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RB Leonard Fournette, FA (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
chinawildman
Footballguy
Not sure about not having any holes, Elliott's lateral agility is hardly exceptional and there's a general "stiffness" about his running style that's tough to explain.... I digress.
I agree with you on that last point... There is a natural nimbleness to Fournette's game that suggests he won't be out of place no matter where you put him.. Teams high on him are looking for a bruising homerun hitter that can play as a 3 down RB and contribute in the passing game. There aren't too many of those around, if at all.
I keep seeing Carolina and Jacksonville, and I don't think either of those make sense at all. Carolina needs defensive help more than anything, as their once great defense was a liability for a lot of last season. They signed a couple vets, but that shouldn't prevent them from continuing to build the position back up. I expect them to take a RB, but more likely in round 3 or 4. Stewart is still solid when healthy.
I don't see RB as a problem for the Jags, blocking is. Not many RBs could have success with that blocking, they also could use another weapon for Bortles. I think they should try to kill 2 birds with one stone and take OJ Howard. They could take a RB later, but honestly, I think Yeldon and Ivory is probably good enough.
I truly believe(and I know I'm in the minority) that Fournette is a tough fit in most offenses. Kansas City would probably be an amazing fit, but they would obviously have to trade up, ditto for Green Bay. I personally think any team who takes a QB or RB in the top-10 is making a mistake. This is a loaded defensive draft, with one of the greatest TE prospects ever in it, and some very underrated o-line prospects and WR's as well.
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I don't know. If I have 1.01, I'm taking Fournette all day (rookie drafts) and not losing sleep over it. I'm not sold on Elliot being on a higher tier. Is he a great rb? Yep. Would I lover to have Elliot on my team? Hell yeah. But I also think it has some to do with the Dallas effect. I think most rbs would be a helluva lot better running behind the #1 OL in the NFL. My main concern with Fournette is health. He's a battering ram with wheels. I just hope he can hold up to the beating over the long haul.
Its a myth that Dallas has the best o-line in the NFL. They have a lot of great, and highly drafted players, but they are more top tier than #1. Tennessee has a better o-line, and Green Bay did, though that may not be the case after losing Lang and Tretter. Oakland is right there as well.
I think this is shaping up to be a great year to trade the #1 rookie pick, I'm not sure I think there is a big difference between pick #1 and pick #7, the talent is close enough for me, that it'll all be landing spot based.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
There's not one starting caliber back between the two rosters. Carolina would likely need to make some scheme changes, but he's plug-n-play in Jax. He instantly takes both offenses up a notch. He makes sense both teams and, at this point, I'll be surprised if he doesn't end up with one of the two.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
They were hurt by injuries last year, but were the most talented offensive line in league last year. We'll see how well Green and Collins replace Free and Leary.
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Pipes
Footballguy
Yeah not a myth. Martin and Frederick are probably the 2 best run blocking interior lineman in the NFL. From a pass blocking standpoint GB was as good as Dallas' line last year but GB's line doesn't blow lineman off the ball anywhere near how Dallas does in the running game. You could be correct about Ten but the fact is Dallas' oline is spectacular.
nirad3
Footballguy
Yeah Dallas' OL is insanely good, especially run blocking wise. I think OAK's isn't far behind. TEN also good.
I digress.... Fournette is certainly polarizing. One thing I'm not worried about with him is his hands. He actually has fairly soft hands catching the ball out of the backfield. Just needs to get used to it on a regular basis. AP is a great comp in this regard. I'm a huge fan of Fournette. I think he'll be a great NFL and fantasy back. I don't see how JAX doesn't take him at #4. Chris Ivory is a stopgap and Yeldon is a JAG.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I would hope Fournette will at least be better than Peterson in pass protection and he would only need to be an average receiving RB to be as good as Peterson in that area.
As a runner does not have the jump cut or speed of Adrian Peterson and with his vision he is going to need to be more powerful than Peterson and break more tackles to be as effective Peterson was.
I doubt Fournette is a top 10 pick.
As a runner does not have the jump cut or speed of Adrian Peterson and with his vision he is going to need to be more powerful than Peterson and break more tackles to be as effective Peterson was.
I doubt Fournette is a top 10 pick.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. There's a very good chance Carolina takes him at #8 and if not, someone will jump up to do it.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Greg Gabriel says he talks directly to NFL GMs, and other sources in the NFL from his scouting days. But I just started following him this year so idk how accurate he has been in past years.
He tweeted today that as long as CLE doesn't throw a curve ball at 1 and they take Garrett as expected, SF will take Fournette if they can't trade down.
On the one hand, it seems dumb. On the other, Fournette with Shanahan would be interesting.
Seems weird to hire an offensive mind whose entire coaching tree is known for pulling 1,000 yard rushers from late round prospects, and then spend the #2 overall pick on a RB (regardless of how you feel about that RB).
He tweeted today that as long as CLE doesn't throw a curve ball at 1 and they take Garrett as expected, SF will take Fournette if they can't trade down.
On the one hand, it seems dumb. On the other, Fournette with Shanahan would be interesting.
Seems weird to hire an offensive mind whose entire coaching tree is known for pulling 1,000 yard rushers from late round prospects, and then spend the #2 overall pick on a RB (regardless of how you feel about that RB).
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Borden
Footballguy
At #2 overall, Fournette would be the 4th highest paid RB in the league. That seems like a lot for a team that needs as much help as they do at other positions. Plus, at 2 it's not like they can say that there isn't other equatable talent available. I can't see Lynch doing this. If it does happen, think it's the owner. Once owners get involved and force the "flashy" picks, a team is pretty much doomed.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Agreed. Going along with this line of thought, it would pretty much prove why the 49ers were stuck with a candidate like Lynch in the first place, rather than someone with pedigree and experience who would never work under Jed York.
Or maybe the inexperienced combo of Shanahan/Lynch have the run of the place and make this pick because they love Fournette and don't know what they're doing.
Either way, if it happens, it's an indictment of the 49ers and whoever is calling the shots.
And I love Fournette. It's just a bad, bad pick at #2.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I don't buy Fournette at 2, but can someone help me understand the 9ers angle here? What do they get out of feigning interest in Fournette?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Who else would be interested in Fournette that would move up to pick 2 overall with SF to select him?
The Vikings got an extra 4th 5th and 7th round picks from Cleveland in 2012 to move from pick 4 to pick 3. So if Jacksonville really wanted him, it would cost something slight more than that to move up two spots.
Seems like smoke to me. Maybe a bit naive? Can't really blame SF front office for trying whatever they can to generate interest in the pick. 2012 wasn't that long ago and deals like this happen at times.
Greg Gabriel is a good writer, but I haven't read anything by him that I recall lately.
The Vikings got an extra 4th 5th and 7th round picks from Cleveland in 2012 to move from pick 4 to pick 3. So if Jacksonville really wanted him, it would cost something slight more than that to move up two spots.
Seems like smoke to me. Maybe a bit naive? Can't really blame SF front office for trying whatever they can to generate interest in the pick. 2012 wasn't that long ago and deals like this happen at times.
Greg Gabriel is a good writer, but I haven't read anything by him that I recall lately.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
You have to think that if you're trying to generate interest in a trade, you'd do so with someone other than Fournette. Trading up for a top 2 pick is just such a massive, massive investment for a RB. Assuming they were trying to bluff, I'd guess they'd have better luck with Trubisky.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think they have hinted at the QBs as well. Likely a shotgun approach of hyping as many players at the pick as possible.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Don't think this is a "team smoke screen" thing like people are insinuating the QB interest is. This is just from one ex-scout on Twitter as far as I've seen, who claims to be in contact with GMs. He's claiming Fournette is their real plan if they can't get anyone to fall for their Trubisky interest and trade for #2.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
It looks like a few sources are suggesting it. http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/4/25/15423364/nfl-draft-rumors-49ers-interested-in-leonard-fournette-second-pick
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Lets pump the brakes on Elliot. 10 other backs in the league could have done just as well on the cowboys as he did. Like to see him playing on the Vikings with their line then I'll give him the HoF treatment.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
There's plenty of video of Elliott doing exceptional things independent of his offensive line. He was an elite prospect going into the draft. PFF isn't perfect, but they graded him top 2 as a runner. Their grade does a pretty good job of separating the performance of the runner from the performance of his offensive line. He's easily one of the most talented runners in the league and there are not 10 backs in the league capable of doing what he did.
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chinawildman
Footballguy
I get all the ADP comparisons (because what draft isn't complete w/o a "best since ADP" guy)... but Fournette reminds me more of Corey Dillon or Jamal Lewis.
I also think the widespread presumption that he is a "one dimensional" back is premature... Frank Gore wasn't utilized much at all in the passing game in college and turned out to be one of the most versatile RBs in the game. From what I've seen Fournette has enough nimbleness and awareness to play a role in the pass game. If Eddie Lacy could squeeze out a 3 down back role, certainly Fournette has an opportunity.
I also think the widespread presumption that he is a "one dimensional" back is premature... Frank Gore wasn't utilized much at all in the passing game in college and turned out to be one of the most versatile RBs in the game. From what I've seen Fournette has enough nimbleness and awareness to play a role in the pass game. If Eddie Lacy could squeeze out a 3 down back role, certainly Fournette has an opportunity.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Yes! The best comps I've seen (with some hyperbole) is Jamal Lewis and Earl Campbell. Fournette has tree trunks for legs and is going to stack 1000 yard seasons. If he could be Jamal Lewis 2.0 with more catches, that'd be fine with me. 8 1000+ yard season, sign me up.
And I agree that he's not one dimensional. He's caught the ball well out of the backfield, with some catches coming on routes over 30 yards down field. He doesn't have bricks for hands like Donta Foreman. When he leaves the pocket, he's looking back for the ball. He's not going to be the next leveon bell, but 50+ catches isn't impossible.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Gurley, David Johnson, Bell, Howard, Ajayi, Miller, Hyde, Shady, D.Murray, Lacy. Ten guys who could have stepped in for Elliot last year and you wouldn't lose a thing. It's all about the line. He really wasn't an elite runner, more of an elite all-around prospect. There's better runners than him in most drafts, as Fournette is this year. Put him on the cowboys and he would destroy teams.
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nirad3
Footballguy
nirad3
Footballguy
Spike
Footballguy
Not doubting, just asking a question - isn't Fournette deficient at pass-protection? Wouldn't that sort of preclude him from being part of the passing game in the pros?
Borden
Footballguy
Fournette's "lack of Pass Pro" is over blown. A) He's big and strong enough to do it. B) He displays the mental aggression to be a good enough blocker. All he needs is his technique to cleaned up. He will learn assignments during practice/film work.
I'm not saying he's great at it but it's not a big enough concern to worry about. Almost every single college RB has to improve their pass blocking.
chinawildman
Footballguy
What Borden said... plus catches like this make me think he can be more than just a dump-off/screen guy in the pass game.
nirad3
Footballguy
Agree with posts above. He has the physicality to be fine in pass protection. Just needs work with technique, same as 90% of other RBs coming out of college. As for his hands, I think they're better than folks give him credit for. Another thing he can certainly work on and improve though.
steelers1080
Footballguy
If that's true then Dalvin Cook is in huge trouble. His pass protection is the worst but most people aren't talking about him as being precluded from the passing game.Spike said:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I'm very confident in my opinion of Zeke as a runner and am not interested in changing yours. I simply and strongly disagree, to say the least.voiceofunreason said:
CabinFever
Footballguy
I agree 1.1 value just went up. Great spot for Fournette.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Great spots for McCaffrey and Davis as well. Shaping up to be an epic fantasy draft.
CabinFever
Footballguy
Imagine if Cook goes to Washington and Mixon to Green Bay?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Which of Trubisky, Fournette, McCaffery, Davis, Williams or Ross do you not consider offensively skilled?
