wodahSShadow
Footballguy
PFT asked this question today ( http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/20/which-packers-all-time-great-quarterback-would-you-want-in-his-prime/). What say you?
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Best Packers QB of All Time? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wodahSShadow
- Start date
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Its all about winning championships. Bart Starr
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I think once his career is done it'll be Rodgers, winning multiple championships makes you immortal in the NFL and hes got plenty of time to get his 2nd.
wodahSShadow
Footballguy
Ditkaless- so Dilfer is better then Marino?
Shutout
Footballguy
I find myself considering myself to be anti-Favre most days, probably because he wore me out those last few years with all the drama.
However, with that being said, I think he was the best. Can't choose Starr because it was an era that didn't rely on passing like it does now and it was quite frankly a league of haves and have nots back then. I may not be the best basketball player but when my only competition was my kid sisters, I always won.
Rodgers is terrific, of course. But he seems to me to be a great player in a great groove of a system. If anything, I discount Rodgers because it really seems this core team should win more.
Favre just got it done. Passed all the eye ball tests. Competitor. Balled. Won...a lot! Just a gut feeling on it but he just seemed like a gamer up for the challenge anytime, no matter the odds. Not that the other guys weren't, but I think he's the one and like I said, I'm typically anti-Favre so it means more to me to choose him.
However, with that being said, I think he was the best. Can't choose Starr because it was an era that didn't rely on passing like it does now and it was quite frankly a league of haves and have nots back then. I may not be the best basketball player but when my only competition was my kid sisters, I always won.
Rodgers is terrific, of course. But he seems to me to be a great player in a great groove of a system. If anything, I discount Rodgers because it really seems this core team should win more.
Favre just got it done. Passed all the eye ball tests. Competitor. Balled. Won...a lot! Just a gut feeling on it but he just seemed like a gamer up for the challenge anytime, no matter the odds. Not that the other guys weren't, but I think he's the one and like I said, I'm typically anti-Favre so it means more to me to choose him.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Did Dilfer and Marino play for the same organization as is implicit in this question? Did Dilfer win four more than Marino as is also implicit in this question? Have you always been like you are, or did you just save it for me this one time? Have a nice day.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Differ won 5 championships and lead one of the most dominant dynasties in NFL history?
Who'd a thunk it? I must have been sleeping that decade.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Favre. He won the big one. He rewrote the record books. The streak. And he did it when you could still mug receivers. Three straight map awards.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
He also did it by making average receivers excellent. A-Rod seems to have a similar knack, but he has been surrounded by more talented WRs than Favre. I just keep thinking of Andre Rison and Don Beebe - both good players, don't get me wrong - coming in as aging veterans and looking all-world with Favre. Hell, he even made Bill Schroeder look serviceable, and that dude wouldn't run a route back to the ball to save his freaking life.Rodgers could surpass Favre by winning another title AND playing at an elite level another 5-6 years. Hope he can do it.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Favre won the MVP three years in a row.Rodgers is, without a doubt, the best QB in the league right now. Zero debate.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
The only quarterback in NFL history to lead a team to five championships (1961–62, 1965–67) including Super Bowls I and II.
Most Valuable Player in Super Bowls I and II.
Four Pro Bowl Selections.
League MVP in 1966.
His passer rating in playoff games remained the highest in the league generations beyond when he played, and that through changes that lead to leaps in magnitude in passer rating over those decades. Literally, his stats from a brutal era for Q.B.'s, incredibly hampered by the rules of his time, still are nearly unattainable by todays best though Aaron Rodgers may get there. Clearly Brady and Manning will never match Starr's playoff s passer rating. How many guys have numbers that transcend generations and changes in the game. Favre's records fell within years of his retirement.
Starr's accuracy was legendary. When he retired he had the league record for completion % and had a record for passes attempted without interceptions that stood for 40 years.
He was widely acknowledged as among the best play callers ever at the position.
He never texted **** picks to Jen Sterger and never, while playing for the Vikings wished the Bears good luck in beating the Packers.
Most Valuable Player in Super Bowls I and II.
Four Pro Bowl Selections.
League MVP in 1966.
His passer rating in playoff games remained the highest in the league generations beyond when he played, and that through changes that lead to leaps in magnitude in passer rating over those decades. Literally, his stats from a brutal era for Q.B.'s, incredibly hampered by the rules of his time, still are nearly unattainable by todays best though Aaron Rodgers may get there. Clearly Brady and Manning will never match Starr's playoff s passer rating. How many guys have numbers that transcend generations and changes in the game. Favre's records fell within years of his retirement.
Starr's accuracy was legendary. When he retired he had the league record for completion % and had a record for passes attempted without interceptions that stood for 40 years.
He was widely acknowledged as among the best play callers ever at the position.
He never texted **** picks to Jen Sterger and never, while playing for the Vikings wished the Bears good luck in beating the Packers.
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cr8f
Footballguy
Deserves a choice
Arnie Herber, 1930-40 – Won three NFL passing titles as a halfback in the Notre Dame box. His forte was throwing deep. One of the first 30 players inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Unofficially passed for more than 6,400 yards in the 1930s, nearly 3,000 more than anyone else.
Arnie Herber, 1930-40 – Won three NFL passing titles as a halfback in the Notre Dame box. His forte was throwing deep. One of the first 30 players inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Unofficially passed for more than 6,400 yards in the 1930s, nearly 3,000 more than anyone else.
Neither did he, he named Marino as the best in one interview.
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
I don't know, Cutler is pretty amazing at hitting open Packers. Is he in the running?
Tau837
Footballguy
Starr's championships occurred in the period 1961-1967. This stretch for Starr is the reason that Starr supporters would choose him, but IMO it's apples and oranges. The league had 14-16 teams in that period, and there was no free agency. His peak years that cemented his HOF legacy occurred on stacked teams. He didn't have to carry the Packers offense in the same way Favre did (or Rodgers does now).
Favre earned 3 MVPs, 3 1st team All Pro selections, and 3 2nd team All Pro selections. Starr earned 1 MVP, 2 Super Bowl MVPs, 1 1st team All Pro selection, and 2 2nd team All Pro selections. Especially considering Starr had less competition for the regular season awards, this is an edge to Favre.
Favre has the streak and the all time records. He had 45 game winning drives and 30 4th quarter comebacks, compared to 18 and 19, respectively, for Starr. IMO Favre's body of work is better than Starr's.
IMO it's a pretty easy call for Favre over Starr. Rodgers may one day surpass Favre, but not for several years, if ever.
Rodgers would be my choice in the poll, but this is just silly. Who was keeping him out of the mythical top 3 QB's from '95-'97?
FUBAR
Footballguy
Yeah, he was top 3 those years. But I didn't view him with the awe I did Elway or Young. Again, I was a Lions fan so biased but still respect his game.
and there absolutely is an argument as to whether Rodgers is the best right now. If forced, I'd say he is, but good arguments can be made for Brady or others.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
The guy through for over 8000 against the Lions
. He would be 10th on the Lions all time list with just what he did vs. the Lions.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Ok.The guy through for over 8000 against the Lions
nobody accuses the Lions of a long history of successful QBs.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Are we forgetting that Favre had Sterling Sharpe (who was All-World before his injury)? And Robert Brooks and Antonio Freeman were pretty great, too, before injuries and big contracts, respectively, lessened their effectiveness. Don't get me wrong, Favre was awesome, but let's not act like he was always playing with scrubs. And he often had really good TEs.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Keith Jackson too.
Tau837
Footballguy
You are far off base here.
Sharpe was great, but Favre played with him for 3 seasons and 45 starts. Favre started 298 games overall.
Robert Brooks and Antonio Freeman were not great. Favre made them, just as he made Schroeder, Driver, and other WRs.
He did not often have really good TEs. He played more than 25 games with these TEs: Bubba Franks, Mark Chmura, Jeff Thomason, David Martin, Tyrone Davis, Ed West, Donald Lee, and Jackie Harris. Which of those guys were "really good" independent of Favre? Answer: none.
Tau837
Footballguy
cr8f
Footballguy
Many people thought Sharpe retiring allowed Brett to develop new weapons, relying too much on one player. Sharpe was one of the best WR's when he played, very strong with great hands, could have easily been in then Hall had he stayed healthy. Irvin, Rice and Sharpe were considered top 3.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Heck Shannon Sharpe said during his HOF induction that he wasn't even the best football player in his own family.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I understand your argument. It has a counterpoint. You credit Favre for records and production. Those records are the result of several rule changes over the years enabling offense, of expanded schedules, of better conditions in indoor stadiums, and of better medical procedures.
I do readily agree that Favre is a much better passer than was Starr, but Quarterback, well that is more than a passer or a record book inflated by era, Quarterbacks know when not to pass, they are leaders. 4th and 26 never happens under Starr because he would have convinced his coach to go for the one foot needed to keep the proceeding drive alive and would have run out the clock after getting the first down himself. Starr does not throw that Super Bowl pick to Tyrone "Chicken" Braxton that got the Broncos rolling. Starr puts some air under the ball the Giants picked off to end 2007, instead of trying to throw through the defender as did Favre. Hell, watch the play, Driver was open, behind the defender. All that was needed was some touch and some judgment.
I loved Favre as much as any Packer fan. The problem was he had a billion dollar arm and a 2 cent head.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
He wasn't. Sterling was elite. That much is true. However, as already stated they didn't play together long. Brooks and Freeman were nothing special. Definitely a step down from the WRs Rogers has had.
Don't get me wrong, I think both QBs are all time greats, but let's not hype Favre's supporting cast as anything but fairly average (aside from Sharpe).
Get the hell out of here with this.
Let's queue up the evidence of any WR Rodgers has worked with who's gone on to anything but mediocrity without him. Who's the best? Greg Jennings and the 700/5's he put up in his athletic prime once he moved on?
Right now, there's a whole bunch of Robert Brooks/Antonio Freeman/Jordy Nelson/Randall Cobb types who we know excel with their respective HOF QB's, and not much else to tip the scales either guy's direction.
The only guy there seems to be any kind of consensus on, all-world-talent-wise, played with Favre. Jordy was a developmental nothing for years until Rodgers decided to yank him up by his bootstraps and make him an alpha dog. Big time talents don't languish behind Donald Driver and Greg Jennings until they're 27.
Tau837
Footballguy
I suppose we can agree to disagree here, but IMO it is not a valid argument to pick out a few of Favre's notable failures and state an assumption that Starr would have succeeded in each of those cases, for two reasons:
1. You seem to argue from the standpoint that Starr never made any mistakes and never failed. That is untrue.
2. Your argument here ignores any correlation of Starr's higher success rate to his stronger supporting cast, and thus we are again talking apples and oranges here.
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DropKick
Footballguy
Just caught the tail end of Starr's career but that was such a different era. I think the last few years of Favre's career might lessen people's opinion of him but he was amazing. Yes, he was a gun-slinger but he made the game fun and is my choice.
Rodgers seems more cerebral but is excellent too. In time, he could overtake Favre...
Rodgers seems more cerebral but is excellent too. In time, he could overtake Favre...
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Starr was Alex Smith before Alex Smith. In an era of downfield, vertical-oriented game and power running, he threw the huge majority of his completions to Max McGee and the two HOF backfield mates. So yeah, of course he had a great completion percentage. Not because he's regarded as one of the most accurate passers of all time. Because he took zero risks.
This was just good QB'ing, because if you take risks when you're surrounded by HOF'ers in a league where no other team can sniff that talent level, you'd be an idiot. But he's a lot more Russell Wilson than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady: a game-managing opportunist whose accolades came primarily on the backs of the more talented teammates who surrounded him.
This was just good QB'ing, because if you take risks when you're surrounded by HOF'ers in a league where no other team can sniff that talent level, you'd be an idiot. But he's a lot more Russell Wilson than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady: a game-managing opportunist whose accolades came primarily on the backs of the more talented teammates who surrounded him.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I must have missed the part when I said Jordy Nelson was a "big time talent." Forgive me for my error.
Get the hell out of here with this.
Let's queue up the evidence of any WR Rodgers has worked with who's gone on to anything but mediocrity without him. Who's the best? Greg Jennings and the 700/5's he put up in his athletic prime once he moved on?
Right now, there's a whole bunch of Robert Brooks/Antonio Freeman/Jordy Nelson/Randall Cobb types who we know excel with their respective HOF QB's, and not much else to tip the scales either guy's direction.
The only guy there seems to be any kind of consensus on, all-world-talent-wise, played with Favre. Jordy was a developmental nothing for years until Rodgers decided to yank him up by his bootstraps and make him an alpha dog. Big time talents don't languish behind Donald Driver and Greg Jennings until they're 27.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
If you are going to ding Favre for the 4th and 26, how do you not ding Rodgers for his most recent loss to the Hawks? I mean, his #### the bed plenty in that game.
Tau837
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I also had great love and frustration with Lynn Dickey. He could make that offense go like crazy, and then frustrate with the big mistake. Still, I loved him. He was his day's Tony Romo, you know, Favre with lesser arm talent and lesser accomplishments, but still an above average Q.B. who flirted with greatness for a time. Hell, Lynn Dickey would be among the best Q.B.'s in the history of some franchises.
As for Favre, after years in the wilderness it was great to see the franchise relevant again. If I never again have to suffer Jerry Tagge, Randy Wright, or an aging John Hadl life will be good.
As for Favre, after years in the wilderness it was great to see the franchise relevant again. If I never again have to suffer Jerry Tagge, Randy Wright, or an aging John Hadl life will be good.
sho nuff
Footballguy
You must not have been watching much. He was easily the beat for many of those years. And top 5 almost every year he played.
Starr > Rodgers > Favre
I'm a Packers faithful but championships are what count. By the end of their careers I think Rodgers will leapfrog Starr, another super bowl will do it. Starr gets a slight discount because there were quite a bit fewer teams back then.
The whole Rodgers/Favre thing is kind of a joke. In terms of wins added Rodgers is a mile ahead after both starting 7 years of their career... higher TDs, 60(!) less interceptions, and basically carried the team for multiple years (the year they went 15-1, for example, no defense whatsoever). Favre almost always had a supporting cast because the team was built more through free agency in the Holmgren era.
Favre is entertaining as hell but there is no way I would take an "in-their-prime" Favre over Rodgers ... Rodgers is Favre without the mistakes and with more mobility. Case closed.
I'm a Packers faithful but championships are what count. By the end of their careers I think Rodgers will leapfrog Starr, another super bowl will do it. Starr gets a slight discount because there were quite a bit fewer teams back then.
The whole Rodgers/Favre thing is kind of a joke. In terms of wins added Rodgers is a mile ahead after both starting 7 years of their career... higher TDs, 60(!) less interceptions, and basically carried the team for multiple years (the year they went 15-1, for example, no defense whatsoever). Favre almost always had a supporting cast because the team was built more through free agency in the Holmgren era.
Favre is entertaining as hell but there is no way I would take an "in-their-prime" Favre over Rodgers ... Rodgers is Favre without the mistakes and with more mobility. Case closed.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I'm sorry, but I do not agree about Freeman. He was awesome before he got paid and stopped working hard.Just Win Baby said:
Brooks is harder to say, because, IIRC, he only had the one great season, but the eyeball test told me that he was great, and I believe he put up ridiculous numbers that year. And then he got hurt and was never the same.
I am not saying Freeman or Brooks were all-timers or HoFers or anything like that, but for short time spans, they were great. Yes, Favre made them better, but they were not scrubs.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Just happy all 3 played for the Packers.
Too young to have seen Starr play...but the guy was very good...and people pointing to how many HOFers he had around him...at that point in time, teams that won were going to be recognized like that with HOF accolades. You just can't win that many times and not expect the players to get a ton of praise IMO.
Would they all have been recognized in that way without Starr helping them to titles..or would he be as good without others helping him to titles. Very tough question to answer...but they all played parts and Starr was a huge piece of that.
Rodgers vs. Favre.
Right now...its still Favre. The longevity and bringing this franchise back from the trash heap....MVPs...records...and the excitement are all a part of it.
Rodgers may pass him...he has the talent and arm and all to do so.
Both had weapons around them at times. Favre had better Olines for much of his career...and a better D. Rodgers has had probably had better WRs (as far as combined talent). Both also helped make those weapons look better at times. Good QBS do that.
Too young to have seen Starr play...but the guy was very good...and people pointing to how many HOFers he had around him...at that point in time, teams that won were going to be recognized like that with HOF accolades. You just can't win that many times and not expect the players to get a ton of praise IMO.
Would they all have been recognized in that way without Starr helping them to titles..or would he be as good without others helping him to titles. Very tough question to answer...but they all played parts and Starr was a huge piece of that.
Rodgers vs. Favre.
Right now...its still Favre. The longevity and bringing this franchise back from the trash heap....MVPs...records...and the excitement are all a part of it.
Rodgers may pass him...he has the talent and arm and all to do so.
Both had weapons around them at times. Favre had better Olines for much of his career...and a better D. Rodgers has had probably had better WRs (as far as combined talent). Both also helped make those weapons look better at times. Good QBS do that.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
You are completely correct. I don't know what the coaching staff was thinking putting Rodgers in on D in the last 3 minutes of the game. And then the decision to put Rodgers on the hands team on the kickoff? That's just downright stupid.Sabertooth said:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Rodgers threw a terrible pick to Sherman early in the game. Just launched it right at the best corner in the game. Later he stated he thought they were offsides. But there was no flag. Huge error. Just because it happened early, people forget about that one.
DropKick
Footballguy
I thought the bigger culprit to be conservative play calling. The bad leg didn't help Rodgers either. He opted out of a couple scrambles that a healthy Rodgers would have capitalized on. No way they lose that game if Rodgers isn't hurt.Sabertooth said:
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Horrible example. They WERE offsides. Rodgers makes those plays all the time. He got burned by a crappy no call.
sho nuff
Footballguy
While D and special teams choked.
Rodgers had a pretty poor game for a bit of it there.
Dark Matter
Footballguy
Not one mention of Don "Magic" Majkowski 
I can't wait for the season to start so we aren't reminded of the last and possibly most awful loss in the history of the Green Bay Packers.
Starr=Great QB with most SB wins, played before most of the folks on this board were born so he's getting knocked down for that. The best of this bunch so far.
Rodgers=Favre in Super Bowl wins but Rodgers has the tools to surpass both when we have the advantage of hindsight on our side.
I can't wait for the season to start so we aren't reminded of the last and possibly most awful loss in the history of the Green Bay Packers.
Starr=Great QB with most SB wins, played before most of the folks on this board were born so he's getting knocked down for that. The best of this bunch so far.
Rodgers=Favre in Super Bowl wins but Rodgers has the tools to surpass both when we have the advantage of hindsight on our side.
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Warrior
Footballguy
Maybe he should actually check for a flag before throwing right at the best Qb on the opposing defense? It was a horrible, stupid decision. Admit it.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Totally disagree.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree. He didn't see a flag. Shouldn't have thrown the ball like that.
