northern exposure
Footballguy
How do your RBs look? I have had some success gathering WR strength in non-ppr Zealots, but have had little to no success flipping WRs for RBs.
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Spike
Footballguy
northern exposure
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
jeaton6
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
To get anything out of Demaryius is a win at this stage. Looks like a great trade IMO as I would take the 2.02 alone and think it was a win. Mariota is gravy and gives him some ammo to take advantage of a QB hungry team.
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Obviously depends on the rosters but I think in a vacuum Edelman and Pierre.
Again, in a vacuum MM and the pick. If he's able to trade Jimmy or Watson this will look even better.
I do expect Thomas to bounce back a bit, so I don't mind that side.
JPeso
Footballguy
No chance I’m dealing DT for this if I’m competitive if I still owned him. I don’t expect Mariota to ever be top-flight and 2.2 isn’t enough for me. Rather keep the WR2-WR3 points from DT and put a couple young WRs behind him on the bench.
To give a sense of QB value in FFPC to those not in the format, a guy like Mariota I’ve seen dealt for a 3rd and didn’t think it was lopsided.
-OZ-
Footballguy
This is my largest complaint with most leagues. Good young QBs should be worth more than that, imo.
One More Rep
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Don’t hate this for him, if hill gets meaningful carries in NE he’s young enough to have some value. The 4s for 3.4 is close so I look at it as hill for a future 2nd. Maybe he should have offered hill for the 3.4 instead, but I think hill in NE has about as good a chance to provide ffl value as a future 2nd in what has been described as a weaker class (although I haven’t begun looking at 2019).
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...this is a deal that needs to be revisited after the draft...if the Pats do not use a decent pick on a RB (and I hope they do) Hill will be in a spot to be the next Blount (and possibly a bit more as far as the passing game goes)...I think a lot of owners always look to the future when a guy like Hill could be a savior in 2018...that is far from a definite but come week 10 or 11 when you are fighting for a playoff spot and your RB unit has injury issues you could be very thankful you have a player like him on your roster...that being said that #2 could also be flipped for an RB at that point...
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Boston
Footballguy
I am OK with this...you get a decent pick and my guess is the owner can now flip a QB and/or that pick for something better than Thomas while still having quality QB depth...I see this as a bridge to another deal...
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Atomic Punk
Footballguy
I dealt made a couple of deals this week including another DT trade.
Gave: 2.03, 2.06
Got: DT
Gave: ASJ, 1.06, 1.07, 2.04
Got: 1.02 and M. Jones
The first deal might have been a slight overpay but I'm making a strong run and needed some depth at WR. DT is very underrated and should have improved QB play this year. I expect a boost for him and Sanders. In the second deal I was targeting Jones, as I felt he is another under valued WR but we ended up with the bigger deal that netted the 1.02.
Gave: 2.03, 2.06
Got: DT
Gave: ASJ, 1.06, 1.07, 2.04
Got: 1.02 and M. Jones
The first deal might have been a slight overpay but I'm making a strong run and needed some depth at WR. DT is very underrated and should have improved QB play this year. I expect a boost for him and Sanders. In the second deal I was targeting Jones, as I felt he is another under valued WR but we ended up with the bigger deal that netted the 1.02.
Agree it makes no sense to go after a QB with all of those. If it's real FFPC and not FFPC rules it's off the charts bad.
But in a vacuum I think it's close and view DT's value about on par with 2.2, more or less depending how bad I need WR/competing. I'm not very high on DT, have not been for a few years.
I think the big if is whether hill gets carries...with white, burkhead and gillisee I don't really expect hill to be the front runner for carries. I agree his value got a little bump which I was happy for cause I couldn't even get a third Rd pick for him when I was shopping him last year.
im also kind of in a rebuild, will be adding Barkley and another top rookie at 1.4 to go with a semi decent lineup so I was very happy to give up the fourths to climb up into early third which actually gives me 3.1-3.4 so should be able to either move up into the second this year or grab another 2019 second. I also think a big thing is he is probably the front runner to be next years 1.1 so the trade doesn't really make sense for him
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
That's a fair statement. Especially in FF.
But he's still worth more than a 3rd in my leagues.
gianmarco
Footballguy
One of the most overrated fantasy players at this point.
2015 -- QB18 in ppg at 20.7
2016 -- QB15 in ppg at 20.2
2017 -- QB22 in ppg at 17.2
He's a liability at QB. Good enough that you don't want to cut but a very below average starter compared to other teams. At this point, there's a strong possibility that this is just who he is.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Playing for Mike Mularkey will do that to a guy.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I thought he was pretty dang good in 2016. It's also uncommon for QBs to offer much VBD in their first 3 seasons. Guys like Stafford, Wentz, and Luck are the exception. Guys like Brady, Ben, and Ryan took at least 3 years to start paying off for their dynasty owners.
I'm not sure we disagree on Mariota - I've cooled on him and am not looking to target him. I just think he showed promise during his sophomore campaign, and that it's too early to write him off.
Edit: Though to be fair, running QBs do typically produce earlier than QBs who don't add rushing production. In that sense, I suppose Mariota is behind.
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
So will being an average talent. It's not like I would expect a Vrabel-lead team to have a radically different strategy either.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
12 team PPR - Q|RR|WW|T|FF
Mixon, Joe CIN RB; Year 2018 Draft Pick 3.02
for
Brate, Cameron TBB TE; Year 2018 Draft Pick 1.05
Not involved. Feels light for Mixon, IMO.
Mixon, Joe CIN RB; Year 2018 Draft Pick 3.02
for
Brate, Cameron TBB TE; Year 2018 Draft Pick 1.05
Not involved. Feels light for Mixon, IMO.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I expect it to be completely different. We have some idea what Matt LaFleur might be like after working closely with Shanahan and MacVey.
Goff looked terrible playing for Jeff Fisher. Then competence arrived.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I don't doubt LaFleur so much as I am pretty skeptical Vrable is going to let it get opened up like that. McVey is the Head Coach, no one is going to tell him to run a draw on 3rd and 6 and punt it. Vrabel might take a lot of air out of the football before LaFleur even gets involved.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I'd spin this an entirely different way.
Only 10 QB's averaged 20 fantasy points a game last year. He failed to do that last year but did it at 21 and 22 years old with a deadly combo of bad coaching and bad weapons. I think he just had a bad year and combo of better coaching and improved weapons(I anticipate internal growth from rookie's last year) and I think we'll see that the 2017 year was the anomaly. Frankly with Mularkey as your head coach and your best WR for your entire career being Rishard Matthews it's kind of impressive he's been able to do what he has.
gianmarco
Footballguy
10 QBs doing that is a lot. That's 1/3rd of the league and in a standard 12 team league, that's all but 1 opponent spread out evenly.
Unless your starting fantasy QB is averaging 23-24 PPG, you are giving up way too much on a regular basis. The good news is that you can typically find a QB to give you that even on the WW or relatively cheaply when it's a lesser name doing it. The bad news is guys like Mariota and Winston make that difficult because it's hard to give up on them due to "potential" but end up costing you.
Owning the elite guys at QB pays off in the long run and I've learned to jump ship early to keep searching for one if I don't see it early on.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
And Mariota wasn't even one of those 10. It's such a weird point and all it does is re-affirm how bad he was last year to finish way down as QB22 in a down year for QB scoring.
"If we take Mariota's career best year and compare those points to a different season where QB scoring as a whole was way down he barely creeps in as a bottom of the barrel QB1!!"
Yay?
First off I was wrong and there were 11 QB's in FFPC scoring that hit 20 fantasy points a game, not 10 Qb's. But 11 is not even a full 12 team league and a lot of teams sit on more than one QB. These are reasons I don't view Mariotta as a liability and why finding one on the waiver wire has gotten more challenging then in past years. Just two years ago you had 21-22 QB's go over 20 PPG in FFPC scoring(Geno played one game, kind of want to throw him out). Granted last year we had a heavy amount of QB injuries but since using average PPG only one really impacted was Luck. We only had 3 QB's go over 23 PPG a last year and two of them had season ending ACL injuries.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I'm kind of changing my tune on the QB position in FFPC. I used to hate idea of carrying two, rarely did it. Had teams in past if we did not have to keep a QB I would not keep one. Now I'm carrying two on every team. Overly reactionary on my part? Maybe. But I had some really good teams last year, dynasty and redraft, that struggled mightily at QB, teams I'd have spend multiple hundred of my FAAB to get a 20 PPG QB.
Flip side of that argument is in last 12 months I've seen QB's like Big Ben, Ryan, Carr get traded or drafted in rookie draft for 3rd-5th round picks. Rookie draft in that 3-5 round range of FFPC is usually a great time to address your QB. So can see merit of not valuing a second QB of the ilk of Mariotta. But after my experience last year,if I can carve out room for a second high upside QB or proven QB I'm inclined to want to keep them. Might see it different next year, but after last year I'm actually starting to put more priority on making sure I got a good QB.
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What's weird to me is seeing a player have a down year and ignoring his past as if that's what he is now.
jeaton6
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I'd take the picks over DT. I like the second one a lot, however. Put them both together and I like your side.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'm not ignoring his past. That's exactly why I'm not high on him. He's never been that good.
He might get better. But I'd rather bet on a guy like Dak that put up elite numbers even if over a small sample.
Atomic Punk
Footballguy
I'd agree with you 9 times out of 10 but I think it will work in my favor this year for a shot at the title. DT is a forgotten man in the FF community but he is about as consistent WR2 as you'll find. Still only 30 and should have at least 3 more solid seasons in him before he starts to fade.
buck naked
Footballguy
This is a good year to really find out about Mariota. If he can't do it with an OC from the Sean McVay coaching tree, then you will be 100% right. LaFleur needs to turn Mariota loose running and passing. He's been bottled way too long.
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I made a direct reply to you in a post and you chose to quote me on a comment directed at someone else? Whatever. He's already shown he's good, both real and fantasy, he just had a down year and has yet to show if he is elite or a QB1. No different than a lot of long time highly successful fantasy and HOF QB's and a lot of them probably had it better in the early parts of their career then Mularkey as your head coach and Rishard Mathews your best WR. Happy to discuss this further in a different thread but done on this subject in this one.
tkrull
Footballguy
IMO, while Williams looks like he has a role in 2018, guys with his talent level sooner or later get replaced.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
12 team PPR TE 1.5
Team A gives Ebron, 3.01
Team B gives Booker
Team A gives Ebron, 3.01
Team B gives Booker
14 team tiered PPR and .25 per carry superflex start 1 of each position and then 5 flex spots with one for a QB
involved-
I gave: AJ Green, 1.12 and 2019 first
I got: Leonard Fournette
Not involved-
Team A gave: Mitch Trubisky
Team B gave: Derrick Henry
Team C gave: David Johnson, Sam Bradford and Donte Monecrief
Team D gave: Kirk Cousins, Devin Funchess, 1.10
involved-
I gave: AJ Green, 1.12 and 2019 first
I got: Leonard Fournette
Not involved-
Team A gave: Mitch Trubisky
Team B gave: Derrick Henry
Team C gave: David Johnson, Sam Bradford and Donte Monecrief
Team D gave: Kirk Cousins, Devin Funchess, 1.10
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foxco
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
Wow. That’s nothing for DJ.
I originally thought you overpaid for Fournette, but I think it’s pretty even.
I’d take my chances with Henry over Trubisky.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Greg Little? damn didn't realize he was still in the NFL. With the uncertainty of OBJ I'll take the Cooper/Ertz side right now.
Boston
Footballguy
This is an example of something that has been discussed...the no reason add on...if you can get OBJ for Cooper and Ertz you'd be real happy...how does Kittle get added in as well...as for the trade this makes no sense for the OBJ owner...if you are going to trade a legit stud you need to be overwhelmed...that is not happening here...if last year was not a fluke for Cooper this deal could be a complete train wreck...Bazinga! said:
Matt's Eagles
Footballguy
12 team .5 PPR
Team A got 2019 projected late 1st rounder
Team B got K Drake, TJ Yeldon, 4.2, 4.9
Team A got 2019 projected late 1st rounder
Team B got K Drake, TJ Yeldon, 4.2, 4.9
gianmarco
Footballguy
First of all, I somehow missed your reply to me. When I clicked on going to latest post, it was at the next one for me. And I typically agree with much of what you post here so don't take our differing takes here personally. It's not, at all.menobrown said:
Reading your post to me, I actually agree with most of what you are saying. I definitely think it's important to have a good QB and we have started carrying 2 regularly as well. We also like to make sure we have an elite option if possible. And as you pointed out, it's not too hard to get a guy like Ben or Rivers or even Stafford with 3rd-5ths during the draft.
Without beating the dead horse, I think you can easily find an option in any given year that can give you close to what MM is giving you now. So those saying he's worth more than a 3rd, I just don't agree there. I'd rather sell for the 3rd, use a later pick for a WW guy or bid on someone like Alex Smith last year that is hot for a year. I just don't like to stash 20-21 PPG QBs. And FWIW, I felt this way about him after his 2nd year. I had no idea how bad he was this past year so my thoughts have nothing to do with 2017. If a QB hasn't shown much early on, I churn the spot hoping to hit the next Wentz. Holding a guy like MM makes that harder to do, IMO.
Anyway, it's all good and sorry to beat this one down. Very much appreciate your input here.
