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RB Leonard Fournette, Bucs


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7 hours ago, simey said:

I'm interested to see how well Tom Brady plays. Last year he was not as good as in the past. This year he is surrounded by a very talented cast, but he is still an old quarterback. We'll see if last year's step back was more due to his cast, or due to his age, or maybe a little of both. Arians has certainly made an effort to help him succeed. 

Brady's arm is toast, but his supporting cast is waaaaay better......BUT winston took a ton of hits partly because his guys were working deeper routes, and the O line was kind of junk......now, winston held the ball too long a lot of the time also......

The days of Brady chucking jump balls down the sideline are in the past......I could actually see a decent strategy of drafting TB and selling high after a few games, cuz he's old.

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Cam Newton embodies Patriot Way; Leonard Fournette's fresh start and Adrian Peterson's potential finish

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Leonard Fournette's impact on Tampa Bay's offense. 
 

Perhaps Bruce Arians really sees Ronald Jones II as the Buccaneers' RB1, but signing Leonard Fournette was all about getting the Bucs a workhorse back with the potential to change how defensive coordinators defend the team's star-studded lineup.

Since entering the league as the No. 4 overall pick in 2017, Fournette has topped the 100-yard mark in eight of the 14 regular-season games in which he's logged at least 20 rushing attempts. And that doesn't include a pair of narrow misses (28 rushes for 95 yards against Pittsburgh in 2018, 24 rushes for 97 yards against Tennessee in 2019) that would've pushed his totals to "Most Wanted" status in defensive coordinator circles.

Remember: Every defensive coordinator in the league is obsessed with stopping the run. They will utilize loaded boxes to neutralize legitimate running threats in the backfield at the risk of leaving their cornerbacks in one-on-one coverage on the outside. Despite his up-and-down production in Jacksonville, Fournette faced loaded boxes on 47.8 percent of his snaps in 2017, 39.1 percent in 2018 and 34.7 percent in 2019, per Next Gen Stats. Against the Buccaneers, employing loaded-box tactics will expose defensive backs to one-on-one coverage against a pair of Pro Bowl pass catchers (Mike Evans and Chris Godwin) and three of playmakers at tight end (Rob Gronkowski, O.J. Howard and Cameron Brate). With Tom Brady utilizing the play-action passing game to lure defenders to the line, the mere presence of Fournette upgrades Tampa Bay's offense.

 

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4 hours ago, Milkman said:

This simply isn't true. It happens all the time. Typically a good offense will make an average player look better than he really is. 

I said force feed, not feed. Just meaning his Jax volume is going way down. 

Edit: Fwiw that was not intended to sound snippy either!

Edited by kittenmittens
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On 9/2/2020 at 5:07 PM, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

apparently you didn’t watch Ronald Jones at all last year, or in college. Your description of him lacks accuracy. 

Uhhh... I've watched a lot of Ronald Jones and also read a lot of reports out of training camp.

He was a 2 down back in college who's mightily struggled in pass pro and pass catch in the NFL. Every year he "improves" but still has a major deficit in both areas. 

Further, his vision sucks. It's why he struggled so much he had a 1.9 yard average his first year. Future Hall of Famer Peyton Barber had 3.7 yards. Ronald Jones ran through truck-sized holes in college and tried to bounce everything his rookie year. He got better at reading in year 2, but you could maybe say he has average vision. 

Both his -2.3% DVOA and the Bucs bringing in Fournette (which I disagreed with you about) support my assertions - as does the film I've watched.  

Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.

edit: You also can go back and read all my posts about the Bucs backfield (and Rojo) I've had it largely pegged since then (although I thought Barber would hit 1000 last year, he got 871). Rojo might take a big step forward this year under Brady. But it's going to need to be a big step forward. He's been a big disappointment. 

Edited by btemp
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12 minutes ago, btemp said:

Uhhh... I've watched a lot of Ronald Jones and also read a lot of reports out of training camp.

He was a 2 down back in college who's mightily struggled in pass pro and pass catch in the NFL. Every year he "improves" but still has a major deficit in both areas. 

Further, his vision sucks. It's why he struggled so much he had a 1.9 yard average his first year. Future Hall of Famer Peyton Barber had 3.7 yards. Ronald Jones ran through truck-sized holes in college and tried to bounce everything his rookie year. He got better at reading in year 2, but you could maybe say he has average vision. 

Both his -2.3% DVOA and the Bucs bringing in Fournette (which I disagreed with you about) support my assertions - as does the film I've watched.  

Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.

edit: You also can go back and read all my posts about the Bucs backfield (and Rojo) I've had it largely pegged since then (although I thought Barber would hit 1000 last year, he got 871). Rojo might take a big step forward this year under Brady. But it's going to need to be a big step forward. He's been a big disappointment. 

I specifically say “last year” and you give me his resume from college and 2 years ago? 

not the most effective debate style. So frankly, I know exactly what I’m talking about - you just tried to change the subject to talk about something else. 

anyway, it’s irrelevant at this point, since Fournette is there.  if Fournette gets hurt & RoJo operates as the feature back we can revisit this topic and see, but it’s all moot now with RBBC. 
 

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6 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I specifically say “last year” and you give me his resume from college and 2 years ago? 

not the most effective debate style. So frankly, I know exactly what I’m talking about - you just tried to change the subject to talk about something else. 

anyway, it’s irrelevant at this point, since Fournette is there.  if Fournette gets hurt & RoJo operates as the feature back we can revisit this topic and see, but it’s all moot now with RBBC. 
 

Not my fight but you actually said "last year, or in college".  Take it down a couple notches.

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15 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I specifically say “last year” and you give me his resume from college and 2 years ago? 

not the most effective debate style. So frankly, I know exactly what I’m talking about - you just tried to change the subject to talk about something else. 

anyway, it’s irrelevant at this point, since Fournette is there.  if Fournette gets hurt & RoJo operates as the feature back we can revisit this topic and see, but it’s all moot now with RBBC. 
 

What subject did I change? You said college and last year... so I guess we're talking about 2017 and 2019 but not 2018?

And you'd better believe his first NFL year was relevant. He was terrible in all phases. He drastically improved in year 2 but to the point he's a below average back with still major holes in pass pro and receiving (his vision is still mediocre too).  It's an important data point. 

Everything I said applies to last year. He caught more balls but he was heavily schemed too because his competition was Peyton Barber and Dare, two guys who dream of being JAGs. His route tree is limited, much like Fournettes actually, and keeps his upside severely capped. 

It is of course possible that he drastically improves (Brady could have a big impact). His pass pro still isn't great out of camp, but maybe he becomes an effective enough runner he can put together a strong year based on high volume (assuming Fournette and McCoy don't turn this into a 3-way RBBC). 

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12 minutes ago, btemp said:

It is of course possible that he drastically improves (Brady could have a big impact). His pass pro still isn't great out of camp, but maybe he becomes an effective enough runner he can put together a strong year based on high volume (assuming Fournette and McCoy don't turn this into a 3-way RBBC). 

I don’t see McCoy moving the needle on anyone’s value at this stage of his career. 

Last year a light went on for RoJo - he thoroughly out-played the same Barber you referred to earlier, and took the reins of that job, despite paying behind an OL that couldn’t stop a stiff breeze & with Winston constantly turning it over and generating negative game scripts. 

I watched a lot of his play last year and saw noticeable improvement. He was in better shape than 2018, made more decisive cuts and showed improved vision.

since time moves linearly, it seems like weighing his more recent performance heavier than his rookie season or college career is the logical way to evaluate a player, and he looked like he was primed for a breakout season.

I was not alone in that assessment. But then Fournette became available on the cheap & the Bucs pounced.

if anything it seems like a 2-way RBBC, but we will all have to see some games played before we know what roles are carved out for whom.  With Brady behind center I don’t expect the otherworldly numbers some are giddy about with this passing game, but I do expect him to be a hell of a lot better than 30-pick Winston, which should have a trickle down effect on the RBs. More touched, positive game scripts, run to set up the pass, and likely more RZ/GL opportunities. 

Its possible both these RBs are flex-worthy, it’s possible Fournette takes over & it’s possible RoJo is the early down back & Fournette the James White of TB. 

honestly I have no idea at the moment. As a dynasty RoJo owner I was really hoping to finally see my cheap investment pay off, so I admit to being a little salty, but I feel like you’re being a little dishonest about how RoJo developed last year, despite surrounding circumstances,

fair? 

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Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians said Leonard Fournette will have a "solid role" in Week 1 against the Saints.

Arians continued to note that while Fournette picked up the offense quickly, he "obviously can't do everything," making his role in Week 1 "situational" — short-yardage scenarios, goal line carries, etc. Ronald Jones has been crowned "the guy" among Tampa Bay's backfield on multiple occasions this offseason, but it sounds as if his ceiling as a three-down back has been completely capsized. Fournette has touchdown appeal in Week 1, but fantasy players are really targeting him (and Jones) for the Bucs' cinch schedule from Week 2 on.

DFS Slant:

This RB rotation is too murky to warrant much Week 1 DFS exposure, especially against the Saints' top-five rushing defense.

SOURCE: Pewter Report on Twitter

Sep 8, 2020, 12:42 PM ET

 

 

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Greg Auman @gregauman

"For the first time in my life, I really have a quarterback," Leonard Fournette says of playing with Tom Brady in Tampa.

https://twitter.com/gregauman/status/1303381571303505924?s=21

 

Quote

Greg Auman @gregauman

Fournette said he's excited to have opponents "planning for eight guys and not just one" and will appreciate not having so many defenders in the box on a regular basis.

https://twitter.com/gregauman/status/1303381405683142664?s=21

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He's not wrong though: he's had to suffer from dreadful QB play where he was initially the only threat. The weekly running into brick walls definitely has wore his effectiveness down over time compared to his rookie year.

Edited by The Frankman
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32 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

He's not wrong though: he's had to suffer from dreadful QB play where he was initially the only threat. The weekly running into brick walls definitely has wore his effectiveness down over time compared to his rookie year.

True I'd just rather see him let his play in Tampa do the talking. 

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On 9/3/2020 at 9:56 AM, Milkman said:

FBG is telling everyone this is a 4 headed monster and a situation to avoid but they are forgetting one thing. Lenny wouldn't have signed with Tampa this quick if they hadn't told him he's the man as soon as he's up to speed. He's playing for a huge contract this season. Tampa promised him touches and lots of them. 

Do you have any factual support for this?  Or is this just your hope as a LF owner?

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45 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

No wonder this guy was so beloved in the Jags locker room 

Not a good way to start out on a new team. I don’t think many players respect badmouthing prior teammates publicly. It doesn’t matter if it’s true. A lot of the league goes by the mantra of keep it in the locker room. 

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35 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Why would he sign there so quickly? There was plenty of interest. 

Honest question.  Was there a lot of interest?  Nobody wanted to trade for him at cheap prices and the only two teams I heard linked to him as a FA was Tampa and New England.  He may have looked at the way New England has used their RBs in the past and realized that Tampa was his only real choice to be a bell cow IF he could beat out Jones.  

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10 minutes ago, Boone22 said:

Honest question.  Was there a lot of interest?  Nobody wanted to trade for him at cheap prices and the only two teams I heard linked to him as a FA was Tampa and New England.  He may have looked at the way New England has used their RBs in the past and realized that Tampa was his only real choice to be a bell cow IF he could beat out Jones.  

I'm not getting dragged back into this. No offense to you. You're question is legitimate. Yes there was more interest. You can look into that if you want or you can not believe me. There's really nothing else we all can say at this point. It's time for Fournette to prove the doubters or believers right or wrong. 

The season is one day away!

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14 minutes ago, Boone22 said:

Honest question.  Was there a lot of interest?  Nobody wanted to trade for him at cheap prices and the only two teams I heard linked to him as a FA was Tampa and New England.  He may have looked at the way New England has used their RBs in the past and realized that Tampa was his only real choice to be a bell cow IF he could beat out Jones.  

 

1 minute ago, Milkman said:

I'm not getting dragged back into this. No offense to you. You're question is legitimate. Yes there was more interest. You can look into that if you want or you can not believe me. There's really nothing else we all can say at this point. It's time for Fournette to prove the doubters or believers right or wrong. 

The season is one day away!

It's probably not important to know why he chose TB.  Like Milkman said, we will find out what he is in Tampa.

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1 hour ago, skinsrule05 said:

Not a good way to start out on a new team. I don’t think many players respect badmouthing prior teammates publicly. It doesn’t matter if it’s true. A lot of the league goes by the mantra of keep it in the locker room. 

Badmouthing a team that sees Doug Marrone as a leader? Bad mouthing a team that worked against him to take his signing bonus away. Bad mouthing a team that strung him along and  released him a week before the season starts.   Bad mouthing a team that gives up 2 home games each season?

I agree that he probably should just keep his mouth shut but most probably agree with him and view Jacksonville as a joke of an organization.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Badmouthing a team that sees Doug Marrone as a leader? Bad mouthing a team that worked against him to take his signing bonus away. Bad mouthing a team that strung him along and  released him a week before the season starts.   Bad mouthing a team that gives up 2 home games each season?

I agree that he probably should just keep his mouth shut but most probably agree with him and view Jacksonville as a joke of an organization.

The Jags also bad-mouthed Fournette in a way by saying they couldn't get a 6th or 7th round pick for him.  Shouldn't that also be kept in house or is it only the players that have to keep their mouths shut?

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I think we're all forgetting an important thing here: One can still be right about their comments and also a humongous jerk. It's not like those things are mutually exclusive to each other.

16 hours ago, GoBirds said:

Anyone rolling him out this week? I may need him in my flex. 

Naw I can't roll him out, don't know what his workload is. I have Marvin Jones vs. Bears, Sammy Watkins vs. Texans and Preston Williams @ Patriots I could use over him.

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18 hours ago, Milkman said:

He needs to stop talking and just play. He has a lot to prove. 

Typically I would never say this to any athlete, but this example yeah I kind of agree. Talking smack about your former team's players when they had nothing to do with you getting cut is just dumb.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Badmouthing a team that sees Doug Marrone as a leader? Bad mouthing a team that worked against him to take his signing bonus away. Bad mouthing a team that strung him along and  released him a week before the season starts.   Bad mouthing a team that gives up 2 home games each season?

I agree that he probably should just keep his mouth shut but most probably agree with him and view Jacksonville as a joke of an organization.

The jags are poorly run, no doubt....I mean they spent the 4th overall pick on him in '17.  Who drafts a RB that high anymore?

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Badmouthing a team that sees Doug Marrone as a leader? Bad mouthing a team that worked against him to take his signing bonus away. Bad mouthing a team that strung him along and  released him a week before the season starts.   Bad mouthing a team that gives up 2 home games each season?

I agree that he probably should just keep his mouth shut but most probably agree with him and view Jacksonville as a joke of an organization.

And I think it wouldn’t look as bad to other players if he stuck to these points you made. Badmouthing a prior organization is a lot more tolerable then badmouthing prior players. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

cowboys, giants, panthers, rams....

Cowboys built up their entire offense to pound the rock......CMC is a Swiss army knife, and way more talented than Fournette......and Saquon is a freak.....Gurley on that Rams team, the way it was built up, makes sense, and he flourished, and they ran him into the ground.

But yea, they were high draft picks........

I know Fournette was a freak in college, and I honestly haven't watched much of his college film.....I just don't see it at this level.....even when there's a crease to run thru he runs up the back of his linemen......and maybe it's mostly on the O line and play calling and supporting cast, but I dunno......I think Saquon or CMC put way better numbers in his place.

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6 minutes ago, Manster said:

Cowboys built up their entire offense to pound the rock......CMC is a Swiss army knife, and way more talented than Fournette......and Saquon is a freak.....Gurley on that Rams team, the way it was built up, makes sense, and he flourished, and they ran him into the ground.

But yea, they were high draft picks........

I know Fournette was a freak in college, and I honestly haven't watched much of his college film.....I just don't see it at this level.....even when there's a crease to run thru he runs up the back of his linemen......and maybe it's mostly on the O line and play calling and supporting cast, but I dunno......I think Saquon or CMC put way better numbers in his place.

At the end of the day, they still ran Fournette 300+ times and he was the focal point of that offense.  The Blake Bortles era was ridiculous.  The Nick Foles/Gardner Minshew era wasn't much better.  They jettisoned all of their Pro Bowl defenders away for nothing.  The fact he was willing to play for the team, knowing they were going to wear every ounce of tread off his tires speaks more to me than his words.  

Then you get trashed by the coach about not being able to get a 7th round pick for you?  Good grief.  Jacksonville is a dumpster fire and I am happy to see Fournette play with a team.  I think this is the best possible outcome for him and his fantasy owners.  Looking forward to watching... 

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14 minutes ago, TVT 0 N S T A said:

At the end of the day, they still ran Fournette 300+ times and he was the focal point of that offense.  The Blake Bortles era was ridiculous.  The Nick Foles/Gardner Minshew era wasn't much better.  They jettisoned all of their Pro Bowl defenders away for nothing.  The fact he was willing to play for the team, knowing they were going to wear every ounce of tread off his tires speaks more to me than his words.  

Then you get trashed by the coach about not being able to get a 7th round pick for you?  Good grief.  Jacksonville is a dumpster fire and I am happy to see Fournette play with a team.  I think this is the best possible outcome for him and his fantasy owners.  Looking forward to watching... 

He may very well prove me wrong.  If he does, more power to him.  I am no NFL scout, hell I'm not that great at fantasy speculating half the time!  TB getting TB12 really brought some juice to their franchise.......if he can keep up physically like many are projecting, look out!  

And at a minimum fournette should have more room to run.....I get that 

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1 hour ago, IHEARTFF said:

Typically I would never say this to any athlete, but this example yeah I kind of agree. Talking smack about your former team's players when they had nothing to do with you getting cut is just dumb.

I read that Jax players went to the coach expressing their interests in getting Fournette cut.  So it does look like player(s) played a part in getting Fournette released.  I got a feeling that Minshew was the main voice (maybe the only voice) in this and it might have had something to do with Fournette wanting Jacksonville to sign Cam Newton when he was available.  And with Chris Thompson saying he was “shocked” when Fournette was let go, something just doesn’t add up.   Chris Thompson is so clueless and yet there is almost a player revolt happening

Fournette Wants Cam Newton

This is from another article:

“Players got tired of Leonard Fournette. Some players in that locker room went to the powers that be and said they want him gone. And when the coaching staff already wanted him gone and the front office already tried to get rid of him and now the players come and go they want him out saying ‘he’s not on board with what we’re trying to do, what we’re able to do’ I think that’s when you pull the trigger. Something happened and that is my strong belief and theory of what’s going on right now. This was almost a player revolt.”

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

if he wasnt a total bag, they would have kept him, shown he was heathly and playing decent... then traded him for anything mid-season

I agree, but since Jacksonville has clearly decided to tank this year, they realized  the best chance of getting the 1st pick in the 2021 draft was without Fournette.   Nobody wanted to pay $4 million, plus give a draft pick.  But, once he was a free agent, he got snapped up pretty quick and by a pretty competitive team.  It’s a win for Jacksonville (since they are tanking) and a win for Fournette.  

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IF Brady's body holds up, I see a repeat of prime Leg Blount in NE. Lots of TDs will be had, starting as soon as this weekend.

And if somehow LF adds 40+ catches this season to the above equation, look out. I'm expecting closer to 20-25. For all the talk about Fournette not being a good receiving RB, he caught 76 balls last year. Yeah, context and all that to add color, but that figure is massive in and of itself.

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4 hours ago, Kevrunner said:

I read that Jax players went to the coach expressing their interests in getting Fournette cut.  So it does look like player(s) played a part in getting Fournette released.  I got a feeling that Minshew was the main voice (maybe the only voice) in this and it might have had something to do with Fournette wanting Jacksonville to sign Cam Newton when he was available.  And with Chris Thompson saying he was “shocked” when Fournette was let go, something just doesn’t add up.   Chris Thompson is so clueless and yet there is almost a player revolt happening

Fournette Wants Cam Newton

This is from another article:

“Players got tired of Leonard Fournette. Some players in that locker room went to the powers that be and said they want him gone. And when the coaching staff already wanted him gone and the front office already tried to get rid of him and now the players come and go they want him out saying ‘he’s not on board with what we’re trying to do, what we’re able to do’ I think that’s when you pull the trigger. Something happened and that is my strong belief and theory of what’s going on right now. This was almost a player revolt.”

 

 

 

I hate it when people say "no disrespect" and they go right on disrespectin.

We know Fournette can be polarizing guy.....but he's the face of your team pretty much...so his words and actions matter....what he's really saying is he wants to play with Cam and not minshew.  This is how locker room cancers grow.

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  • Faust changed the title to RB Leonard Fournette, Bucs

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