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Mike Tomlin...is it time to go? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GROOT
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fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I didn’t even notice that comment but now I’m convinced he’s trollingAre we back in the 70's now?
Long time football fan here, the last thing a guy like me needs to do is this childish, stupid, silly....trolling.....ok?
Check out my threads about the history of things, and I need to....troll....hahahahaha~~~
Come on man get real.
Hell, there was a time the Steelers totally sucked, but.....they did have a monster at fullback named John Henry Johnson. This guy had a wicked forearm shiver, he broke like a dozen face masks just...WHAM~~
He was the first 1000 yard rusher for the Steelers, he is in the HOF.
I need to....troll...????
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fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I don’t know how any of this post would somehow prove that you’re not trolling. Yes I’ve seen your work in other threads.
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Mike Tomlin is winning at a Legendary Pace
Saying Tomlin is on a legendary pace may sound crazy, but it is absolutely true. Tomlin has more regular season wins than any other coach, except Don Shula, after 11 full years. Shula had 117 wins while Tomlin has 116. That’s an amazing stat, but just as impressive are the numbers behind those wins. To date, Tomlin has four 12 win seasons, six division titles, and eight playoff appearances. He has the highest winning percentage (.659) in team history, and has never had a losing season. So, rather than judge his wins against the all-time leader, how does Tomlin compare to his two predecessors? Let’s start with Noll and move on to Cowher.
Hmmmm?
Saying Tomlin is on a legendary pace may sound crazy, but it is absolutely true. Tomlin has more regular season wins than any other coach, except Don Shula, after 11 full years. Shula had 117 wins while Tomlin has 116. That’s an amazing stat, but just as impressive are the numbers behind those wins. To date, Tomlin has four 12 win seasons, six division titles, and eight playoff appearances. He has the highest winning percentage (.659) in team history, and has never had a losing season. So, rather than judge his wins against the all-time leader, how does Tomlin compare to his two predecessors? Let’s start with Noll and move on to Cowher.
Hmmmm?
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
You know if you had just started with this post (which actually provides compelling justification to support your point), nobody would have accused you of trolling. But instead you chose to talk about his “jive” skills.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Just read my threads, how could anyone not pick up on a long time serious football fan here? Little punk kids troll.
Tomlin gets where a lot of his players are at, he knows how things are, how to communicate. And he can talk "jive" because I;'ve seen him do it.
You do get I;m trying to talk around things, right?
Buttonhook
Footballguy
Ok. How about playoff records?
Noll - 24-16 - 4 SB wins
Cowher - 12-9 - 1 SB win
Tomlin - 8-7 - 1 SB
I don't think the fans that are calling for Tomlin to be fired are concerned with his regular season record. Rather, it's his inability to get his team prepared against tougher competition, his complete lack of in-game adjustments, and his inability to get one of the most talented rosters in the NFL to play to its potential.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Cowher's playoff record (57%) vs Tomlin's (53%) aren't much different and the same criticisms you are saying about Tomlin were also said about Cowher after his three consecutive non-playoff seasons.
As far as getting one of the most talented rosters to play to their potential I think the offense has done so for the most part. The defense hasn't been very good for the last couple of years and some of that may be coaching but let's face it: the defense isn't close to being among the most talented in the NFL.
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Yenrub
Footballguy
0-9 on challenges is awful but how much of that “credit” goes to the HC and how much of it goes to the coaches up in the booth?
Buttonhook
Footballguy
Try to find a coach similar to other recent successful hires (Reich, Lynn, Nagy).
It's also possible that Tomlin finds some success given a fresh start (and I hope he does), but I think he's lost the respect of his current locker room and a fresh start is what this team needs.
Buttonhook
Footballguy
While I had some of the same heart-aches about Cowher, it always seemed that a lack of QB talent was the biggest obstacle to his teams success. And he admittedly seemed to not hold the QB position in the highest esteem, so he brought some of that on himself. But it's not a coincidence that he finally won a SB when he got a HOF QB, which is a luxury Tomlin has had his entire coaching tenure.
Offensively, we should have destroyed crappy defenses like the Raiders and Bengals, but we came in and STB. To me, that's a sign of an unprepared team, and an example of them not playing up to their potential, and that starts with the HC.
I agree that our defense does not have the best talent, but there are plenty of teams that don't have great talent and can still be coached-up. Tomlin came in as a defensive guru, and if he was that good there should be some guys playing above their talent level on the defensive side and I'm just not seeing it.
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How about they wait until the guy at least has a losing season, not one where he was one play away from another playoff run?
As we see below, Tomlin is historically great.
If the Steelers beat the Chargers tonight, their record will be 8-3-1 and it will mean Tomlin is guaranteed his 12th consecutive season without a losing record.
He has a winning percentage of .662.
Don Shula, who has more wins than any NFL coach finished at .677, George Halas is second all-time at .682, Bill Belichick is at .681. and Paul Brown at .672. That puts Tomlin in some pretty good company. Vince Lombardi had a .738 winning percentage but only coached for 10 seasons. John Madden, who also coached for 10, finished at .759.
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
The Steelers offense in 2017 was among the most talented and the team went 13-3. What let them down was an absolutely miserable performance by a defense that had lost their best player. In 2018 they lost arguably the best RB in the league and while Conner performed well he cost them 2 games with late game fumbles and missed 3-4 games due to injury. The kicker cost them another couple games. Losing Bell, costly turnovers and a kicker with the yips were not the fault of Tomlin.
I'm not saying that Tomlin is perfect and there needs to be some changes in attitude and philosophy and even processes like challenges and better clock management but I still believe he is a pretty good coach and I am willing to give him another season to right the ship.
Buttonhook
Footballguy
Ok, so give me some hope here... What game or specific plays this year do you credit to Tomlin that helped the team play better, or win a game? How about any in-game adjustments that caught your eye? My biggest concern is with Tomlin's in-game blunders, and that he continually gets out-coached. I don't see that changing next year.Godsbrother said:
And as far as Tomlin being a motivator of men, he's seemingly lost that too, because there were numerous games this year where the team was clearly unprepared (or unmotivated). I also don't see that changing next year.
Didn't you feel completely underwhelmed by our HC when the Jags came into our house during the playoffs last year and scored the most points they had all year? The only thing that kept us in that game was some spectacular plays by our offensive players, definitely not the coaching. How about the team falling apart during the middle of this season and losing three games in a row, two of which were to subpar teams?
His regular season record is historically great but playoff success is what matters to fans and players, and all of those coaches you listed above would have run circles around Tomlin in the playoffs. I'm not impressed with their regular season record as they definitely have the most talented roster in a weak division, and have relied on the talent of their players to put up good regular season records. It's only when games really matter (during the playoffs), and we can't rely on better talent winning us games, that the ineptitude and inadequacies of our HC become apparent.
Whoa....we don't know what would happen if Tomlin matched up vs anyone. So let's not go there.
The guy is a great coach, he has proven that. You don't roll the dice on somebody else. The Steelers were one play away from ANOTHER playoff run this season, what if they had made it?
12 seasons without a losing one, that is a big deal.
Once they start going 8-8, then 7-9, ok.....see ya~~~ But that just isn't how it is.
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irish eyes
Footballguy
What are you talking about 1 play from a playoff run. And here we go, living in the past, all those past great regular seasons. Face it, he has lost this team. And great idea waiting until a few losing seasons when at that point it will be to late. And by saying ANOTHER playoff run, you mean like the one last year when they got embarrassed at home by a sh@@@y QB?? Okay, making alot of sense there. Sheesh.
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Final game of the season if the Browns win they are in the playoffs....right? Mayfield throws an INT....that did it.
Living in the past? One play from a 2018 playoff spot.
What makes no sense at all is thinking somebody else could do a better job than Tomlin who has won it all and is among the best ever when it comes to winning football games.
I agree....sheesh~~~~~~~~~
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irish eyes
Footballguy
Do you ever pay attention to what you actually post. Did I miss something, did they make the playoffs...NO. I keep hearing oh 1 play, oh if this team would have beat that team they would have made it.... blah blah blah..go dig up more stats from yesteryear to to back up your man crush tomlin. Are you 2 related by chance?
Did you pay any attention to the facts of the situation? YES....one play away from making the playoffs like I said, this is news to you?
Dude, cool the blah, blah. blah, BS....it sucks, ok?
Don't pout like some kid because others don't agree with you on this, ok?
Dude, a....man crush....what are you 14?
The Steelers are lucky to have Tomlin, and about 26 other teams would love to have him.
Irish eyes, cool the silliness, ok?
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treat88
Footballguy
Folks can say 1 play from the playoffs all they want, but the way they ended up in that position is a horrible indictment of the job Tomlin did this season. They should have walked into the playoffs with at least the 3 seed with even a minimally competent coaching job over the last 7 games.
The game 1 loss to CLE, again looking past a lesser opponent. The debacle in Oak, sitting on his TOs. Handing the ball to Ridley in N.O. at a key point, followed by the fake punt to Nix. Just highlights of Tomlins direct impact on the 2018 epic choke job.
His coaching failures loomed very large this season and there were no signs of correcting issues which have become endemic to this team, poor situational awareness, lack of communication and discipline, awful challenge flags, and going ultra conservative with even the slimmest second half leads. They have all been hallmarks of Tomlins tenure no matter what the record says.
Now, with the curtain being drawn back and seeing the locker room dysfunction he has enabled....yea.
I get the guy has a great record and won a SB (his team vs Cowhers team issues aside), but there is good reason the fan base isnt thrilled with the guy.
The game 1 loss to CLE, again looking past a lesser opponent. The debacle in Oak, sitting on his TOs. Handing the ball to Ridley in N.O. at a key point, followed by the fake punt to Nix. Just highlights of Tomlins direct impact on the 2018 epic choke job.
His coaching failures loomed very large this season and there were no signs of correcting issues which have become endemic to this team, poor situational awareness, lack of communication and discipline, awful challenge flags, and going ultra conservative with even the slimmest second half leads. They have all been hallmarks of Tomlins tenure no matter what the record says.
Now, with the curtain being drawn back and seeing the locker room dysfunction he has enabled....yea.
I get the guy has a great record and won a SB (his team vs Cowhers team issues aside), but there is good reason the fan base isnt thrilled with the guy.
And, Browns win, the Steelers in the playoffs AGAIN.
And we aren't having this discussion.
It takes more than one bad season (9-7 a great season for some) to erase what Tomlin has done for the Steelers.
treat88
Footballguy
Kinda glossed over the whole point of my post, but OK.
Tomlins a good coach, and I dont know that they can replace him with an upgrade that is more successful. Im not calling for his head yet.
The issues that have kept him from being more successful, outside of the Patriots dynasty, are repetitive and limiting year after year. There are no signs he is self reflective and interested in improving as an on field coach. The issues of this team are chronic and it stems from Tomlin.
His one near universally recognized attribute is being an excellent leader. If he's truly lost the locker room as all indications appear, then I dont know what else he offers that makes me think the team had a better chance next year than this year.
There's a lot of Steelers spoiled fan in this, I get it, but if youd have told me in 2008 that by 2019 Ben wouldnt be back to the SB with the collection of talent around him hes had Id have bet against you. So, yea, Im disappointed in the last decade on Tomlins tenure. I do feel that in multiple seasons his decision making has been the limiting factor on the teams success.
Hes better than most, but Im still not convinced hes good enough to get them back to a SB, which fair or not is how this fan base judges him.
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Steeler
Footballguy
They were winning this game 21-7 at one point. The offense had 6 turnovers. The kicker missed a game winning kick in OT... but it's Tomlin's fault for "not having them ready"
There are legitimate criticisms of Tomlin, but not being ready for CLE in week 1 this year is not one of them.
treat88
Footballguy
Just another in a litany of road games against subpar teams where Tomlin teams underperform.They were winning this game 21-7 at one point. The offense had 6 turnovers. The kicker missed a game winning kick in OT... but it's Tomlin's fault for "not having them ready"
There are legitimate criticisms of Tomlin, but not being ready for CLE in week 1 this year is not one of them.
Dude is 6-5 against road teams when favored by 9 or more points. The rest of the league is 52-10. Small sample and all, at this point its unequivocal that his teams play down to the competition on the road. Laugh and roll at the doesn't get his team ready comment all ya like, but hes demonstrated the trait time and again.
I think we saw with him sitting a BR who was ready to go in OAK and having that cost them a W shows he can be more than a little arrogant and casual when he thinks hes got an advantage.
With the CLE game in particular, 6 TOs and 12 penalties for 116 yards dont really speak to me of a team thats is prepared and taking their opponent seriously. The game winning miss by Boz is just like the one game away line, if Tomlin does his job it doesn't come down to that. I dont know how either of those things happen if a team of this caliber is ready and focused on a subpar opponent.
Hallmarks of the Tomlin era: lack of both situational awareness and discipline.
Like I say, hes a good coach but its the same issues year in and year out and he doesn't self correct. I really didnt mean to dive into this quite this much, but the they were 1 game away thing just doesnt give credence to what an awful season Tomlin had and it was because of issues hes repeatedly put on tape since he got here.
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DropKick
Footballguy
6 turnovers, a missed kick? I can say that sounds like a team far from their "A" game. Gotta play 60 minutes.They were winning this game 21-7 at one point. The offense had 6 turnovers. The kicker missed a game winning kick in OT... but it's Tomlin's fault for "not having them ready"
There are legitimate criticisms of Tomlin, but not being ready for CLE in week 1 this year is not one of them.
That being said, I think Cleveland was a better team than most people think.
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treat88
Footballguy
Wait, are we moving the goal posts from the "one game away" trope to the hes been a consistently good coach for a long time now position?
Because if thats your take on Tomlin we agree.
The question becomes tho, given that Tomlin led teams have the same flaws year in and year out is he the coach that gives them the best chance to win a SB? IMO, the flaws hes put on tape are appraching the level of fatal in that respect.
Again, hes a good coach and if thats the goal...cool.
Since Cowhers vet leadership has left the team, we've watched a constant litany of issues that speaks to a devolution of the locker room dynamic that is needed to win a SB.
Its pretty evident that either thru inattention to detail, arrogance, or just really bad luck every dang time
that his teams underperform on the road routinely. His propensity to go conservative with a lead puts huge pressure on his D to get stops late and the D he has built hasn't been able to do that regularly for a long time.
Touching only on the major stuff, can a coach win a SB when he has an undisciplined locker room, plays down to road opponents, and puts his team in poor strategic positions by his very game philosophy?
Every passing year, I believe he can win another SB less and less. Hes been a good coach with a great regular season record, I just think the stars would have to align ever so perfectly for the players to overcome Tomlins flaws and win another ring.
I just can't see how any team could toss the dice on chancing letting any coach who has won you a SB and never had a losing season go. Gambling the next guy will be some dramatic improvement, a huge upgrade.....hmmmm?Wait, are we moving the goal posts from the "one game away" trope to the hes been a consistently good coach for a long time now position?
Because if thats your take on Tomlin we agree.
The question becomes tho, given that Tomlin led teams have the same flaws year in and year out is he the coach that gives them the best chance to win a SB? IMO, the flaws hes put on tape are appraching the level of fatal in that respect.
Again, hes a good coach and if thats the goal...cool.
Since Cowhers vet leadership has left the team, we've watched a constant litany of issues that speaks to a devolution of the locker room dynamic that is needed to win a SB.
Its pretty evident that either thru inattention to detail, arrogance, or just really bad luck every dang time
His propensity to go conservative with a lead puts huge pressure on his D to get stops late and the D he has built hasn't been able to do that regularly for a long time.
Touching only on the major stuff, can a coach win a SB when he has an undisciplined locker room, plays down to road opponents, and puts his team in poor strategic positions by his very game philosophy?
Every passing year, I believe he can win another SB less and less. Hes been a good coach with a great regular season record, I just think the stars would have to align ever so perfectly for the players to overcome Tomlins flaws and win another ring.
I do think the Bell situation was a huge distraction in 2018, then there was the Antonio Brown deal, that didn't help matters any.
How many teams have a better coach than Mike Tomlin right now? Well?
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treat88
Footballguy
Bell and AB are just the headlines today. Letting Ben skip time in OTAs, giving him vet days off, alienating Harrison, Santonio Holmes...the underlying lack of cohesion in the locker room has been an issue since the Hines Ward days.
The "better" stuff gets pretty hypothetical but if you asked me how many coaches over the last 12 years could have replicated what Tomlin has done or bettered it with this same group of talent...there are enough names there that I know you would disagree.
Relative to the talent hes been given I think Tomlin has underachieved. That doesn't mean hes not a good coach, it does mean I dont think its likely he is the guy to get this team back to the SB.
I agree hiring new blood is a risk but at this point with Tomlin its the devil ya know vs the devil ya dont. If I believe hes not likely to get back to the SB not sure the risk isnt worth the possible reward.
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Don't be so quick to....Bell/Brown.....just today. Where would any team be with their stud RB/WR in those situations?
A happy Brown and there is Bell thrilled to be there wouldn't have made a big difference, sure it would have. Hell, they were down to their third string RB at the end there.
So far all we have seen out of Tomlin is winning season after winning season after winning season, and until he stops winning why try and fix something that obviously isn't broken?
Is he perfect, of course not but neither are how many other NFL coachs right now? How many teams would dump what they have right now if they could bring in Tomlin?
Google....best NFL coachs heading into 2018 (yep, this season)
You will find numerous sites kicking it around with Tomlin usually in that 4/5 best in the biz category, that should work.
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treat88
Footballguy
I think both Bell and AB are symptomatic of Tomlins enabling leadership stlye. They should have simply moved on from Bell not allowing the distraction and Brown never should have been catered to both on and off the field for them to be wherever they are at now. Happy campers would have been dynamic weapons this year, not an argument. Brown was still pretty damn good. The various unhappy tho has Tomlins fingerprints on it.
To other points, again my response is because winning isnt the goal, winning the SB is and I dont think Tomlins now chronic flaws make that likely.
And, yes, he would be in high demand if he left.
Im not really calling for the guy to be fired, but if he was I would understand why and be more optimistic than not for whatever came next.
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I totally disagree about Bell/Brown, both are simply selfish players no matter who was the coach.
If I'm an owner give me that guy who has won me a SB and got me there again and always has me in the mix. No way in hell I'm changing things until that is no longer the case.
I do think if Tomlin was let go we'd find out just how great he really was as the new guy fell flat on his face. And it's now.........why did we let Mike go, talk about a stupid idea, there it was.
treat88
Footballguy
Thats fair. I get it. Hes been a good coach.
I certainly cant say you are wrong here.
Be interesting to watch how the Brown situation is handled. I wont belabor my take on Tomlins role there.
I just fall in the camp that the rising tide of talent has floated Tomlins boat moreso than the other way around. In some ways I think Tomlin has been a direct impediment to the talents success as Ive laid out. . Just what I see, take it for what its worth.
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Being a Niner fan I'd love to have Brown, just a little concerned how he'd do in San Francisco. And.....it is time Brown moved on, sure make Tomlin's job easier.
I will confess I love the way Tomlin deals with the media, the guy is just....BOOM..in your face.
And, I would like to see Tomlin take over a floundering franchise and see what happens, I do expect to see a turn around for the good.
Given the new ESPN article that says Tomlin gave AB his own set of rules which included living outside of TC, being chronically late to meetings and Tomlin stating matter of factly he’ll be gone when he doesn’t produce... seems to me he’s the cause of this three ring circus. Good luck to those defending him. Tomlin is a grade A clown of a coach that would get eaten alive in any other organization that doesn’t have the support network of the Steelers.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
This is a really bad look if true. You just can’t be giving preferential treatment as a coach. Easiest way to lose respect from the rest of the team.
I’ve given a laundry list in this thread. Maybe take some time to go back and read instead of continuously trolling on this board with your silly threads and antics within others.
Tomlin allowed AB’s antics
Excuse after excuse after excuse... all because people want to coach worship (and, ya, go ahead and get in a tiff I suggested people are coach worshiping... they are!). There is direct correlation between the collapse and Tomlin this year in my mind. Grossly outcoached, underprepared, inept and now known coddler of players.
What silly threads? Trolling? Antics?
Dude, where? That's right that doesn't exist.
There are how many pages here, how many posters?
Collapse is a 9-7 and one play from the playoffs? A collapse is 5-11 and never in contention for anything.
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