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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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Let me say it more specifically. It seems like it has a possibility of ending up fair.

If you think the "true" Hopkins is the 2015 version, then it's lopsided.

But if 2013 and 2016 give you pause, and you think Perine will be the #1 in Washington, then I can see one talking themselves into it.

I'd say it's about 50/50 that Hopkins puts up numbers anywhere close to 2015. 

Having said all that, I'd rather have Hopkins.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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If this Hopkins deal isn't lopsided, then what in God's name is needed to make a deal lopsided?  Since when does one's personal thoughts about a player have any bearing on whether or not a deal is lopsided anyway? 

Using some simple hard factual data shows us this is a horrific trade for the team giving up Hopkins (in terms of value).

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4 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

If this Hopkins deal isn't lopsided, then what in God's name is needed to make a deal lopsided?  Since when does one's personal thoughts about a player have any bearing on whether or not a deal is lopsided anyway? 

Using some simple hard factual data shows us this is a horrific trade for the team giving up Hopkins (in terms of value).

Something worse. Your black/white takes around here are well established.

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30 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Something worse. Your black/white takes around here are well established.

Something worse than lopsided is just more lopsided.  What's your point?

We got a guy going early 2nd round of startups after a DOWN year for some dudes going what, 7th and 11th rounds? 

Just how lopsided does it need to be for YOU to consider a deal lopsided? 

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Let me say it more specifically. It seems like it has a possibility of ending up fair.

If you think the "true" Hopkins is the 2015 version, then it's lopsided.

But if 2013 and 2016 give you pause, and you think Perine will be the #1 in Washington, then I can see one talking themselves into it.

I'd say it's about 50/50 that Hopkins puts up numbers anywhere close to 2015. 

Having said all that, I'd rather have Hopkins.

Every deal posted in the history of these threads has the "possibility of ending up fair".  The issue is if it's fair market value or not.  Which it definitively is not. 

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Well, we can count at least two in the "expect a bounce back year for Hopkins" camp. 

I guess even if Savage is horrific or Watson is catastrophic it'll still be better than Osweiler's apocalyticness.

I've been in the "you can't just assume Hopkins/ARob are going to bounce back this year" camp as much as anybody.  Maybe moreso than anybody.  But even if you can say with 100% conviction that Hopkins has had the last elite season of his career surely you see the issue in trading away a guy with top 10 overall dynasty value for basically a pair of 2nd round rookie picks.

If you don't like Hopkins go trade him for Michael Thomas or TY Hilton, both of whom have a lower startup ADP than him.  Or if you want a RB go get Melvin Gordon, Devonta Freeman, or Leonard Fournette.  Again, all of whom are typically valued lower.

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18 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I've been in the "you can't just assume Hopkins/ARob are going to bounce back this year" camp as much as anybody.  Maybe moreso than anybody.  But even if you can say with 100% conviction that Hopkins has had the last elite season of his career surely you see the issue in trading away a guy with top 10 overall dynasty value for basically a pair of 2nd round rookie picks.

If you don't like Hopkins go trade him for Michael Thomas or TY Hilton, both of whom have a lower startup ADP than him.  Or if you want a RB go get Melvin Gordon, Devonta Freeman, or Leonard Fournette.  Again, all of whom are typically valued lower.

I simply don't agree with this. 

We don't need to beat this dead horse any more.

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5 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

 

 

9 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Hopkins is a first round startup pick?

I've read a lot about him this off-season because I've considered trading for him myself. There is zero consensus on him going forward.

Yes he is in the late first. There is plenty of consensus on him going forward. The consensus is he is at worst a top 10 dynasty WR. What there is zero consensus on is the two rookies you are so adamantly defending as being more valuable than they really are.

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38 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:
9 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Hopkins is a first round startup pick?

I've read a lot about him this off-season because I've considered trading for him myself. There is zero consensus on him going forward.

Yes he is in the late first. There is plenty of consensus on him going forward. The consensus is he is at worst a top 10 dynasty WR. What there is zero consensus on is the two rookies you are so adamantly defending as being more valuable than they really are.

:shrug: I wouldn't take hop in the first unless it's a 20+ team league (and probably not then because qbs get up there). FBG rankings vary between 7-15 for wr, 6 (funny, the same staffer has him as the 7th wr; somehow he leaps over cooper and green with his overall ranking) - 28 overall.  

#10 wr in dynasty is where I'd list him. 

Regardless, this was a bad deal in reference to market value.  The potential is certainly there for it to pan out. 

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19 hours ago, Adso said:

12 team, 1pt PPR, 4pt PassTD... QB / 2RB / 2WR / TE / 2FLEX (RB,WR,TE) / K / DST

A gives: Allen Robinson

B gives: Lamar Miller, Tyrell Williams, 2017 3.01, 2018 2nd

Really curious about opinions on this one.

Robinson, not close

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13 hours ago, Dez said:

DFWC 12 team PPR

Honey Badger gave up: Samuel,Curtis WR CAR
Honey Badger gave up: Perine,Samaje RB WAS
Honey Badger gave up: 2018 Rnd 3 pick from Honey Badger


Bernstein Bears gave up: Hopkins,DeAndre WR HOU

Atrocious 

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7 minutes ago, JPeso said:

Robinson, not close

Year 2 151 targets,  80 receptions,  1400 yards,  14 touchdowns

Year 3 150 targets,  73 receptions,  883 yards,  6 touchdowns

How should Robinson be valued? As a guy who once put up 1400/14 but hasn't since? Or as a stud who had a down year? Does the emergence of Lee and drafting of DeDe Westbrook change that at all?  It used to be just Robinson and Hurns, if they have more targets are you worried that his targets will drop?  

I see him as a guy who might get 1200+ yards again in his career but I'm realistically hoping for 80/1100/7.  Which is about what Tyrell Williams did last year.   But I get that he has a lot of residual value though so I'm wondering how much more you think he's worth if you said not close.  Or is it more that you're down on Miller and Williams? 

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8 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I simply don't agree with this. 

We don't need to beat this dead horse any more.

Reality doesn't really care whether you believe in it or not.  We have ADP data over many drafts that places him in the 10-15 overall range.  Not to mention rankings on basically every major site that do the same (FBG 14, DLF 10, DFW 10, Dynasty Nerds 9).

ADP 11 overall in 57 drafts: http://rotoviz.com/dynasty-adp/

 

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15 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I think things like this are a good reminder that a lot of these "experts" are just fantasy football players that happen to have a journalism degree and good interview skills.  There are some posters around here that I trust a lot more than most of those guys.

I have my doubts about that even - that article could have been written by a HS student. Even if we ignore the faulty analysis and stretches of logic, it isn't even written well.

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28 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Reality doesn't really care whether you believe in it or not.  We have ADP data over many drafts that places him in the 10-15 overall range.  Not to mention rankings on basically every major site that do the same (FBG 14, DLF 10, DFW 10, Dynasty Nerds 9).

ADP 11 overall in 57 drafts: http://rotoviz.com/dynasty-adp/

 

All true. But he was #27 in points last year in the Zealots PPR league I play in. Is Tom Savage an upgrade from Osweiler? Maybe/maybe not.

So if one is unsure Hopkins will bounce back and you think Perine will be the guy in Wash and that Samuel can do better than Ginn (I do - Samuel can actually catch) then this looks like it could work out.

But if you think the real Hopkins is a perennial 100/1500/10-ish guy then, of course, this looks bad.

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2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Year 2 151 targets,  80 receptions,  1400 yards,  14 touchdowns

Year 3 150 targets,  73 receptions,  883 yards,  6 touchdowns

How should Robinson be valued? As a guy who once put up 1400/14 but hasn't since? Or as a stud who had a down year? Does the emergence of Lee and drafting of DeDe Westbrook change that at all?  It used to be just Robinson and Hurns, if they have more targets are you worried that his targets will drop?  

I see him as a guy who might get 1200+ yards again in his career but I'm realistically hoping for 80/1100/7.  Which is about what Tyrell Williams did last year.   But I get that he has a lot of residual value though so I'm wondering how much more you think he's worth if you said not close.  Or is it more that you're down on Miller and Williams? 

well the bolded is just silly, theres only been a single season since the breakout, he was destined for regression

his "targets" stayed the same, I have a feeling a lot of those were less than catchable

I dont see dede eating into much of robinsons production, moreso hurns or lees if anyone, imo

i think the offensive scheme changes will be helpful to robinson and bortles

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55 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

All true. But he was #27 in points last year in the Zealots PPR league I play in. Is Tom Savage an upgrade from Osweiler? Maybe/maybe not.

So if one is unsure Hopkins will bounce back and you think Perine will be the guy in Wash and that Samuel can do better than Ginn (I do - Samuel can actually catch) then this looks like it could work out.

But if you think the real Hopkins is a perennial 100/1500/10-ish guy then, of course, this looks bad.

Yeah, I'm in the camp that thinks Hopkins is overrated. He's a great WR, but we already saw his best season. He had nobody else taking targets, and the best QB he will ever have, the underrated Hoyer.  Say what you want, but he made Hopkins, Josh Gordon, and Cam Meredith (Got on the same page as Hoyer for games 3 and 4) take the next step.  I don't think that Watson or Savage will be good enough to get Hopkins the ball reliably. He doesn't separate a ton from CBs, so the QBs need to be great with timing. His speed is lacking, but he is technically amazing using leverage and timing to get small open windows even in tight coverage (see his games against Ramsey).

That said, while the trade was even based on where I value him as a player (top 20 WR moving forward but never top 8 again), it's not even with his perceived value.  

I would take Hopkins, but I'm sure a trade like this could happen in my league as well, because he's just not viewed by any of the owners (except the guy who has him) as a top 12 dynasty asset.  People view 2015 as the outlier, and see him as a WR2.

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2 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Reality doesn't really care whether you believe in it or not.

 

That's in a nutshell.

The guy who made the Hopkins trade is a takeover owner, so he's not responsible for having acquired Hopkins in the first place and seems safe to conclude does not have a super high opinion of him. And none of that matters one iota. If you have a valued asset you don't like the goal is to move him for his market value, not move him for the lower value you think he has because you are not high on him.

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15 minutes ago, menobrown said:

That's in a nutshell.

The guy who made the Hopkins trade is a takeover owner, so he's not responsible for having acquired Hopkins in the first place and seems safe to conclude does not have a super high opinion of him. And none of that matters one iota. If you have a valued asset you don't like the goal is to move him for his market value, not move him for the lower value you think he has because you are not high on him.

That's the goal, sure. But if you're not a believer and you don't get a market value offer then you're willing to take what you can get.

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

That's the goal, sure. But if you're not a believer and you don't get a market value offer then you're willing to take what you can get.

I'm in that league and entered the draft with every pick in top 15 except 8, 10 and 12 and we made him offers for some of his players when he took the team over and let it known we had interest in Hopkins. Our offers were refused, we got no counters. Other league members are surprised at the trade. This is not a case of someone shopping someone around and taking best offer they got. And even if that were the case, which it's not, it's June so what's the rush?

I know you've been trying but really don't see any way of justifying this trade.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, -OZ- said:

:shrug: I wouldn't take hop in the first unless it's a 20+ team league (and probably not then because qbs get up there). FBG rankings vary between 7-15 for wr, 6 (funny, the same staffer has him as the 7th wr; somehow he leaps over cooper and green with his overall ranking) - 28 overall.  

#10 wr in dynasty is where I'd list him. 

Regardless, this was a bad deal in reference to market value.  The potential is certainly there for it to pan out. 

No idea what this means. How can someone be #7-#15 WR and yet be ranked as #6-#28 overall? RBs get a huge bump in 20 team leagues but not sure why we are even talking about that.

Ok. We are agreed bad deal on value. Any deal that has assets that are uncertain has the potential to pan out.

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3 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:

No idea what this means. How can someone be #7-#15 WR and yet be ranked as #6-#28 overall? RBs get a huge bump in 20 team leagues but not sure why we are even talking about that.

Ok. We are agreed bad deal on value. Any deal that has assets that are uncertain has the potential to pan out.

Ask the staff.  

My point was imo hopkins is not a first round player.  

I could be wrong  (obviously) but I'd bet the guy actually wanted Samuel and Perine, instead of just trying to dump hopkins. 

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19 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

That's the goal, sure. But if you're not a believer and you don't get a market value offer then you're willing to take what you can get.

NO. You win leagues by taking market value for guys you want to move and for forcing overpays for guys you like. 

Your mentality is that of guys people here on the boards say "Geesh I wish I had a guy like that in my league".

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17 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:

NO. You win leagues by taking market value for guys you want to move and for forcing overpays for guys you like. 

Your mentality is that of guys people here on the boards say "Geesh I wish I had a guy like that in my league".

There's lots of ways to win leagues. That includes taking risks on up and comers and divesting of people that are teases.

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21 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Ask the staff.  

My point was imo hopkins is not a first round player.  

I could be wrong  (obviously) but I'd bet the guy actually wanted Samuel and Perine, instead of just trying to dump hopkins. 

Knowing what I know I don't think so.  Unless something had transpired since the rookie drafts, which took place about a week after the draft, to make him covet Perine or Samuels a lot more. I say that because as I mentioned I'm in this league and had picks 1-6, 7, 9, 11 and 13-15 and let it be known at the time we had some interest in 3 of his players which were Brown, Gronk and Hopkins. Perine was drafted 12th and Samuels 16th so so if getting those players was a goal we gave him every opportunity and could not get an offer. Had he made one we'd have given him picks to take those players and then some.

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18 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:

NO. You win leagues by taking market value for guys you want to move and for forcing overpays for guys you like. 

Your mentality is that of guys people here on the boards say "Geesh I wish I had a guy like that in my league".

 This is true but market value changes.  If you predict that their trade value is going to drop then taking less than his current start up adp value in trade is not only correct but much better than not taking anything.  The mistake people usually make is not shopping their guy enough before accepting a low offer.  

It's also a question of risk,  and exit value if your guy busts.  If i owned Hopkins and was offered late second round startup value for him I'd trade him even if i thought he was worth a late first/ early second because if I'm wrong, it wasn't a huge mistake but if I'm right I dodged a huge bullet because his value could crater next year if he has a bad season.  I might think obj is due for a bad year but still not trade him because a bad year would barely touch his trade value. 

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

It's hard to get this exact but, for example,  this time last year a trade of Randall Cobb for Michael Thomas and Jordan Howard wouldn't have looked great either.

Neither would mike evans for devonte booker and Leonte carroo. 

Most likely this trade doesn't look like either of those. 

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4 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Neither would mike evans for devonte booker and Leonte carroo. 

Most likely this trade doesn't look like either of those. 

Maybe. I was just throwing out a quick example of a guy that was still a top 10 WR and a bounce back candidate at the beginning of 2016 being traded for two guys that typically went somewhere around 12-15 in the rookie draft.

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5 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Year 2 151 targets,  80 receptions,  1400 yards,  14 touchdowns

Year 3 150 targets,  73 receptions,  883 yards,  6 touchdowns

How should Robinson be valued? As a guy who once put up 1400/14 but hasn't since? Or as a stud who had a down year? Does the emergence of Lee and drafting of DeDe Westbrook change that at all?  It used to be just Robinson and Hurns, if they have more targets are you worried that his targets will drop?  

I see him as a guy who might get 1200+ yards again in his career but I'm realistically hoping for 80/1100/7.  Which is about what Tyrell Williams did last year.   But I get that he has a lot of residual value though so I'm wondering how much more you think he's worth if you said not close.  Or is it more that you're down on Miller and Williams? 

I am probably much lower on Robinson than the vast majority of the community, but he remains a lock top 12 value at the position, and as I have stated time again, Robinson can be flipped for a top 12 receiver. Even though he is not my guy, I can get my guy with him. Take the value and run. 

I am not expecting Tyrell Williams to be a world beater. I have a soft spot for Lamarr Miller since his days at the U, but he is nowhere near worth what you can flip Robinson for on the open market. 

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29 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Maybe. I was just throwing out a quick example of a guy that was still a top 10 WR and a bounce back candidate at the beginning of 2016 being traded for two guys that typically went somewhere around 12-15 in the rookie draft.

Sure.  The trade could work out.  but based on meno's comments, it looks like the guy could have done better. 

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I'm beginning to suspect that people just won't agree on this topic.  Also, if he didn't shop around it sounds like he's just a bad fantasy owner. There's a difference between overpaying for something and just making a bad trade.  I'm usually on the side of rookies, but I'm not a huge fan of Perine or Samuel, that's why I'm on Hopkins' side.  If it was Mike Williams and Kareem Hunt (30 + 50) for Hopkins I'd probably be all for it.

In the past 3 seasons I traded away Odell Beckham, Demarco Murray, Dez Bryant, Mike Williams (LAC), Tevin Coleman, Josh Gordon, several 1sts and 2nds.  Some of these players were at the height of their games or have lots of potential, but I'm pretty happy with how the picks/players I got in return turned out.  I ended up with Leveon Bell, 2nd round rookie pick (David Johnson), Amari Cooper, Leonard Fournette* (*Traded for the 1sts last year), Dalvin Cook*, Christian McCaffrey*, David Njoku, Juju Smith-Schuster, and Martavis Bryant (after year long suspension announced).

The only person I got at the height of their game was Amari Cooper who I recently traded for, and I think he's still ascending. The other players were either injured (Bell just after season ending injury 2015) or trading players for picks or picks for future picks.  Most of my trades were considered overpays at the time based on player ADP or dynasty trade calculators, but I like my team a lot more now. (2 wr/rb/te flex, can play up to 4 RBs or WRs)

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7 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

All true. But he was #27 in points last year in the Zealots PPR league I play in. Is Tom Savage an upgrade from Osweiler? Maybe/maybe not.

So if one is unsure Hopkins will bounce back and you think Perine will be the guy in Wash and that Samuel can do better than Ginn (I do - Samuel can actually catch) then this looks like it could work out.

But if you think the real Hopkins is a perennial 100/1500/10-ish guy then, of course, this looks bad.

So if you think a house is worth $200k but the market says it's worth $400k, what would you think of a deal where it sold for $250k?

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15 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

So if you think a house is worth $200k but the market says it's worth $400k, what would you think of a deal where it sold for $250k?

It's more like you think a house is worth $200k, the value of the same house in some parts of the city is worth $400k, but in your section of the city it is valued at $275k, and you sell for $250k.  Just because the overall fantasy landscape views a player as a top 15 guy, doesn't mean your league will.  In this specific case it looks like he just made a poor trade because there were other people interested in Hopkins and he could have traded Hopkins for more. But not every league views Hopkins as a top talent, and if you just want to move on you could be selling him below his value compared with overall dynasty rankings.

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22 hours ago, Pwingles said:

well the bolded is just silly, theres only been a single season since the breakout, he was destined for regression

his "targets" stayed the same, I have a feeling a lot of those were less than catchable

I dont see dede eating into much of robinsons production, moreso hurns or lees if anyone, imo

i think the offensive scheme changes will be helpful to robinson and bortles

Spoken like a Robinson truther.

 

So let me get this straight.

1- 2015 happened with Bortles. 2016 happened with Bortles. But 2016 a lot of those passes were uncatchable?

2- Despite being less efficient than Hurns in 2015 and Lee in 2016(also Lee almost had more yards on 41 less targets) + they drafted Dede Westbrook in round 4.....Robinson is still going to get his or 151 targets?

3- The offensive scheme change will help Robinson. Coughlin didn't draft Robinson, he drafted Fournette and Westbrook. 

 

Robinson feasted at the end of 2015 with little competition due to injuries + garbage time points = one of the most unrealistic rates i've seen in awhile. His 1st/2nd half efficiency splits are almost .6 point difference per target. He averaged a full less point per target in 2016 than he did over that special stretch to end 2015.

 

If you're chasing the end of the year 2015 Robinson, you're going to be surely disappointed. 

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25 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

It's more like you think a house is worth $200k, the value of the same house in some parts of the city is worth $400k, but in your section of the city it is valued at $275k, and you sell for $250k.  Just because the overall fantasy landscape views a player as a top 15 guy, doesn't mean your league will.  In this specific case it looks like he just made a poor trade because there were other people interested in Hopkins and he could have traded Hopkins for more. But not every league views Hopkins as a top talent, and if you just want to move on you could be selling him below his value compared with overall dynasty rankings.

I'm my experience most people who make lopsided trades don't shop their players. At All. It's very rare for ALL 11 other owners to have the same opinion on a player. 

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1 hour ago, tdmills said:

Spoken like a Robinson truther.

 

So let me get this straight.

1- 2015 happened with Bortles. 2016 happened with Bortles. But 2016 a lot of those passes were uncatchable?

I think the amount of times Bortles was hurried, hit, pressured and off target in general are hardly up for debate. Obviously those things lead to more passes that were not caught.

2- Despite being less efficient than Hurns in 2015 and Lee in 2016(also Lee almost had more yards on 41 less targets) + they drafted Dede Westbrook in round 4.....Robinson is still going to get his or 151 targets?

IDK about the figure staying the same this season, I only stated his targets stayed the same the last 2 seasons. I would think the overall distribution will look similar. I wouldnt be surprised if the amount of overall attempts to WRs was down this season, since they are seemingly wanting to emphasize running the ball more. As far as efficiency goes, it really is a skewed stat for some WRs. A lot of Robinsons targets were longer downfield throws. In general they are less accurate and caught less often. A lot of drops are credited on these throws as well. So when you have an inaccurate qb, throwing inaccurate balls, that are contested every time, it will often look as if you arent making the most out of your opportunities. Not that its a meaningless stat, just sometimes its not as telling or damning as it looks.

3- The offensive scheme change will help Robinson. Coughlin didn't draft Robinson, he drafted Fournette and Westbrook. 

I think it could. what is your point? Who cares who drafted who, coughlin isnt the coach. He also signed a fullback and drafted another, and some OL help. Which to me indicates they are wanting to focus on controlling the ball, and giving bortles another weapon that will effectively balance and open up other facets of the offense.

 

Robinson feasted at the end of 2015 with little competition due to injuries + garbage time points = one of the most unrealistic rates i've seen in awhile. His 1st/2nd half efficiency splits are almost .6 point difference per target. He averaged a full less point per target in 2016 than he did over that special stretch to end 2015.

I dont disagree, that period of time was a perfect storm of opportunity for him. But people act like he is just not good. Which is crazy. I dont think it was a fluke, I think he is capable of producing solid FF weeks, often. He is young, talented, and has shown he is capable.

If you're chasing the end of the year 2015 Robinson, you're going to be surely disappointed. 

Not chasing necessarily, i am an owner already. But even if you are right and he never tops that season again, so what?  He could produce on a lesser scale and still be a valuable FF commodity, right?

 

 

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On 6/28/2017 at 5:21 PM, Dez said:

DFWC 12 team PPR

Honey Badger gave up: Samuel,Curtis WR CAR
Honey Badger gave up: Perine,Samaje RB WAS
Honey Badger gave up: 2018 Rnd 3 pick from Honey Badger


Bernstein Bears gave up: Hopkins,DeAndre WR HOU

Well this trade provided some discussion on a slow day and made me realize some people will try and defend any position but this was not a defensible trade and it's since been overturned. Not overturned due to disputes either, overturned because the guy who gave up Hopkins cited technical issues and never had intention of taking the trade, per him anyway but Hopkins is back on his roster.

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17 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Well this trade provided some discussion on a slow day and made me realize some people will try and defend any position but this was not a defensible trade and it's since been overturned. Not overturned due to disputes either, overturned because the guy who gave up Hopkins cited technical issues and never had intention of taking the trade, per him anyway but Hopkins is back on his roster.

All that for nothing!? Tell that guy thanks a lot! :rant:

 

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3 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

It's more like you think a house is worth $200k, the value of the same house in some parts of the city is worth $400k, but in your section of the city it is valued at $275k, and you sell for $250k.  Just because the overall fantasy landscape views a player as a top 15 guy, doesn't mean your league will.  In this specific case it looks like he just made a poor trade because there were other people interested in Hopkins and he could have traded Hopkins for more. But not every league views Hopkins as a top talent, and if you just want to move on you could be selling him below his value compared with overall dynasty rankings.

That's why I didn't say $375k or $350k.  If it were "close" to market value no one's going to have much to say.  It's very hard to get full market value in some leagues, we get it.  But someone is going to give more than that.  Hell I would give more than that for a guy I hate just because I know he's worth more, and the guy trolling the discussion has even admitted the same opinion.

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12 team PPR

OBJ

Davis, Martavis, 2018 1/2 (late), 2019 1

OBJ owner preferred this over my offer of: Hopkins and one of 2018 1 (top 3, his own which is a rebuild pick) or Derrick Henry. His ask was all 3 of those from me. 

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