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Willie Snead (1 Viewer)

hold? hell yes - high reward, low risk .... Colston old, Cooks not all that.... Snead could be a bonafide #1 A.Brown type player next season

or nothing

but it costs little to hold and find out

 
Snead appears to be a key cog in a high volume passing offense that will regularly be in shootouts. And NO is using 3 WR sets enough where Thomas isn't a huge threat to Snead's production. 

These "free" dynasty pickups can round out a team nicely

 
I always find it interesting when "group think" trumps reality then comes crashing back to Earth. 

Snead/Thomas is the perfect example. Thomas the rookie with the size, the hype - Snead the little dude who all the experts said would take a back seat....never mind the trust between a QB and a developed WR, never mind what we saw last year, never mind any of that - the community wanted Thomas to be the man so badly that Snead fell to the 8-11 round range in 12 team leagues. 

I'm not expecting 170+ yards every week, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in the 5-7 reception range weekly with maybe 7-9 TDs and over 1000 yards. Thomas might start to emerge, along with Fleener, but Snead is locked in and it's been clear since last season that Brees trusts him. 

There will be weeks where the Saints remember that Ivory is good and 4.8 YPC is worth using more, but even still, I expect his weekly floor to be WR3, with a ceiling like we just saw from time to time.  

 
maf005 said:
Snead appears to be a key cog in a high volume passing offense that will regularly be in shootouts. And NO is using 3 WR sets enough where Thomas isn't a huge threat to Snead's production. 

These "free" dynasty pickups can round out a team nicely




 
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i think his value should remain pretty constant. at some point, however, Fleener will emerge from his slumber and start to become productive. it's just a matter of time and when that happens it will cut into someone's value. 

 
saintfool said:
i think his value should remain pretty constant. at some point, however, Fleener will emerge from his slumber and start to become productive. it's just a matter of time and when that happens it will cut into someone's value. 
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I don't know why Fleener will emerge.
All of the evidence from training camp through week 1 has been negative so if you expect his production to change, you expect the everything that has happened with Fleener thus far to change.  Sounds much like the talk of Spiller eventually emerging from his slumber.

For Snead I'm considering sending offers out in dynasty leagues where I would give "high potential" but not producing young players, for Snead and hope the owner thinks he is selling high when, although I don't think Snead will get 170 each week, I think Snead can continue to put up impressive numbers in the WR1/2 range

 
Avery said:
I don't know why Fleener will emerge.
All of the evidence from training camp through week 1 has been negative so if you expect his production to change, you expect the everything that has happened with Fleener thus far to change.  Sounds much like the talk of Spiller eventually emerging from his slumber.

For Snead I'm considering sending offers out in dynasty leagues where I would give "high potential" but not producing young players, for Snead and hope the owner thinks he is selling high when, although I don't think Snead will get 170 each week, I think Snead can continue to put up impressive numbers in the WR1/2 range
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To be fair, at least one of the 5 targets for Fleener was a deep pass.

lets say Fleener gets the same 5 targets in week 2, and instead of being 1/5, he's 4/5. That could mean 80+ yds and a TD. 

He was targeted quite a bit in the preseason as well. one could argue that week 1 was the anomaly on Fleener's production. 

And as he develops rapport with Brees and gets the playbook more and more I think it is reasonable to expect improvement. Brees / Saints have a long history of productivity from the TE spot. It's why so many were so high on Fleener. 

Mayne im off, but to me it seems much more likely for Fleener to develop into a weapon than not. 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
To be fair, at least one of the 5 targets for Fleener was a deep pass.

lets say Fleener gets the same 5 targets in week 2, and instead of being 1/5, he's 4/5. That could mean 80+ yds and a TD. 

He was targeted quite a bit in the preseason as well. one could argue that week 1 was the anomaly on Fleener's production. 

And as he develops rapport with Brees and gets the playbook more and more I think it is reasonable to expect improvement. Brees / Saints have a long history of productivity from the TE spot. It's why so many were so high on Fleener. 

Mayne im off, but to me it seems much more likely for Fleener to develop into a weapon than not. 
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He has reportedly not be "getting" the playbook and the offense all pre-season.  His performance week 1 seems to verify that.  

I think you are looking at past TE performance and predicting future success when it can be that role is now being filled by Thomas. Even if Fleener improves, and how can he not, he has a long way to go to make his fantasy, or real NFL, relevant.

 
Avery said:
He has reportedly not be "getting" the playbook and the offense all pre-season.  His performance week 1 seems to verify that.  

I think you are looking at past TE performance and predicting future success when it can be that role is now being filled by Thomas. Even if Fleener improves, and how can he not, he has a long way to go to make his fantasy, or real NFL, relevant.
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Thomas didn't exactly fill up the stat sheet either.

i see them as having the dramatically different roles. 

 
Avery said:
Please expound on their "dramatically different roles". 
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If you don't understand the different roles that a TE and a WR have, I don't have time to explain it to you.

I will add that one is a rookie who's likely to play on fewer snaps, and isn't as involved in the short passing game.

then there's some stuff about blocking, but yeah - football 101 is a different topic title.

 
I

Avery said:
He has reportedly not be "getting" the playbook and the offense all pre-season.  His performance week 1 seems to verify that.  

I think you are looking at past TE performance and predicting future success when it can be that role is now being filled by Thomas. Even if Fleener improves, and how can he not, he has a long way to go to make his fantasy, or real NFL, relevant.




 
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You think Jimmy Graham was especially bright for some reason? Fleener just needs time. Brees, moreso than any other QB, uses the TE position. It's an essential part of the offense and has been for *years*. it's not suddenly going to disappear. 

 
saintfool said:
You think Jimmy Graham was especially bright for some reason? Fleener just needs time. Brees, moreso than any other QB, uses the TE position. It's an essential part of the offense and has been for *years*. it's not suddenly going to disappear. 
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Pretty much my take too. It might take a week or 2, but in addition to the "not getting the playbook" comments, folks seem to disregard the other thing said in that interview, which was "he's had a lot of great moments out there". Why do people focus so hard on the negative and utterly ignore the positive? 

Oh yeah - fantasy football. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
If you don't understand the different roles that a TE and a WR have, I don't have time to explain it to you.

I will add that one is a rookie who's likely to play on fewer snaps, and isn't as involved in the short passing game.

then there's some stuff about blocking, but yeah - football 101 is a different topic title.
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No need to be brusque and dismissive.  It's a genuine question.

In today's NFL, with move TEs and larger WRs the differentiation between the roles of particular positions become a bit more gray.  Did Jimmy Graham perform more like a WR or a TE?  If you ask Jimmy, I know what he would say.

 
saintfool said:
I

You think Jimmy Graham was especially bright for some reason? Fleener just needs time. Brees, moreso than any other QB, uses the TE position. It's an essential part of the offense and has been for *years*. it's not suddenly going to disappear. 
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I have no idea how bright Jimmy Graham is and I'm not sure it's about how smart he is.

Perhaps Brees used the TE position so much previously because they were amongst the top players on the team.  Now with Cooks, Snead and Thomas, maybe they are not.

Fleener may well need more time but to assume that he will start doing well, be an integral piece of this offense, and put up respectable numbers, although completely feasible, would be a reversal of trend of every piece of news and information, from camp through week 1, that we have so far. 

FYI, I have zero skin in this game as I'm neither a Saints fan nor own Snead or Fleener in any league.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Thomas didn't exactly fill up the stat sheet either.

i see them as having the dramatically different roles. 
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Thomas had six target and six receptions and is apparently the apple of Payton's eye.  I don't think either of those things will be lost of Brees.  The news on Thomas, through camp and through week 1, has been all positive.  The opposite trend from Fleener who has been in this offense for the same amount of time Thomas has.

FYI, I have no shares of Thomas either.  

 
Avery said:
No need to be brusque and dismissive.  It's a genuine question.

In today's NFL, with move TEs and larger WRs the differentiation between the roles of particular positions become a bit more gray.  Did Jimmy Graham perform more like a WR or a TE?  If you ask Jimmy, I know what he would say.
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I was being neither - no need to read into my statements more than face value. 

You asked a very broad question - too broad. Now that you've narrowed, I'll answer more specifically: Jimmy Graham was more of a Move TE, which is exactly what they brought in Fleener to be. Just like it's what they used Watson as. 

As I'd mentioned previously, one of the 5 targets for Fleener was a deep pass. That would seems to be a good indicator of how they intend to utilize him. Just because he was 1/5 this week doesn't mean he won't be 4/5 next week.  In fact, next week against the Giants should be telling since NYG is terrible against TEs but with Landon Collins improving the secondary, likely improved against WRs.

If there were ever a week for Fleener to be showcased as the move TE/receiver, it will be this weekend coming up. 

Regardless, the Saints were very clear on what they signed Fleener to be, and that's a receiver. Naturally, he will block on rushing downs. should the saints ever remember that they have Ingram at 4.8 ypc, but he's primarily a receiver in that offense. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I was being neither - no need to read into my statements more than face value. 

You asked a very broad question - too broad. Now that you've narrowed, I'll answer more specifically: Jimmy Graham was more of a Move TE, which is exactly what they brought in Fleener to be. Just like it's what they used Watson as. 

As I'd mentioned previously, one of the 5 targets for Fleener was a deep pass. That would seems to be a good indicator of how they intend to utilize him. Just because he was 1/5 this week doesn't mean he won't be 4/5 next week.  In fact, next week against the Giants should be telling since NYG is terrible against TEs but with Landon Collins improving the secondary, likely improved against WRs.

If there were ever a week for Fleener to be showcased as the move TE/receiver, it will be this weekend coming up. 

Regardless, the Saints were very clear on what they signed Fleener to be, and that's a receiver. Naturally, he will block on rushing downs. should the saints ever remember that they have Ingram at 4.8 ypc, but he's primarily a receiver in that offense. 
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Are you open to the possibility that:

1. Fleener is not as good as the Saints thought he would be?
2. Michael Thomas is better then they thought a rookie WR would be?

If the above are true, could it be that Thomas is going to get more targets than originally planned and Fleener fewer regardless that they play different receiving positions?

Again, I'm not saying Fleener can't do better, but the fact is, the reports through camp haven't been glowing and he did little with his few targets in week 1 meaning a trend in a good direction for Fleener would be, by definition, a reversal of trend.

 
Avery said:
Fleener may well need more time but to assume that he will start doing well, be an integral piece of this offense, and put up respectable numbers, although completely feasible, would be a reversal of trend of every piece of news and information, from camp through week 1, that we have so far. 

FYI, I have zero skin in this game as I'm neither a Saints fan nor own Snead or Fleener in any league.
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That is factually incorrect. 

The Saints targeted him in the preseason as a move TE.  Reports were not overtly negative - they were "mixed", per the coaches themselves. Some great moments, some rough moments. It was speculation by the talking heads at Rotoworld and ESPN that suggested Fleener wasn't getting the playbook. 

You're assuming an awful lot here and calling it fact - it's 1 week of the season. Fleener was targeted deep. Your statement is in error - if Fleener is targeted 5 times and goes 4/5 for 75 yards and a TD this Sunday, it would actually be perfectly in line with every piece of news and information, from camp through week 1, that we have so far. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
That is factually incorrect. 

The Saints targeted him in the preseason as a move TE.  Reports were not overtly negative - they were "mixed", per the coaches themselves. Some great moments, some rough moments. It was speculation by the talking heads at Rotoworld and ESPN that suggested Fleener wasn't getting the playbook. 

You're assuming an awful lot here and calling it fact - it's 1 week of the season. Fleener was targeted deep. Your statement is in error - if Fleener is targeted 5 times and goes 4/5 for 75 yards and a TD this Sunday, it would actually be perfectly in line with every piece of news and information, from camp through week 1, that we have so far. 
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Interesting.  I could be wrong.

I'd love to read the positive pieces and quotes where Fleener was doing well in camp, pre-season or the short season so far because as I remember, and I may have missed some stuff because I'm not a Saints fan and clearly don't follow the team as closely as you, he has been a disappointment so far.

 
Avery said:
Are you open to the possibility that:

1. Fleener is not as good as the Saints thought he would be?
2. Michael Thomas is better then they thought a rookie WR would be?

If the above are true, could it be that Thomas is going to get more targets than originally planned and Fleener fewer regardless that they play different receiving positions?

Again, I'm not saying Fleener can't do better, but the fact is, the reports through camp haven't been glowing and he did little with his few targets in week 1 meaning a trend in a good direction for Fleener would be, by definition, a reversal of trend.
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I'm open to any possible outcome. 

You're the one who's talking like you have the crystal ball in hand. 

How many more times are you going to refer to the 1 report out of camp where Fleener said he wasn't comfortable and Peyton said it was a mixed bag about 1 preseason game? That's you're "trend" - nice sample size. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I'm open to any possible outcome. 

You're the one who's talking like you have the crystal ball in hand. 

How many more times are you going to refer to the 1 report out of camp where Fleener said he wasn't comfortable and Peyton said it was a mixed bag about 1 preseason game? That's you're "trend" - nice sample size. 
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It looks like you that is reading into my posts.  I'm not predicting anything.

If you re-read what I said, I am not discounting the possibility of Fleener doing better in the future.  The only thing I have been saying is that for him to do well going forward would be a reversal of trend that I've seen and read.  

As a fan of the team, if you've seen/heard/read something different that has been a positive trend rather then the negative ones I've heard, once again, I'd love to hear it.

... and yes.  We have a small sample size.  One camp.  One pre-season.  One game.  But that is what we have to go on in fantasy football.  Incomplete information from limited sample sizes.  We can have this discussion after the season but we will all know the answer than so it would be little use to our fantasy teams.

Edit to add: May be my bad.  For some reason I thought you were a Saints fan.  Maybe just a Fleener fan! 

 
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Avery said:
Interesting.  I could be wrong.

I'd love to read the positive pieces and quotes where Fleener was doing well in camp, pre-season or the short season so far because as I remember, and I may have missed some stuff because I'm not a Saints fan and clearly don't follow the team as closely as you, he has been a disappointment so far.
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I'm not a Saints fan either.  I just read a lot about players who seem fantasy relevant, and any move TE in the NOS offense is fantasy relevant. 

I have Brees & Snead on rosters as well as Ingram, so I tend to see a lot of info. 

Here's the quote - the one that made it's way around until finally Fleener himself commented that he "wasn't totally comfortable" 

Quote

Saints coach Sean Payton said Coby Fleener is still a "work in progress."

"I'd say it's an ongoing progression," Payton said. "There's some plays that are real good, and then there's some plays where we've got to be a little bit more detailed and that's something that I know he's got to work on." Despite Fourth-Team Gate last week, Fleener is still clearly the No. 1 tight end in New Orleans, but Payton wants him to both improve as a blocker and clean up some of his routes. Fleener agreed he has work to do, echoing his coach's sentiments by saying his understanding of the new offense is a "work in progress." While there appears to still be some rough edges, Fleener should shine with Drew Brees this season.
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And after the 3rd preseason game, here was the commentary: 

Quote

Coby Fleener caught 1-of-4 targets for four yards in the Saints' third preseason game.

Fleener's final stat line looks poor, but he had a 31-yard grab in heavy traffic negated by a holding call at the line of scrimmage, and made another tough catch only to be clotheslined by a Steelers defender, causing a breakup. The Steeler should have been flagged on the play. Fleener was the Saints' clear-cut first-team tight end. Despite some negative camp reports, Fleener remains a candidate for top-five fantasy stats at the position.
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And in game #1, he was clearly the TE1 on that offense. 

So despite the poor stats, the trend you're identifying isn't accurately stated. There has been good with the bad.  I think it's safe to assume that he could be a significant fantasy contributor this season. It just might take some time.

 
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Avery said:
As a fan of the team, if you've seen/heard/read something different that has been a positive trend rather then the negative ones I've heard, once again, I'd love to hear it.
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Why do you keep projecting that I'm some kind of homer for the Saints? Seems rather ad hominem. 

I'm a Niner fan FFS. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Why do you keep projecting that I'm some kind of homer for the Saints? Seems rather ad hominem. 

I'm a Niner fan FFS. 
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I think it was the colors of your Avatar.  Looks Saints-y.

Yes.  He should be on the field and with their offense, and poor defense, that makes it possible he could do well.  Again, I think the emergence of Thomas and Snead doesn't mean good things Fleener I think you would agree that for a five year vet to need more time to "get it" isn't a good thing.  Not a death knell for his prospects, but nothing to feel real good about. 

 
Rodrigo Duterte said:
I came here for Willie Snead info, not to watch a cat fight over Coby Fleener's preseason.  Christ.
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It is a bit of a tangent off to other parts of the Saints offense, but I thought a (somewhat) interesting conversation and can tie into Snead's production. Sorry for my part in the digression...

 
i traded this guy preseason for a 2017 second rookie pick and i think i'm gonna really regret that.

love his game and thought he looked great on sunday. has the makings of a target and yardage monster this year.

 
bump - what are you guys thinking of Snead with Cooks gone? I'm not sure what to think of him fantasy-wise. I definitely think Ingram, AP, and Kamara are gonna run the ball a lot (mainly catch for Kamara), but someone has to get targets beside Michael Thomas. In some of my mocks I often have to decide between DeVante Parker, Snead, Diggs or Decker, and often find myself skipping Snead and going with Parker. Thoughts?

 
I'm grabbing Snead everywhere I can (hot!).  I'm thinking 75/1000/7 which I'll take all day for a 6th round pick.  I like him and E. Sanders around that spot as safe & productive picks.  There will probably be a few WRs drafted later that will outperform him, but I'm confident in his stat line and will throw darts/take risks elsewhere.

 
pbandy1 said:
bump - what are you guys thinking of Snead with Cooks gone? I'm not sure what to think of him fantasy-wise. I definitely think Ingram, AP, and Kamara are gonna run the ball a lot (mainly catch for Kamara), but someone has to get targets beside Michael Thomas. In some of my mocks I often have to decide between DeVante Parker, Snead, Diggs or Decker, and often find myself skipping Snead and going with Parker. Thoughts?
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No way I take Parker over Snead.  As a Snead Dynasty owner if someone offered me Parker straight up for him I'd reject without a second thought.  Snead has shown he can produce in the NFL and now he's getting a shot to be the #2 in a Brees led offense. I take that over a #2/#3 in a Tannehill led offense any day. 

 
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Boone22 said:
No way I take Parker over Snead.  As a Snead Dynasty owner if someone offered me Parker straight up for him I'd reject without a second thought.  Snead has shown he can produce in the NFL and now he's getting a shot to be the #2 in a Brees led offense. I take that over a #2/#3 in a Tannehill led offense any day. 
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As a Parker owner, would you take Snead straight up? I did a start up a week after the Super Bowl; Parker went 4.1, I drafted Snead at  9.4. If I were offered Parker for Snead, I'd take it.

 
Nero said:
As a Parker owner, would you take Snead straight up? I did a start up a week after the Super Bowl; Parker went 4.1, I drafted Snead at  9.4. If I were offered Parker for Snead, I'd take it.
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You got the likely more productive player 5 rounds later and you want to undo your brillance?  Not sure I get your logic

 
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