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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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1 minute ago, Hankmoody said:

This is way, way off base.  It's not even close to the level you are proposing.

OK, Hank. Next time I'll wait around for a number of other replies and explanations before I give my honest evaluation for a trade that is freshly posted. And maybe everyone else should do the same. GL to you, too.

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12 minutes ago, lexus said:

OK, Hank. Next time I'll wait around for a number of other replies and explanations before I give my honest evaluation for a trade that is freshly posted. And maybe everyone else should do the same. GL to you, too.

The point is that Doyle doesn't even sniff the top 100 dynasty assets. Heck, he's probably not even in the top 150. To say that trading him throws off the balance of a league is just too strong. He could give Doyle away for free and the league dynamics probably wouldn't change one bit.

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28 minutes ago, lexus said:

Dr. O - I am always competing, never treat any season as a rebuild one - it costs to play each team, each season - and would rather give up a team and go draft a start-up, then to play around in a league for a year or two "rebuilding".

That does not seem like a very stand-up thing to do. I play to win as well, but sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward.

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27 minutes ago, lexus said:

OK, Hank. Next time I'll wait around for a number of other replies and explanations before I give my honest evaluation for a trade that is freshly posted. And maybe everyone else should do the same. GL to you, too.

At best Doyle will finish as a low end TE1 this season. That just isn't as valuable as you are making it seem.

I would have no issue with you saying you would prefer the Doyle side (in a vacuum I may even agree) - but to act like a trade like that threatens the integrity of the league just seemed a little off. I wouldn't even blink if that happened in a redraft league.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

12 team ppr QB - 2 RB - 3WR - TE - FL

Team A gave up Darkwa, Orleans NYG RB;Doyle, Jack IND TE; Year 2018 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team B

Team B gave up Hill, Jeremy CIN RB; Year 2018 Round 4 Draft Pick from Team B

 

The most valuable piece in this trade is the open roster spot Team A created by making it...

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1 minute ago, lexus said:

OK, Hank. Next time I'll wait around for a number of other replies and explanations before I give my honest evaluation for a trade that is freshly posted. And maybe everyone else should do the same. GL to you, too.

Why does someone have to justify their thought process though?  This is a dynasty league dude, you gotta let the owners run their own darn teams.  I'm a full believer in martial law when appropriate, you can't let OBJ for Orleans Darkwa stand, but this isn't that.

It's also hard to believe this is the trade you choose to dump on with some of the other beauties in this thread.  Doyle is a 27 year old 5th year JAG with a career high of 59/584/5 (last year) and 18/118/2 prior to that, and he may have some scrub as his QB week 1 and/or beyond.  Jeremy Hill has actually executed top 5 RB performance.  And he's a UFA at the end of the year.  What if GB signs him next year as a bellcow?  What if PIT lets Bell walk for the comp pick and they sign Hill instead?    12 months from now this could be posted in the Worst Trades You've Been Offered thread.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Well this league does have 30 man rosters in-season (so there's more than enough), but it will help me cut down from 35 to 30.

The larger the roster, the less value the slot, but I think we armchair fantasy analysts usually fall into the trap of only looking at the moving parts.

Darkwa/Doyle for Hill isn't really the trade.  It's Darkwa/Doyle minus a player that now has to be cut, for Hill and a player currently on the waiver wire.  Those two variable pieces DO add value to team A and remove value from team B.

In a league cutdown environment, it makes sense even more often to trade someone below market value, as long as the value lost by trade is less than the value of the player that no longer has to be cut.

I'm sure you factored that in when you made the deal.  I'm just calling attention to that aspect of the valuations because it often seems to be overlooked by those not deeply involved with the teams in question.

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Yea I'd probably take the Hill side of that trade personally. There aren't going to be many if any other young decent RBs available in UFA next year so he could easily find himself landing a starting role, potentially even in a very good spot (Indy will likely be in the market). 

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1 hour ago, Arodin said:

The larger the roster, the less value the slot, but I think we armchair fantasy analysts usually fall into the trap of only looking at the moving parts.

Darkwa/Doyle for Hill isn't really the trade.  It's Darkwa/Doyle minus a player that now has to be cut, for Hill and a player currently on the waiver wire.  Those two variable pieces DO add value to team A and remove value from team B.

In a league cutdown environment, it makes sense even more often to trade someone below market value, as long as the value lost by trade is less than the value of the player that no longer has to be cut.

I'm sure you factored that in when you made the deal.  I'm just calling attention to that aspect of the valuations because it often seems to be overlooked by those not deeply involved with the teams in question.

So many people fail to recognize this.  It's always the case with uneven trades, and it's anywhere from a minor bonus to a big impact in dynasty leagues. 

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3 hours ago, lexus said:

Dr. O - I am always competing, never treat any season as a rebuild one - it costs to play each team, each season - and would rather give up a team and go draft a start-up, then to play around in a league for a year or two "rebuilding". I like your theory & practice as to how to get another owner to agree to trade - but the commissioner in me is more sensitive to all teams becoming competitive since I can't stand by and watch guppies get eaten by the sharks, while the majority of the populace has to just stand by and has zero input.

Obviously, your reasoning is driven by your short-term and long-term objective(s), but isn't obvious in a forum posting where only the assets of a trade are initially posted in a naked fashion - and in this case the 12 team ppr and SLU info really doesn't convey the driving force behind the trade you posted. If you had indicated a "rebuild' effort was underway, maybe it would have soften what was posted. And given that Doyle is basically now the only pass catching TE in Indy, and RB Hill (in your ppr league) is just a RB playing out his rookie contract - without any clear future, NFL-wise and/or fantasy-wise. Doyle might have provided more trade value if you had waited into September's early games, but of course the same could be said for Hill or any other player.

 

Thanks for replying and adding a lot more explanation than the original posting contained. GL in 2017 and beyond.

So you'd rather go for it every year at the expense of the future and then leave the team in bad shape to then cut bait and screw over the league?  Yet you then say the commissioner in you is sensitive to all teams being competitive? You do realize how these statements conflict and as a commissioner I would think you'd be particularly sensitive to the "cut and run" tactics in your first statement.

Redraft is probably your best bet with this mentality.

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2 hours ago, jeaton6 said:

I love Reed but at this point I'd take the other side. Reed just extraordinarily frustrating to own. Always one affliction or another.

I hear that.

But if your goal is to reduce frustration, you might want to reconsider making "Bears WRs" your next alternative...

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3 hours ago, jeaton6 said:

So you'd rather go for it every year at the expense of the future and then leave the team in bad shape to then cut bait and screw over the league?  Yet you then say the commissioner in you is sensitive to all teams being competitive? You do realize how these statements conflict and as a commissioner I would think you'd be particularly sensitive to the "cut and run" tactics in your first statement.

Redraft is probably your best bet with this mentality.

Jeaton - FWIW, I have been in three MFL dynasties for almost 10 years each, entering my 5th year in one FFPC dynasty, and just picked up a second FFPC dynasty orphan late in the off-season (FFPC Rookie Draft date). I trimmed down a couple of MFL dynasties after a couple of years, due to not being comfortable with the commissioners and turnover in those leagues themselves - not because of my rosters therein. And the same is true for another mid-stakes dynasty team after being there two years as well - again for the turnover reason, which tended to result in very successful teams and very unsuccessful teams, and a couple of teams in the middle where I was at worst. My roster was gobbled-up in the blink of an eye, and maybe I'm successful enough to be playing with a minimum outflow of personal monies. And I do also play in a few redraft leagues, in which I cover my expenses plus.

As far as being a commissioner I'm going into my ninth year now, I've seen a lot of turnover in a 16-team full IDP dynasty with an 18 player starting lineup, in which I've never finished first but came close twice, and in order to have an attractive & competitive stable product for the real hobbyists that play this game - I've had to two-step the format down to 14 and then 12 franchises which will endure long after I'm gone from the face of this earth. So, I'm not really a "cut and run" tactician as you mentioned, but one who knows where to put his energies & time to participate and contribute to this great FFB hobby.

Thanks for posting your comments herein, and the best of luck in your continuing career as a dynasty baller. :D:thumbup:

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13 minutes ago, Sebowski said:

 

 

:lol: wat. And why? Or are you trolling me? If not, let's please just not do this. 

I'm incapable of trolling lol ... it's his real nickname tho. 

Fromhis childhood type shizz or something - not something the internet GM's came up with. So it's ok I suppose 

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10 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

For the record I am Team A, and I know what I am doing.

You on the other hand come off a little strange here if you think this deal even remotely affects "competitive parity" or is grossly imbalanced to the point a commissioner should get involved.

For the record I do believe I gave up more value - but it's the only way to trade with this guy. He needs to "win" and while maybe he will I designed this offer to at least create the impression that he will.

In this one league I am in a complete rebuild mode, and while I do like Doyle, TE is by far my deepest position (which is easy to do in a rebuild) and I'm not sure he really is a long term option in Indy. He's a limited talent, but surely good enough to make some impact. I surely do not think Hill will be "comeback player of the year" :lmao: but I do think Mixon is a little over-rated and I do think Hill could possibly hold him off and earn back some value. My rational is that if he does I can flip him inseason for a better package and on the flip side if he is relegated to the Bengals bench then I will wait and see what happens to him next year in free agency. Hill is a talented back who could land a role next season in a place like GB or Indy if their young backs do not work out. By next year I should be able to at least be back in the mix for a playoff spot and having RB depth would help a lot more than having Doyle imo.

 

One glaring omission in your logic, not that it needed to be said, is that you also managed to clear one net roster spot, which is potentially more valuable than any of the other pieces. Seemed like a good deal. Shocked it had to be defended. 

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6 hours ago, Arodin said:

I hear that.

But if your goal is to reduce frustration, you might want to reconsider making "Bears WRs" your next alternative...

Meredith was very successful last year with trash at QB. I think he can deliver a 70/1000/6 type season (and more consistency) and establish himself as a mid to low end WR2. That, plus an up and coming TE tips the scales enough for me to make the move (assuming of course Meredith would start for me).

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4 hours ago, lexus said:

Jeaton - FWIW, I have been in three MFL dynasties for almost 10 years each, entering my 5th year in one FFPC dynasty, and just picked up a second FFPC dynasty orphan late in the off-season (FFPC Rookie Draft date). I trimmed down a couple of MFL dynasties after a couple of years, due to not being comfortable with the commissioners and turnover in those leagues themselves - not because of my rosters therein. And the same is true for another mid-stakes dynasty team after being there two years as well - again for the turnover reason, which tended to result in very successful teams and very unsuccessful teams, and a couple of teams in the middle where I was at worst. My roster was gobbled-up in the blink of an eye, and maybe I'm successful enough to be playing with a minimum outflow of personal monies. And I do also play in a few redraft leagues, in which I cover my expenses plus.

As far as being a commissioner I'm going into my ninth year now, I've seen a lot of turnover in a 16-team full IDP dynasty with an 18 player starting lineup, in which I've never finished first but came close twice, and in order to have an attractive & competitive stable product for the real hobbyists that play this game - I've had to two-step the format down to 14 and then 12 franchises which will endure long after I'm gone from the face of this earth. So, I'm not really a "cut and run" tactician as you mentioned, but one who knows where to put his energies & time to participate and contribute to this great FFB hobby.

Thanks for posting your comments herein, and the best of luck in your continuing career as a dynasty baller. :D:thumbup:

I interpreted your post as if you employed cut and run as a viable play which is extremely annoying (especially to commishes). So it seemed hypocritical to me that a commish would do it in leagues he's not Commishing.  Glad to hear that isn't the case and it was more about just showing how much you hate rebuilding.

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10 hours ago, jeaton6 said:

I interpreted your post as if you employed cut and run as a viable play which is extremely annoying (especially to commishes). So it seemed hypocritical to me that a commish would do it in leagues he's not Commishing.  Glad to hear that isn't the case and it was more about just showing how much you hate rebuilding.

It isn't the "rebuilding" challenge I don't want to take on, but rather the overall scenario in a situation where the powers to be don't understand the cause and effect of their commishing decisions to allow this imbalance of ownership capabilities to continue - leading eventually to the complete evaporation of the enjoyable competitiveness of the hobby in that league. Can you say that you've never been a part of the scenario which I find a waste of resources for classic FFB hobbyists? As commissioner of the one league I've volunteered to administer (with zero compensation for my year long time & efforts), I make it a policy to personally evaluate owners who wish to take over a dynasty franchise which was surrendered for whatever reason the prior/original owner decided he no longer wanted to manage (nor had the time/desire to do so). Allowing inexperienced hobbyists to jump into the deep end of a FFB dynasty pool, is not the way this commissioner is able to maintain a quality, therapeutic, and enjoyable activity for all. Maybe my original wording was partly responsible for your drawing the conclusion which saw me as a regular user of a "cut and run" philosophy to avoid any type of rebuild challenge - which was/is certainly not my intention whatsoever. I do not want to commit to participate as an owner in a scenario where I know I will not be able to provide a competitive challenge and enjoyable experience for all of the league's owners. Besides my basic handful of dynasty leagues each year, I have had to streamline my redraft/draft expert leagues' participation from a past high point of 20 teams in the past down to a handful of redraft teams. And I used the same criteria in making these decisions as I did in giving up the couple of dynasty franchises I owned for 2 to 3 seasons. I have no recriminations nor regrets for any of my past 30 years in our FFB hobby. Again, thanks for taking the time and effort to exchange your thoughts on the hobby with yours truly - and also again the best of success in your coming seasons starting with this 2017 season.

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1 hour ago, lexus said:

It isn't the "rebuilding" challenge I don't want to take on, but rather the overall scenario in a situation where the powers to be don't understand the cause and effect of their commishing decisions to allow this imbalance of ownership capabilities to continue - leading eventually to the complete evaporation of the enjoyable competitiveness of the hobby in that league. Can you say that you've never been a part of the scenario which I find a waste of resources for classic FFB hobbyists? As commissioner of the one league I've volunteered to administer (with zero compensation for my year long time & efforts), I make it a policy to personally evaluate owners who wish to take over a dynasty franchise which was surrendered for whatever reason the prior/original owner decided he no longer wanted to manage (nor had the time/desire to do so). Allowing inexperienced hobbyists to jump into the deep end of a FFB dynasty pool, is not the way this commissioner is able to maintain a quality, therapeutic, and enjoyable activity for all. Maybe my original wording was partly responsible for your drawing the conclusion which saw me as a regular user of a "cut and run" philosophy to avoid any type of rebuild challenge - which was/is certainly not my intention whatsoever. I do not want to commit to participate as an owner in a scenario where I know I will not be able to provide a competitive challenge and enjoyable experience for all of the league's owners. Besides my basic handful of dynasty leagues each year, I have had to streamline my redraft/draft expert leagues' participation from a past high point of 20 teams in the past down to a handful of redraft teams. And I used the same criteria in making these decisions as I did in giving up the couple of dynasty franchises I owned for 2 to 3 seasons. I have no recriminations nor regrets for any of my past 30 years in our FFB hobby. Again, thanks for taking the time and effort to exchange your thoughts on the hobby with yours truly - and also again the best of success in your coming seasons starting with this 2017 season.

And what about the overall scenario in a situation where the powers to be don't understand the cause and effect of their commishing decisions to impose their opinion of what's acceptable and what's not - leading eventually to the complete evaporation of the enjoyable competitiveness of the hobby in that league?

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1 minute ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Big one in Zealots non-ppr

Team A gave up 
Cousins, Kirk WAS QB
THREE 2018 1sts
2018 2nd


Team B gave up 
Bradford, Sam MIN QB 
Bryant, Dez DAL WR 
Nelson, Jordy GBP WR 
2018 3rd 
2018 4th

That would have been a great deal for Team A...4 years ago.

I never understand these rip van winkle trades...

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3 hours ago, Arodin said:

That would have been a great deal for Team A...4 years ago.

I never understand these rip van winkle trades...

Might just depend where the firsts are projected.  If I think all three teams make the playoffs and I need some WRs to put me at the top, then this is an easy trade to make.  Like, super easy.

edit...just noticed it says NON PPR, but I would still easily do it if all three projected playoff IMO.

Oh, and 4 years ago???  You would deal those two guys for three firsts 4 years ago?

Edited by ghostguy123
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I traded WRs T. Williams (LAC) and D. Parker 

for

2018 2nd Rd pick.

i had to make room for my Devy picks JuJu Smith and Mike Williams.

I'd rather trade them away for something than drop them and get nothing. We have a deadline for roster drops before our Rookie/Vet draft.

Tex

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50 minutes ago, BigTex said:

I traded WRs T. Williams (LAC) and D. Parker 

for

2018 2nd Rd pick.

i had to make room for my Devy picks JuJu Smith and Mike Williams.

I'd rather trade them away for something than drop them and get nothing. We have a deadline for roster drops before our Rookie/Vet draft.

Tex

Do you have the option of not activating JuJu or Mike Williams? I would prefer either of the WRs you traded away to either of the WRs you made room for

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All today in the same league (a few deadlines happen tonight). 16 team PPR QRRWWTFKDDD, $400 budget, max 10 contracts (each year, auction is held to fill rosters with guys not signed).

Team A Received: Alshon Jeffery (26), Tyler Higbee (6), DeAngelo Henderson (11), 2019 1st (likely 9-16) - WR needy

Team B Received: Jay Ajayi (21), Mike Williams (17), JJ Nelson (3) - RB needy

------------------------------

Team C Received: Samaje Perine (11)

Team D Received: Donta Foreman (5) - Texas sports fan.

------------------------------

Team E Received: Ty Montgomery (50)

Team F Received: 2018 1st (likely late)

------------------------------

Team B Received: 2019 1st (early to mid)

Team G Received: Rob Kelley ($1)

------------------------------

Team H Received: 2018 1st (likely late), Tyrod Taylor ($12)

Team I Received: Drew Brees ($55)

 

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4 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Wow when is the deadline?  That's brutal value for those guys, could probably have scored a late 1 for each one of them unless it's a very shallow league and everyone else has similar 1st world problems.

I know, it's a week before our draft which is this Sunday. I'm loaded at the position and these two are my weakest links. No one would have given me a 1st for them. My league mates were thinking I was going to drop two WRs to make room on my roster so I'm happy with getting a 2nd.

Tex

Edited by BigTex
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4 hours ago, maf005 said:

Do you have the option of not activating JuJu or Mike Williams? I would prefer either of the WRs you traded away to either of the WRs you made room for

We do have a spot for IR but they have to be on  placed on IR by the NFL. I didn't want to let any of my WRs go but I was stuck in a hard spot.

Tex

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13 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

And what about the overall scenario in a situation where the powers to be don't understand the cause and effect of their commishing decisions to impose their opinion of what's acceptable and what's not - leading eventually to the complete evaporation of the enjoyable competitiveness of the hobby in that league?

Yup, a lot of less than optimum situations exist in various FFB formats, and the longer term results can/will transition into oblivion for obvious reasons. I really dislike receiving the death keel email from a league's commissioner, who didn't see the handwriting on the wall or on league MB or chat windows - or in personal emails from owners to commissioners directly.

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5 hours ago, BigTex said:

I know, it's a week before our draft which is this Sunday. I'm loaded at the position and these two are my weakest links. No one would have given me a 1st for them. My league mates were thinking I was going to drop two WRs to make room on my roster so I'm happy with getting a 2nd.

Tex

No, your weakest links are JuJu and M. Williams.  You traded away the better players for free basically.  

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8 hours ago, BigTex said:

I know, it's a week before our draft which is this Sunday. I'm loaded at the position and these two are my weakest links. No one would have given me a 1st for them. My league mates were thinking I was going to drop two WRs to make room on my roster so I'm happy with getting a 2nd.

Tex

Not to dump on you, but no way I make this deal now.  Your league has to have one guy smart enough to realize that they could make a better offer than this and still be stealing from you.  I would cut a kicker, defense, a backup QB.  Plenty of time to fill in those roster spots, but you can never recover the lost value after a trade like that.  Hell after the draft trade Parker for what he's actually worth and get a kicker as a throw-in.

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4 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Not to dump on you, but no way I make this deal now.  Your league has to have one guy smart enough to realize that they could make a better offer than this and still be stealing from you.  I would cut a kicker, defense, a backup QB.  Plenty of time to fill in those roster spots, but you can never recover the lost value after a trade like that.  Hell after the draft trade Parker for what he's actually worth and get a kicker as a throw-in.

Lol, no worries. That's not how our league works we have specific slots, a minimum and maximum (WR 11-13) amount we can carry at each position and those positions must be filled accordingly. I'm over my max for WRs. My only choice was to dump them and they become FA eligible to be drafted or trade them for what I can.

I already have K. Allen and M. Williams so T. Williams (who I picked off the WW which costed me nothing) was my choice didn't want 3 WRs from the same team and Parker just can't stay healthy. I know he's getting a lot of buzz right now but neither of these guys would make my starting lineup anyway.

OBJ, Cooper and Dez are my starters with Cooks, Hopkins, Benjamin, K. Allen, Doctson, Coleman, and White either in rotation or on the bench. I have WR Sutton coming in next year (if he declares).

I don't like trading players for picks because it's too much of a gamble unless it's a top 3 pick even then it's no guarantee you'll hit. So I get what you guys are saying but considering my situation I'm happy with the pick. 

Tex

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18 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Big one in Zealots non-ppr

Team A gave up 
Cousins, Kirk WAS QB
THREE 2018 1sts
2018 2nd


Team B gave up 
Bradford, Sam MIN QB 
Bryant, Dez DAL WR 
Nelson, Jordy GBP WR 
2018 3rd 
2018 4th

Team B wins this in a landslide.  I would think Team B would have won it if it was just 2 2018 1sts.

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28 minutes ago, Raback said:

 

I much prefer T. Williams and Parker to JuJU and M. Williams in dynasty but obviously everyone has different values on players. 

Williams was tough to trade I like him a lot but IMHO, K. Allen (Healthy)>>>>>>T. Williams and M. Williams was a top NFL pick so that leaves T. Williams. The owner I traded with has a weak team so this pick will be (11-13) pick the 2018 class has the potential to be better than the 2017 class (RB and WR). Also IMHO no matter who I traded away from my WRs I was going to lose some value. I never believed this was a "good" trade for me. It's difficult sometimes trying to figure future value of a player. I do trade a lot to build a solid team so I could flip this pick along with a player or another pick to get a better player than the ones I traded away so the jury is still out on this trade. So it depends on what I get in return with the pick.

Sorry guys, not to derail this thread just given you some feedback on how and why things worked out the way it did.

Tex

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Had this one go down in one of my leagues

2QB 3WR 2RB 2TE 2Flex spots.  .5ppr 10 team league

Team A got:  Austin Hooper, 2018 1st (probably mid)

Team B got:  Deshaun Watson, Duke Johnson, Jay Cutler

* Team B needed a backup QB, already has Carr and Mariota.  Also his only RB of note is Ajayi.  

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  • Gottabesweet changed the title to ****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****

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