's say Timbertek railing
ETA: After doing a quick calculator - I think I'm looking at 4-6K way less than I thought.
My current boards are 45, think I'll go 90 this time.
400sq ft
Basic rectangle more or less.
Flooring I see ~ $30 for 12ft board.
Let's say Timbertek railing
ETA: After doing a quick calculator - I think I'm looking at 4-6K way less than I thought.
My current boards are 45, think I'll go 90 this time.
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doowain
Footballguy
500 sq ft cost me about $9K. But that is not cutting corners on anything but I made mistakes along the way. Doing 12 inches on center. $1100 of that is lighting. 5K of that is Railing. Rest is pressure treated.
FWIW, I got a quote on this deck before I decided to do it myself and it was $24K. And that was without lighting.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I'd strongly consider going with hard-wired for the post caps...I've never seen solar lights that I like long-term. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but they dim faster, don't look as nice, and at some point burn out and need the power storage cells replaced. My old path lights (before I went wired) were solar, and they were garbage. If you've got to run wiring and get a transformer for the stairs, just get hard-wired caps too. Just my $0.02.matttyl said:
Also, if you've got to have electric done below the deck to support the fan/cans, etc, just have the electrician put a switched outlet down there and mount the switch on a surface mount box by the door up top - then you can plug your transformer into that switched outlet, and use the switch to turn the 12v lights on and off.
I'm so jealous that you can have a space BELOW your deck. I wish my deck was high enough to do that.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
belljr said:
Just for comparison, my deck is around the same size. I went with Trex Transcend line all around (decking, rails, cap lights, etc. and I came in at around $15K in materials. I've got a VERY comprehensive pricing spreadsheet that broke it all out if you're interested, I'd be happy to share
- PT Lumber (framing, beams, etc) $1,500
- Trex Decking and Fascia (20' boards) $7,000 <-- I had A LOT of one color left. Probably could've been closer to $6,000 or less here. I used it for other things, but I had a lot left over
- Trex Railing/Posts $3,500
- Simpson Metal Hangars and brackets $700
- Other stuff (concrete, nails and fasteners, flashing and water protection, tools and equipment rental $2,300ish.
matttyl
Footballguy
Yes, it was a big reason of why we got this house. Just over 500 sq ft up top (with a view), and the same size below (though with the 6x6 posts and such to deal with). I should be able to have the ceiling about 8' above the deck, and the area that will have a ceiling will be roughly 15'x30' (it's hard to waterproof around the 4x4 railing posts on the top deck). That's 450 sq ft of "usable space" (can't have lot of electronics or nice furniture) which will be my son's outdoor playroom, a space for my dogs to always be in a shady and dry place, and a fun outdoor space where I can work on my mountain bikes and just hose the floor down if needed. Eventually I'd like to have a large projector and screen set up down there for "family movie night" and football games.
belljr
Footballguy
I already have a deck and frame is in good shape. Didn't think about the Fascia.
I'm not looking into top of the line here. But thanks
Fat Nick
Footballguy
The house I grew up in had a similar space. It was concrete, and below the deck. Admittedly NOT weatherproofed, but still sheltered. It was a great place to just "be a kid" outdoors, etc.
matttyl
Footballguy
Sweet. Mine also has access to the double doors of the "walkout basement." Actually, this is very similar to what I'll have - just with a ceiling for the lower space (and I can't tell if that's wood or stone floor for the bottom section). Still looking at options for lighting, I really don't want to spend over $1k on that part of it, but it's getting hard not to. Each damn cap light is over $50.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
You probably already found this site, but keep an eye out HERE. Shop the sales and clearance stuff. Just keep an eye on the prices. They'll clear stuff out when manufacturers change the connector types, etc. So many of these companies put these proprietary plugs on the lights...when they change the plug, they clear out the old model. The thing is, 12v is 12v...just cut the connector off, and use wire nuts to connect the ends and they'll work just fine. I got my Trex lighted caps off of here for ~$50 each...I'm sure some of the other brands are less on clearance.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I put a roof over about 1/3 of mine last summer (covering maybe 200 sq ft). I did it as a "shed" roof, coming off the roof of my house at a lower pitch (as opposed to an a-frame perpendicular to the house roof). Had to get a permit (YMMV depending on where you live for that). Sunk 6x6 posts into footings, wrapped those in vinyl, and finished the ceiling with vinyl soffit and a ceiling fan.
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
Did I miss something or does DecksDirect not sell decking?
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matttyl
Footballguy
They don't, as they can't beat the prices that your local Home Depot or Lowes (or other lumber yard) can do, mostly due to shipping. I used them for the other stuff on my recent project, but not for decking myself (went to home depot for that).