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Becoming an Actuary (1 Viewer)

oldmanhawkins

oldmanhawkins

Footballguy
I've been teaching high school for a little over a decade and I think its finally time to call it quits. There is a lot to love about the profession - but lately the things that are beyond my control have become impossible to ignore. The biggest issue is that the parts about the job that I love seem to be getting marginalized. Also, I'm physically and mentally spent at the end of the day. I have absolutely no patience left to deal with my own kids (2 and 6).

So I've been poking around at soa.org, working through the practice tests and trying to get a sense of what life as an actuary would be like. I signed up for Exam P as most of that content is familiar. I was planning on giving myself a few months after that to study, then taking the FM exam.

I suspect there are quite a few of you out there with some experience in this field. Any advice? How difficult is it to find a job in the Philly area? What is a realistic starting salary? I know it will be very different from my 7:30-2:40 workday but will I still be bringing work home most nights? Since career advancement comes from studying/passing exams, is that doable with little ones at home?

 
Good luck taking exams with little ones. I've stopped at ASA. My company is hiring in the philly area if you're ever serious about this.

Pass a ton of exams and network. The demand for good actuaries is high but the supply in recent years has increased dramatically as a lot of colleges give actuarial courses. Kids come out of school with a bunch of exams and no experience.

 
Rich Conway said:
Does your district offer pensions after 20+ years? Seems like you might regret giving that away.
Click to expand...
Usually 30 minimum. I could regret for a number of reasons so I'm trying not to rush anything. Taking the exams at least will give me an idea if this is something I'm cut out for. Maybe a summer internship to see if it something I'd semi-enjoy.

 
oldmanhawkins said:
Rich Conway said:
Does your district offer pensions after 20+ years? Seems like you might regret giving that away.
Click to expand...
Usually 30 minimum. I could regret for a number of reasons so I'm trying not to rush anything. Taking the exams at least will give me an idea if this is something I'm cut out for. Maybe a summer internship to see if it something I'd semi-enjoy.
Click to expand...
Hmm... I thought most districts start eligibility at 20 years, and the percentage goes up until 30 years of service.

 
shadyridr said:
Good luck taking exams with little ones. I've stopped at ASA. My company is hiring in the philly area if you're ever serious about this.

Pass a ton of exams and network. The demand for good actuaries is high but the supply in recent years has increased dramatically as a lot of colleges give actuarial courses. Kids come out of school with a bunch of exams and no experience.
Click to expand...
Thanks shady. What company do you work for? Anything else I can do (besides getting job experience) that might make me more attractive to a company? I'm good with excel but are there other programs I should know? Programming skills?

 
oldmanhawkins said:
shadyridr said:
Good luck taking exams with little ones. I've stopped at ASA. My company is hiring in the philly area if you're ever serious about this.

Pass a ton of exams and network. The demand for good actuaries is high but the supply in recent years has increased dramatically as a lot of colleges give actuarial courses. Kids come out of school with a bunch of exams and no experience.
Click to expand...
Thanks shady. What company do you work for? Anything else I can do (besides getting job experience) that might make me more attractive to a company? I'm good with excel but are there other programs I should know? Programming skills?
Click to expand...
yes companies would pay out the ### for good actuaries who can also program. VBA and especially SQL expertise would put you in high demand. My company can't find anyone like me with my blend of actuarial and programming background.Id rather not day where I work but it's a very large insurance carrier.

 
shadyridr said:
Are you good at math and analysis? Then you'd enjoy it. Cigna is headquartered in philly.
Click to expand...
My degrees are in mathematics and I teach stat so that makes all the conditional probability stuff a breeze. While I've always been interested in finance I don't have any formal training in that area.

 
Of course not. Also there is a pretty active actuarial message board out there as well. I used to post there a long time ago. I forgot the site though. Try actuarial outpost

 
shadyridr said:
oldmanhawkins said:
shadyridr said:
Good luck taking exams with little ones. I've stopped at ASA. My company is hiring in the philly area if you're ever serious about this.

Pass a ton of exams and network. The demand for good actuaries is high but the supply in recent years has increased dramatically as a lot of colleges give actuarial courses. Kids come out of school with a bunch of exams and no experience.
Click to expand...
Thanks shady. What company do you work for? Anything else I can do (besides getting job experience) that might make me more attractive to a company? I'm good with excel but are there other programs I should know? Programming skills?
Click to expand...
yes companies would pay out the ### for good actuaries who can also program. VBA and especially SQL expertise would put you in high demand. My company can't find anyone like me with my blend of actuarial and programming background.Id rather not day where I work but it's a very large insurance carrier.
Click to expand...
Sounds like I should brush up on math.

I was this close to going the actuary route

 
23 years ago I had one foot in teaching and another in actuarial work. I lasted 5 months at an insurance company as an analyst, passed one exam, but found it too isolating. Spent all my time on a computer. I discovered teaching at a private school fit me perfectly except for the laughable pay. You might consider it. Been loving it for 23 years.

As for the actuarial work, a lot of it was interesting and the company would have paid for my coursework and exams. Get in somewhere ASAP to build connections and to get their free ride. Maybe you will discover if it is or is not for you quickly.

 
shadyridr said:
Are you good at math and analysis? Then you'd enjoy it. Cigna is headquartered in philly.
Click to expand...
Also, Bridgewater, NJ, is the center of the MetLife universe where actuaries are concerned. They must have hundreds on staff there.
 
shadyridr said:
oldmanhawkins said:
shadyridr said:
Good luck taking exams with little ones. I've stopped at ASA. My company is hiring in the philly area if you're ever serious about this.

Pass a ton of exams and network. The demand for good actuaries is high but the supply in recent years has increased dramatically as a lot of colleges give actuarial courses. Kids come out of school with a bunch of exams and no experience.
Click to expand...
Thanks shady. What company do you work for? Anything else I can do (besides getting job experience) that might make me more attractive to a company? I'm good with excel but are there other programs I should know? Programming skills?
Click to expand...
yes companies would pay out the ### for good actuaries who can also program. VBA and especially SQL expertise would put you in high demand. My company can't find anyone like me with my blend of actuarial and programming background.Id rather not day where I work but it's a very large insurance carrier.
Click to expand...
And rightly so imo. Coming from the underwriting side of things, I'd say an actuary who can program is a great resource to have around.
 
My wife has been an actuary since 2007. She finished up her master's in stats the previous year, and hadn't passed any tests yet. Starting salary at age 25 in NJ for her was $50k. She passed the first test a few months later, then went a little different route for awhile. She didn't take the tests, instead she put in more "billable hours" than her counterparts. Not sure how many more it was.

Earlier this year, she finally took and passed the second exam. I think they give like $1500 - $2500 raises for each exam passed, and there are like 10 or so. She'll make around $80k next year, and gets about a 10% annual bonus (but supposedly her company doesn't pay well within the industry, so I don't know what others would/could make). She claims there's stress, but that's just how she is. Seems like a pretty good job, with a nearly automatic six figure income if you pass the tests.

ETA: I had to lay out a weekly schedule for her to study for the tests. We have very active social calendars, so studying for these things is serious business if you want to pass on the first try. She actually failed the second test, I think twice, back in the day. That frustrated her to the point that she went the extra hours route. With kids at home, it can be done. But you will want to make sure you have a wife who understands that your time to study is your time to study, not to be distracted every two seconds.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Another option to consider is as an actuarial consultant. Some consulting firms do research/evaluation of state and/or federal programs (like Medicare, Medicaid, DoD health care, etc.) that requires actuarial analysis. Passing exams would still be necessary, and programming/computer skills definitely a plus. More variety in type of work you would do compared to an insurance company. Lot of firms located in the DC area, some have branches across the country. Smaller firms probably scattered around the country, maybe concentrated near state capitols.

 
Michael Brown said:
My wife has been an actuary since 2007. She finished up her master's in stats the previous year, and hadn't passed any tests yet. Starting salary at age 25 in NJ for her was $50k. She passed the first test a few months later, then went a little different route for awhile. She didn't take the tests, instead she put in more "billable hours" than her counterparts. Not sure how many more it was.

Earlier this year, she finally took and passed the second exam. I think they give like $1500 - $2500 raises for each exam passed, and there are like 10 or so. She'll make around $80k next year, and gets about a 10% annual bonus (but supposedly her company doesn't pay well within the industry, so I don't know what others would/could make). She claims there's stress, but that's just how she is. Seems like a pretty good job, with a nearly automatic six figure income if you pass the tests.

ETA: I had to lay out a weekly schedule for her to study for the tests. We have very active social calendars, so studying for these things is serious business if you want to pass on the first try. She actually failed the second test, I think twice, back in the day. That frustrated her to the point that she went the extra hours route. With kids at home, it can be done. But you will want to make sure you have a wife who understands that your time to study is your time to study, not to be distracted every two seconds.
Click to expand...
Your wife is in consulting. I am in insurance. They are two completely different animals. Consulting actuaries work a #### ton of hours and there is less emphasis on exams. I work less hours but hard to advance without the exams. I could never survive as a consulting actuary.

 
oldmanhawkins said:
I've been teaching high school for a little over a decade and I think its finally time to call it quits. There is a lot to love about the profession - but lately the things that are beyond my control have become impossible to ignore. The biggest issue is that the parts about the job that I love seem to be getting marginalized. Also, I'm physically and mentally spent at the end of the day. I have absolutely no patience left to deal with my own kids (2 and 6).

So I've been poking around at soa.org, working through the practice tests and trying to get a sense of what life as an actuary would be like. I signed up for Exam P as most of that content is familiar. I was planning on giving myself a few months after that to study, then taking the FM exam.

I suspect there are quite a few of you out there with some experience in this field. Any advice? How difficult is it to find a job in the Philly area? What is a realistic starting salary? I know it will be very different from my 7:30-2:40 workday but will I still be bringing work home most nights? Since career advancement comes from studying/passing exams, is that doable with little ones at home?
Click to expand...
I am going to be brutally honest and say if you are mentally exhausted after a 7 hour day, the actuarial profession is not for you. The upper exams (if you have a solid math background you probably can get past the first ones easily) are not easy. They typically require over 300 hours at the minimum for a reasonable shot to pass. You basically have a full 8-9 work day and then have to spend another 2 hours a night studying. Most companies do offer company paid study time (approx 100 hours per exam), but work comes first.

 
tjnc09 said:
oldmanhawkins said:
I've been teaching high school for a little over a decade and I think its finally time to call it quits. There is a lot to love about the profession - but lately the things that are beyond my control have become impossible to ignore. The biggest issue is that the parts about the job that I love seem to be getting marginalized. Also, I'm physically and mentally spent at the end of the day. I have absolutely no patience left to deal with my own kids (2 and 6).

So I've been poking around at soa.org, working through the practice tests and trying to get a sense of what life as an actuary would be like. I signed up for Exam P as most of that content is familiar. I was planning on giving myself a few months after that to study, then taking the FM exam.

I suspect there are quite a few of you out there with some experience in this field. Any advice? How difficult is it to find a job in the Philly area? What is a realistic starting salary? I know it will be very different from my 7:30-2:40 workday but will I still be bringing work home most nights? Since career advancement comes from studying/passing exams, is that doable with little ones at home?
Click to expand...
I am going to be brutally honest and say if you are mentally exhausted after a 7 hour day, the actuarial profession is not for you. The upper exams (if you have a solid math background you probably can get past the first ones easily) are not easy. They typically require over 300 hours at the minimum for a reasonable shot to pass. You basically have a full 8-9 work day and then have to spend another 2 hours a night studying. Most companies do offer company paid study time (approx 100 hours per exam), but work comes first.
Click to expand...
I agree with the bolded but as a former HS teacher I can certainly understand being exhausted at the end of a 7 hour day. Totally different skillsets between data analysis and teaching/classroom management. Totally different.

 
QuizGuy66 said:
Psychopav said:
shadyridr said:
Are you good at math and analysis? Then you'd enjoy it. Cigna is headquartered in philly.
Click to expand...
Also, Bridgewater, NJ, is the center of the MetLife universe where actuaries are concerned. They must have hundreds on staff there.
Click to expand...
Don't forget the Rock in Newark.

I'm a recovery actuary. That's quite a while ago now.

-QG
Click to expand...
Funny, I was just about to post this. Not sure how far Philly is from Newark.

And Hartford is in...well, Hartford.

 
Having worked at both professions, teaching and actuarial work (albeit for a short period of time), the level of exhaustion with respect to teaching is off the charts compared with working as an actuarial analyst at an insurance company. Sure, I worked hard all day at a computer and did some programming, etc. But after my day was over, my day was over, and I didn't have kids on me 24/7. I'm not saying that actuary work is easy but I am saying that the wear and tear of teaching is really tough to grasp until you've lived it. Not looking for sympathy, it's just the truth.

 
pecorino said:
Having worked at both professions, teaching and actuarial work (albeit for a short period of time), the level of exhaustion with respect to teaching is off the charts compared with working as an actuarial analyst at an insurance company. Sure, I worked hard all day at a computer and did some programming, etc. But after my day was over, my day was over, and I didn't have kids on me 24/7. I'm not saying that actuary work is easy but I am saying that the wear and tear of teaching is really tough to grasp until you've lived it. Not looking for sympathy, it's just the truth.
Click to expand...
24/7? Teachers are off four months out of the year.

 
tjnc09 said:
pecorino said:
Having worked at both professions, teaching and actuarial work (albeit for a short period of time), the level of exhaustion with respect to teaching is off the charts compared with working as an actuarial analyst at an insurance company. Sure, I worked hard all day at a computer and did some programming, etc. But after my day was over, my day was over, and I didn't have kids on me 24/7. I'm not saying that actuary work is easy but I am saying that the wear and tear of teaching is really tough to grasp until you've lived it. Not looking for sympathy, it's just the truth.
Click to expand...
24/7? Teachers are off four months out of the year.
Click to expand...
Many teachers find seaonsal employment over the summer to supplement their incomes, or take courses to advance their hours to improve their incomes.

 
Psychopav said:
tjnc09 said:
pecorino said:
Having worked at both professions, teaching and actuarial work (albeit for a short period of time), the level of exhaustion with respect to teaching is off the charts compared with working as an actuarial analyst at an insurance company. Sure, I worked hard all day at a computer and did some programming, etc. But after my day was over, my day was over, and I didn't have kids on me 24/7. I'm not saying that actuary work is easy but I am saying that the wear and tear of teaching is really tough to grasp until you've lived it. Not looking for sympathy, it's just the truth.
Click to expand...
24/7? Teachers are off four months out of the year.
Click to expand...
Many teachers find seaonsal employment over the summer to supplement their incomes, or take courses to advance their hours to improve their incomes.
Click to expand...
Having the freedom to choose a side job or education is substantially different than an actuarial job that dictates your life and vacation time.

I have nothing but respect for teachers who understand the importance of their job, but to say that profession is more exhausting than a full time job + 700-800 hours of studying a year is beyond silly.

 
OP, if you really want to pursue the career I highly suggest you plow through as many exams as possible while working as a teacher before switching careers. Hiring is very dependent on number of exams passed and you will already be at a disadvantage because of your late start. You have a great opportunity because of the time off teachers are given. Working a full time job, studying and having young children will be a huge commitment that I am not sure you are ready to take on. You are competing on exams against a lot of kids who are in school with tons of extra time to study.

There are certainly advantages to the career. The money is very good if you excel at taking exams.

 
pecorino said:
23 years ago I had one foot in teaching and another in actuarial work. I lasted 5 months at an insurance company as an analyst, passed one exam, but found it too isolating. Spent all my time on a computer. I discovered teaching at a private school fit me perfectly except for the laughable pay. You might consider it. Been loving it for 23 years.

As for the actuarial work, a lot of it was interesting and the company would have paid for my coursework and exams. Get in somewhere ASAP to build connections and to get their free ride. Maybe you will discover if it is or is not for you quickly.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I teach twice a week at a small private school after regular school hours and I understand what you mean about the stark differences between public and private from the teachers perspective. At the private school I need to plan lessons and teach them. Takes about 6 hours total of my time each week (for one course). At the public school I have dozens of other things that I have to do and I end up spending about 60 hours each week on 5 courses.

 
tjnc09 said:
Psychopav said:
tjnc09 said:
pecorino said:
Having worked at both professions, teaching and actuarial work (albeit for a short period of time), the level of exhaustion with respect to teaching is off the charts compared with working as an actuarial analyst at an insurance company. Sure, I worked hard all day at a computer and did some programming, etc. But after my day was over, my day was over, and I didn't have kids on me 24/7. I'm not saying that actuary work is easy but I am saying that the wear and tear of teaching is really tough to grasp until you've lived it. Not looking for sympathy, it's just the truth.
Click to expand...
24/7? Teachers are off four months out of the year.
Click to expand...
Many teachers find seaonsal employment over the summer to supplement their incomes, or take courses to advance their hours to improve their incomes.
Click to expand...
Having the freedom to choose a side job or education is substantially different than an actuarial job that dictates your life and vacation time.

I have nothing but respect for teachers who understand the importance of their job, but to say that profession is more exhausting than a full time job + 700-800 hours of studying a year is beyond silly.
Click to expand...
Is there an expectation that you take a certain number of exams each year? Would 1 per year be considered lazy? My thought was that I'd pass the first 2 then start looking for work.

By the way, no teacher is going to tell you that they are physically exhausted in July or August. Think of it like an accounted with a busy season. My busy season is September to January. Less busy February through June as routines get established. The good life in July and August. Though I still log hours those months working on curriculum or taking courses, it is stress free work.

I will say that I am a little concerned that this is just a grass is always greener kind of situation. But I appreciate the help from everyone as I consider some options.

 
What are all the exams? Just different specialty areas?

Also, do you guys use any data visualization tools like Tableau?

I'm not looking to enter this field but curious about it.

 
Out of curiousity, as a programmer with 16 years of experience what would be a ballpark starting salary in the new Jersey area?

 
Shady-

Freshman daughter is strongly considering this field. Been saying for years this is what she wants to be. Currently in AP junior level math.

Any guidance or advice you can offer to someone so young?

College recommendations? Live in WI, but she wants to go to an east coast college. How many years of schooling?

 
Fishboy said:
Shady-

Freshman daughter is strongly considering this field. Been saying for years this is what she wants to be. Currently in AP junior level math.

Any guidance or advice you can offer to someone so young?

College recommendations? Live in WI, but she wants to go to an east coast college. How many years of schooling?
Click to expand...
normal 4 years of college is fine. My advice, pass as many prelim exams as she can while in college and network. It's very competitive now. Kids are coming out of school with ASAs and no work experience now which is insane IMO. I would get some kind of internship experience and less than an ASA is fine.As far as colleges, many offer actuarial as a major now.

 
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I would definitely not recommend an actuarial science degree. You can get hired in the actuarial field with any quantitative degree but can't necessarily get hired in another field with an actuarial science degree.

I would recommend something like finance but even more so computer science. An applicant with very strong computer programming skills is $$$$$$

 
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