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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Derrick Henry, Titans


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Oh hell no I ain’t reading that 

there is no presser on Saturday. There are usually guessers on ff sites- because that's what we want them to do- but don't leap like it's news.  Jim Wyatt will absolutely have ya covered here. He

Derrick Henry going 99 yards while stiff-arming people into the sun weeks after everyone who drafted him cut him, traded him or vowed never to start him again is the most Derrick Henry thing ever.

11 minutes ago, jtd13 said:

I was on the fence with this guy, and I think I missed the boat here. I get people saying it is just preseason, but it looks like his game is translating just fine. 

It was a slight reach for me. I took him at 101 (9.05), which is fine, but he was RB29 in our draft - most had him around RB35 when we drafted, behind the likes of DeAngelo & Ivory. Glad I ignored the DD for once.

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In my humble opinion,

When talent is this great (HIGH ceiling, Top-10 Potential) and has the resume backed up by the eye-test at the NFL-level... I think you HAVE to take a chance and take that flier. The payoff could be astronomical, making this perfect blend of Cheap/High-Reward an irreplaceable situation. 

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8 hours ago, elguapo07 said:

Henry is such a physical freak from a height / weight / speed  standpoint that I really think you have to go way way back for a realistic comp.  Brandon Jacobs comp is a joke, and quite frankly is lazy, as Henry has much better long speed and is flat out a much better runner than Jacobs ever thought of being.  Henry is a downhill runner and is an absolute nightmare when he gets a full head of steam.  Jacobs was a battering ram, Henry can be just a physical but looks to, and can get to, the second level and has the long speed to take it to the house.

Henry will be a great pro - I've been watching football for 40+ yrs and have been fascinated with RBs since I was a kid.  This kid is old school, Sam Cunningham and Chuck Muncie are two big backs that come to mind when I look at Henry.  Thing is, Henry looks just as strong but with much better long speed and therefore I think he will be better than both, perhaps much better.  I'm all in on this kid.

Great comparisons and people will regret passing on him in dynasty leagues. 

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7 hours ago, Jake22 said:

So now Henry is Chris Johnson AND A.Peterson, oh kay got it.

Abdullah had some major hype last year.  Different type of player obviously but every year there's one or so....we remember the ones that work out and forget the ones that don't.  Making no judgement on Henry...just an observation.

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27 minutes ago, Banger said:

Abdullah had some major hype last year.  Different type of player obviously but every year there's one or so....we remember the ones that work out and forget the ones that don't.  Making no judgement on Henry...just an observation.

Agreed, Abdullah was going as early as the 3rd round last year. I like Henry but I'm seeing him go earlier and earlier. At this point, I'm going to hope he gets off to a slow start and gets dropped for a hot WW pick up. As that seems like the only way he will land on any of my squads.

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29 minutes ago, Banger said:

Abdullah had some major hype last year.  Different type of player obviously but every year there's one or so....we remember the ones that work out and forget the ones that don't.  Making no judgement on Henry...just an observation.

I'm not making judgement either, but people  in here are already handing him the starting job , I'm not ready to do that just yet.

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eyepopping pre-season

 

Rushing
Rk Player Team Pos Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM
1 Terron Ward ATL RB 22 22.0 62 2.8 62.0 2 20 4 18.2 1 0 0
2 Kerwynn Williams ARI RB 27 13.5 115 4.3 57.5 0 18 5 18.5 0 0 0
3 Mack Brown WAS RB 39 9.8 227 5.8 56.8 1 60T 8 20.5 3 1 0
4 Derrick Henry TEN RB 34 8.5 216 6.4 54.0 3 26 15 44.1 2 0 0
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6 minutes ago, Timmay said:

My biggest question with Henry is if he will get the right opportunity this year. Unless Murray gets injured, I just always see Murray getting touches no matter what. That is what scares me in redraft, in dynasty im all in. 

Jeremy hill is a pretty successful big back who has done ok in a split.  Let's compare him with henry


Derrick Henry 6'3" 247 Jeremy hill 6'0" 233
Henry 4.54 40 Hill 4.66 40
Henry 37" vert Hill 29" vert
Henry 130" broad Hill 113" broad
Henry 4.38 shuttle Hill 4.59 shuttle
Henry 7.20 3 cone Hill 7.64 3 cone

Look at it.  Henry absolutely demolishes hill in every category they measure.  He's much bigger, much faster, much more powerful, much quicker, much more agile, and has a much better pedigree coming out of college.

I know i said the word "much" a lot right there, but 4.54 is "much" faster than 4.66. Jumping 37 inches straight up when you're also heavier is "much" more than 29 inches. That's 8 inches.  I think my vertical leap is about 8 inches.  It's insane.

Think about how good hill would be without gio.  Actually, think about how good he actually was when gio got hurt and hill finished with over 1000 yards and 6 tds in his last 9 games.  Then imagine that in the offseason, he grew 3 inches and could suddenly jump 17 inches further and run the 3 cone .44 seconds faster and went back in time and won the heisman.

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2 hours ago, Banger said:

Abdullah had some major hype last year.  Different type of player obviously but every year there's one or so....we remember the ones that work out and forget the ones that don't.  Making no judgement on Henry...just an observation.

My preference is they perform well versus having them not perform well. 

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13 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

 

The thing with Henry is that his critics focus on what he can't do rather than what he can. 

Henry doesn't have the lateral quickness of McCoy or Tavon Austin nor does he have the low center of gravity of an MJD or Barry Sanders.  He runs upright and is a huge target. To stop/contain Henry you need to penetrate and stop him in the backfield before he gets going.  Henry is a long strider and takes two or three steps to get in gear, if your DT or ILB are getting all the tackles on Henry then you are probably keeping him in check.

What critics seem to overlook is that what Henry does well, he does very well.  He's a big back that needs two three steps to get in gear.  He's an excellent one cut and plant your foot runner. Once he breaks thru to the second level he's a nightmare and his long speed is deceptive because he has a long stride.  If your safeties are making the tackles on him then you are in trouble.  He'll pop off 6, 8, 10yds and then he can break a big one.  If given a crease he's quick enough to get thru it and his agility is underrated by many in that once he's in gear he can plant his foot and cut at almost top speed.  Many power backs look to plant their helmet in the defenders numbers once they reach the second level, Henry doesn't shy away from contact but seems to first look for a lane to bust a big one then lowers the boom when contact is imminent.  When Henry wears down a D its when he's getting to the second level and pounding guys 30-40lbs less than him, then he busts one.  

I really think defenses need to win the battle in the A and B gaps to contain Henry, some teams will and he'll have games of 17 carries for 48 yds.  But, if the Titans can get Henry a lane in those gaps he can do a lot of damage.  Henry doesn't have Chris Johnson's speed to get to the outside and turn up field in a blink of an eye but his ability to go off tackle, get in gear and turn up field is underrated.  He takes a few steps to get in gear but when he does its advantage Henry. 

Henry has his flaws but what he can do he does it just about as good as any back in the league.  The NFL is all about mismatches and Henry can be a mismatch if the Titans can play to his strength.

 

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11 hours ago, ImTheScientist said:

Have you won the internet yet? No need to get upset bro.... And it is ok to be wrong. Out of college I didn't think HENRY would be a good pro. After watching his first preseason game I changed my mind. I guess I could have stayed stubborn but it's clear he is a special talent .... Really should have been a first round pick.

Not mad at all dude, just giving my objective opinion, most people in this thread just want to pump up Henry more instead of throwing facts out. He has looked good, but I've seen some of his runs were he looks like JAG. Not every run this dude has made in preseason has been electric, judging by this thread you would think they were. He still has to sit behind Murray, who has looked great. Just trying to point that out to people who are on the fence in redraft leagues, in dynasty knock yourself out he's as good as anyone right now looking a couple years down the road.

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1 hour ago, elguapo07 said:

The thing with Henry is that his critics focus on what he can't do rather than what he can. 

Henry doesn't have the lateral quickness of McCoy or Tavon Austin nor does he have the low center of gravity of an MJD or Barry Sanders.  He runs upright and is a huge target. To stop/contain Henry you need to penetrate and stop him in the backfield before he gets going.  Henry is a long strider and takes two or three steps to get in gear, if your DT or ILB are getting all the tackles on Henry then you are probably keeping him in check.

What critics seem to overlook is that what Henry does well, he does very well.  He's a big back that needs two three steps to get in gear.  He's an excellent one cut and plant your foot runner. Once he breaks thru to the second level he's a nightmare and his long speed is deceptive because he has a long stride.  If your safeties are making the tackles on him then you are in trouble.  He'll pop off 6, 8, 10yds and then he can break a big one.  If given a crease he's quick enough to get thru it and his agility is underrated by many in that once he's in gear he can plant his foot and cut at almost top speed.  Many power backs look to plant their helmet in the defenders numbers once they reach the second level, Henry doesn't shy away from contact but seems to first look for a lane to bust a big one then lowers the boom when contact is imminent.  When Henry wears down a D its when he's getting to the second level and pounding guys 30-40lbs less than him, then he busts one.  

I really think defenses need to win the battle in the A and B gaps to contain Henry, some teams will and he'll have games of 17 carries for 48 yds.  But, if the Titans can get Henry a lane in those gaps he can do a lot of damage.  Henry doesn't have Chris Johnson's speed to get to the outside and turn up field in a blink of an eye but his ability to go off tackle, get in gear and turn up field is underrated.  He takes a few steps to get in gear but when he does its advantage Henry. 

Henry has his flaws but what he can do he does it just about as good as any back in the league.  The NFL is all about mismatches and Henry can be a mismatch if the Titans can play to his strength.

 

Nice analysis. I saw a Sport Science piece on ESPN about Henry and Zeke. Henry's 5 yard acceleration was the fastest measured of any player in the last 3 drafts; not just RBs, of any player. They had some other interesting measurables on him as well, basically comparing his size and acceleration in the open field to a wrecking ball traveling 5MPH and he broke through a series of bags with the combined weight of the Denvers D line in 1.3 seconds. Just kind of reinforced that he truly is a freakish athlete at the RB position.

You've outlined some of his negatives. He is a huge target with a high center of gravity and it will be interesting to see him facing off against LBs his same size.

One of his positives that I think is underestimated is he has a great stiff arm. I'm on board and hope he does well in the NFL. He's a fun player to watch.

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14 hours ago, elguapo07 said:

Henry is such a physical freak from a height / weight / speed  standpoint that I really think you have to go way way back for a realistic comp.  Brandon Jacobs comp is a joke, and quite frankly is lazy, as Henry has much better long speed and is flat out a much better runner than Jacobs ever thought of being.  

Maybe the Brandon Jacobs comparisons aren't as lazy (or insulting) as you seem to think they are. Maybe you didn't watch Jacobs enough or just remember his last years in the league where he was a shell of himself. He wasn't just a "battering ram", he actually had very good speed for his size - maybe just a tad slower than Henry - and quick feet. He ran sweeps nearly as often as he would ram the ball up the middle. Jacobs averaged 4.5 yards per carry and 9.1 yards per reception in a 8 year career - and only his team's RBBC philosophy while sharing the backfield with two very good RBs in Tiki Barber and Ahmad Bradshaw (with some Danny Ware tossed in as well) kept his raw stats down. But even with that he still had two seasons  with over 1,000 rushing yards and two more with over 800 yards rushing and he had 64 total touchdowns in 8 seasons. 

Personally while I think Henry is capable of more, I don't think it's a bad comparison at all.

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31 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Maybe the Brandon Jacobs comparisons aren't as lazy (or insulting) as you seem to think they are. Maybe you didn't watch Jacobs enough or just remember his last years in the league where he was a shell of himself. He wasn't just a "battering ram", he actually had very good speed for his size - maybe just a tad slower than Henry - and quick feet. He ran sweeps nearly as often as he would ram the ball up the middle. Jacobs averaged 4.5 yards per carry and 9.1 yards per reception in a 8 year career - and only his team's RBBC philosophy while sharing the backfield with two very good RBs in Tiki Barber and Ahmad Bradshaw (with some Danny Ware tossed in as well) kept his raw stats down. But even with that he still had two seasons  with over 1,000 rushing yards and two more with over 800 yards rushing and he had 64 total touchdowns in 8 seasons. 

Personally while I think Henry is capable of more, I don't think it's a bad comparison at all.

I don't like the Jacobs comp because I think Henry ceiling is much higher.  Jacobs is an easy comp because of his weight and height to Henry. Jacobs was a solid pro and was a lot to handle but I think Henry is a different back in that he's a freak at the 2nd level for a guy his size.  Henry is so atypical that I had to go back 35yrs for a Chuck Muncie comp, and I still think that Henry will be better than Muncie.

Jacobs transferred away from Auburn as they saw his size and wanted him to be a LB AND they had Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams in their backfield.  Henry has been the man at every level and I just think he's a  different animal.  I think Jacobs is Henry's floor - which is pretty high praise.

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, elguapo07 said:

I don't like the Jacobs comp because I think Henry ceiling is much higher.  Jacobs is an easy comp because of his weight and height to Henry. Jacobs was a solid pro and was a lot to handle but I think Henry is a different back in that he's a freak at the 2nd level for a guy his size.  Henry is so atypical that I had to go back 35yrs for a Chuck Muncie comp, and I still think that Henry will be better than Muncie.

Jacobs transferred away from Auburn as they saw his size and wanted him to be a LB AND they had Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams in their backfield.  Henry has been the man at every level and I just think he's a  different animal.  I think Jacobs is Henry's floor - which is pretty high praise.

 

 

 

The Chuck Muncie comp is a pretty good one. Muncie was 6'3'' and 230--a little bit lighter than Henry but close and in that era LBs were not as big, so relatively comparable to today.  He also runs upright and is a big target. He has good burst, but is a long strider too, with good top speed.  He is not shifty but does often make defenders miss with a single cut.  Muncie was more of a pass receiver too but while Henry wasn't asked to do that in college there have been good reports on his pass catching skill so we shall see.

As I look at Muncie run I see similarity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kto9x8rxcNg

 

 

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22 minutes ago, az_prof said:

The Chuck Muncie comp is a pretty good one. Muncie was 6'3'' and 230--a little bit lighter than Henry but close and in that era LBs were not as big, so relatively comparable to today.  He also runs upright and is a big target. He has good burst, but is a long strider too, with good top speed.  He is not shifty but does often make defenders miss with a single cut.  Muncie was more of a pass receiver too but while Henry wasn't asked to do that in college there have been good reports on his pass catching skill so we shall see.

As I look at Muncie run I see similarity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kto9x8rxcNg

 

 

Interesting to watch how high players tackled back then.

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Henry went in the 7th round in a redraft I had last Saturday.

He's looked good to me, although sometimes he seems a bit too stiff from the waist up - the whole upright thing. He might be able to get away with that due to his strength.

I'd really like to take the ride this year, but I don't know if I'm willing to use a redraft 6th rounder on him to try and make sure I get him. The whole DeMarco Murray thing is a bring me down. Him playing last night gives me pause too. I figure they can't be planning on depending heavily on the guy at the start of the season if they were willing to risk injury in the 4th preseason game.

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21 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Henry went in the 7th round in a redraft I had last Saturday.

He's looked good to me, although sometimes he seems a bit too stiff from the waist up - the whole upright thing. He might be able to get away with that due to his strength.

I'd really like to take the ride this year, but I don't know if I'm willing to use a redraft 6th rounder on him to try and make sure I get him. The whole DeMarco Murray thing is a bring me down. Him playing last night gives me pause too. I figure they can't be planning on depending heavily on the guy at the start of the season if they were willing to risk injury in the 4th preseason game.

As much as I like Henry, I don't think I would take him in the 7th in a redraft. You are basically drafting him as your RB3 there.  I do think he could be a RB1 by mid-season or end of the year depending on what happens to Murray. But I would be more comfortable with him as a RB4 in redraft.

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2 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

Nice analysis. I saw a Sport Science piece on ESPN about Henry and Zeke. Henry's 5 yard acceleration was the fastest measured of any player in the last 3 drafts; not just RBs, of any player. They had some other interesting measurables on him as well, basically comparing his size and acceleration in the open field to a wrecking ball traveling 5MPH and he broke through a series of bags with the combined weight of the Denvers D line in 1.3 seconds. Just kind of reinforced that he truly is a freakish athlete at the RB position.

You've outlined some of his negatives. He is a huge target with a high center of gravity and it will be interesting to see him facing off against LBs his same size.

One of his positives that I think is underestimated is he has a great stiff arm. I'm on board and hope he does well in the NFL. He's a fun player to watch.

His stiff arm is a weapon especially against DBs.  Somewhat of a lost art for so many backs today that Henry seems to use often with great success.

 

 

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Henry reminds me a bit of Christian Okoye as far as his size and running style. Henry is much more experienced and skilled at playing football than Okoye was however. Okoye was still learning how to play while in the NFL.

As a Vikings fan this guy and the Titan's worry me in week 1.

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6 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Henry reminds me a bit of Christian Okoye as far as his size and running style. Henry is much more experienced and skilled at playing football than Okoye was however. Okoye was still learning how to play while in the NFL.

As a Vikings fan this guy and the Titan's worry me in week 1.

I'm not really seeing the running style similarity TBH, Henry has pretty shifty feet when he searching for his hole to burst through. Do you mean because both are fairly upright? That part I see. 

But I'm glad you mentioned it because I found this fun mini-documentary. What a beast the Nigerian Nightmare was! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OO-w04DUv4

That's A BIG MAN. Henry obviously has good size but man the shoulders on Okoye are insane.

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1 minute ago, BobbyLayne said:

I'm not really seeing the running style similarity TBH, Henry has pretty shifty feet when he searching for his hole to burst through. Do you mean because both are fairly upright? That part I see. 

But I'm glad you mentioned it because I found this fun mini-documentary. What a beast the Nigerian Nightmare was! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OO-w04DUv4

That's A BIG MAN. Henry obviously has good size but man the shoulders on Okoye are insane.

Okoye was deceptively nifty at times I think. He was very raw though so that didn't always shine through until he learned how to do that more.

The comparison mostly based on size more than running style. I think Okoye was actually faster than Henry is.

It is hard to find a good comparison for Henry really. Okoye is just a guy he reminds me of. I enjoyed watching Okoye play.

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I drafted him last night (unfortunately in a redraft only). I missed him by a couple picks to backup Murray in a 2 keeper (draft on Sunday. He went in the 6th and I figured I could snag him close to the 7th/8th turn. I'll be looking for him again on my last draft. 

That said, I do agree that I'd temper the expectations a bit. I watched him against the Panthers and against the first team D he went down quick and easy. Panthers have a good D so that'll happen to anyone but he didn't look good until the backups were in against us. That's why it helps to watch the games and know who is playing  

I still like him but the comparisons to top all time RBs is a little premature.

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9 hours ago, mphtrilogy said:

eyepopping pre-season

 

Rushing
Rk Player Team Pos Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM
1 Terron Ward ATL RB 22 22.0 62 2.8 62.0 2 20 4 18.2 1 0 0
2 Kerwynn Williams ARI RB 27 13.5 115 4.3 57.5 0 18 5 18.5 0 0 0
3 Mack Brown WAS RB 39 9.8 227 5.8 56.8 1 60T 8 20.5 3 1 0
4 Derrick Henry TEN RB 34 8.5 216 6.4 54.0 3 26 15 44.1 2 0 0

9 YPC in High School, 6 in college(10 as a frosh), 6.4 in preseason

The numbers are so high. Even if you stick with the sixes and ignore the others. I'm sure I can find people touting a RB getting 5.0 ypc as being special(for a workhorse).

He looks so special.

I really love his diagonal style. I don't know how to describe it, he's always running diagonal when others would juke or make a full cut. It's like just enough so he gets out of the way and doesn't lose speed. 

Preseason was weird stupidity by NFL players. Gotta say hitting him up high and slapping at his feet was ridiculous. I'd bet $ he got some defenders cut for horrific tackling. There were jokes after one game and Mularkey even smiled and covered his mouth during  the presser like "ooh I shouldn't laugh at them."

 

Another week, he had one run that Mularkey said "that was some big @ run" and apologized right after. 

 

He is slowly switching over to Henry as the lead back. His quotes are changing slightly. It's coming. I still think by mid-season, but now maybe sooner. Players do not fascinate and excite coaches like he's done and sit on the sideline. 

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39 minutes ago, Bri said:

9 YPC in High School, 6 in college(10 as a frosh), 6.4 in preseason

The numbers are so high. Even if you stick with the sixes and ignore the others. I'm sure I can find people touting a RB getting 5.0 ypc as being special(for a workhorse).

He looks so special.

I really love his diagonal style. I don't know how to describe it, he's always running diagonal when others would juke or make a full cut. It's like just enough so he gets out of the way and doesn't lose speed. 

Preseason was weird stupidity by NFL players. Gotta say hitting him up high and slapping at his feet was ridiculous. I'd bet $ he got some defenders cut for horrific tackling. There were jokes after one game and Mularkey even smiled and covered his mouth during  the presser like "ooh I shouldn't laugh at them."

 

Another week, he had one run that Mularkey said "that was some big @ run" and apologized right after. 

 

He is slowly switching over to Henry as the lead back. His quotes are changing slightly. It's coming. I still think by mid-season, but now maybe sooner. Players do not fascinate and excite coaches like he's done and sit on the sideline. 

Murray averaged 6.3 yards per rush this preseason, Henry 6.4, Murray only 2 years removed from a monster season, not sure how you know that the coach is gonna just bench Murray for a rookie when he looks like the Murray from 2014 again.

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3 hours ago, Jake22 said:

Murray averaged 6.3 yards per rush this preseason, Henry 6.4, Murray only 2 years removed from a monster season, not sure how you know that the coach is gonna just bench Murray for a rookie when he looks like the Murray from 2014 again.

It just seems like the classic scenario is playing out with a veteran and a "hotshot" rookie

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15 minutes ago, Bri said:

It just seems like the classic scenario is playing out with a veteran and a "hotshot" rookie

I guess it could be, but it doesn't seem like Mullarkey is giving indication of that right now. Every coach in the league talks up their backup players, they have to in order to keep them motivated...we'll see how this one plays out.

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42 minutes ago, Jake22 said:

I guess it could be, but it doesn't seem like Mullarkey is giving indication of that right now. Every coach in the league talks up their backup players, they have to in order to keep them motivated...we'll see how this one plays out.

Now you're just making stuff up, and you don't even know it.

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7 hours ago, Jake22 said:

I guess it could be, but it doesn't seem like Mullarkey is giving indication of that right now. Every coach in the league talks up their backup players, they have to in order to keep them motivated...we'll see how this one plays out.

(Guessing on quotes, not exact) He went from "Murray is our franchise back!" with conviction to "I haven't decided what the split will be, how much each will play"

that was my hmmm wait a second moment

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7 hours ago, Mister CIA said:

Now you're just making stuff up, and you don't even know it.

That's not made up, I've seen plenty of coaches talk up backup players every year and then not play them much...happens all the time. Henry will play, nobody knows how much right now, unless you are friends with the coach and he told you how much he's going to play him...

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10 hours ago, Jake22 said:

Murray averaged 6.3 yards per rush this preseason, Henry 6.4, Murray only 2 years removed from a monster season, not sure how you know that the coach is gonna just bench Murray for a rookie when he looks like the Murray from 2014 again.

Chris Johnson sets me up here. CJ running for nothing, two yards, one yard, negative one, then oh wow 50 yards. This happened a zillion times in my life as a Titans fan.

In his own way, DeMarco was very similar this summer. It could be a 20 yard burst or whatever (please don't nitpick). On the other hand, Henry seems to get his yards regularly.

The Titans revamped line is two awesome talents at bookends, a very impressive UDFA guard, a center with a touch of crazy, and a well-documented super talent that doesn't come close to meeting his potential. They COULD be better. They should. We Titans fans were spoiled by the best OL coach for two decades and then got the worst ever and now a HOFer again. There absolutely is hope. 

The difference between DeMarco Murray, Cobb and Sankey is nil when he gets stuffed at the line. It could be a young Emmitt Smith, the talent is non-existent on a rushing play for zero yards where it seems like 11 guys are gang tackling the RB at the LOS.

Let me go back to Andrews and even Terrance West last year. The Titans prized draft picks had nowhere to run so West was an instant contributor(for like two weeks but still the guy just showed up and was better) and Andrews became the starter. His fight to his game. His toughness and determination on those awful blocking plays...that was everything.

When people talk or write about the Titans, lately I'm like "You're talking about a good team though. They were the worst in football last year." I could give you a dozen reasons, but few are as glaring as their line play as the reason for them being the worst. 

As I said earlier in this thread- I strongly think Henry is the back to own against good defenses. Murray can have his day when their line can block their opponent "like a real football team" but until that happens with regularity, I still gotta plan for many bad Sundays.

The Titans were patient (and it was the end of a good run for the team) with old CJ and then with Sankey...until they weren't and went with Andrews. Many different players and coaches later, it is still the same bad team problem of no holes for the RB.

Let me take a snip of the carries of Murray versus the Chargers (a fellow bad team, 27th against the rush in 2015)

Second possession-Rush for 2 yards sandwiched between a couple passes for an eventual FG

Next possession-Rush for 1 yard, rush for 3 yards, short pass PUNT

next possession- rush for 1 yard

Right now, does Henry come in? See this? The one and two yards is not enough.

Mularkey DID have patience or faith and the next carry was a 71 yard burst

This is what I'm talking about. Good teams don't have this problem, this is bad team football right here. 

One more low yardage carry and Murray's lack of success would have probably led to a second punt. two punts and a FG...ugh.

For me, my guess based on experience, he was one carry away from being pulled for Henry. How many 1 and 2 yarders and punts does it take to make Mularkey think "put the big guy in that'll fight for yardage?"

I understand Murray fans will say he's a veteran Mularkey will stick with him and I'm saying Henry will go in. I get that. It's just there are way more crucial points where Henry could go in then if this were a good team. This scenario will play out over and over and over. Murray for 1, Murray for 2, Murray for 1, does coach put the big guy in now? I think it's inevitable that at some point (in this fictitious predictive scenario) Mularkey says Yes and puts the big guy in.

When it happens, If so, does he go back to putting the "1,2,1,2, big gain" guy in?

See I don't think so.

 think the table is set for that too with McCluster's release. Murray is an excellent receiver and has the open field ability. While Henry primarily runs with a fullback, Murray has almost exclusively run out of the single back set. It seems very comfortable to go with Murray on 3rd down.

The other thing is the Titans went through a significant change. Their awesome blocking TE retired. In 2014 and 2015, their primary set was a 2 and 3 TE set. They planned that for this year and then his retirement was sudden. A week or two ago? They only kept 3 TEs. Prior years they kept four and had one on the PS who was often promoted and demoted on Sundays. (I hated the 3 TE offense and it wrecked WR stats and big play potential) For a 3 TE offense, yeah maybe you need 5 TEs active or four or whatever. One gets winded...it makes sense, fine. Again, they only kept three. Now I'm thrilled that they probably can't even run the 3 TE offense with regularity anymore, of course, but this recent change is totally in Henry's favor and not Murray's. Murray was the 3TE back, Henry ran with the FB  in a classic pro set.

Well so there's my logic Jake22. It's guesses. It's not not frivolous but it is just guesses

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17 minutes ago, Bri said:

Chris Johnson sets me up here. CJ running for nothing, two yards, one yard, negative one, then oh wow 50 yards. This happened a zillion times in my life as a Titans fan.

In his own way, DeMarco was very similar this summer. It could be a 20 yard burst or whatever (please don't nitpick). On the other hand, Henry seems to get his yards regularly.

The Titans revamped line is two awesome talents at bookends, a very impressive UDFA guard, a center with a touch of crazy, and a well-documented super talent that doesn't come close to meeting his potential. They COULD be better. They should. We Titans fans were spoiled by the best OL coach for two decades and then got the worst ever and now a HOFer again. There absolutely is hope. 

The difference between DeMarco Murray, Cobb and Sankey is nil when he gets stuffed at the line. It could be a young Emmitt Smith, the talent is non-existent on a rushing play for zero yards where it seems like 11 guys are gang tackling the RB at the LOS.

Let me go back to Andrews and even Terrance West last year. The Titans prized draft picks had nowhere to run so West was an instant contributor(for like two weeks but still the guy just showed up and was better) and Andrews became the starter. His fight to his game. His toughness and determination on those awful blocking plays...that was everything.

When people talk or write about the Titans, lately I'm like "You're talking about a good team though. They were the worst in football last year." I could give you a dozen reasons, but few are as glaring as their line play as the reason for them being the worst. 

As I said earlier in this thread- I strongly think Henry is the back to own against good defenses. Murray can have his day when their line can block their opponent "like a real football team" but until that happens with regularity, I still gotta plan for many bad Sundays.

The Titans were patient (and it was the end of a good run for the team) with old CJ and then with Sankey...until they weren't and went with Andrews. Many different players and coaches later, it is still the same bad team problem of no holes for the RB.

Let me take a snip of the carries of Murray versus the Chargers (a fellow bad team, 27th against the rush in 2015)

Second possession-Rush for 2 yards sandwiched between a couple passes for an eventual FG

Next possession-Rush for 1 yard, rush for 3 yards, short pass PUNT

next possession- rush for 1 yard

Right now, does Henry come in? See this? The one and two yards is not enough.

Mularkey DID have patience or faith and the next carry was a 71 yard burst

This is what I'm talking about. Good teams don't have this problem, this is bad team football right here. 

One more low yardage carry and Murray's lack of success would have probably led to a second punt. two punts and a FG...ugh.

For me, my guess based on experience, he was one carry away from being pulled for Henry. How many 1 and 2 yarders and punts does it take to make Mularkey think "put the big guy in that'll fight for yardage?"

I understand Murray fans will say he's a veteran Mularkey will stick with him and I'm saying Henry will go in. I get that. It's just there are way more crucial points where Henry could go in then if this were a good team. This scenario will play out over and over and over. Murray for 1, Murray for 2, Murray for 1, does coach put the big guy in now? I think it's inevitable that at some point (in this fictitious predictive scenario) Mularkey says Yes and puts the big guy in.

When it happens, If so, does he go back to putting the "1,2,1,2, big gain" guy in?

See I don't think so.

 think the table is set for that too with McCluster's release. Murray is an excellent receiver and has the open field ability. While Henry primarily runs with a fullback, Murray has almost exclusively run out of the single back set. It seems very comfortable to go with Murray on 3rd down.

The other thing is the Titans went through a significant change. Their awesome blocking TE retired. In 2014 and 2015, their primary set was a 2 and 3 TE set. They planned that for this year and then his retirement was sudden. A week or two ago? They only kept 3 TEs. Prior years they kept four and had one on the PS who was often promoted and demoted on Sundays. (I hated the 3 TE offense and it wrecked WR stats and big play potential) For a 3 TE offense, yeah maybe you need 5 TEs active or four or whatever. One gets winded...it makes sense, fine. Again, they only kept three. Now I'm thrilled that they probably can't even run the 3 TE offense with regularity anymore, of course, but this recent change is totally in Henry's favor and not Murray's. Murray was the 3TE back, Henry ran with the FB  in a classic pro set.

Well so there's my logic Jake22. It's guesses. It's not not frivolous but it is just guesses

Good points, but I saw runs from Henry this preseason that went nowhere also...what we do know is they are two different styles of runners and will be used that way according to game flow. I just think Murray is going to take the start and run with it, we'll see if he can keep it.

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There's some good talk in here, but I'm sure you guys will be happy that I'm leaving this thread, lol. I've got others players to look at before next week. I will say that Henry has looked great, but I've been drafting S.Ware a few rounds later ( even before the J.Charles news came out) , I just see better value there and more question about how Charles will be used as opposed to how Murray is going to be used. Also took Zeke in one draft and feeling good about that even with Romo being gone, Zeke looked like a beast in his first action last week. I just think Murray is poised for a big bounce back year with this offensive scheme. Just my opinion, good luck guys Henry could pay off big for all of you that nabbed him in drafts.

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Not enough hype for this kid.

I think it it's coming from a place where groupthink says he was overrated.  Lot of sharks talked about how they liked Dixon better, no one was standing on the table for Henry.

He looked better than Murray this preseason. He did. And he played with the 1's, if you say he didn't, you are talking out your ###.

He and the Titans will be a good rest of the preseason means nothing theory, because he and they have looked good.

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The Titans did sign Jace Amaro.

It was nice to have this great find from Canada that signed as UDFA and got after the QB very well in preseason, but Mularkey (clearly) felt that another TE was more important.

My point of them not having the TEs to run a 3 TE offense is gone now in that they do actually have the bodies to do it. It is still not a good idea and Jace Amaro couldn't be further from Craig Stevens' quality blocking.

It is still that the single back sets stink and the FB is highly effective. Apparently, it's going to take some time for that to transpire instead of being immediate.

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Back to my 3 TE stuff. Mularkey sort of made it official and calls his base offense "two back" switching from "two tight" as per PK

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0564584874904657145-4

(Above pertains to Jalston Fowler)

We haven't rehashed the two RB set and I don't think it needs to....just want to say Henry blocked for Murray a few times and caught passes out of the FB a couple times too, so it's in there.

This is VERY good news for Kendall Wright

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Pretty excited to snag him in my keeper league draft the other night, (we keep 2 Vets and 1 Rookie each year) got offered a trade for him instantly when I made the pick and then the guy who had drafted Murray spent the next 10 minutes telling me all the reasons why he thinks Henry won't be a good NFL RB.

Which of course just made me that much more excited to have him.

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