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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (22 Viewers)

Do you think he pushes Freeman out? Pr that he just does more with what he is given? or something else?(not trying to out words in your mouth)
I think the coaching staff would like to see Freeman take on more of a role actually but I have a very low opinion of him and don't think he's up to it. I think Freeman is Zac Stacy part 2, been saying that since pre-draft process last year. A spare. Saying that I took Freeman in several redrafts last year because when you are the guy at RB you can produce fantasy points, even Zac Stacy as an example gave some production. I was a lot more invested in Freeman then Lindsay last year and saying that, that I spent about every week pulling for Freeman and against Lindsay, I felt it was not close with respect to Lindsay being night and day better and that I watched their games all year last year knowing I blew it, that I invested in the wrong guy due to draft pedigree and size.

I think Lindsay was heavily under utilized in the passing game and has a ton of statistical growth as a receiver which will more than make up for any possible dip in rushing efficiency. And really no reason to expect a dip in efficiency other he was just so efficient at it but when everything around you is better not sure it's so valid to expect him to dip but if we want to play the regression to the mean game I think what he can contribute as a receiver can make up for it and then some.

You bring up Cohen in an earlier post and both are small but really both were got their production in different ways. I'm fond Cohen but if Cohen produced rushing numbers like Lindsay and Lindsay produced receiving numbers like Cohen we'd be talking about 21+PPG studs.  I'm not sure Cohen will grow much as a runner but I do think Lindsay has a lot of growth potential in the receiving game, I'd be pretty surprised if Cohen ever ran for 1,000 yards, I'd not be surprised if Lindsay evolved into a 70 catch RB. That's the something else.

 
I may have just went on a long spiel about we've not seen the best of Lindsday but this seems super stout for him, would take the other side easily.
The “late” is firm. League winner with one of those crazy rosters - starting Barkley, Zeke, Kamara, and Mixon in the RB/flex spots, for example. 

Is the 1.11 or 1.12 a year from now and Samuels really too much for Lindsay? 

Perhaps I’m low on Samuels, as I was stoked to get Lindsay for this.

 
I think the coaching staff would like to see Freeman take on more of a role actually but I have a very low opinion of him and don't think he's up to it. I think Freeman is Zac Stacy part 2, been saying that since pre-draft process last year. A spare. Saying that I took Freeman in several redrafts last year because when you are the guy at RB you can produce fantasy points, even Zac Stacy as an example gave some production. I was a lot more invested in Freeman then Lindsay last year and saying that, that I spent about every week pulling for Freeman and against Lindsay, I felt it was not close with respect to Lindsay being night and day better and that I watched their games all year last year knowing I blew it, that I invested in the wrong guy due to draft pedigree and size.

I think Lindsay was heavily under utilized in the passing game and has a ton of statistical growth as a receiver which will more than make up for any possible dip in rushing efficiency. And really no reason to expect a dip in efficiency other he was just so efficient at it but when everything around you is better not sure it's so valid to expect him to dip but if we want to play the regression to the mean game I think what he can contribute as a receiver can make up for it and then some.

You bring up Cohen in an earlier post and both are small but really both were got their production in different ways. I'm fond Cohen but if Cohen produced rushing numbers like Lindsay and Lindsay produced receiving numbers like Cohen we'd be talking about 21+PPG studs.  I'm not sure Cohen will grow much as a runner but I do think Lindsay has a lot of growth potential in the receiving game, I'd be pretty surprised if Cohen ever ran for 1,000 yards, I'd not be surprised if Lindsay evolved into a 70 catch RB. That's the something else.
Thanks for this. Nice to see where you are coming from and it's hard to argue against a lot of what you said. 

I find myself down on several smaller RBs right now (Cohen, Lindsay, A Jones), so it's very possible it's just a bias on my part. Also, Jones and Lindsay are in new systems, which concerns me. 

I agree, Lindsay can grow in the passing game and that's one area I liked about him before the season last year. 

I could very well be dead wrong on these guys, and chances are I am. In Lindsay's case it comes down to if you think Freeman has what it takes or not. 

 
The “late” is firm. League winner with one of those crazy rosters - starting Barkley, Zeke, Kamara, and Mixon in the RB/flex spots, for example. 

Is the 1.11 or 1.12 a year from now and Samuels really too much for Lindsay? 

Perhaps I’m low on Samuels, as I was stoked to get Lindsay for this.


Even with the late firm I think the high end talent in the 2020 draft will push solid talent to back end of round one but an essential pick 12 type guarantee does take a lot of the luster of that pick and makes this more in-line, a reasonable trade.

 
The “late” is firm. League winner with one of those crazy rosters - starting Barkley, Zeke, Kamara, and Mixon in the RB/flex spots, for example. 

Is the 1.11 or 1.12 a year from now and Samuels really too much for Lindsay? 

Perhaps I’m low on Samuels, as I was stoked to get Lindsay for this.
2020 could have some major talent. 1.11/1.12 could be equal to 1.5 this year. 

That said, and I know I just spoke about how much I would sell Lindsay, trading a low 1st isnt bad, especially if you have all of those rbs... this is a pretty low risk move. I cant say I dislike this trade. Samuels doesnt factor in for me

1.11 or 1.12 could be a really good player in a pretty good draft though... if this was 2019 I'd love the Lindsay side. 

Speaking of Samuels, this was just accepted (standard 12 tm PPR):

Samuels, 1st (2020 late)

for

Hunt
I'd say this is in favor of the 1st IMO. Hunt, IMO, doesnt stand to be a fantasy factor until 2021 unless he is traded (or chubb hurt).. he is a RFA next year, so CLE can sign him cheap. another team can try and grab him I guess but that is basically a trade.

ETA: so this guy basically traded Lindsay for Hunt and some late 2020 dart throws. 

 
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Speaking of Samuels, this was just accepted (standard 12 tm PPR):

Samuels, 1st (2020 late)

for

Hunt
I assume this Jaylen Samuels with the recent talk of him.  I think I prefer that side rather than the Hunt side.  I think he's worth that late 1st range so adding in Samuels pushes it over the edge for me, but slightly. 

 
Full disclosure, I was down on Cohen last year and he proved me wrong, but in his stats lies where my reservations for Lindsay are. 

I think we've seen Lindsay's ceiling already. Also, I see Lindsay's projected production similar to how Cohen produced- very erratically. Is he someone you want as your RB1? no. RB2? I wouldnt. If he is a flex option I think he is very valuable. Right now people value him as an every week RB2, and that's where I dislike him. 

Many years ago I was bitten bad by Chad Johnsons streaky games. He seemed like a high end WR2, but when you looked at his games he either single handedly won you your week or he produced 4/55. Probably better as a flex player. My concern is that Lindsay ends up down this same path
Consistency is incredibly inconsistent.

I remember that Chad Johnson year.  I was one of the people pushing the hardest that he was a bad pick that year because most people had him on the bench for his big games, and was railing against his consitency that season.

The thing is, the year prior to that for Chad Johnson the biggest complaint was that he was boringly consistent and his good end of year stats came from a bunch of boring 7-86 type games and he never put up those huge games that would win you the game on their own.

Lindsay is a totally different type of RB than Cohen so I don't see the relation there anyway.

Sure Lindsay may wash out but at the prices we're talking about here he's more than worth the shot.  Take people's size concerns away and he's a rookie RB with a 3-down skillset that just put up 1300 yards with double digit TDs at a strong YPC and wildly outplayed the only competition on his team.  Who else can we say even half of those things about at these kind of prices?

 
2020 could have some major talent. 1.11/1.12 could be equal to 1.5 this year. 


Even with the late firm I think the high end talent in the 2020 draft will push solid talent to back end of round one but an essential pick 12 type guarantee does take a lot of the luster of that pick and makes this more in-line, a reasonable trade.
I went back and looked at the rookie drafts in one of my leagues, going back to 2012. It looks like the best you can reasonably expect at 11 or 12 is 3rd round RBs, 2nd round WRs and late 1st round TEs. Guys like Juju, E. Engram, D. Foreman, Njoku, Sutton, A. Miller, D. Adams, T. Mason, D. Funchess, M. Lee, etc.

Not to argue the trades, but your comments prompted me to take a look, and I thought it was worth sharing my findings. 

And I agree, Dan. The names above would be going in the middle of the 1st round this year, rather than the the 10-14 range they went in their own draft classes. 

 
2020 could have some major talent. 1.11/1.12 could be equal to 1.5 this year.
Odd that you say this.  Everything I have been reading is that the top-end talent in 2020 is worlds better than this year (2-4 guys max), but that the depth of talent this year far outstrips what is expected next year, going well into the 2nd round with solid choices.

 
Odd that you say this.  Everything I have been reading is that the top-end talent in 2020 is worlds better than this year (2-4 guys max), but that the depth of talent this year far outstrips what is expected next year, going well into the 2nd round with solid choices.
Yes, depth this year at wr seems pretty solid. The top of next year dwarfs 2019, but the depth at rb is amazing. at least 6 1st round rookie picks. WR is very talented as well. Round 2 might not be as deep in 2020 for sure

 
Odd that you say this.  Everything I have been reading is that the top-end talent in 2020 is worlds better than this year (2-4 guys max), but that the depth of talent this year far outstrips what is expected next year, going well into the 2nd round with solid choices.
It's a useless comparison at this point because depth doesn't emerge until much closer to the draft.  The majority of the guys that are thought of as good depth this year weren't even on people's radars at this point last year.  We have no idea how many of those guys will emerge similarly for next year.

Additionally, we haven't had guys killed off by surprisingly poor draft stock or bad landing spots yet (think John Kelly last year).

This is pretty much the exact perfect timing for depth to appear at its maximum for the 2019 class, and the time where depth will appear at its minimum for 2020.

If anything I would expect the depth next year to be even better, simply because there are so many studs we aren't even going to have to get into the depth pieces until much later.

 
The “late” is firm. League winner with one of those crazy rosters - starting Barkley, Zeke, Kamara, and Mixon in the RB/flex spots, for example. 

Is the 1.11 or 1.12 a year from now and Samuels really too much for Lindsay? 

Perhaps I’m low on Samuels, as I was stoked to get Lindsay for this.
Fully agree with you. 

 
Two leagues, two ebron trades, one for 2.02 one for 2.03. Cashing out on what I think was his best season. I don’t think he’ll disappear, but I’ll take the 2.02 at this point. Tried to include him in some player deals but didn’t have any luck. 

 
Two leagues, two ebron trades, one for 2.02 one for 2.03. Cashing out on what I think was his best season. I don’t think he’ll disappear, but I’ll take the 2.02 at this point. Tried to include him in some player deals but didn’t have any luck. 
I expect regression but that still seems cheap for Ebron to me. I'll take the Ebron sides

 
FFPC

Mike Williams for 1.07

I received  Williams. Although I haven’t studied the rookie draft much (I typically wait until after nfl draft) I was not getting too excited for the draft pick.  Good chance it ends up fairly even trade, I have more confidence in Williams than selecting a player at 1.07  

thoughts?

 
Two leagues, two ebron trades, one for 2.02 one for 2.03. Cashing out on what I think was his best season. I don’t think he’ll disappear, but I’ll take the 2.02 at this point. Tried to include him in some player deals but didn’t have any luck. 
We've seen TEs not return to form after hip surgery.   Ebron is 3 years younger, healthier, and more talented than Doyle.  I think this is a very fair price for him.

 
FFPC

Mike Williams for 1.07

I received  Williams. Although I haven’t studied the rookie draft much (I typically wait until after nfl draft) I was not getting too excited for the draft pick.  Good chance it ends up fairly even trade, I have more confidence in Williams than selecting a player at 1.07  

thoughts?
I like it for you. I think Williams showed a lot last season, and I'm excited to see what he can do with more targets. 

 
Seems like a fair market trade but I'd take the 1.1 and 1.4.
With all due respect, I like the Engram side, without much hesitation.  I just can't differentiate much among the 1st, 3rd and 4th picks this year, but would take Engram above any of them in the FFPC. 

 
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FFPC

Evan Engram and 1.2

for

1.1, 1.4
I have Engram equal to the 1.04 in rookie picks for FFPC, so this is essentially 1.02 and Engram (1.04) for 1.01 and 1.04 to me.  Seems rather equal especially if the team giving up Engram has a TE already and the new Engram owner fills that hole.  I'd probably keep Engram as I think his value will grow considering he came off an injured season, and I should easily be able to get my boy AJ Brown at 1.02.  

Probably makes sense for both teams 

 
With all due respect, I like the Engram side, without much hesitation.  I just can't differentiate much among the 1st, 3rd and 4th picks this year, but would take Engram above any of them in the FFPC. 
I think the trade is close and perhaps when it's all said and done no difference will exist between those picks. I just put a higher value on 1.1 right now in case separation occurs so I can take advantage of it.  I would rather take that side and that risk right now because I don't see a big difference between say pick 4 and Engram. So for me I'd take the 4 over Engram risk if you will if that risk meant I held 1 over 2 so I was in the one in position to take advantage of any one single player gaining separation.

 
I have Engram equal to the 1.04 in rookie picks for FFPC, so this is essentially 1.02 and Engram (1.04) for 1.01 and 1.04 to me.  Seems rather equal especially if the team giving up Engram has a TE already and the new Engram owner fills that hole.  I'd probably keep Engram as I think his value will grow considering he came off an injured season, and I should easily be able to get my boy AJ Brown at 1.02.  

Probably makes sense for both teams 
yeah I don't know yet if it makes sense or not, I'm the one that sold Engram and then later Mike Williams. This is an Orphan I bought this year, I have very little on my current roster other than Luck and Watson who nobody seems to want and now I have 1.1, 1.3, 1.4, 1.6, 2.1, 2.2 three 2020 1sts and three 2020 2nds so this is kind of a big work in progress

 
Missed a few of these going down over the last couple weeks, not involved in any.

12 team SF

Team A gives McKinnon, '20 2nd

Team B gives Parris Campbell, '20 3rd

Team C gives Drake, Josh Jacobs, Kelvin Harmon

Team A gives D Freeman, Lindsay, Tyreek

Team C gives D Freeman

Team D gives C Kirk

DIfferent league now, 12 team non s/f, not involved

Team A gives CMC, 2.12

Team B gives Mike Williams, 1.02, 1.06, '20 1st

Team B gives Freeman

Team C gives Woods

 
Missed a few of these going down over the last couple weeks, not involved in any.

12 team SF

Team A gives McKinnon, '20 2nd

Team B gives Parris Campbell, '20 3rd

I'll take mckinnon over Campbell and the pick upgrade is a nice bonus.  Mckinnon might end up being nothing but the Kyle Shanahan rb has been really valuable for a long time, and i'll gladly buy shares of mckinnon and breida (or Coleman if its cheap enough) 

Team C gives Drake, Josh Jacobs, Kelvin Harmon

Team A gives D Freeman, Lindsay, Tyreek

I guess tyreek side but i'm not in love with it.  

Team C gives D Freeman

Team D gives C Kirk

Looks like team c is getting younger so Kirk.  Freeman could have a big swing in value the next couple days. 

DIfferent league now, 12 team non s/f, not involved

Team A gives CMC, 2.12

Team B gives Mike Williams, 1.02, 1.06, '20 1st

Picks by a decent amount, but i respect the overpay.

Team B gives Freeman

Team C gives Woods

Woods but close.  

 
Missed a few of these going down over the last couple weeks, not involved in any.

12 team SF

Team A gives McKinnon, '20 2nd

Team B gives Parris Campbell, '20 3rd

Team C gives Drake, Josh Jacobs, Kelvin Harmon

Team A gives D Freeman, Lindsay, Tyreek

Team C gives D Freeman

Team D gives C Kirk

DIfferent league now, 12 team non s/f, not involved

Team A gives CMC, 2.12

Team B gives Mike Williams, 1.02, 1.06, '20 1st

Team B gives Freeman

Team C gives Woods
:Shrug:

 
12 team SF

Team A gives McKinnon, '20 2nd

Team B gives Parris Campbell, '20 3rd

Team C gives Drake, Josh Jacobs, Kelvin Harmon

Team A gives D Freeman, Lindsay, Tyreek (Bad trade)

Team C gives D Freeman

Team D gives C Kirk

DIfferent league now, 12 team non s/f, not involved

Team A gives CMC, 2.12

Team B gives Mike Williams, 1.02, 1.06, '20 1st (I think)

Team B gives Freeman

Team C gives Woods
Assets I prefer in bold. 

 
I would easily pay that for Williams. Can't get anybody to sell that cheap so far. Only places I have him are where I picked him off waivers last year.
Honestly I feel the opposite. Williams might be only worth a mid 2 by this time tomorrow or Friday. I’d be hard pressed to make this deal pre-draft for him. This wasn’t my trade...

 
Honestly I feel the opposite. Williams might be only worth a mid 2 by this time tomorrow or Friday. I’d be hard pressed to make this deal pre-draft for him. This wasn’t my trade...
I imagine there are more people that agree with you on that. I just am willing to bet that he will be the guy (this year anyway), and his value is either going to spike or fall after this weekend. I feel 1.09 is in the middle enough for me to pull the trigger now. But I haven't been able to find such a deal. And if I'm right his price will go up. But I am certainly in the minority.

 
12 team FFPC style - TE 1.5 PPR (disbanding after 2020 jackpot season)

Team A gives Conner, Njoku, 2.05, 2020 3rd and 4th

Team B gives Mike Williams, Kirk, 1.01, 2020 1st

Not involved but am betting the 2020 1st is late. In FFPC you have to compete in the toilet bowl to get the 1.01. This guy missed the playoffs just barely and then got the 1.01. His team is stacked. 

 
12 team FFPC style - TE 1.5 PPR (disbanding after 2020 jackpot season)

Team A gives Conner, Njoku, 2.05, 2020 3rd and 4th

Team B gives Mike Williams, Kirk, 1.01, 2020 1st

Not involved but am betting the 2020 1st is late. In FFPC you have to compete in the toilet bowl to get the 1.01. This guy missed the playoffs just barely and then got the 1.01. His team is stacked. 
Not sure more than a few people here play in a league that has a jackpot season.  I know I dont.  That said, it sure seems the team getting conner/njoku wins.  

 
Not sure more than a few people here play in a league that has a jackpot season.  I know I dont.  That said, it sure seems the team getting conner/njoku wins.  
Yeah I know. Empire leagues and things like this have become more and more popular, though, and this idea of a rolling prize pool has caught on here and there. We had our startup in 2015 and admittedly as we approach 2020 it becomes more and more like a redraft, but otherwise we're still cutting to 16 this weekend and holding a rookie draft next month. But no question the value of the 1.01 and 2020 1st here are gray and murky.

 

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