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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Leonard Fournette, Bucs


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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I wouldn't think 4M would break the bank of a team to just see what they have in LF and how he fits their team for one season.  Just sign him for one year only as insurance to what you already have and a visual of how he might be for their team.  I've certainly seen worse contracts to stay away from.

The report came out that the Jax players were sick of him.  Earl Thomas is having trouble finding a job too, and he is a lot better. 

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2 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

I’d guess his pro OCs have a better grasp on his skillset and to my knowledge he wasn’t used like that on the Jags. They used TJ Yeldon as the receiving back when they were there together. If I’m wrong about him having noticeable usage running and being targeted on seam routes and deep wheel routes than I’ll happily stand corrected but like I said I don’t think he has done that in the pros. He’s a fairly limited route runner IMO.

No I think you’re probably correct. I just recall him running those sets a few times while at LSU but it definitely wasn’t his strength 

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5 minutes ago, Milkman said:

dang @Andy Dufresne really?  So you troll him. Then when he gets mad which was your intention, you try to get him thrown off FBG?

Yikes have some coffee. 

No, I was trying to diffuse a situation that I caused. And throw myself at the mercy of the court. 

@kolp I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. 

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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12 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I know you like to post like this on what I post, but really, what's this really about?  What's so funny about saying he will latch on with someone?  It's a general statement most believe, but I suppose he might not.

You "think" he will?

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1 minute ago, Cobbler1 said:

The tension is palpable. Fournette owners anxiously awaiting his landing spot. Owners of other starting rbs fearing he’ll wreck their guy’s value. 

The only team I care about not wanting him to go to is Pittsburgh, because of McFarland.  The others I'm not too worried about.

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On 3/22/2017 at 11:38 PM, Rhythmdoctor said:

I've watched a good amount of Fournette tape but it's been a couple of months, so I just watched some more.  I'm sorry folks but he's not special.  He's just not.  He needs a runway to be effective.  If his O-line doesn't create a lane or if he has to make sharp cuts, he's  a 2 yard RB.  He cannot think quick on his feet.  If he's not mentally prepared to make a cut a second or two in advance, he's going to trip over his own feet.  He's good at subtle cuts while running at full speed but that's not really saying much.  I think people so bad want that bruising, fast, dominant RB that they're forcing their will on Fournette and I'm not buying.  This guy will be an ok NFL RB probably but nothing special.  I'd draft McCaffrey, Mixon, Cook and Kamara all ahead of him easily.  He's barely in my top 10 at this point.  Seriously.  And some people are throwing out the AP comp??  Please.

Nailed it. 

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I watched him though out college, he would rack yards/Tds against lesser opponents and was always held in check against Bama and anyone else with NFL caliber talent, so his NFL career thus far isn’t too surprising. On one hand his stats are pretty pedestrian, but then I remind myself that he’s been with the Jags so maybe the #s he put up were actually good. Hard for me to say.

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39 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

The only team I care about not wanting him to go to is Pittsburgh, because of McFarland.  The others I'm not too worried about.

I took Montgomery in a draft last night. Quite a bit concerned about him. Have CEH in a couple dynasties as well and wouldn’t like LF possibly taking goal line work.

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13 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

I took Montgomery in a draft last night. Quite a bit concerned about him. Have CEH in a couple dynasties as well and wouldn’t like LF possibly taking goal line work.

If I recall LF wasn't very good at the goal line last year, but that was Jax, not KC.  I think one of the knocks on LF was that he should be more effective in short yardage, but I could be mistaken. 

Edited by JohnnyU
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2 hours ago, Cobbler1 said:

I’d guess his pro OCs have a better grasp on his skillset and to my knowledge he wasn’t used like that on the Jags. They used TJ Yeldon as the receiving back when they were there together. If I’m wrong about him having noticeable usage running and being targeted on seam routes and deep wheel routes than I’ll happily stand corrected but like I said I don’t think he has done that in the pros. He’s a fairly limited route runner IMO.

I watched every snap of his rookie season (as he helped me a couple leagues) and believe me or not, he ran those routes. Quite often he wouldn't get the target or Blake Bortles couldn't complete the pass because he's Blake Bortles but it happened. But as a wise man once said, nothing in the world is harder than convincing someone of an unfamiliar truth.

In 2018, I believe PFF had him graded as a top 10 pass catcher at RB.

As for evidence, in the ten minutes of searching I only found:

(1) One play with him catching the ball split out wide in his rookie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLc37GsSziA

(2) Article discussing Bortles' completing a wheel to Fournette in practice. https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180726/blake-bortles-sharp-in-jaguars-first-practice 

(3) Article from this year about Fournette burning Joe Schobert on a wheel in practice.

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2020/8/11/21363076/jacksonville-jaguars-rb-winning-leonard-fournette-2020-success-training-camp

 

Edited by creepythinman
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2 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

I haven't read the reports.  What were the Jax players upset about?

Quote

“Players got tired of Leonard Fournette. Some players in that locker room went to the powers that be and said they want him gone. And when the coaching staff already wanted him gone and the front office already tried to get rid of him and now the players come and go they want him out saying ‘he’s not on board with what we’re trying to do, what we’re able to do’ I think that’s when you pull the trigger. Something happened and that is my strong belief and theory of what’s going on right now. This was almost a player revolt.”

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2020/9/1/21417214/mark-long-jacksonville-jaguars-players-were-tired-of-leonard-fournette

 

That sounds a lot like the Ravens' Earl Thomas situation. 

It was also mentioned that LF is looking for a "Power Run Scheme" to prove himself for his next contract in, and "it wouldn't be about money" on Twitter.

 

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10 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2020/9/1/21417214/mark-long-jacksonville-jaguars-players-were-tired-of-leonard-fournette

 

That sounds a lot like the Ravens' Earl Thomas situation. 

It was also mentioned that LF is looking for a "Power Run Scheme" to prove himself for his next contract in, and "it wouldn't be about money" on Twitter.

 

It that truly is the case he'll likely come back to the pats and sign in the next week or so. Probably not be available to play week 1. 

 

https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob/status/1301144052621094913?s=20

Leonard Fournette #NFL Update Patriots had discussions with reps for Fournette last night, no deal just yet, talks seemed to be centered around 1 year prove it deal.. seems like Leonard will shop around for better offers before possibly circling back to Pats (Fluid Situation)

 

 

This would be a great landing spot and the pats might trade Sony Michel at that point. 

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35 minutes ago, Milkman said:

It that truly is the case he'll likely come back to the pats and sign in the next week or so. Probably not be available to play week 1. 

https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob/status/1301144052621094913?s=20

Leonard Fournette #NFL Update Patriots had discussions with reps for Fournette last night, no deal just yet, talks seemed to be centered around 1 year prove it deal.. seems like Leonard will shop around for better offers before possibly circling back to Pats (Fluid Situation)

This would be a great landing spot and the pats might trade Sony Michel at that point. 

Mike Giardi of NFL Network mentioned earlier today that he did not expect the Patriots to be in the running for LF. He was part of the local team that covered NE prior to his current gig.

LINK

From what I have seen / heard / observed over the years, NE contacts just about everyone that ends up on the open market. Obviously they only end up signing a handful of players. Unless Fournette wants to play for close to the league minimum, then I doubt he will have any interest in playing for the Pats.

As for NE trading Sony Michel, realistically, what could they expect in return? A half eaten ham sandwich?

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:



LINK

Unless Fournette wants to play for close to the league minimum, then I doubt he will have any interest in playing for the Pats.

 

That's exactly what I see him signing for there if he does. A similar contract to what Cam signed for. With some nice incentives that he can reach if he performs. 

Plays one year with them. Goes crazy and then hits the open market after a big year. That's really his only chance at getting a big contract and I'll be honest I've been all over the place with this. Fournette supposedly stated it won't be about the money this time around. 

https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1300901035146391552?s=20

On Leonard Fournette after he went unclaimed on waivers: I'm told wherever he lands won't be a money decision. 2020 is going to be about scheme fit and the coaching staff that leans into a power running game. Opportunity will be important, but skill fit will be absolutely vital.

 

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6 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Such a roller-coaster ride. I mean Fournette went from a 3rd-4th round pick to undraftable over night and the if one of the these 4 teams sign him he'll instantly be back in the 3rd maybe 2nd round of redrafts.

Pats

Bucs 

Chiefs

Chargers

 

Crazy ride boys!

 

Why would he shoot up so high? He would be in a RRBC in at NE, KC, and LAC. No way would he sniff 340 touches again in those spots.

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5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Why would he shoot up so high? He would be in a RRBC in at NE, KC, and LAC. No way would he sniff 340 touches again in those spots.

NE - Sony would likely be traded. For what i have no idea but upgrade your RB position and save 3 million. Sounds like the Patriot way.

KC - you're right but crazy TD potential there. Like 15+ ceiling. He'd be the 1st and 2nd down thumper and GL/short yardage. 

LAC - see Melvin Gordons carries (13.5 carries 4.5 targets / gm) as soon as he came back. He is absolutely an Anthony Lynn type RB. 

 

Edited by Milkman
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1 hour ago, creepythinman said:

I watched every snap of his rookie season (as he helped me a couple leagues) and believe me or not, he ran those routes. Quite often he wouldn't get the target or Blake Bortles couldn't complete the pass because he's Blake Bortles but it happened. But as a wise man once said, nothing in the world is harder than convincing someone of an unfamiliar truth.

In 2018, I believe PFF had him graded as a top 10 pass catcher at RB.

As for evidence, in the ten minutes of searching I only found:

(1) One play with him catching the ball split out wide in his rookie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLc37GsSziA

(2) Article discussing Bortles' completing a wheel to Fournette in practice. https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180726/blake-bortles-sharp-in-jaguars-first-practice 

(3) Article from this year about Fournette burning Joe Schobert on a wheel in practice.

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2020/8/11/21363076/jacksonville-jaguars-rb-winning-leonard-fournette-2020-success-training-camp

 

I appreciate the effort but practice isn’t really what I’m talking about here. Can you tell me when in the video this lone catch occurred? 

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12 minutes ago, Milkman said:

NE - Sony would likely be traded. For what i have no idea but upgrade your RB position and save 3 million. Sounds like the Patriot way.

KC - you're right but crazy TD potential there. Like 15+ ceiling. He'd be the 1st and 2nd down thumper and GL/short yardage. 

LAC - see Melvin Gordons carries (13.5 carries 4.5 targets / gm) as soon as he came back. He is absolutely an Anthony Lynn type RB. 

 

He’s not bumping up to the 2nd/3rd round in any of those places. LAC would probably be best. CEH isn’t going to just be a 3rd down back if LF signs in KC. He’d still be the lead.

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I am certainly not the smartest guy in the room, but why wouldn't people be lining up for him? He will come pretty cheap. This is not a fantasy standpoint, but a real life standpoint. You can manipulate his contract for conduct detrimental to the team or something. Hell. I will take him on the Browns with no questions asked. He probably wouldn't see the light of day with Chubb and Hunt, but that is one hell of an insurance policy if you have the cap space to burn.

 

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6 minutes ago, Milkman said:

NE - Sony would likely be traded. For what i have no idea but upgrade your RB position and save 3 million. Sounds like the Patriot way.

KC - you're right but crazy TD potential there. Like 15+ ceiling. He'd be the 1st and 2nd down thumper and GL/short yardage. 

LAC - see Melvin Gordons carries (13.5 carries 4.5 targets / gm) as soon as he came back. He is absolutely an Anthony Lynn type RB. 

NE - The Pats would take a $2.5 million cap hit to move on from Michel. I also don't see the Patriots offense and OL being much of an upgrade than Jacksonville. LF might be a slightly better option than Michel, but I am not sure by how much (unless you believe that Fournette can magically turn the switch on and become a mean SOB on command). Both guys have a career 4.0 ypc and both average a TD in 58% of games played. 

KC - Fournette might get 30-40% of the work , but how do we know he would get all the goal line carries? IMO, CEH is more dynamic and can do it all. IMO, LF would be a backup or at best get half the workload he had in JAC (unless CEH got hurt).

LAC - Ekeler would still get the workload he got last year. So LG might get 12 carries and 3 receptions a game. That's a long way from the 23 touches he had for the Jags last year.

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1 minute ago, drunkb said:

I am certainly not the smartest guy in the room, but why wouldn't people be lining up for him? He will come pretty cheap. This is not a fantasy standpoint, but a real life standpoint. You can manipulate his contract for conduct detrimental to the team or something. Hell. I will take him on the Browns with no questions asked. He probably wouldn't see the light of day with Chubb and Hunt, but that is one hell of an insurance policy if you have the cap space to burn.

 

He wasn’t cheap when a team like Cleveland could just claim him. Now LF has the choice where he wants to go and playing 3rd string in Cleveland isn’t likely to be top of his list.

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

NE - The Pats would take a $2.5 million cap hit to move on from Michel. I also don't see the Patriots offense and OL being much of an upgrade than Jacksonville. LF might be a slightly better option than Michel, but I am not sure by how much (unless you believe that Fournette can magically turn the switch on and become a mean SOB on command). Both guys have a career 4.0 ypc and both average a TD in 58% of games played. 

KC - Fournette might get 30-40% of the work , but how do we know he would get all the goal line carries? IMO, CEH is more dynamic and can do it all. IMO, LF would be a backup or at best get half the workload he had in JAC (unless CEH got hurt).

LAC - Ekeler would still get the workload he got last year. So LG might get 12 carries and 3 receptions a game. That's a long way from the 23 touches he had for the Jags last year.

Also if no one would claim Fournette for 4 mill why would they trade for Sony for more?

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10 minutes ago, drunkb said:

I am certainly not the smartest guy in the room, but why wouldn't people be lining up for him? He will come pretty cheap. This is not a fantasy standpoint, but a real life standpoint. You can manipulate his contract for conduct detrimental to the team or something. Hell. I will take him on the Browns with no questions asked. He probably wouldn't see the light of day with Chubb and Hunt, but that is one hell of an insurance policy if you have the cap space to burn.

Because teams will offer him as close to nothing as possible while his starting off negotiating position will be the $4.2 million he didn't get at a minimum. His agent will probably ask for more money, more years, and guaranteed money (and promote him has a Top 5 or 6 NFL RB). I am not so sure he will readily sign whatever lowball contract (in his mind) comes his way.

He may at some point opt for less money on a one year deal and an opportunity to show teams he still has it for a new deal in 2021, but I think we are not at that point yet. He could also decide winning is more important than either the money or a full time workload and sign with a contender. Lots of variables in play here.

Edited by Anarchy99
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Just now, Cobbler1 said:

He wasn’t cheap when a team like Cleveland could just claim him. Now LF has the choice where he wants to go and playing 3rd string in Cleveland isn’t likely to be top of his list.

I fully understand that. I know that he wouldn't sign here, but it is certainly worth it for every team to do their due diligence on the guy. He has to be getting some offers.

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1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

Because teams will offer him as close to nothing as possible while his starting off negotiating position will be the $4.2 million he didn't get at a minimum. His agent will probably ask for more money, more years, and guaranteed money (and promote him has a Top 5 or 6 NFL RB). I am not so sure he will readily sign whatever lowball contract (in his mind) comes his way.

He may at some point opt for less money on a one year deal and an opportunity to show teams he still has it for a new deal in 2021, but I think we are not at that point yet. He could also decide winning is more important than either the money or a full time workload and sign with a contender. Lot's of variables in play here.

I fully expect a "show me" one year deal. There will likely be a guaranteed $ amount with incentives.

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Just now, drunkb said:

I fully understand that. I know that he wouldn't sign here, but it is certainly worth it for every team to do their due diligence on the guy. He has to be getting some offers.

I agree. Some teams may be scared off by the ##### factor but I’m sure he has some interest. It’s been posted that he wants specific places that fits his style and I’m sure seeing the field is a factor for him too.

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Just now, drunkb said:

I fully understand that. I know that he wouldn't sign here, but it is certainly worth it for every team to do their due diligence on the guy. He has to be getting some offers.

Again, teams will have to figure out if he truly would be an upgrade compared to what they have. Over the last 3 seasons, the league average on rushing attempts has been 4.3, 4.4, and 4.1 ypc. LF has a career ypc of 4.0. As others have stated, his numbers have mostly come from having a heavy workload.

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Just now, Cobbler1 said:

I agree. Some teams may be scared off by the ##### factor but I’m sure he has some interest. It’s been posted that he wants specific places that fits his style and I’m sure seeing the field is a factor for him too.

Absolutely. The man wants the ball. Will it come down to money or winning (not necesarrily mutally exclusive)? Will he take more money to split carries or less money to be the man? Not many options on the latter of those.

 

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5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Again, teams will have to figure out if he truly would be an upgrade compared to what they have. Over the last 3 seasons, the league average on rushing attempts has been 4.3, 4.4, and 4.1 ypc. LF has a career ypc of 4.0. As others have stated, his numbers have mostly come from having a heavy workload.

Is that a product of the offense or him in general? Maybe he could flourish in a different scheme on a team that scores points. I don't know yet. I think that he at least should get a shot to break his own heart on who he thought he was.

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5 minutes ago, Milkman said:

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1301215530850942979?s=20

The two teams mentioned the most are the #Patriots and #Bills right now. Fournette is shopping around his top offer right now. Might be just a one-year deal.

 

He's going back to sign that minimum deal with incentives with the pats. Bye bye Sony.......

I can understand why people don’t love Michel. But is LF really that much of an upgrade? Is he better than Miller? Harris? IMO, having LF on the roster would equate to zero additional wins for NE this year. 

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21 minutes ago, drunkb said:

Is that a product of the offense or him in general? Maybe he could flourish in a different scheme on a team that scores points. I don't know yet. I think that he at least should get a shot to break his own heart on who he thought he was.

Him.

When you watch his tape, he has no vision, patience, or feel for the RB position at the NFL level.......he got by in college on pure athletic ability.

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Can’t see any team signing him prior to Week 1. I could be wrong, but is the provision in the new CBA the same as before where guys on the roster for Week 1 have their entire salary guaranteed for the season?
 

After that the contract is prorated and they would only have to pay for the number of games he’s on their roster. 

Edited by tangfoot
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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I can understand why people don’t love Michel. But is LF really that much of an upgrade? Is he better than Miller? Harris? IMO, having LF on the roster would equate to zero additional wins for NE this year. 

Not a Fournette fan, but I'll take him over Lamar Miller, easily.

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1 minute ago, Manster said:

Him.

When you watch his tape, he has no vision, patience, or feel for the RB position at the NFL level.......he got by in college on pure athletic ability.

That is a fair assessment. I can't argue that without watching a lot of tape. Obviously you have, so I am open to opinions. I have however watched a lot of football that says that you don't just skate by without those talents into the NFL. Talent scouts make a living doing that. You don't just get drafted that high as a project. 

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