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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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Sammy Watkins always seems to get traded away for nothing. People are just so disappointed in him or something. 

Tyrell Williams probably is about to get a value increase when he gets signed to a biggish contract this offseason.  It could be a McKinnon sized value increase if he goes to the right place... Particularly the same place McKinnon went... 

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10 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Sammy Watkins always seems to get traded away for nothing. People are just so disappointed in him or something. 

 

Don't they have good reason?  How many years have to go by with everyone holding him in such high esteem?

Edited by JohnnyU
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34 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Don't they have good reason?  How many years have to go by with everyone holding him in such high esteem?

He's actually probably a bit over-valued in reality due to his name and "potential". The guy has just not produced like the stud he's assumed to be.+

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6 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

No? I guess I don't think giving a player away far under his value presumably because of your emotions is good reasoning in a practical roster construction sense. 

His last 3 years says otherwise.

28/430/2

39/593/8

40/519/3

How long do we ignore that, regardless of injuries?  He doesn't justify the hype.  Sometimes a player is exactly who we think they are.

Edited by JohnnyU
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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

His last 3 years says otherwise.

28/430/2

39/593/8

40/519/3

How long do we ignore that, regardless of injuries?  It doesn't justify the hype.

I didn't say anything about how good he is or that his hype is justified.  I said it's not smart to give him away for nothing when you can get a late 1st or more.

Take Watkins out of the above trade entirely and the Golladay side still wins. 

 

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1 minute ago, kittenmittens said:

I didn't say anything about how good he is or that his hype is justified.  I said it's not smart to give him away for nothing when you can get a late 1st or more.

Take Watkins out of the above trade entirely and the Golladay side still wins. 

 

I watched Golladay all year. I don't think he beats Ridley and Williams alone.  

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8 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

I didn't say anything about how good he is or that his hype is justified.  I said it's not smart to give him away for nothing when you can get a late 1st or more.

Take Watkins out of the above trade entirely and the Golladay side still wins. 

 

I think Ridley will be good and I prefer him over Galladay, but I also think Galladay is good, so I wouldn't have made that trade (as is) myself.   Watkins is and has been overrated.  Alone, I actually prefer Ridley over Galladay, but I consider Williams meh.  I would have gone for something other than Williams, but I definitely see myself trading Galladay in a deal for Ridley.

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Just now, kittenmittens said:

I didn't say anything about how good he is or that his hype is justified.  I said it's not smart to give him away for nothing when you can get a late 1st or more.

Take Watkins out of the above trade entirely and the Golladay side still wins. 

 

I'm not sure you can get a late first for him anymore. It's possible in some leagues maybe you can but after multiple years of putting up stats like JohnnyU listed, people are finally getting a little leery.

I don't see that trade as very far off - I think a legit argument can be made for Ridley over Golladay and at this point Williams likely has more of a chance of seeing a bump in value than Watkins if free agency lands him somewhere that he would be the top option in the passing game.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm not sure you can get a late first for him anymore. It's possible in some leagues maybe you can but after multiple years of putting up stats like JohnnyU listed, people are finally getting a little leery.

I don't see that trade as very far off - I think a legit argument can be made for Ridley over Golladay and at this point Williams likely has more of a chance of seeing a bump in value than Watkins if free agency lands him somewhere that he would be the top option in the passing game.

Ridley outscored Golladay by five points in non-PPR standard this year.  

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Ridley outscored Golladay by five points in non-PPR standard this year.  

Those two are close, but it's the other player in the deal (Williams) that I don't like.  I definitely would have traded Galladay and Watkins for Ridley and a late 1st in rookie drafts, maybe an early 2nd.

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Those two are close, but it's the other player in the deal (Williams) that I don't like.  I definitely would have traded Galladay and Watkins for Ridley and a late 1st in rookie drafts, maybe an early 2nd.

Yep. 

But Williams also outscored Watkins, just to finish the point.  It's not nearly the landslide the posters were making it out to be.

eta* But I see your point, depending on how you value the player and the pick and other considerations.  

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14 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm not sure you can get a late first for him anymore. It's possible in some leagues maybe you can but after multiple years of putting up stats like JohnnyU listed, people are finally getting a little leery.

I don't see that trade as very far off - I think a legit argument can be made for Ridley over Golladay and at this point Williams likely has more of a chance of seeing a bump in value than Watkins if free agency lands him somewhere that he would be the top option in the passing game.

I'm in two PPR startups drafting right now where 2019 picks are draftable.  In the first one, Watkins went right after the 1.06 and before the 1.07.  In the other startup he went right after the 1.11 and before the 1.12.

Golladay went in the 4th round in both.  Ridley went in the 7th round in both. 

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5 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

I'm in two PPR startups drafting right now where 2019 picks are draftable.  In the first one, Watkins went right after the 1.06 and before the 1.07.  In the other startup he went right after the 1.11 and before the 1.12.

Golladay went in the 4th round in both.  Ridley went in the 7th round in both. 

That doesn't justify it because of his lack of production the last 3 years.  There are always some players that we overrate far too long and Watkins might be one of those players.

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11 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

I'm in two PPR startups drafting right now where 2019 picks are draftable.  In the first one, Watkins went right after the 1.06 and before the 1.07.  In the other startup he went right after the 1.11 and before the 1.12.

Golladay went in the 4th round in both.  Ridley went in the 7th round in both. 

Well two anecdotal accounts doesn't really change what I said - and start ups are a different animal than an established league (but not saying your information isn't relevant). Like I said I'm sure in some leagues you may be able to move Watkins for a late first but in many you would be turned down.

For the record I'd take the Golladay/Watkins side also - I just did not see it as so one sided or "Watkins for free". I wouldn't be shocked if one year from now the Ridley/Williams side looks like the better side.

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Golladay looked lost as a WR1 on his own team when Tate left and Jones was injured. They were rolling coverages over to him and he couldn't get separation. Patricia just bought in a run-oriented OC. Ridley will also be single-covered with Julio there. The situations are always shifting and this is one of them. 

The Lions need a WR1 for Golladay to be effective right now. That's right now, though, and I wouldn't be shocked if either of them won the trade.  

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44 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

That doesn't justify it because of his lack of production the last 3 years.  There are always some players that we overrate far too long and Watkins might be one of those players.

Doesn't justify what?  All in saying is that his value is around a late first right now.  Why give him away for nothing? 

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39 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Well two anecdotal accounts doesn't really change what I said - and start ups are a different animal than an established league (but not saying your information isn't relevant). Like I said I'm sure in some leagues you may be able to move Watkins for a late first but in many you would be turned down.

For the record I'd take the Golladay/Watkins side also - I just did not see it as so one sided or "Watkins for free". I wouldn't be shocked if one year from now the Ridley/Williams side looks like the better side.

If you have a larger sample of recent ADP data to quote I'd be interested in knowing what that looks like right now. 

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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

If you have a larger sample of recent ADP data to quote I'd be interested in knowing what that looks like right now. 

I think I was clear in saying start up value does not always equate to established league trade value. I also said your information is not irrelevant. I'll admit when I say I don't think you can get a late first for Watkins in most leagues that speculation is based on a limited sample size of my five leagues and general consensus from reading these boards.

You are correct in saying he still does have name recognition and many people still consider his "potential" when assessing his value, I and a few others were merely saying at this point maybe that should no longer be the case.

I still don't see anything wrong with that trade or see it as blatantly one sided - we'll see what it looks like down the road I guess.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think I was clear in saying start up value does not always equate to established league trade value. I also said your information is not irrelevant. I'll admit when I say I don't think you can get a late first for Watkins in most leagues that speculation is based on a limited sample size of my five leagues and general consensus from reading these boards.

You are correct in saying he still does have name recognition and many people still consider his "potential" when assessing his value, I and a few others were merely saying at this point maybe that should no longer be the case.

I still don't see anything wrong with that trade or see it as blatantly one sided - we'll see what it looks like down the road I guess.

Sure, I appreciate your view here. Just to be clear I'm not really trying to argue.  I would love to see a larger sample size recent Adp, but just because it would be a data point with more reliable consensus value information. 

I agree with you both that his actual value probably isn't as high as his perceived value. 

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19 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Doesn't justify what?  All in saying is that his value is around a late first right now.  Why give him away for nothing? 

I wouldn't give a late 1st rd rookie pick for Watkins.  I wouldn't even give an early 2nd.  ....but that's me.

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

I didn't say anything about how good he is or that his hype is justified.  I said it's not smart to give him away for nothing when you can get a late 1st or more.

Take Watkins out of the above trade entirely and the Golladay side still wins. 

 

Dude. Nobody is giving a late 1st for Watkins at this point.

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13 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Dude. Nobody is giving a late 1st for Watkins at this point.

Except for those two people in my startups who effectively just did by drafting him ahead of late firsts... One guy drafted him ahead of 1.07. Rich Dotson also just said he prefers Watkins to a late first on the latest podcast. 

I'm going to take anything further to the Watkins thread. 

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14 hours ago, Mimo said:

12 Team PPR

Team A got Kenny Golladay and Sammy Watkins

Team B got Calvin Ridley and Tyrell Williams

I see a lot of chatter about this trade, sorry did not have time to read it all, when  I saw initial comments to this trade last night I was little surprised.

To me Ridley followed by Golladay are best two players in this trade.  Right now I'd take Watkins over Williams but it's close and for sure subject to change when Williams actually signs with someone.  So right now I ranked the players in this trade as Ridley, Golladay, Watkins and Williams and all in all felt it was pretty even but I'd have sided with Ridley side if I had to choose and that's got to more to do with how highly I view him then anything negative on Golladay.

As for Watkins he was not that terrible last year when healthy and I felt was actually coming on a little. But he's got two issues that lower his value to me. He's not been as healthy as you'd like and when it's a recurring foot issue that's a big red flag to me, not just random bad luck. That to me is his number one concern. The other issue is unless he takes a giant pay cut he's likely on his last year in KC. Contract only has two more years on it but with their need to extend Hill and shortly Mahomes I think Watkins is going to have a tough time seeing that $13.75M he is due in 2020.  Recurring foot issues and Sammy having to learn a new offense in 1-2 years is not a strong outlook.  Still take him over Tyrell right now but again maybe not in about 6 weeks or so.

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Except for those two people in my startups who effectively just did by drafting him ahead of late firsts... One guy drafted him ahead of 1.07. Rich Dotson also just said he prefers Watkins to a late first on the latest podcast. 

I'm going to take anything further to the Watkins thread. 

I stand corrected.

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On 2/6/2019 at 12:41 PM, Live To Ride said:

12 team 1 point per rec. 

Team A gave up Tyrell  Williams  LAC WR

Team B gave up Year 2019 Round 3 Draft Pick{ pic 3.1}

That's ridiculous.  At least tell me it's an IDP league so that 3.01 has some actual roster value.

 

7 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

I'm in two PPR startups drafting right now where 2019 picks are draftable.  In the first one, Watkins went right after the 1.06 and before the 1.07.  In the other startup he went right after the 1.11 and before the 1.12. 

Golladay went in the 4th round in both.  Ridley went in the 7th round in both.  

Why wouldn't you tell us the rounds Watkins went in so we have a full comparison?

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16 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

That's ridiculous.  At least tell me it's an IDP league so that 3.01 has some actual roster value.

 

Why wouldn't you tell us the rounds Watkins went in so we have a full comparison?

Watkins went in rounds 8 and 10.  Tyrell went in the 15th in both. 

So for anecdotal small sample startup ADP,  the trade involving these payers was a 4th and a 9th for a 7th and a 15th.

I don't think Golladay is a4th round value FWIW, wasn't me who picked him there in either. 

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16 minutes ago, Aunt Jemima said:

FFPC

Gave Curtis Samuel, pick 3.12

Got pick 2.3

2.3 for me because I own Samuel on two FFPC teams and have not really considered him a keeper or would keep him on any teams for that matter when cuts are due. I did see the latest trade value chart that Dan Hindery put together and he had Samuel with decent value and over some players I would easily keep over Samuels so based on that chart this seems reasonable, but for me I'd take the 2.3 easily.

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10 hours ago, Deuceman said:

12 Team PPR

Team A gave Christian Kirk

Team B got Marlon Mack

Even kind of trade that would depend on team makeup. Like Kingsbury hire for Kirk and have a lot more confidence he'll be a long term piece but if I'm not deep at RB  I'd hold Mack. Obvious concern with a player like Mack this time of year is what comp might the Colts bring in at RB, his value jumps if he survives FA and draft without Colts bringing in big time comp but right now a little concern that I'd have to factor in his price. Post FA and draft if all goes well this trade swings to Mack side no matter team makeup.

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Just now, 32 Counter Pass said:

Meno, you playing the long game or do you believe Freeman is done?

Long game and what I view as potential for more upside.

Discussed this trade in the Penny thread and mentioned that same day I did this trade I took Freeman at 4.4 of my current FFPC Best Ball league, that I felt he was a 15 PPG since he lost Kyle Shanahan and that's what I still think he is and that's a rock  solid RB2 if healthy and right now I don't have a big reason to be concerned he won't be and that a drawback to this trade was potentially weakening my team and improving a competitor. 

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10 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

Agree with your take. Just curious, what does your roster look like after the trade?

All to happy to talk about my team but don't want to clog trade thread so I'll try and be brief, sometimes people ask my teams and I come across like this guy: How ya doing

This is my worst FFPC team, in that sense it's the team I could least afford to give away a key contributor. 

The other angle is I often look at startup drafts to get picture of overall value of my team and redrafts to get idea of current prognosis.  In redraft I don't have a player who is a lock first round pick, 3 that usually go in the second.  Then I got a chunk of players who likely are late third-6th round picks in redraft. So next year a solid team with depth is what it looks like right now, not jammed packed with front line studs.  Most are really young, Freeman was my old guy,  so in dynasty they get bumped up but still not enough meat at the top.  Deep where in a startup I'm closing in on a situation were soon I'd anticipate 12-13 of my keepers would be chosen before close of 5th-6th round of a startup but feel need for more big time studs. So in that sense this team more then any team of mine needed to try and convert a double(Freeman) into a potential homerun.

Watson

Cook, Guice, Cohen, Tevin, Penny

Tyreek, JuJu, Corey Davis

Henry, Ebron, Goedert

Those players above are locks. 4-5 guys vying for last two spots with Callaway safe to say in the lead for one, premium pick 3 and solid pick 10 to work with. It's a solid team in a league that has some good teams but the highest scoring team in this league would have been no better then third highest scoring team in my other leagues so in that sense no super teams either.  I feel like I need more studs or I'm going to be more in that 3-6 team kind of range hoping to catch lighting in a bottle in playoffs.

 

 

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