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RB Leonard Fournette, Bucs


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10 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

No, just pointing out he wasn't very good in the red zone.

Kind of hard to be good in the redzone when teams stack 8-9 in the box every play, and have no respect for your passing game.  He is not the best goal line back by any means, but you absolutely have to take into account how defenses schemed against the Jags, and it was "Stop Fournette". 

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2 minutes ago, DeaLerZ said:

Kind of hard to be good in the redzone when teams stack 8-9 in the box every play, and have no respect for your passing game.  He is not the best goal line back by any means, but you absolutely have to take into account how defenses schemed against the Jags, and it was "Stop Fournette". 

yea, I had him on a few teams last year so watched a lot of Jaguar games.  pretty much every opponent stacked the box & the Jag's offensive line was one of the worst in the league.  I don't see many backs overcoming that.  Barry Sanders does come to mind though in that regard.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Huh? I didn’t call Fournette the new James White. I expect him to be the lead back on 1st and 2nd downs in a RBBC.

I also didn't call Rojo the James White either if that's what you're trying to say.

Neither are great receivers out of the backfield - although Fournette did rack up receptions last season.

Yes, I said “only with” as in you were correct about the split but flip flop the players. 

Fournette has had a lot more receiving experience in his career. 

i said maybe you called it for the roles/split. 

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1 minute ago, Cobbler1 said:

This board would be so much fun if this became a useless 4 man committee.

Quote

 

NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports "indications" are Buccaneers RB LeSean McCoy will still be used in the passing game and on third downs.

Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio initially reported McCoy is still expected to make Tampa Bay's 53-man roster following the Leonard Fournette signing, but any "integral" role for Shady would obviously impact Ronald Jones' touches even further. Assuming Fournette handles goal line work (with a direct path to leading the team in carries) and McCoy fends off Dare Ogunbowale for the team's third-down role, that leaves Jones with empty carries between the 20's. Fournette remains the mid-range RB3 we would target given his foreseeable touchdown equity.

 

 

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Rotoworld saying McCoy is the receiving back - that hurts both RoJo & Fournette a bit. 

Chris Towers & the FFT crew seem pretty pessimistic this morning: :shrug: 

This is how our crew breaks down the Fournette/Jones combo in today's Fantasy Football Today in 5 podcast. This is sort of how I view the new situation in Tampa:  

Is there a clear No. 1 RB here? Fournette is certainly more accomplished than Ronald Jones, but does that mean he'll step in as the starter from Day 1? Jones was a better playmaker in the passing game last season, and it's not like Fournette has been a dynamic rusher either. 

But there will be one eventually, right? I'm not sure there has to be. This signing seems to create the worst of both worlds, with neither Jones nor Fournette standing out in any one facet of the game enough to say there will be clear roles. It could be a true timeshare. 

But why would they bring Fournette in if they didn't want him to start? Maybe they just saw an opportunity to get a talented player for cheap, and they aren't married to using him in any one specific role. Ride the hot hand and keep a rotation without tipping your hand by bringing in a pass-catching specialist.  

But why would Fournette sign so quickly to split work? This is the better question, and it's the one that gives me pause. Running backs aren't typically hot commodities in the NFL these days, but apparently there were several teams after Fournette after he cleared waivers Wednesday, and it didn't take long at all for him to sign. If Fournette got a promise that he'd be the lead back on one of the busiest offenses in the league, that'd be a pretty good incentive for an impending free agent. 

What kind of split do you expect? I lean toward Fournette being the lead back, which makes it awfully tough for Jones to carve out a role unless he really has improved as a pass blocker. Of course, if Jones improved as a pass blocker enough to take on that role, Fournette probably wouldn't be in Tampa. I would guess Fournette settles in around 60-65% of the touches in Tampa, including the goal-line work, most likely. 

Where should I draft Fournette and Jones? I view Fournette as a fringe starting option right now, someone in the 25-30 range at running back; Jones probably drops to the 35-40 range. So, fourth/fifth range for Fournette, may be seventh/eighth for Jones? Either could dramatically outperform that cost, obviously, but it would require a clear hierarchy to be established one way or the other. 

Should I just fade the backfield entirely? This is where I'm leaning, because I'm also personally pretty pessimistic about Tampa's offense in general.

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16 minutes ago, DeaLerZ said:

For now ... Fournette hasn't even practiced yet lol ... give that 2-4 weeks and see how things are going... either way Fournette was not going to come in there and take over right away anyways 

 

Gives Fournette just enough time to pop a hammy and alienate his teammates. Good time-frame. :lol: 

(I kid, I kid!)

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

FBG is telling everyone this is a 4 headed monster and a situation to avoid but they are forgetting one thing. Lenny wouldn't have signed with Tampa this quick if they hadn't told him he's the man as soon as he's up to speed. He's playing for a huge contract this season. Tampa promised him touches and lots of them. 

I told everyone that within 11 seconds of the deal being announced. 

Lenny signed because he got 3.5 million dollars. Assigning any other narrative to that is pure presumption. Maybe he likes the weather or the girls in Florida. Maybe he got bills to pay. Maybe he is a big Ronald Jones fan and went there to be a mentor. We really just don't know the answer to that, but players go places all the time for all kinds of reasons. 

He's barely getting paid more than the last year of a rookie contract, so it's not like the Bucs have invested "starter money" in him. 

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Local sports talking heads where I live think the Bucs scored a great piece at a discount.....like they are dumbfounded that a talent like Fournette landed with the Bucs.......like he's getting peanuts and will use this opp to land a big payday........ummm, apparently they don't watch Jags games.....at least I know not to listen to these guys for FF intel!  

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10 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

This board would be so much fun if this became a useless 4 man committee.

Honestly can see it going that way. Last year we saw Arians pushing Barber out on the field when RoJo clearly had taken a step after a meh rookie season.

Jones by far looked like the more productive and explosive back, and yet you still had games with a forced split or even more inexplicably, Barber getting the start after a great outing by Rojo. (W4 vs Rams Rojo gets 19/70 vs Barber's 9/19, next game vs NO carries are split evenly; WK 9 ROjo goes18/67 vs SE to Barber's 4/15, each get 11 carries vs ARI the following week; I could go on).

I think Arians has shown, often without reason, that he likes the committee approach so giving LF first down looks and bringing in others in middle/passing downs seems very likely.

It may also be that Arians never had a true 3-down back before, and LF can be that guy. He'll need to improve his pass pro, though, which is a big weakness in his game -- opening the door to others getting snaps in passing down situations.

Bottom line is that it could be that LF takes over the backfield, but the more likely scenario IMO is a full blown committee.

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1 minute ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Honestly can see it going that way. Last year we saw Arians pushing Barber out on the field when RoJo clearly had taken a step after a meh rookie season.

Jones by far looked like the more productive and explosive back, and yet you still had games with a forced split or even more inexplicably, Barber getting the start after a great outing by Rojo. (W4 vs Rams Rojo gets 19/70 vs Barber's 9/19, next game vs NO carries are split evenly; WK 9 ROjo goes18/67 vs SE to Barber's 4/15, each get 11 carries vs ARI the following week; I could go on).

I think Arians has shown, often without reason, that he likes the committee approach so giving LF first down looks and bringing in others in middle/passing downs seems very likely.

It may also be that Arians never had a true 3-down back before, and LF can be that guy. He'll need to improve his pass pro, though, which is a big weakness in his game -- opening the door to others getting snaps in passing down situations.

Bottom line is that it could be that LF takes over the backfield, but the more likely scenario IMO is a full blown committee.

While this was true with Arians last year in TB, it was the opposite for his years with the Steelers and Cardinals. In those years, if he had a healthy "top back", they got fed. The biggest notable example is David Johnson's monster year in 2016. 

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The RB who isn't good in this discussion is Jones. If they had so much confidence in him, why did they bring in Shady? 

And if they don't have high expectations for Fournette, why bring him in?

To me it's obvious. They didn't love Jones so they brought in Shady. And when Fournette became available, they realized he was better than what they already had. 

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18 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Gives Fournette just enough time to pop a hammy and alienate his teammates. Good time-frame. :lol: 

 

Stop with the injury nonsense, please.

Fournette missed one game last season and it was in Week 17 so there was no reason for him to play.

He had one injury plagued season with multiple hamstring pulls. Do you know who else missed 4 games with a hamstring pull as a rookie? Ronald Jones.

Guess what? Injuries happen to RBs. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Stop with the injury nonsense, please.

Fournette missed one game last season and it was in Week 17 so there was no reason for him to play.

He had one injury plagued season with multiple hamstring pulls. Do you know who else missed 4 games with a hamstring pull as a rookie? Ronald Jones.

Guess what? Injuries happen to RBs. 

It was a joke. Thus the laugh emoji.

It should be taken exactly as seriously as anyone saying they know what’s going to happen in that backfield or a time-frame for the alleged ascension. 

the reality is no one knows what’s gonna happen in TB & we likely won’t into game 1. And maybe not even them. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Payne said:

The RB who isn't good in this discussion is Jones. If they had so much confidence in him, why did they bring in Shady? 

because every team needs depth, and all the Bucs GAF was Dare behind RoJo. It was inevitable that they brought in someone. Saying they brought in Shady because RoJo wasn’t good is a false conclusion. 

5 minutes ago, Payne said:

And if they don't have high expectations for Fournette, why bring him in?

who knows what their expectations are other than “he’s cheap”. 

5 minutes ago, Payne said:

To me it's obvious. They didn't love Jones so they brought in Shady. And when Fournette became available, they realized he was better than what they already had. 

That’s your narrative. Time will tell what the Bucs narrative is. 

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As exciting as this topic is, the Seahawks just signed Josh Gordon to a new contract, which is gonna make this topic seem boring & tame comparatively 

but let’s apply the same questioning/speculation to that: 

“if Lockett & Metcalf were any good, why would they bring in Gordon?”

Sounds a little silly... I’m just sayin. 

 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

because every team needs depth, and all the Bucs GAF was Dare behind RoJo. It was inevitable that they brought in someone. Saying they brought in Shady because RoJo wasn’t good is a false conclusion. 

who knows what their expectations are other than “he’s cheap”. 

That’s your narrative. Time will tell what the Bucs narrative is. 

Even acknowledging the need for depth, since the end of last season the Bucs used a 3rd round pick on Vaughn, signed McCoy and signed Fournette. That's not a vote of confidence.

Also, Fournette's deal used up most of their cap space and Tampa will probably need to make some moves to clear up space so I'm not sure it's as simple as "he's cheap"

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

As exciting as this topic is, the Seahawks just signed Josh Gordon to a new contract, which is gonna make this topic seem boring & tame comparatively 

but let’s apply the same questioning/speculation to that: 

“if Lockett & Metcalf were any good, why would they bring in Gordon?”

Sounds a little silly... I’m just sayin. 

 

Come on. WR is a totally different animal than RB.

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Just now, barackdhouse said:

Come on. WR is a totally different animal than RB.

Yes, I’m aware, but the illogic is the same. 

We have no idea what the Bucs think of RoJo other than what they say. And they continue to say they love the dude. 

yet all the speculation here is that if they loved the dude they wouldn’t have brought in anyone else.

thats a false conclusion. It is unsupported. All we know is that they had a chance to bring in a cheap RB & they did. 

the rest is TBD. It looks like a mess. 

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1 minute ago, barackdhouse said:

There *were* reports what about a week and a half ago? About Jones (and others) making mistakes in recent practices. 

I'm not convinced they're sold on *any* of these guys. 

Jones has not done anything significant in his career

Mccoy is on his way out

Vaughn is a rookie

They are in "Win-Now Mode" with Brady there

They have no reason to be convinced.  

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5 minutes ago, Tom Hagen said:

Even acknowledging the need for depth, since the end of last season the Bucs used a 3rd round pick on Vaughn, signed McCoy and signed Fournette. That's not a vote of confidence.

Also, Fournette's deal used up most of their cap space and Tampa will probably need to make some moves to clear up space so I'm not sure it's as simple as "he's cheap"

It’s what, 7 days to the season opener. Not sure how much need they gave for that cap space at this point.

Until we see the product on the field we just don’t know. Arians our here sayin RoJo is their guy, 

Maybe Fournette is the backup. Maybe he takes over. Maybe it’s RBBC. We just don’t know.!

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yes, I’m aware, but the illogic is the same

We have no idea what the Bucs think of RoJo other than what they say. And they continue to say they love the dude. 

yet all the speculation here is that if they loved the dude they wouldn’t have brought in anyone else.

thats a false conclusion. It is unsupported. All we know is that they had a chance to bring in a cheap RB & they did. 

the rest is TBD. It looks like a mess. 

Totally disagree. It really does seem like an indictment and is completely unlike a WR situation in that sense. That doesn't mean they're giving the backfield to LF either. A committee is the obvious take. We can't say as a fact because we simply don't know, but I'm calling this an indictment. Because on my board I have to make decisions without perfect information, and this screams indictment. Not to the point of trading Jones or not playing him at all, but he is not going to be the guy. 

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2 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Amazing Fournette has a base salary of 2 mil and Todd Gurley is 5 mil.

Gurley is better than Fournette, not 2.5 times better, but still better. Now, Jordan Howard on the other hand...

 

2 hours ago, Capella said:

Ed werder: One defensive coach evaluating #Bucs signing Leonard Fournette made the point he’s a quality pass protector at running back, something Tampa Bay lacked. Line one for Bruce Arians is protecting Tom Brady, in his age-43 season.

I don't know what that defensive coach has watched, but Fournette is an awful pass blocker. Probably the worst on Tampa, depending where Vaughn is at. McCoy is significantly better at it, both historically and just in 2019.

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Just now, barackdhouse said:

Totally disagree. It really does seem like an indictment and is completely unlike a WR situation in that sense. That doesn't mean they're giving the backfield to LF either. A committee is the obvious take. We can't say as a fact because we simply don't know, but I'm calling this an indictment. Because on my board I have to make decisions without perfect information, and this screams indictment. Not to the point of trading Jones or not playing him at all, but he is not going to be the guy. 

Oh, I’ve swapped him out of my flex spot on my dynasty roster for sure. 

i ain’t saying it is, I ain’t saying it isn’t. I’m saying nobody knows.

Maybe, like the trend in the NFL
has been, Arians just likes using a committee now. 

A lot of folks make assumptions based on paycheck as well.

So Melvin Gordon got $14M From Denver. I fully expect Shurmer to use him 65-70% & Lindsey 30-35%. Thats lead dog $.

Fournette got $3.5M. That could easily be RBBC money.  Heck, it could be “talented backup $” but I doubt it. 

Like you, other than the humorous banter that’s been a theme of this topic, I’m trying to gauge this for FF.  I’m out on both for my redraft tomorrow night. 

For Dynasty I’m a hold on RoJo & hoping he has flex value as part of the RBBC.

I’m skeptical that Fournette takes over & pushes RoJo to the bench. Partly because I don’t think Fournette is that good, partly because his pass pro is really not good. Arians benched RoJo for missing a blitz assignment that got Winston blowed up & I don’t doubt he’ll do the same to Fournette if it happens with Brady. 

so it’s officially wait & see. Everything else is speculation, but I maintain that this isn’t ideal for anyone involved except the Bucs, who got deeper cheaper. 

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2 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Fournette is an awful pass blocker. Probably the worst on Tampa, depending where Vaughn is at. McCoy is significantly better at it, both historically and just in 2019.

someone said Fournette is bottom 6 in the league, so yeah - that’s out of left field. 

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7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

someone said Fournette is bottom 6 in the league, so yeah - that’s out of left field. 

"PFF ranked Fournette 47th among the 58 backs who played a qualifying number of snaps. Fournette's 64.0 grade was the lowest in his three-year career."

 

"And while Fournette's running grade was adequate enough, his 37.3 pass-blocking grade was the sixth worst in all of football."   3 days ago

Edited by DeaLerZ
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2 minutes ago, DeaLerZ said:

"PFF ranked Fournette 47th among the 58 backs who played a qualifying number of snaps. Fournette's 64.0 grade was the lowest in his three-year career."

 

"And while Fournette's running grade was adequate enough, his 37.3 pass-blocking grade was the sixth worst in all of football."   3 days ago

Yeah, that’s....not good. lol

I can hear the defenders now, “maybe he just didn’t like his QBs! Maybe he’ll try harder for Brady!”

he’d better. Arians has a leash about 6 cm long for missing blocking assignments. Just ask RoJo. 

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37 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yes, I’m aware, but the illogic is the same. 

We have no idea what the Bucs think of RoJo other than what they say. And they continue to say they love the dude. 

yet all the speculation here is that if they loved the dude they wouldn’t have brought in anyone else.

thats a false conclusion. It is unsupported. All we know is that they had a chance to bring in a cheap RB & they did. 

the rest is TBD. It looks like a mess. 

Arians said the same thing about OJ Howard. We all saw how that worked out last year. 

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Just now, Milkman said:

Arians said the same thing about OJ Howard. We all saw how that worked out last year. 

He's still on the team and likely the Move TE while Gronk is a RZ sponge. :shrug: 

I didn't hear what he said about Howard, so I can't say if it's the same scenario. We'll know what the Bucs think of their backs after a game or two. Speculation is fun and all, but at some point the rubber will hit the road. Until it does I'm going to assume RBBC. 

But that's me - I'm risk averse in the first 5-6 rounds. I like having a locked in lineup. For others who take more of a moonshot approach, if you believe Fournette is the 2nd coming of football Jesus, by all means spend a 4th or 5th on him hoping he takes over by week 3. But even with that redraft approach, if he's at the same ADP as Jonathan Taylor, I'd probably take my chances with Taylor. 

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53 minutes ago, DeaLerZ said:

"PFF ranked Fournette 47th among the 58 backs who played a qualifying number of snaps. Fournette's 64.0 grade was the lowest in his three-year career."

 

"And while Fournette's running grade was adequate enough, his 37.3 pass-blocking grade was the sixth worst in all of football."   3 days ago

 

then why did they pick him up?

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3 hours ago, shadrap said:

yea, I had him on a few teams last year so watched a lot of Jaguar games.  pretty much every opponent stacked the box & the Jag's offensive line was one of the worst in the league.  I don't see many backs overcoming that.  Barry Sanders does come to mind though in that regard.

I believe Barry Sanders is the all-time leader in being tackled for negative yardage, but I could be mistaken. 

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Had to chuckle a little bit at this tweet:

Quote

https://twitter.com/GrahamBarfield/status/1293219597252874241
Bruce Arians lying about how he’ll use his running backs. A four-part story.
[Screenshots of headlines]


"Bruce Arians: Andre Ellington 'still the focal point' on offense" -February 23, 2015
"Arians calls Chris Johnson 'our lead dog'" -Sept 14, 2015
(My note: David Johnson ended the season as the starter)

"Bruce Arians says he wants to 'build around' Peyton Barber" -February 27, 2019
"Bruce Arians names Ronald Jones as Buccaneer's starting RB" -Nov 4, 2019

Clearly we shouldn't really trust what Arians says. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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  • Faust changed the title to RB Leonard Fournette, Bucs

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