Christine Michael Volume 3: Inevitable Greatness Soon Achieved

[ImTheScientist 342]

On 8/19/2016 at 1:51 PM, Milkman said:

50/50 split with C-Mike getting 3rd downs and Rawls getting Red Zone work. If that happens C-Mike with the safer floor and Rawls with the higher ceiling. Neither would be more than RB2's. 

Prosise is going to be the 3rd down back/pass catching back. Rawls will get 15-20 carries and Cmike will get 5-8 carries a game. Rawls is the more powerful runner so I would guess he gets redzone work. Cmike is more of a speed/homerun type guy. You are dreaming (or just don't follow the hawks at all) if you think they split carries and you are dreaming if you think Cmike or Rawls get 3rd down work. Prosise was drafted for that role. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by ImTheScientist

[Milkman 2,348]

24 minutes ago, ImTheScientist said:

Prosise is going to be the 3rd down back/pass catching back. Rawls will get 15-20 carries and Cmike will get 5-8 carries a game. Rawls is the more powerful runner so I would guess he gets redzone work. Cmike is more of a speed/homerun type guy. You are dreaming (or just don't follow the hawks at all) if you think they split carries and you are dreaming if you think Cmike or Rawls get 3rd down work. Prosise was drafted for that role. 

When I posted that Prosise was hurt and they were lining C-mike out wide and giving him 3rd down snaps. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Milkman

[ImTheScientist 342]

Just now, Milkman said:

When I posted that Prosise was hurt and they were lining C-mike our wide and giving him 3rd down snaps. 

Coo.... If Prosise was to be injured I would guess they find a way to stash Zac Brooks on the practice squad and bring him up for 3rd down duty. Brooks isn't worth an add though....neither is Prosise really.

[T.Rex 11]

I just turned down a projected late 1st for him.  Not selling early.  CJ Proise was a late 1st and no way I would swap Michael for CJ. 

I'm of the opinion he's a superior talent to the undrafted Rawls that surprised everyone. Michael has always had the talent a 2nd rd pick  which was Seattles first pick that year.  It also sounds like everyone is routing for him.

Had Rawls been a 1st rd pick I would be concerned as his leash would be long and Seattle would force the issue. I fully expect Michael to outplay Rawls early, he's acclimated to the offense and Rawls coming off an injury it will be hard for him to out perform Michael out of the gate.  I just think you add it all up its doesn't bode well for Rawls. 

The Fantasy community is always late to the show. 

 

 

[Milkman 2,348]

I'd take a future 1st for him in a heartbeat. He does look great though. 

[socrates 569]

6 minutes ago, T.Rex said:

I just turned down a projected late 1st for him.  Not selling early.  CJ Proise was a late 1st and no way I would swap Michael for CJ. 

I'm of the opinion he's a superior talent to the undrafted Rawls that surprised everyone. Michael has always had the talent a 2nd rd pick  which was Seattles first pick that year.  It also sounds like everyone is routing for him.

Had Rawls been a 1st rd pick I would be concerned as his leash would be long and Seattle would force the issue. I fully expect Michael to outplay Rawls early, he's acclimated to the offense and Rawls coming off an injury it will be hard for him to out perform Michael out of the gate.  I just think you add it all up its doesn't bode well for Rawls. 

The Fantasy community is always late to the show. 

 

 

Interesting take, and I know you are not alone in thinking Michael is the superior talent.  I still cannot get over how good Rawls looked last season, though.  While I have been pushing Michael for awhile, even to criticism as recently as three weeks ago, I still believe Rawls emerges at the top here once he is completely healthy.  However, Rawls' value as a RB1 has taken a big hit with the emergence of Michael.  As good as Rawls looked last season, there is also no denying Michael looks like the talented back folks were gushing about a couple seasons ago.  Add the potential of Prosise stealing some third down work, and this is a mess for fantasy owners.  Michael has gone from overrated to underrated to possibly overpriced in a very short period.  As a Michael owner myself, I would have to think very hard about trading him for a late first.  I don't know that there is anyone in the late first of this draft who I feel has Michael's kind of potential, so despite the obvious road block of Rawls, I might be willing to gamble on Michael over the likes of Prosise, Dixon, Washington, Booker, etc, who all have their own roadblocks.

[Ilov80s 29,195]

30 minutes ago, T.Rex said:

I just turned down a projected late 1st for him.  Not selling early.  CJ Proise was a late 1st and no way I would swap Michael for CJ. 

I'm of the opinion he's a superior talent to the undrafted Rawls that surprised everyone. Michael has always had the talent a 2nd rd pick  which was Seattles first pick that year.  It also sounds like everyone is routing for him.

Had Rawls been a 1st rd pick I would be concerned as his leash would be long and Seattle would force the issue. I fully expect Michael to outplay Rawls early, he's acclimated to the offense and Rawls coming off an injury it will be hard for him to out perform Michael out of the gate.  I just think you add it all up its doesn't bode well for Rawls. 

The Fantasy community is always late to the show. 

 

 

I know it's early but most experts think this year was one of the worst fantasy rookie classes ever and next year projects to be one of the best. I would see if that guy still wants to deal. 

[packer_junkie 272]

Just be careful, Michael ran 4 times for 11 yards in the first half. All his success came in the 2nd when the Hawks 1s (including RW) went against the Cowboys backups. The Seattle offensive line has potential to be historically bad. 

[ImTheScientist 342]

1 hour ago, T.Rex said:

I just turned down a projected late 1st for him.  Not selling early.  CJ Proise was a late 1st and no way I would swap Michael for CJ. 

I'm of the opinion he's a superior talent to the undrafted Rawls that surprised everyone. Michael has always had the talent a 2nd rd pick  which was Seattles first pick that year.  It also sounds like everyone is routing for him.

Had Rawls been a 1st rd pick I would be concerned as his leash would be long and Seattle would force the issue. I fully expect Michael to outplay Rawls early, he's acclimated to the offense and Rawls coming off an injury it will be hard for him to out perform Michael out of the gate.  I just think you add it all up its doesn't bode well for Rawls. 

The Fantasy community is always late to the show. 

 

 

Here is the problem with your thought process. Draft slot is meaningless to the Seahawks. Performance is everything and in live NFL action Rawls has been better than CMike. I love me some CMike but I really love me some Rawls. The line is better this year and we haven't seen Rawls behind the improved line. Rawls is also under contract for 3 more years while Cmike is only this year. Rawls isn't the physical athlete Michael is but Rawls has much better instincs/vision and has the run style the Seahawks prefer. Rawls vision/instincs are what makes him the better RB over Michael. I use to think Cmikes crazy athletic talent was all you needed but thats just not true. 

[ImTheScientist 342]

54 minutes ago, packer_junkie said:

Just be careful, Michael ran 4 times for 11 yards in the first half. All his success came in the 2nd when the Hawks 1s (including RW) went against the Cowboys backups. The Seattle offensive line has potential to be historically bad. 

The interior line play has been 100x better than last year. Its actually something locally people are very excited about including local media. The only question mark is left tackle. You are confused or don't know what you are talking about. 

[Ilov80s 29,195]

2 minutes ago, ImTheScientist said:

The interior line play has been 100x better than last year. Its actually something locally people are very excited about including local media. The only question mark is left tackle. You are confused or don't know what you are talking about. 

Well that's good. The line struggled last year and they new people at every spot, none of them inspiring confidence. Great coaching might be paying off. 

[ImTheScientist 342]

Just now, Ilov80s said:

Well that's good. The line struggled last year and they new people at every spot, none of them inspiring confidence. Great coaching might be paying off. 

The three interior guys are 330lbs each and have been getting push against every team they have played thus far. Even with the crap line last year the hawks were one of the top rushing teams in the NFL. That will continue. Pass protection has been much improved as well. I worry about left tackle but they are going with the same philosophy they had the last half of last year in the pass game in that they are focused on getting the ball out fast versus holding the ball.  

[Ilov80s 29,195]

14 minutes ago, ImTheScientist said:

The three interior guys are 330lbs each and have been getting push against every team they have played thus far. Even with the crap line last year the hawks were one of the top rushing teams in the NFL. That will continue. Pass protection has been much improved as well. I worry about left tackle but they are going with the same philosophy they had the last half of last year in the pass game in that they are focused on getting the ball out fast versus holding the ball.  

FWIW, before yesterday PFF had Hawks line as the worst pass blocking unit in preseason. 

[Ilov80s 29,195]

@ImTheScientist thanks for the info, will definitely keep an eye. I didn't see what was so impressive about the run blocking from the  online last night though. They couldn't run the ball on Dallas D.

[ImTheScientist 342]

42 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

FWIW, before yesterday PFF had Hawks line as the worst pass blocking unit in preseason. 

PFF doesn't like them ever. They were way worse last season. 

 

[ImTheScientist 342]

37 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

 

37 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

@ImTheScientist thanks for the info, will definitely keep an eye. I didn't see what was so impressive about the run blocking from the  online last night though. They couldn't run the ball on Dallas D.

Not sure if you saw the game or just checked the stats I don't watch all the preseason with the exception of the hawks and just check stats/highlights on the rest.....either way.... this is pretty accurate about the events.

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/08/morning-seahawks-calmly-dismantle-cowboys-27-17.html 

Read the offensive line column. He is always objective when it comes to the hawks....

[Ilov80s 29,195]

8 minutes ago, ImTheScientist said:

Not sure if you saw the game or just checked the stats I don't watch all the preseason with the exception of the hawks and just check stats/highlights on the rest.....either way.... this is pretty accurate about the events.

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/08/morning-seahawks-calmly-dismantle-cowboys-27-17.html 

Read the offensive line column. He is always objective when it comes to the hawks....

I watched the game. The success rushing came in the 2nd half against the backup defenders. I know he mentions that and he assumes it would have worked just as well against the starting D. I'm not sure we can make that assumption because we saw that when they did try to run against the starting D, it wasn't productive. 

[[icon] 9,554]

13 minutes ago, ImTheScientist said:

 

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/08/morning-seahawks-calmly-dismantle-cowboys-27-17.html 

Read the offensive line column. He is always objective when it comes to the hawks....

Just like you, amirite?! :wink:

[tombonneau 985]

6 hours ago, ImTheScientist said:

Rawls isn't being rushed back. He could have played yesterday but its just preseason. Cmike is now being overdrafted and Rawls is being underdrafted. 

Glad a Hawks homer is seeing the same thing as me. Full disclosure: just drafted Rawls last week as my RB2 in mid-3rd of 14-team dynasty league. I passed on Cmike multiple times as I don't believe in him. 

That said, I'm still trying to see what Cmike owner wants in trade just to hedge my bets. So I'm watching Hawks games on condensed to get a feel for how much I believe in and him and what I'd be willing to give up, and not seeing what Cmike hype is all about. I saw one good run up the middle on 2&forever and one nice outside bounce, but not much beyond that. I mean yeah his performance is a step up for him as he now looks like an NFL RB, but this hype is silly for a guy picking up yards vs backups. He likely will be too valued by current owners to deal for.

Meanwhile, I watched Rawls play last year, and as a Pats fan who has a good friend who is a Hawks homer, I was PISSED that they had their new Lynch. Rawls is legit. He looked the part on the big stage. Unless he never comes back from injury, I have a hard time seeing a healthy Rawls not performing like a RB1 with a shot at top 3. 

[ImTheScientist 342]

4 minutes ago, tombonneau said:

Glad a Hawks homer is seeing the same thing as me. Full disclosure: just drafted Rawls last week as my RB2 in mid-3rd of 14-team dynasty league. I passed on Cmike multiple times as I don't believe in him. 

That said, I'm still trying to see what Cmike owner wants in trade just to hedge my bets. So I'm watching Hawks games on condensed to get a feel for how much I believe in and him and what I'd be willing to give up, and not seeing what Cmike hype is all about. I saw one good run up the middle on 2&forever and one nice outside bounce, but not much beyond that. I mean yeah his performance is a step up for him as he now looks like an NFL RB, but this hype is silly for a guy picking up yards vs backups. He likely will be too valued by current owners to deal for.

Meanwhile, I watched Rawls play last year, and as a Pats fan who has a good friend who is a Hawks homer, I was PISSED that they had their new Lynch. Rawls is legit. He looked the part on the big stage. Unless he never comes back from injury, I have a hard time seeing a healthy Rawls not performing like a RB1 with a shot at top 3. 

At the very worst they split carries week 1 but come week 2 Rawls is the play.

[tombonneau 985]

11 minutes ago, ImTheScientist said:

At the very worst they split carries week 1 but come week 2 Rawls is the play.

That's my read. My guess is all the hype is people who got CM for peanuts in redraft or dynasty convincing themselves they have the golden ticket. 

I mean a healthy this guy is in risk of a 50/50 time share?

Maybe even more impressive than that 69-yard run is the catch on the next highlight play. Corrals a horrible RW ball and then trucks a dude to pick up the first. I don't even know that you take him off that much on third down. He has a ton of great catch & run plays.

[Milkman 2,348]

41 minutes ago, tombonneau said:

That's my read. My guess is all the hype is people who got CM for peanuts in redraft or dynasty convincing themselves they have the golden ticket. 

I mean a healthy this guy is in risk of a 50/50 time share?

Maybe even more impressive than that 69-yard run is the catch on the next highlight play. Corrals a horrible RW ball and then trucks a dude to pick up the first. I don't even know that you take him off that much on third down. He has a ton of great catch & run plays.

Yeah if he was getting the third down work CM would have forced a 50/50 split with that dude. At the time if that comment Prosise hadn't played and CM was getting snaps in that role. 

[az_prof 510]

Rawls has had many years of top ten production? Truth is that he is a guy who has never even had a thousand yard season once. So, to pretend that he is somehow the undisputed stud is really uncritical. In the NFL, it is what have you done for me lately? And he has done nothing. Michael has done a good deal all summer and preseason.

[Buffaloes 2,970]

2 minutes ago, az_prof said:

Michael has done a good deal all summer and preseason.

and to think people thought this guy was done sucking people in last year...this is like a sequel where you know the entire plot, have a feeling it's probably not going to be good, you know how it's going to end, but you go anyway.

[chad in Indy 220]

I am surprised Cmike is getting so much credit. Still think it's more the line playing better and Cmike padding stats against 2nd stringers. I think he runs off-balance and shows no patience to set up blocks.

[STEADYMOBBIN 22 3,982]

" A leopard can't change his stripes "

[Ilov80s 29,195]

7 hours ago, Buffaloes said:

and to think people thought this guy was done sucking people in last year...this is like a sequel where you know the entire plot, have a feeling it's probably not going to be good, you know how it's going to end, but you go anyway.

Coming to a football field near you this fall, it's Halloween 6 starring CMichael Myers

[chad in Indy 220]

5 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

" A leopard can't change his stripes "

That's bc leopards don't have stripes

[ponchsox 622]

I wasn't targeting Rawls but he fell to the 4th in my 12 team standard last night and I grabbed him. An owner took CMike in the 8th and laughed at me telling me he's the new starter, lol. 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22 3,982]

2 hours ago, chad in Indy said:

That's bc leopards don't have stripes

 

[Interseptopus 5,722]

This is the week

 

[JuniorNB 7,258]

Kind of seeing this as a similar situation as the Charles/Ward thing in Kansas City.  Is the starter fully healed?  If not, does he open the door to a timeshare when he is?  Be interesting to see how both situations play out.

[socrates 569]

11 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

Kind of seeing this as a similar situation as the Charles/Ward thing in Kansas City.  Is the starter fully healed?  If not, does he open the door to a timeshare when he is?  Be interesting to see how both situations play out.

Unlike Charles, however, Rawls started the final preseason game, and all indications are that he is a full go for Week #1.  Nevertheless, given Rawls' violent running style and penchant for seeking out contact, it would not be at all surprising to see Rawls sidelined again.  I will be interested to see how Coach Carroll deploys his rushing attack.  He has some uniquely different chess pieces in Rawls, Michael and Prosise.

Edited September 3, 2016 by socrates
Spelling

[Milkman 2,348]

If C-mike outplays Rawls he will get more carries. If Rawls outplays C-mike he will get more carries. That's how Carroll rolls.

[rugcleaner 58]

Fire up the steam engines

 

 

Christine Michael is listed ahead of Thomas Rawls on the Seahawks' initial depth chart.

It cements what coach Pete Carroll hinted Monday. Carroll said the Seahawks still don't want to rush Rawls back from his ankle injury, and that "it's still time to take care of him." He did claim Rawls will be ready to start some time "in the next couple weeks." The reality is, Michael now has an opportunity to run with the job following his monster preseason. Michael is the play for Week 1 against Miami's thin defense.

[SameSongNDance 7,014]

I rewatched Michael's preseason carries and noticed that a lot of his bigger gains in the 3rd preseason game came against 2nd and 3rd stringers. His yardage was much more modest in the first quarter.

Something to keep in mind. I still think he looks good.

Edited September 6, 2016 by SameSongNDance

[Fever in the Funkhouse 47]

More from the quote:

 

Seattle Seahawks RB Thomas Rawls (ankle) won't be rushed, but head coach Pete Carroll wants to run him a lot in Week 1. 'We're just making progress with him,' Carroll said. 'You don't want to rush him. This is his second preseason game in a sense, as far as relative to the other guys. So we'll see how he does. I'd love for him to carry the ball quite a bit in this game, and then we'll know where we stand going into the next week. It's just really bringing him along properly and carefully. We want to make sure we take care of him.'

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

13 minutes ago, Fever in the Funkhouse said:

We want to make sure we take care of him.'

Rawls owners should be thanking Carrol.  Not fretting.

[Milkman 2,348]

49 minutes ago, rugcleaner said:

Fire up the steam engines

 

 

Christine Michael is listed ahead of Thomas Rawls on the Seahawks' initial depth chart.

It cements what coach Pete Carroll hinted Monday. Carroll said the Seahawks still don't want to rush Rawls back from his ankle injury, and that "it's still time to take care of him." He did claim Rawls will be ready to start some time "in the next couple weeks." The reality is, Michael now has an opportunity to run with the job following his monster preseason. Michael is the play for Week 1 against Miami's thin defense.

That's what I would call lost upside for Rawls right there. C-Mike may fail but if he hadn't played as well as he did they would be starting Rawls. 

[JohnnyU 3,934]

On 9/3/2016 at 9:25 AM, Milkman said:

If C-mike outplays Rawls he will get more carries. If Rawls outplays C-mike he will get more carries. That's how Carroll rolls.

Hasn't Christine Michael failed at every opportunity so far in his NFL career and with multiple teams?

[WheelsUp 674]

Yes.

[Milkman 2,348]

41 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Hasn't Christine Michael failed at every opportunity so far in his NFL career and with multiple teams?

Yes but I'm not so sure he was failing on the field running the ball. More failing in the locker room and doing dumb stuff like holding the ball in the wrong hands and not being aware of the down and distance. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Milkman

[JohnnyU 3,934]

3 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Yes but I'm not so sure he was failing on the field running the ball. More failing in the locker room and dowing dumb stuff like holding the ball in the wrong hands and not being aware of the down and distance. 

Sorry to disagree but his failure on the field was clear to see.

[Milkman 2,348]

106 carries for 497 yards is failing?

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

1 minute ago, Milkman said:

106 carries for 497 yards is failing?

That's not the only thing happening on the field. And it could still be failing if he is leaving yards on the field. Like Rawls being almost a full yard more...yet Christine being a wonder-athlete.

[Milkman 2,348]

5 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

That's not the only thing happening on the field. And it could still be failing if he is leaving yards on the field. Like Rawls being almost a full yard more...yet Christine being a wonder-athlete.

Yeah I agree but my point still stands 4.7 ypc is hardly failing even if he could have done a little better. That's what makes this such a hard situation to navigate. Is C-Mike going to lose it as soon as Rawls jumps him on the depth chart? Or is he going to play like he did in the Preseason no matter what and take this job away from Rawls......?

Edited September 6, 2016 by Milkman

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

1 minute ago, Milkman said:

Yeah I agree but my point still stands it's hardly failing. That's what makes this such a hard situation to navigate. Is C-Mike going to lose it as soon as Rawls jumps him on the depth chart? Or is he going to play like he did in the Preseason no matter want and take this job away from Rawls......?

Carrol has been right on the money with what he has said on the situation thus far. We shouldnt be ignorant at this point.

[Milkman 2,348]

3 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Carrol has been right on the money with what he has said on the situation thus far. We shouldnt be ignorant at this point.

I think it's Rawls job to lose as well. I've said as much but I'm discounting CM completely. He has a shot to take this job. Is it likely? No but it's not 0%. I'd put it as high as 20-25%. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Milkman

[rickyg 832]

At this pt I'm thinking this is a very similar situation to what's happening in kc RT now.  We all know Charles is the starter but ware will get some time to showcase his talents until Charles is 100%

same with Rawls and michael.  I think michael has a chance to push this into more of an RBbc though then previously thought.  All depends on what he does week 1.if he shines, Rawls owners will be sharing in their pants and it's a good time to trade for him. 

[EBF 1,924]

I think you need to have both of them if you want to feel secure about locking down the position. I don't pay much mind to the speculation. Rawls is a really good talent and could certainly be the man when healthy. He has a pretty short track record though and is dealing with injury stuff. I personally think Michael is talented enough to make it interesting. For all of his issues, he has always run well when given the opportunity. If he has cleaned up his act and become more mature, that might be all it takes for him to flip the switch from tease to real contributor.