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RB Derrick Henry, BAL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
The better a RB is, the more carries he gets (over time). I wouldn't start worrying about this until he's 28 or so, and if you're worrying about it at that time then he's been a successful dynasty rookie draft pick and it's a conversation worth having at that time.
elguapo07
Footballguy
Always listen to your gut. The site I used chopped him down to 8-1 while Vegas had him at about 14-1 at the time so I didn't put anything down as I felt they squeezed the value out.
shader
Footballguy
One thing to remember when you are forming opinions this offseason: this isn't the type of dominant Oline that Bama has had in the past.
Ingram and Trent ran behind truly special lines.
Don't get me wrong, the line is solid, but it's not any different than any of the other good teams out there IMO. Not a team strength.
Ingram and Trent ran behind truly special lines.
Don't get me wrong, the line is solid, but it's not any different than any of the other good teams out there IMO. Not a team strength.
FUBAR
Footballguy
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Yeah, he'll fall right into their laps if things stay as they are. I just don't think Elliot is the only first round worthy RB and the offseason workouts and film review will bump some up to round one
That is an interesting take. Honestly, I thought the opposite. Nice 50 yard TD run, but that was one of those 3rd and 1 type plays where you crowd the line and call the right play where the D is not covering and bam, long TD. I won't take away the long run, but the other carries were 108 yards on 34 carries. After that run, I wasn't impressed with him. Yes, big guy, but in the NFL, everyone is bigger. Maybe I am wrong, but he just seemed like a big guy who maybe does OK in short yardage. 35 carries and you'd expect a big guy like that to wear down the defense. I remember seeing a few times where #25 (195 pound CB) was able to get him down without a lot of fuss.
I've watched Elliott a few times and Henry mainly on Monday night and IMHO, the NFL talent isn't close. I see Elliott as a legit NFL RB and Henry as a big guy. Maybe in the right spot with a great QB, but I don't see him being a good NFL RB.
shader
Footballguy
I'm convinced that in the right system, Henry could put up massive numbers. But if he's in the wrong system, he could fail spectacularly.
Sometimes we need combine numbers to confirm our suspicions. I'll be looking at his acceleration numbers. How quickly can he hit the hole? Ingram never ran a great 40 time, but his ten yard split was great, if I remember correctly.
Henry is far outside the norm, in terms of body type. When given the chance to produce, he produces. He does attack the LOS, he's a great short yardage runner, and when he can get that big frame moving downfield, he's got surprising speed.
But when teams stack the box, is he agile enough to make things happen? When the holes are smaller, can he attack the holes quick enough? Good questions that I don't have answers for yet.
Sometimes we need combine numbers to confirm our suspicions. I'll be looking at his acceleration numbers. How quickly can he hit the hole? Ingram never ran a great 40 time, but his ten yard split was great, if I remember correctly.
Henry is far outside the norm, in terms of body type. When given the chance to produce, he produces. He does attack the LOS, he's a great short yardage runner, and when he can get that big frame moving downfield, he's got surprising speed.
But when teams stack the box, is he agile enough to make things happen? When the holes are smaller, can he attack the holes quick enough? Good questions that I don't have answers for yet.
The last part is what concers me. Anyone in the right situation should produce, but he went down way too easily against DBs and didn't really move the pile like I thought he would. Not saying he's bad or won't be good, but I never saw anything like I did with Elliott. As we've seen its hard to judge Arabs out of Alabama because there's so much talent around them.
The Captain
Footballguy
LOL
Anywho, I'm shaky on Henry as a prospect. Even if he proves he can run solidly in the NFL, he's really not good in the passing game which limits his potential upside anyways. So at most he's a 2 down back and in on obvious rushing situations where teams can stack the box and put more bodies in his way. Which then brings us to his lateral agility and ability to accelerate from stop to start and from what I've seen, isn't a plus for him.
With the way the NFL is changing at the RB position more and more teams are looking for RBs that open up the playbook and give them more options if you will. Power RBs still have a place but not in the traditional way they used to. Having a RB that doesn't affect the passing game really limits an offense IMO so we will see how high he will get drafted, but my feeling is he won't be drafted in the 1st round.
Faust
MVP
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
That auto correct had me cracking up 
As for Henry I've watched a few games today. I like the kid's size and he seems to have good open field speed. I saw some wiggle once he hit the second level which I liked as well.
Now, I'm no scout....but I was unimpressed with a few things as well that had me thinking he'd be overvalued in the NFL:
- I did not see him provide much quality pass pro. I did see him flat out whiff on a couple blocks
- As a runner though I saw some moves in the open field I did not see a guy who can create at the LOS. He strikes me a dude who gets what is blocked and doesn't seem to have the vision or burst to hit the small-window creases
- Passing game?
- One thing that kind of stands out to me I think of in comparing him to Eddie Lacy. Lacy (who admittedly has not had a good 2015) has some really special feet for a guy his size. His balance and hops allow him to make up for a lack in fast-twitch athleticism and create some things at the LOS despite his lack of high end burst and speed. I do NOT see this same quality in Henry. If Henry had Lacy's feet I think we'd be talking about him as a real competition to Elliott as #1 overall.
As such I do not see myself drafting Henry next year. I think he will go in Rd 1 of rookie drafts and I think that's vastly overpaying
Just my two cents
As for Henry I've watched a few games today. I like the kid's size and he seems to have good open field speed. I saw some wiggle once he hit the second level which I liked as well.
Now, I'm no scout....but I was unimpressed with a few things as well that had me thinking he'd be overvalued in the NFL:
- I did not see him provide much quality pass pro. I did see him flat out whiff on a couple blocks
- As a runner though I saw some moves in the open field I did not see a guy who can create at the LOS. He strikes me a dude who gets what is blocked and doesn't seem to have the vision or burst to hit the small-window creases
- Passing game?
- One thing that kind of stands out to me I think of in comparing him to Eddie Lacy. Lacy (who admittedly has not had a good 2015) has some really special feet for a guy his size. His balance and hops allow him to make up for a lack in fast-twitch athleticism and create some things at the LOS despite his lack of high end burst and speed. I do NOT see this same quality in Henry. If Henry had Lacy's feet I think we'd be talking about him as a real competition to Elliott as #1 overall.
As such I do not see myself drafting Henry next year. I think he will go in Rd 1 of rookie drafts and I think that's vastly overpaying
Just my two cents
tex
Footballguy
Henry is big, fast in a straight line, and as long as he has a hole, he is fine. The biggest negative I see with Henry is his lack of lateral movement. He can't make defenders miss and like someone else said, he was brought down pretty easily behind the LOS in Monday's game by a CB. I see a poor man's Eddie George, but nowhere near Eddie's talent.
matttyl
Footballguy
I've had that exact auto correct hit me a few times. When you try to hit the "shift" key on the left and hit the A before the R, and then do it again for the B - that's what happens.
This is what I find fascinating about this time of year til may or so.
so many special college players are nitpicked 'to death.' The weight given to all of that nitpicking is so key.
We all know Priest wasn't good enough and Mandarich was a once in a lifetime T...and a zillion players in between that have been reviewed incorrectly.
I've yet to figure out whether someone is correct or incorrect before the player plays in the NFL, so I'm not in here judging I just find it fascinating.
I only discard those that claim someone is terrible that ran, threw, or caught for a zillion yards in college. That's about the only thing I can gauge is well the player is certainly not terrible if he did xyz.
so many special college players are nitpicked 'to death.' The weight given to all of that nitpicking is so key.
We all know Priest wasn't good enough and Mandarich was a once in a lifetime T...and a zillion players in between that have been reviewed incorrectly.
I've yet to figure out whether someone is correct or incorrect before the player plays in the NFL, so I'm not in here judging I just find it fascinating.
I only discard those that claim someone is terrible that ran, threw, or caught for a zillion yards in college. That's about the only thing I can gauge is well the player is certainly not terrible if he did xyz.
This doesn't mean anything
There's a giant list RBs that have been taken down easily at times behind the LOS. Even Barry who'd run up n down the field til he found a hole. If you got to him before he got going, he went down easy.
Roger Craig and Dickerson's legs couldn't even start churning yet.
They're surprised and their motor isn't going, so they go down easily.
There's nothing wrong with a RB needing a second and a step or two to spring into action.
Bavaro? I'm not sure there's ever been a player that didn't go down easily when he was completely surprised by a hit
People assume because he is 6'3 and 240 lbs. that he is some kind of power back, except if you actually watch him play he doesn't play with a lot of "power" for his size. He plays a lot smaller than his size would indicate and is brought down on contact relatively easily. He is much more of a finesse back with not a lot of lateral agility, that's not a good combination in my opinion.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Haven't really watched much college ball this year so YouTube highlights are what I have to base my impressions on.
My gut reaction is he's not fast or shifty enough for how tall he is.
I get a Toby Gerhart vibe from him (I know there's a height difference).
My gut reaction is he's not fast or shifty enough for how tall he is.
I get a Toby Gerhart vibe from him (I know there's a height difference).
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trader jake
Footballguy
Based on the early sentiments in this thread, it appears I'll be drafting Derrick Henry a lot this year.
He's a beast at the goal line, can absorb punishment, has break away speed, and in limited use showed he has the hands to be a pass catcher in offenses that utilize their RB's/Arabs that way. He's not Todd Gurley as a prospect entering the NFL but few are.
He's a beast at the goal line, can absorb punishment, has break away speed, and in limited use showed he has the hands to be a pass catcher in offenses that utilize their RB's/Arabs that way. He's not Todd Gurley as a prospect entering the NFL but few are.
bud29
Footballguy
Trent had issues even when he DID get a hole.
Right now I'd easily take Elliott, Treadwell, Doctson, and Coleman before Henry. Perhaps Michael Thomas as well. I'd put him in the Will Fuller tier - flawed, but brings something to the table.
beef
Footballguy
You're absolutely right. Trent proved to have ZERO vision. I think he can claim on his 1040 that he's legally blind now, but every wannabe scout at the time raved about how good his vision was. In reality he didn't need it because his oline was so good.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Guys, if Karlos Williams can come into the NFL and gain some nice dynasty value, Henry will be fine. Williams was supposed to be an upright, stiff runner with no moves (literally, his college teammates would joke about how he didn't run like a RB after his transition, no moves in the open field) and no instincts for the position. He was fast and strong and that's about it, really.
Or maybe I'm wrong and he just needed to develop more, meaning there's no comparison to a guy with as much experience at the position as Henry.
Or maybe I'm wrong and he just needed to develop more, meaning there's no comparison to a guy with as much experience at the position as Henry.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
Not a huge fan of his tape so far. Not impressed with him in the National Championship either.
trader jake
Footballguy
This was my initial thought as well. Now I'm thinking he'd be a much better fit in a zone running scheme where he can make one cut, then get big in traffic and put that weight to use and show that speed when holes open up. ??
Borden
Footballguy
I'm just going to put my notes here as I watch his games.
Pros:
- Follows and sets up blockers well.
- Decent balance.
- Has power.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Decent pass pro.
- Good enough as a pass catcher.
Con:
- Needs to do a better job of getting two hands on the ball before/during contact.
- Goes back to the well with moves too much.
- Needs to get lower and behind pads more when trying to run over tacklers.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Doesn't always pick up the correct pass rusher. Slips out for the pass too soon at times.
- Will run out of steam in drives. *Likely won't be an issue in the NFL since they won't feed him that much.
- Bounces backwards off of tackles a little too much.
Where does he get drafted?
Carolina at #63 (end of the second round)
- I don't think that Henry is good enough that he can change the direction of a team, he will likely be a luxury pick. Because of this the teams that need a RB need other positions as well and Henry won't go in the first. Potential second teams that kind of make sense but I see them passing; Dallas, NYG, Chicago.
For Carolina, Stewart will be 29 next year and has a long list of injuries. Fozzy and CA-P did okay but I don't think either are the Stewart replacement.
Pros:
- Follows and sets up blockers well.
- Decent balance.
- Has power.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Decent pass pro.
- Good enough as a pass catcher.
Con:
- Needs to do a better job of getting two hands on the ball before/during contact.
- Goes back to the well with moves too much.
- Needs to get lower and behind pads more when trying to run over tacklers.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Doesn't always pick up the correct pass rusher. Slips out for the pass too soon at times.
- Will run out of steam in drives. *Likely won't be an issue in the NFL since they won't feed him that much.
- Bounces backwards off of tackles a little too much.
Where does he get drafted?
Carolina at #63 (end of the second round)
- I don't think that Henry is good enough that he can change the direction of a team, he will likely be a luxury pick. Because of this the teams that need a RB need other positions as well and Henry won't go in the first. Potential second teams that kind of make sense but I see them passing; Dallas, NYG, Chicago.
For Carolina, Stewart will be 29 next year and has a long list of injuries. Fozzy and CA-P did okay but I don't think either are the Stewart replacement.
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