Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Christine Michael Volume 3: Inevitable Greatness Soon Achieved (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter elshagon
- Start date
shadyridr
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think he was insinuating that the idea that Rawls was being held out for a leg bruise sounded like
and that it was likely that Seattle was lying and that the injury was worse that than. And it looks like he was correct.
Tau837
Footballguy
I thought the opposite. I thought he was implying there was no injury, that they just pulled him due to performance and said he got a contusion. If that is what he was implying, it was obviously false.I think he was insinuating that the idea that Rawls was being held out for a leg bruise sounded like
RavenLunatic
Footballguy
floods
Footballguy
What I loved seeing the most out of Michael, what makes me believe he's a different guy than a year ago, is on each of his two touchdowns, while having a career day, he turns and celebrates with his team after he scores. No "look at me" celebrations, but looks like a guy who realized how close he was to being out of the league.
scott46984
Footballguy
As a guy like many who held CMike for parts of past seasons and finally decided to "move on" this year no matter the hype, this one hurts. To all those who hung on, congrats for your patience you're finally being rewarded. For how long we'll see, but for now it's clear he's a good NFL RB based on what we've seen this season.
And just gotta say - for all those who were treating those who saw something in this guy as idiots, it's clear he has talent and is capable. Where it goes who knows, but he definitely has the skills.
And just gotta say - for all those who were treating those who saw something in this guy as idiots, it's clear he has talent and is capable. Where it goes who knows, but he definitely has the skills.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I picked him up a few weeks ago and it's the first time he's ever been on a team of mine. I plug him in this past week and he helps me win a game.
So in my mind, he's kind of like a sure thing. Pick him up, he gets a chance, he delivers. Of course, I follow the boards so I understand I just walked into the only good five minutes of a boring movie and I'm like "Wow, this movie is awesome!" And everybody in the theater is like "Where have you been, dummy?"
Then again, I played the Denver RB carousel with Shanahan plenty of times, so I kind of deserve a good week, right?
So in my mind, he's kind of like a sure thing. Pick him up, he gets a chance, he delivers. Of course, I follow the boards so I understand I just walked into the only good five minutes of a boring movie and I'm like "Wow, this movie is awesome!" And everybody in the theater is like "Where have you been, dummy?"
Then again, I played the Denver RB carousel with Shanahan plenty of times, so I kind of deserve a good week, right?
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Statorama
gangster
Wrigley
Footballguy
My other options are Artis-Payne or Riddick
Both have solid matchups
With a gimpy QB, It'll be the CMac show....riding him all day
jurrassic
Footballguy
Agreed. My concern is with their o-line vs. a Jets front that is 3rd in the league vs. the run, giving up only 71.7 yards per game and has already shut down Gio/Hill, McCoy and Ware. Michael is only averaging 2 receptions so that's not a big part of his game. Best case scenario is probably 70 yards and a td. Though I would probably start him over those other two
Last edited by a moderator:
biju
Footballguy
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Matchup is good and the weather being bad in Seattle may lead to even more touches for Michael this week. Starting him with confidence.
Last edited by a moderator:
Statorama
gangster
rjv
Footballguy
SkippaDaFlippa
Footballguy
Concussion protocol 
JimmyJabroni
Footballguy
Is that why he just got vultured for a TD?Concussion protocol
crap, I need more points from him
what did the hit look like? was it bad?
EBF
Footballguy
Might have dodged a bullet:
Gregg Bell @gbellseattle 9m9 minutes ago Seattle, WA
I'm told RB Christine Michael is OK, after doctors looked at neck, shoulder area earlier this 2nd qtr.#Seahawks
1 reply 14 retweets 27 likes
Jennifer Hale Verified account @JenHale504 23m23 minutes ago Seattle, WA
The@Seahawks Christine Michael clears concussion protocol. He's all smiles now,ready to return to play.
Gregg Bell
I'm told RB Christine Michael is OK, after doctors looked at neck, shoulder area earlier this 2nd qtr.
1 reply 14 retweets 27 likes
Jennifer Hale Verified account
The
dipandglide
Footballguy
There's no way Rawls gets his job back, right?
Hooper31
Footballguy
Of course there is. I won't be surprised in the slightest. If healthy they love Rawls. The big question is if he will be healthy and the same player again.
biju
Footballguy
I know you're on the anti-Michael train Hoop, but I really don't see why. Your "ten cent head" comment has made an appearance many times in this thread (although it might have gone up in value from two cents to ten now). At any rate, I'd love for you to take a fresh look at him and not judge only by past years.
They are certainly different backs: Rawls will run people over just like Marshawn did and people like it. He's also going to get hurt because he's not going to have the same durability as Lynch. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I just don't think Rawls is the answer. Maybe Michael isn't either. This has the feel of how much we just want another Marshawn and aren't going to get it.
Anyway, not trying to create a stink here, just noticing a pattern and I'm wondering if there's something else here...
biju
Footballguy
I should also note, I realize the coaching staff has said how much they love Rawls and his style. But you have to be able to be on the field and stay on the field. They just released Jordan Hill who I'm sure they loved and thought had a ton of talent, but also couldn't remain healthy.
(Side note, once Hill gets healthy I hope they bring him back.)
(Side note, once Hill gets healthy I hope they bring him back.)
Tau837
Footballguy
IMO these situations are not analogous. The Seahawks have better DL depth than RB depth; the Seahawks still have Rubin, Reed, and McDaniel at DT even without Hill, whereas at RB they have a veteran player the Seahawks and other teams released just last year and a couple of unproven rookies. Rawls has the potential to regain the RB1 role, which is arguably a role that is more important to the Seahawks than however you would define Hill's role (i.e., DT1, DT2, rotation DT, whatever).
Hooper31
Footballguy
Understood. I see the stats, but I worry about the attitude. He flashes the immaturity from time to time that makes me cringe. Saw it yesterday twice. Important question. Does character count in an NFL player? I think certainly it does in a successful NFL locker room. Pete Carroll has created a specific environment in Seattle. Any me-first attitudes are going to be unwelcome. I've never sat down and talked to Michael, but would love to. I've never sat down and talked to the coaches and administration in Seattle, but again I would love to. My impression is that they are currently tolerating Michael. I could certainly be wrong about this.
I don't think they are "very" different backs, but agree they are somewhat different. I don't have a problem with the talent of either player, but certainly more suspect of the character behind Michael.
No stink at all. Understand your perspective. If anything I hope Michael continues to flash his talent and win games for Seattle. I worry more about how he will respond when things go poorly, and at some point they will go poorly. How will he respond? Time will tell.
biju
Footballguy
Question about the bolded as I was at the game and didn't see the broadcast... What did he do? The only thing I saw was after he had a big run early he looked as if he was calming down the crowd. Maybe that was one if he was thinking "don't get excited, I do this all the time!" but that wasn't what I was thinking at that moment.Hooper31 said:
The Goose is Loose
Footballguy
Can we reassess Michael's value in dynasty and keeper leagues. What does everyone think he role will be next year? Is he a buy, sell, hold at this point. Personally I worry about his role with Rawls and Prosise in the mix now. Thoughts?
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Anyone else looking to trade him in redraft (2 keepers) after this week? ROS looks like a bunch of good run defenses and with Rawls possibly coming back, I feel like you could get some good value selling him after a big game (hopefully) against the Saints.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
The haters shut down the original Christine Michael thread. They have mostly disappeared this year in the Volume 2 thread, but clearly there are a few leftovers that can't help themselves. People are allowed to change their mind and be wrong, but will they? Before this year, the below is how Michael performed. There was nothing stopping him from being a top 5 NFL RB besides the lack of opportunity. Maybe this is his own fault, but in the end, no one can deny this guys talent.
2013 - 4.4 YPC
2014 - 5.1 YPC
2015 - 4.5 YPC
Michael has greatly outplayed Rawls this year. The talent has officially shined through, not just to the Seahawks, but the the rest of the league. The Seahawks are not going to hinge their wagon to Rawls at the end of the season. They have a goal to win the Super Bowl and that means you play the hot hand, not the guy without "the 10 cent head" or the guy you think they "like" better. That is not how the NFL works. Just before breaking his leg, Rawls had 7 carries for -7 yards in game 2. Maybe he did not prepare enough in the off-season. Maybe he is the one with a "10 cent head" right now. Whatever it is, the best running back on the Seahawks roster this year is Christine Michael.
I personally disagree with the "10 cent head" label. This is not to say he is a likeable guy, but I don't see him on this list. This only comes into play when you have a "1 cent head" like Aldon Smith, Manziel, Josh Brown or Josh Gordon. If your off-field actions affect your day job in the NFL, then you do not deserve an opportunity. This has no correlation to Christine Michael. He has just not been given the necessary opportunities until this year.
Michael is on track for 1,300 all purpose yards and 13 TD's. This is with Rawls being the week 1 and week 2 starter. He is the 4th most expensive buy in Yahoo's weekly fantasy plays at $32. At age 25 he is on a one year contract, so he is a free agent next season. I doubt he is back with the Seahawks and has earned himself a decent contract on a needy team. If he lands on a team that wants to actually hand him the ball, he will live up to the expectations many of us have had for years.
btemp
Footballguy
Are you serious or is this some epic trolling?
Michael was clearly not recovered from his injury and having a downstream 2nd injury is completely common. And that was a serious ankle injury.
Based on the tape, Rawls is clearly a better back. Michael is a great athlete but limited as an RB which is why the Seahawks are excited to have Michael back.
The only way this isn't the Thomas Rawls Show is if he can't recover from his injuries. But if he's back he deserves to be the clear no. 1 RB.
Michael was clearly not recovered from his injury and having a downstream 2nd injury is completely common. And that was a serious ankle injury.
Based on the tape, Rawls is clearly a better back. Michael is a great athlete but limited as an RB which is why the Seahawks are excited to have Michael back.
The only way this isn't the Thomas Rawls Show is if he can't recover from his injuries. But if he's back he deserves to be the clear no. 1 RB.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Are you in the Rawls thread or in the Cristine Michael thread? Michael will continue to perform this year and, at BEST, Rawls will eat into Michael's carries late in the season. I know you feel his 7 carries for -7 yards should earn him an automatic start when his leg heals because you own him on your fantasy team, but as I said in my post above, that is not how the NFL works.
The good news is that there is half the season left to play and coaches make the decision, not you or me. Just sit back, relax, keep Rawls on your bench and watch Michael run.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
That wouldn't worry you? I see you pointing at 7 for -7. Do you really think that is a fair assessment of Rawls' talent?
1. What about his lifetime ypc?
2. What about the fact that he was named starter again when he came back from injury to start the year (what has changed to make you think this won't be the case again when he comes back 2nd time?)
3. What about his production last year? You feel the need to tout Michaels last 3 years ypc avg (with so few carries it is meaningless) and yet choose to omit Rawls vastly superior production in 2015, just last year? Why?
4. The poster didn't ask who was better, they just asked should I be worried as a Michael owner. Your response above even admits there are scenarios to worry about, where Rawls will eat into Michael's carries ... getting less than he is now.
Let's take a step back and compare two lifetime stats. Which one looks better?
Guy A: Rushing: 166 carries, 855 yards (5.2 avg) 4 TDs Receiving: 15 rec, 117 yards 7.8 avg 1 TD (1 fumble)
Guy B: Rushing: 203 carries, 903 yards (4.4 avg) 4 TDs Receiving: 22 rec, 118 yards 5.4 avg 1 TD (3 fumbles)
If I was guy A starting and guy B was returning I would not be as worried as if I was guy B and guy A was returning (also knowing guy A was the starter before injury). I also wouldn't be as comfy as Guy B knowing I was already released once from the team that I am playing for and Guy A already surpassed me on the depth chart once and I was released in the same year while I am now under a 1 yr contract where the team could care less about making me happy long term.
You can point to Rawls' 19 carries in 2016 all you want if it makes you sleep at night, but do you really think the team forgot his epic 2015 performance of 5.6 ypc as a starter just last year? If they forgot, why did they pretty much hand the job back to Rawls the first go around? What about Christine's 2016 season as a starter (with a lower 4.2 ypc as compared to his lifetime 4.4 ypc as a backup, spot starter) makes you feel Christine Michael owners should not worry? You use Rawls' 7 for -7 when he went down to injury as your proof that he sux and don't even mention what he did for Sea last year? There is no hate. Take the names away and help explain how Guy B is better than Guy A in ANY meaningful category during their body of work and I'll listen. After waling through this ... I have actually changed my position. Realistically the only chance Michael has of keeping the job he has now is if Rawls isn't right again and remains unhealthy, which is the very reason he is even getting starter snaps in the first place, because Rawls has been unhealthy since his 2015 injury that ended his season.
So let's just say, "If a healthy Rawls is back and anywhere near 100% you shouldn't be any more worried than the last glazed crispy at a Jenny freakin Craig convention."
gethugefast1
Footballguy
Here's to wishful hoping it's not a RBBC when Rawls comes back...mnmplayer said:
CWoke & Rawls owner
Touchdown There
Footballguy
First, let's clear something up. This is the Cristine Michael thread. If you want to support Rawls, go to the Rawls thread. Do you see the irony in asking someone who believes in Christine Michael's talent and makes a pro-Michael post in the Christine Michael thread if they are "trolling"? The troll is the person who is intentionally stirring up conflict in the wrong location. Paid HIllary trolls in the Trump Reddit. Pro-life supporters in front of the clinics. This begs the question, why are you in here trolling? Why did the original Michael thread get locked?
So you want to talk about tape. Who watches more tape, you or the Seahawks paid scouts? Rawls went undrafted, Michael was drafted in round 2 (pick 62). So, on tape, the Seahawks paid professional staff value Michael's collegiate production and talent much, much greater than they ever did Rawls. I have already posted Michael's YPC over the years. Rawls was better last year because of his situation, but just like 1 <> 2, 2015 <> 2016.
You have Rawls on your fantasy team and a 2015 vision of Rawls in your head. This is 2016 and there is a long list of undrafted free agents who had one good year. The real kicker is that you think a guy who just broke his fibula is going to jump right back in at #1. Here is how it actually works. For the last 6 weeks, Rawls has had his cast from his knee all the way down to his toes. This means he was not running or doing any lower body weight room work leading to muscle atrophy. The tendons have tightened. His feet, ankles, calves and quads are all weak sauce. It will take at least 2 weeks from cast removal to walk in a balanced way and no longer overcompensation to the leg that was not broken. In 4 weeks he might have the leg strength of an average person. From there you have to add in time for the athlete to get to an NFL level of strength and conditioning, because if he is not at that level you can be absolutely assured the leg weakness and mental hesitation will lead to a low YPC.
So are you buying Pete's comment on Rawls being back in a few weeks and then making the incorrect assumption that he is rolling straight into the #1 RB slot. Please do put him in your starting lineup that week.
Christine Michael's tape speaks for itself at both the NFL and collegiate level. He is the better talent. Take a few minutes and Google the articles on Michael's re-awakening this year and the articles about him looking "shot out of a cannon".
Many different scenarios can play out this year. The most likely of which is that Rawls is threatened by Michael's production and tries to come back early on a weak leg. This will lead to a drastic YPC difference between Michael and Rawls and he risks losing the job permanently. The smart play is to come back after 5-6 weeks of strength and conditioning and hoping the coaches like you enough to put you back as the starter. In this scenario, he will look much better on the field into the playoffs and regaining the lead role next year. A third, and not small possibility is that his leg is re-injured.
If any pro-Rawls troll in the wrong thread want to put their money where there mouth is, just PM me for a friendly wager. When Rawls comes back, he will have a lower YPC than Michael for the remainder of the year. Let's end the back and forth with a friendly and then just let the season play out.
So you want to talk about tape. Who watches more tape, you or the Seahawks paid scouts? Rawls went undrafted, Michael was drafted in round 2 (pick 62). So, on tape, the Seahawks paid professional staff value Michael's collegiate production and talent much, much greater than they ever did Rawls. I have already posted Michael's YPC over the years. Rawls was better last year because of his situation, but just like 1 <> 2, 2015 <> 2016.
You have Rawls on your fantasy team and a 2015 vision of Rawls in your head. This is 2016 and there is a long list of undrafted free agents who had one good year. The real kicker is that you think a guy who just broke his fibula is going to jump right back in at #1. Here is how it actually works. For the last 6 weeks, Rawls has had his cast from his knee all the way down to his toes. This means he was not running or doing any lower body weight room work leading to muscle atrophy. The tendons have tightened. His feet, ankles, calves and quads are all weak sauce. It will take at least 2 weeks from cast removal to walk in a balanced way and no longer overcompensation to the leg that was not broken. In 4 weeks he might have the leg strength of an average person. From there you have to add in time for the athlete to get to an NFL level of strength and conditioning, because if he is not at that level you can be absolutely assured the leg weakness and mental hesitation will lead to a low YPC.
So are you buying Pete's comment on Rawls being back in a few weeks and then making the incorrect assumption that he is rolling straight into the #1 RB slot. Please do put him in your starting lineup that week.
Christine Michael's tape speaks for itself at both the NFL and collegiate level. He is the better talent. Take a few minutes and Google the articles on Michael's re-awakening this year and the articles about him looking "shot out of a cannon".
Many different scenarios can play out this year. The most likely of which is that Rawls is threatened by Michael's production and tries to come back early on a weak leg. This will lead to a drastic YPC difference between Michael and Rawls and he risks losing the job permanently. The smart play is to come back after 5-6 weeks of strength and conditioning and hoping the coaches like you enough to put you back as the starter. In this scenario, he will look much better on the field into the playoffs and regaining the lead role next year. A third, and not small possibility is that his leg is re-injured.
If any pro-Rawls troll in the wrong thread want to put their money where there mouth is, just PM me for a friendly wager. When Rawls comes back, he will have a lower YPC than Michael for the remainder of the year. Let's end the back and forth with a friendly and then just let the season play out.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
@Touchdown There I think you need to relax buddy.
This means nothing, especially to the Seahawks. That organization starts more undrafted/late round guys that any other team in the league. Where they were drafted means nothing to them, and rightfully so.
Are you referencing some article on this injury or specific knowledge about it?
He has looked explosive. But what good is exploding if you're doing so into the backs of your OL or into defenders because you don't have the vision and patience to be an effective RB? Look at Le'Veon Bell. He's the best back in the league. When is the last time someone said he was explosive?
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
You realize that despite those nice YPCs, the Seahawks released him previously, right? And that he went to DAL and made no impact there, despite their best RB being Darren McFadden? Or that he started the season as the #2 guy behind Rawls, despite the team apparently loving Michael so much?Touchdown There said:
I get it, you're a CMike fan. That's fine. But you are attacking people because they don't agree with your opinion. And that's exactly what it is, an opinion. You're presenting your posts as if they are facts and they are not. You have no idea what Carroll is going to do, only a belief/guess/suspicion, whatever you like to call it.
Nobody is going to dispute that Rawls didn't look good early this season. But he was also coming back from injury. Maybe he doesn't ever get 100% this year and CMike takes the job. But you keep referencing this talent of CMike's and just like with my other post, where is his vision? It's really lacking. He's an athletic talent, but there are a lot of them in this league.
So you say they play the hot hand. How do you know that Carroll is happy with CMike's production? He has good box scores and all that, but how do you know that there aren't a lot of runs/holes/lanes that he's missing when they're reviewing the tape? Because if they were so happy with him, I don't see why he'd make that comment about Rawls.