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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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2 hours ago, Dawg Pound 69 said:

Not involved. 12 team PPR. Draft hasn't started yet.

David Johnson and 1.02 for

Michael Thomas, D Freeman, T Coleman, and 1.05

 

 

1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

as usual, the two bigger pieces.  Understand taking the other side if you're building and anticipate the Falcons backs splitting up.  Personally, the change at OC makes me shy away from Atlanta right now. 

Solid deal for both teams and close enough final decision for me could come down to team makeup but in a vacuum I lean towards the Thomas/Falcon RB's side.

I own Coleman and Freeman individually in several leagues and jointly in one and if they split up it would not bother me but I put a great value on the duo as they are currently paired together. I won't say the new OC is zero concern but for me,  but based on what I've read and heard, not a big one and the duo provides you anything like what we saw last season you  basically have  the PPG producton of two top 10 RB's if you start both and if one should get hurt you likely got a one borderline top 5 RB. They provide a lot of roster flexibility as a duo in my opinion.

 

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33 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

This part kind of annoys me too.  MFL even gives a column when you list trade bait to add what you are looking for but no one ever uses it.  When it rarely does get used and someone adds a guy and puts something like "looking to downgrade here at RB and add a WR" a deal usually happens pretty quickly.  But most people using the trade bait thing seem like they are just going through their roster randomly clicking check boxes.

:yes:  thankfully in my main league, out of 32 teams 12 have posted their trade bait.  11 of which include some idea of what they want, although you'll get a few generalities "I don't want old players" and most of the trade bait right now is cutable players being shopped for future late picks.  Some go so far as to detail like "Picks and improvements to my starting lineup.  Dak for a 2018 early/mid 1st or a late 1st and 2nd.   Glennon/LaFell/Inman can be had for any 2018/2019 4th. Ingram/Crabtree-late 1st/early 2nd.  Kelley/Terrence Williams/Berry-late 2nd/early 3rd. Edelman-late 1st/early 2nd.  Everyone else listed is available for picks in rounds 5-7 In any year depending on the player." I wouldn't expect that level from everyone but it's perfect IMO. 

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

FFPC

Gave: Snead and Marshall

Got: Moncrief

Context:  I would imagine some might say, "this is free Marshall" or "I like Snead more than Moncrief" but I had roster space issues, value Moncriefs upside more and in general view him as big buy low target and Snead the opposite.

I'm not as high on Moncrief as some (in fact I think he's somewhat over-rated), but I take him pretty easily here. Marshall is pretty old and the Giants have options for Eli and Snead strikes me as the "new Lance Moore" for the Saints.

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Here is the trade bait page in one of my leagues.  Keeping in mind this is a very active league, but for some reason this is something where people treat it just as Andy has been describing.

I'd hop all over Brandon Coleman before that guy wises up.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

FFPC

Gave: Snead and Marshall

Got: Moncrief

Context:  I would imagine some might say, "this is free Marshall" or "I like Snead more than Moncrief" but I had roster space issues, value Moncriefs upside more and in general view him as big buy low target and Snead the opposite.

Not huge on Moncrief, but that's cheap. 

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12 Team PPR – QB, 2-3 RB, 3-4 WR, 1-2 TE

Series of trades I’ve completed over the past couple weeks.

Gave: 2018 1st & 4.08

Got: 2.03 & 2.06

__________________________

Gave: Lacy

Got: 1.07

__________________________

Gave: Abdullah, Moncreif, Ebron & 2.03

Got: Gronk, 2.05 & 3.06

 

Team:

QB: Brady, Wilson, Tannehill

RB: Bell, D. Murray, Gurley, Kelley, Drake, Barber

WR: Brown, Julio, AJG, Hopkins, Meredith, Doctson, Sharpe, Gordon

TE: Gronk, Brate

Picks: 1.07, 2.05, 2.06, 2.12, 3.06, 3.12, 4.12

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58 minutes ago, kyter1 said:

12 Team PPR – QB, 2-3 RB, 3-4 WR, 1-2 TE

Series of trades I’ve completed over the past couple weeks.

Gave: 2018 1st & 4.08

Got: 2.03 & 2.06

__________________________

Gave: Lacy

Got: 1.07

__________________________

Gave: Abdullah, Moncreif, Ebron & 2.03

Got: Gronk, 2.05 & 3.06

 

Team:

QB: Brady, Wilson, Tannehill

RB: Bell, D. Murray, Gurley, Kelley, Drake, Barber

WR: Brown, Julio, AJG, Hopkins, Meredith, Doctson, Sharpe, Gordon

TE: Gronk, Brate

Picks: 1.07, 2.05, 2.06, 2.12, 3.06, 3.12, 4.12

Unless that's a top 1st, I'll take the 2nds this year. 

1.07 rather easily

Gronk

Nice team, with deals like these that's not surprising.

Edited by -OZ-
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3 hours ago, kyter1 said:

12 Team PPR – QB, 2-3 RB, 3-4 WR, 1-2 TE

Series of trades I’ve completed over the past couple weeks.

Gave: 2018 1st & 4.08

Got: 2.03 & 2.06

__________________________

Gave: Lacy

Got: 1.07

__________________________

Gave: Abdullah, Moncreif, Ebron & 2.03

Got: Gronk, 2.05 & 3.06

 

Team:

QB: Brady, Wilson, Tannehill

RB: Bell, D. Murray, Gurley, Kelley, Drake, Barber

WR: Brown, Julio, AJG, Hopkins, Meredith, Doctson, Sharpe, Gordon

TE: Gronk, Brate

Picks: 1.07, 2.05, 2.06, 2.12, 3.06, 3.12, 4.12

2018 1st

1.07

Gronk

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2 hours ago, kyter1 said:

12 Team PPR – QB, 2-3 RB, 3-4 WR, 1-2 TE

Series of trades I’ve completed over the past couple weeks.

Gave: 2018 1st & 4.08

Got: 2.03 & 2.06

__________________________

Gave: Lacy

Got: 1.07

__________________________

Gave: Abdullah, Moncreif, Ebron & 2.03

Got: Gronk, 2.05 & 3.06

 

Team:

QB: Brady, Wilson, Tannehill

RB: Bell, D. Murray, Gurley, Kelley, Drake, Barber

WR: Brown, Julio, AJG, Hopkins, Meredith, Doctson, Sharpe, Gordon

TE: Gronk, Brate

Picks: 1.07, 2.05, 2.06, 2.12, 3.06, 3.12, 4.12

1.7 for Lacy is a win no matter makeup of team/roster/league.

The Gronk trade I was fairly even on before seeing your roster but knowing your roster makeup that trade was very ideal for your team. Ebron is a solid prospect with legit top 10 potential but he's still a question mark, as is Brate with the Howard addition, so that was your one lineup spot that was either weak or a question mark and you erased that question and on paper can put together an All-Star lineup from top to bottom.

Team makeup makes it far more understandable why you would sacrifice what you would have to project as a late first in 2018 for two current seconds. The fact you used on of those seconds to help facilitate the Gronk deal also helps make that trade a win for you. But in a vacuum I'd have preferred to hold onto the 2018#1 unless I was OTC at pick 2.3 and someone I had graded as a first round player was left but again you did use one of those chips to help land Gronk so I can't say I'm down on it for you.

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On 6/26/2017 at 10:36 PM, Andy Dufresne said:

Why do people put up "trade bait" on a league site and reject offers without a counter?

What a time waster putting an offer together only together only to have it discarded without an indication of whether or not it was close.

/rant :rant:

 

I never post trade bait because, for some reason, people in my leagues instantly revert to yard sale values.

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9 hours ago, DropKick said:

I never post trade bait because, for some reason, people in my leagues instantly revert to yard sale values.

Yeah, whenever I post that someone is up for trade everyone is like "Why would I trade for them when I know you'll drop them?!" to which I respond, "Are you insane, I'm not dropping Dez Bryant."  It's weird and I think the trade block/trade bait is counterproductive usually.  If you have someone you want to trade, just send out offers instead of posting it.

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1 hour ago, steelers1080 said:

Yeah, whenever I post that someone is up for trade everyone is like "Why would I trade for them when I know you'll drop them?!" to which I respond, "Are you insane, I'm not dropping Dez Bryant."  It's weird and I think the trade block/trade bait is counterproductive usually.  If you have someone you want to trade, just send out offers instead of posting it.

No. If you have someone you want to trade and you send out offers than people assume you are desperate to move them and in general will counter with ####.

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40 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:

No. If you have someone you want to trade and you send out offers than people assume you are desperate to move them and in general will counter with ####.

Most times the people don't know that I'm sending multiple offers out so they either say that they're not interested in that player or they counter with something reasonable (or accept straight out).  Haven't had too many lame counter offers recently. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

12 team ppr QB / 2RB / 3WR / TE / FL

 

Team A gave up Anderson, Robby NYJ WR;Hopkins, DeAndre HOU WR

Team B gave up Adams, Davante GBP WR;Hill, Tyreek KCC WR

 

1 hour ago, jeaton6 said:

Oish. Hopkins.

 

1 hour ago, JPeso said:

Adams/Hill

:lmao:

If you believe in Adams (or Hill, but Adams is the probable WR1 here) that's the better side.  It's fairly even. 

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12 team, 1pt PPR, 4pt PassTD... QB / 2RB / 2WR / TE / 2FLEX (RB,WR,TE) / K / DST

A gives: Allen Robinson

B gives: Lamar Miller, Tyrell Williams, 2017 3.01, 2018 2nd

Really curious about opinions on this one.

Edited by Adso
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1 hour ago, Adso said:

12 team, 1pt PPR, 4pt PassTD... QB / 2RB / 2WR / TE / 2FLEX (RB,WR,TE) / K / DST

A gives: Allen Robinson

B gives: Lamar Miller, Tyrell Williams, 2017 3.01, 2018 2nd

Really curious about opinions on this one.

Miller is just okay and the others are spare parts.

Robinson for me.

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1 hour ago, Adso said:

12 team, 1pt PPR, 4pt PassTD... QB / 2RB / 2WR / TE / 2FLEX (RB,WR,TE) / K / DST

A gives: Allen Robinson

B gives: Lamar Miller, Tyrell Williams, 2017 3.01, 2018 2nd

Really curious about opinions on this one.

this is not good value for the team giving up Robinson, at all.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Adso said:

12 team, 1pt PPR, 4pt PassTD... QB / 2RB / 2WR / TE / 2FLEX (RB,WR,TE) / K / DST

A gives: Allen Robinson

B gives: Lamar Miller, Tyrell Williams, 2017 3.01, 2018 2nd

Really curious about opinions on this one.

As an A-Rob owner, I'd turn this down fairly easily.  It adds more depth which may or may not be needed, but you lose the potential top talent for several middling pieces.  I'm in the camp of people who believe Miller and Williams are going to lose touches to rookies and won't retain their 2016 value.  The 3rd and 2nd don't add nearly enough for me to be tempted to move Robinson.

If A is one of those people who have soured on Robinson and don't think he or Bortles will turn things around (and assume Robinson won't test the market next year) then I could understand the trade, but I still wouldn't do it for those pieces.

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3 hours ago, Adso said:

12 team, 1pt PPR, 4pt PassTD... QB / 2RB / 2WR / TE / 2FLEX (RB,WR,TE) / K / DST

A gives: Allen Robinson

B gives: Lamar Miller, Tyrell Williams, 2017 3.01, 2018 2nd

Really curious about opinions on this one.

I'm lower than consensus opinion on every player in this deal, have 0% ownership in these players,  but like everyone else who has commented I would take Robinson.

Primary reason is while I may be lower on Robinson I still think he's good enough to merit being considered what I term a foundation type piece player due to being a potentially long term viable rock solid lineup piece at worst and to add to that has highest upside.  He has lost must start status for now, but a long term viable foundation piece with big upside, the other parts of this trade could all amount to holding nothing of value sooner than later.

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3 hours ago, Adso said:

12 team, 1pt PPR, 4pt PassTD... QB / 2RB / 2WR / TE / 2FLEX (RB,WR,TE) / K / DST

A gives: Allen Robinson

B gives: Lamar Miller, Tyrell Williams, 2017 3.01, 2018 2nd

Really curious about opinions on this one.

I think you should offer it anyway and let us know if it gets accepted.

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1 hour ago, pghrob said:

Oof. While I don't necessarily disagree with his overall premise that rookie picks are generally overvalued, he makes some pretty flawed arguments to back it up. In particular, focusing far too much on year 1 production as a rookie.

 

I also got a kick out of his description for Mike Evans - "Three top-24 finishes in three years." Understate things much?

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Certainly looks likes Team A makes out quite a bit better than Team B, presuming there will be no roster cut down challenges later in the preseason. Somebody has a higher evaluation of AR than I do - given the present situation down in JAX.

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11 minutes ago, Buckna said:

Oof. While I don't necessarily disagree with his overall premise that rookie picks are generally overvalued, he makes some pretty flawed arguments to back it up. In particular, focusing far too much on year 1 production as a rookie.

 

I also got a kick out of his description for Mike Evans - "Three top-24 finishes in three years." Understate things much?

He also left out some guys that were certainly taken in the first round of rookie drafts like Odell Beckham, Jr.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

He also left out some guys that were certainly taken in the first round of rookie drafts like Odell Beckham, Jr.

OBJ and Adams were both taken higher in my leagues than Sankey. Fwiw freeman went lower too.

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2 hours ago, pghrob said:

Oof.  This guy should have his keyboard taken away.

In addition to some of the mistakes mentioned above this is a classic case of a bad writer that doesn't understand that a study needs context.  That is to say using a provocative line like "more than 50% of 1st round picks bust" as the premise for your findings is meaningless without offering any info on how often non-rookies bust.  More than 50% sounds like a lot, but it turns out it's really not.  Someone on another forum actually ran the numbers and though he only had a limited sample size (the last few years) he found that the bust rate was not only similar for non-rookies, but it was actually worse for non-rookies.  And further, it was heavily weighted towards the top.  That is to say that looking at startup ADP once you got past the 2nd round the bust rate was pretty catastrophic for non-rookies.

A good exercise is to look at startup ADP of these rookies when they were rookies and look at the guys taken near them in startup drafts.  That should give a pretty good idea of what veterans you could have traded them for at the time.  Then compare how many of those guys were busts.  For instance Devontae Booker was a pretty big bust last year.  But here are the vets who were taken near Booker in startup drafts (IE vets who had similar value).  It's worth noting that Jordan Howard was in this bucket too, as another rookie.

Spencer Ware
Kevin White
John Brown
Doug Martin
Jeremy Maclin
Giovanni Bernard

So yeah, not exactly a murderer's row of guys you're riding to a title right now.  So when someone says "see, that Booker pick was a bust, you should have traded it!" you can't just make the assumption you would have traded it for some great player.  You're just as likely to have just given away Jordan Howard for Gio Bernard.

What is with "experts" only doing half the work lately?  A month or so back there was some stat floating around about Melvin Gordon's YPC with his short yardage carries removed because one of the podcasters from one of the big fantasy sites went on and made the argument that Gordon was underrated because his large number of short yardage carries negatively impacted his YPC by a lot.  He presented it as on carries not in short yardage situations his YPC was xxxx higher, which is huge!  But what he didn't do was actually look up how the same thing impacted other RBs to see if that difference was actually abnormally huge for Gordon or not.  As it turned out, it was pretty in line with the league average.

I think things like this are a good reminder that a lot of these "experts" are just fantasy football players that happen to have a journalism degree and good interview skills.  There are some posters around here that I trust a lot more than most of those guys.

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DFWC 12 team PPR

Honey Badger gave up: Samuel,Curtis WR CAR
Honey Badger gave up: Perine,Samaje RB WAS
Honey Badger gave up: 2018 Rnd 3 pick from Honey Badger


Bernstein Bears gave up: Hopkins,DeAndre WR HOU

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9 minutes ago, Dez said:

DFWC 12 team PPR

Honey Badger gave up: Samuel,Curtis WR CAR
Honey Badger gave up: Perine,Samaje RB WAS
Honey Badger gave up: 2018 Rnd 3 pick from Honey Badger


Bernstein Bears gave up: Hopkins,DeAndre WR HOU

Depends on whether i think the 3rd will be early or late

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39 minutes ago, Dez said:

DFWC 12 team PPR

Honey Badger gave up: Samuel,Curtis WR CAR
Honey Badger gave up: Perine,Samaje RB WAS
Honey Badger gave up: 2018 Rnd 3 pick from Honey Badger


Bernstein Bears gave up: Hopkins,DeAndre WR HOU

 

34 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Seems fair.

I hope that's sarcasm.  I don't expect much from Perine or Samuel but in reality that's a late 1st, mid 2nd and future 3rd at best, for a top WR.  That's insanely cheap, unless it's odd rosters as I don't know what DFWC is.  

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43 minutes ago, Dez said:

DFWC 12 team PPR

Honey Badger gave up: Samuel,Curtis WR CAR
Honey Badger gave up: Perine,Samaje RB WAS
Honey Badger gave up: 2018 Rnd 3 pick from Honey Badger


Bernstein Bears gave up: Hopkins,DeAndre WR HOU

Pretty much what we'd envision between a honey badger and kids' book characters. 

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30 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

I hope that's sarcasm.  I don't expect much from Perine or Samuel but in reality that's a late 1st, mid 2nd and future 3rd at best, for a top WR.  That's insanely cheap, unless it's odd rosters as I don't know what DFWC is.  

Well that's the question, isn't it? I think Hopkins is better than good but less than great. Especially in the situation he's in. 

And if you don't expect much from Perine...well you're in the minority from what I've seen.  But it would explain why you think the trade is lopsided.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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49 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Well that's the question, isn't it? I think Hopkins is better than good but less than great. Especially in the situation he's in. 

And if you don't expect much from Perine...well you're in the minority from what I've seen.  But it would explain why you think the trade is lopsided.

A first round dynasty startup pick for a mid to late 1 rookie and mid 2 rookie? I think you're in the clear minority here. Who is trading Hopkins for anything less than a top 4 rookie and T least another mid to late 1 rookie pick? Let alone the above?

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2 hours ago, Dez said:

DFWC 12 team PPR

Honey Badger gave up: Samuel,Curtis WR CAR
Honey Badger gave up: Perine,Samaje RB WAS
Honey Badger gave up: 2018 Rnd 3 pick from Honey Badger


Bernstein Bears gave up: Hopkins,DeAndre WR HOU

Samuel went pick 12 and Perine went pick 16 in the rookie draft just a note. This league has a 20 man roster.  Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 flex, 1 K 1 DF.

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14 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:

A first round dynasty startup pick for a mid to late 1 rookie and mid 2 rookie? I think you're in the clear minority here. Who is trading Hopkins for anything less than a top 4 rookie and T least another mid to late 1 rookie pick? Let alone the above?

Hopkins is a first round startup pick?

I've read a lot about him this off-season because I've considered trading for him myself. There is zero consensus on him going forward.

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http://playffwc.com/football/leagueF1000047/index.php?page=teamdraft

Here is a startup at this site going now.  If you were to use the picks in this draft that trade would be pick 15 (Hopkins) for picks 72 (Perine), 143 (Samuel) and a projected late 3rd in 2018.

The defending champ was the one to get Hopkins.

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Let me say it more specifically. It seems like it has a possibility of ending up fair.

If you think the "true" Hopkins is the 2015 version, then it's lopsided.

But if 2013 and 2016 give you pause, and you think Perine will be the #1 in Washington, then I can see one talking themselves into it.

I'd say it's about 50/50 that Hopkins puts up numbers anywhere close to 2015. 

Having said all that, I'd rather have Hopkins.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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If this Hopkins deal isn't lopsided, then what in God's name is needed to make a deal lopsided?  Since when does one's personal thoughts about a player have any bearing on whether or not a deal is lopsided anyway? 

Using some simple hard factual data shows us this is a horrific trade for the team giving up Hopkins (in terms of value).

Edited by ghostguy123
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4 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

If this Hopkins deal isn't lopsided, then what in God's name is needed to make a deal lopsided?  Since when does one's personal thoughts about a player have any bearing on whether or not a deal is lopsided anyway? 

Using some simple hard factual data shows us this is a horrific trade for the team giving up Hopkins (in terms of value).

Something worse. Your black/white takes around here are well established.

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30 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Something worse. Your black/white takes around here are well established.

Something worse than lopsided is just more lopsided.  What's your point?

We got a guy going early 2nd round of startups after a DOWN year for some dudes going what, 7th and 11th rounds? 

Just how lopsided does it need to be for YOU to consider a deal lopsided? 

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Let me say it more specifically. It seems like it has a possibility of ending up fair.

If you think the "true" Hopkins is the 2015 version, then it's lopsided.

But if 2013 and 2016 give you pause, and you think Perine will be the #1 in Washington, then I can see one talking themselves into it.

I'd say it's about 50/50 that Hopkins puts up numbers anywhere close to 2015. 

Having said all that, I'd rather have Hopkins.

Every deal posted in the history of these threads has the "possibility of ending up fair".  The issue is if it's fair market value or not.  Which it definitively is not. 

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