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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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On 1/31/2021 at 8:26 PM, FreeBaGeL said:

Btw it seems like we have a ton of FFPC players in here.  Any interest in later on in the offseason all jumping into the same FFPC startup league and having an FFPC league of mostly FBGs?  Would be fun to be in some leagues with some of you all.

It depends on league format in my case. 

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8 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC SF:

I gave Golladay, 3.03
I got 2.03, Slayton, Perine, 2022 3rd

If it matters I offered Golladay for his 1.11 straight up the other day and he declined. I feel like this is even more value on my side, though. I don't have a ton of hope for Slayton but I think there is nowhere to go but up for the Giants assuming they get Barkley back healthy. And I'm just not into Golladay. I know he is probably about to go somewhere shiny in FA, but I think Slayton could still outperform him in 2021 and is obviously younger. Perine is a throw in and if I was willing to do Golladay for 1.11 then 2.03 plus all those other pieces seems like a win. Now I have 1.09, 2.03, 2.05, 2.09 and should be able to parlay that into some top WR/RB combos in this SF format.

Yikes. I understand being disappointed in Golladay but I think he has a higher ceiling than Slayton. Even if you don’t believe in Golladay I think you sold too cheap. A good landing spot is going to give Golladay a bump in value that would have netted you more. 

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16 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC SF:

I gave Golladay, 3.03
I got 2.03, Slayton, Perine, 2022 3rd

If it matters I offered Golladay for his 1.11 straight up the other day and he declined. I feel like this is even more value on my side, though. I don't have a ton of hope for Slayton but I think there is nowhere to go but up for the Giants assuming they get Barkley back healthy. And I'm just not into Golladay. I know he is probably about to go somewhere shiny in FA, but I think Slayton could still outperform him in 2021 and is obviously younger. Perine is a throw in and if I was willing to do Golladay for 1.11 then 2.03 plus all those other pieces seems like a win. Now I have 1.09, 2.03, 2.05, 2.09 and should be able to parlay that into some top WR/RB combos in this SF format.

I have been trying to sell Golladay for weeks with no real offers worth a crap. I would not have done the deal you did.2.03 + the right player, sure, but not Perine or SLayton.

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22 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

FFPC not involved:

Team A gave Montgomery, 3.03
Team B gave Gesicki, 1.09

Team A gave 1.09, 3.03
Team C gave Juju, 3.12

Team A appears to be double dipping with the 3.03 pick.......that's great if you can get away with it.

Edited by Gally
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10 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

Yikes. I understand being disappointed in Golladay but I think he has a higher ceiling than Slayton. Even if you don’t believe in Golladay I think you sold too cheap. A good landing spot is going to give Golladay a bump in value that would have netted you more. 

I'd take that bet. I would agree he has a higher floor than Slayton but ceilings are comparable and he is getting a bit older. He was my WR4 and now Slayton will be (unless I trade him before it matters). The 2.03 is the main piece here that I was targeting. 

3 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

I have been trying to sell Golladay for weeks with no real offers worth a crap. I would not have done the deal you did.2.03 + the right player, sure, but not Perine or SLayton.

I am obviously higher on Slayton than consensus and much lower on Golladay but what if this was 2.03 plus player X that maybe you do like in that price area? (I have to remind people this is SF) We can agree to disagree on Slayton but on value this deal favors me or plays as a wash. Perine is a throw in and not even worth mentioning. 

I have argued repeatedly, though, that value is not the end goal. It is a tool. The goal is to crush opponents in the box score. Golladay is not a stud, IMO. He can get you good floor chalk (and that is worth owning) but I want more. Now that I have 1.09, 2.03, 2.05 and 2.09 I feel confident that I will be able to move up and get a difference maker and maybe 2 or 3 of them if I can acquire a little more capital. Nobody was going to be buying Golladay to facilitate me moving up in this draft. And getting difference makers in the draft is my goal. 

But purely on value this is close to even or in my favor. If I am even a little bit right about Slayton/Perine then I profit here. If I am able to draft a difference maker I profit. If I swing and miss on both players and draft a difference maker I profit. If I miss on all 3 I lose. The way I play this game I don't lose sleep over that kind of a risk. There are three paths to profit here. Even being right about Golladay fading or being overpriced can miminize the loss in the 4th path.

Anyway, I do imagine I am in the minority on this. I just don't think Golladay is all that.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I am obviously higher on Slayton than consensus and much lower on Golladay

Anyway, I do imagine I am in the minority on this. I just don't think Golladay is all that.

Nope. I got your back, which means it's the kiss of death and the Giants draft Jaylen Waddle as their main threat. And Golladay goes to like Green Bay or something.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Nope. I got your back, which means it's the kiss of death and the Giants draft Jaylen Waddle as their main threat. And Golladay goes to like Green Bay or something.

If Barkley comes back healthy, I think the bolded would be a best case scenario for Slayton. In fact I am counting on them drafting a top WR that Slayton can complement. I'm not asking for much more than that from my WR4 and like I hinted at, he may be a trade piece for me well before we get to September.

I don't really see Shepard or Tate being impediments moving forward. QB of course is the real problem. Even this year without Barkley, Jones left some points out there re:Slayton. 

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15 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I'd take that bet. I would agree he has a higher floor than Slayton but ceilings are comparable and he is getting a bit older. He was my WR4.

I don't understand how you can say Slayton's ceiling is comparable to Golladay.  2019 Golladay was a top 5 WR and in the games he finished in 2020 he never had less than double digits.

 

Slayton on the other hand was about WR50 in most scoring systems and last year (his good year) he was about WR30.  Can Slayton have a big game or two?  Sure but that does not equate ceiling if you never know when to play him.  

 

Golladay is by far the superior option in all ways and its not really close.  This is not meant to take anything away from Slayton as I also like his potential but he is no where near the talent of Golladay.

Edited by Gally
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2 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

If Barkley comes back healthy, I think the bolded would be a best case scenario for Slayton. In fact I am counting on them drafting a top WR that Slayton can complement. I'm not asking for much more than that from my WR4 and like I hinted at, he may be a trade piece for me well before we get to September.

I don't really see Shepard or Tate being impediments moving forward. QB of course is the real problem. Even this year without Barkley, Jones left some points out there re:Slayton. 

I see. That's not bad logic. And Jones did leave points out there regarding Slayton in the two games I closely watched of theirs. So bombs away with Slayton.

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

People are just kidding themselves about Slayton.

Not as WR4 they aren't. He's anywhere from WR 30-50, as Gally points out. He's not Golladay, and I'd dissent a bit from barack's assessment there, but think sub 4.4 speed and reasonable hands. Guy's first season was touchdown-dependent, but that's who he is. He functions as Jones's deep threat.

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Not as WR4 they aren't. He's anywhere from WR 30-50, as Gally points out. He's not Golladay, and I'd dissent a bit from barack's assessment there, but think sub 4.4 speed and reasonable hands. Guy's first season was touchdown-dependent, but that's who he is. He functions as Jones's deep threat.

He's gets to a WR4 by being a WR2 for two weeks and a WR6 for four. That's bad for trying to win week to week.

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2 minutes ago, Gally said:

I don't understand how you can say Slayton's ceiling is comparable to Golladay.  2019 Golladay was a top 5 WR and in the games he finished in 2020 he never had less than double digits.

 

Slayton on the other hand was about WR50 in most scoring systems and last year (his good year) he was about WR30.  Can Slayton have a big game or two?  Sure but that does not equate ceiling if you never know when to play him.  

 

Golladay is by far the superior option in all ways and its not really close.  This is not meant to take anything away from Slayton as I also like his potential but he is no where near the talent of Golladay.

I'm interested in where (I think) the landscape is heading, not where it was. There is no disagreement that Golladay has scored more points and been more FF relevant in 4 years with Stafford than Slayton with his 2 years of Jones (and 1 without Barkley). On talent it is hard to compare because they play different WR styles. I'm talking about their ceiling moving forward. Obviously Slayton hasn't done it yet. Not consistently anyway.

I'm looking at 2019 FFPC stats and Golladay was WR12 in PPG and was within 0.8 PPG difference between WR8 and WR21. That isn't a stud and that isn't league winning. It isn't bad and has value. The league is (was?) top heavy at WR in PPR fantasy where the difference between low end WR1 and top end WR3 is minimal. And *relatively easily* replaceable, particularly when viewed as a person's WR4, where a RB or TE (FFPC is 1.5 points per TE reception) can be included in the replacement options.

 

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2 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

And *relatively easily* replaceable, particularly when viewed as a person's WR4, where a RB or TE (FFPC is 1.5 points per TE reception) can be included in the replacement options.

 

####. Just remembered it is superflex as well so in the WR4 replaceable category, we are literally talking about the QB2 (on my roster) to compare to.

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6 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's gets to a WR4 by being a WR2 for two weeks and a WR6 for four. That's bad for trying to win week to week.

Think he covered it above. Not that it really should make any difference, as that's just a question of variance and how much you can stomach it week in and week out. I think that depends on how you construct your team, really. The "what the heck flex" is named that for a reason, I suppose. Sometimes we're willing to take a shot on a week winner that might put up five or less at times if our surrounding cast is variance-proof to a degree. 

That's my lay take on it.

Edited by rockaction
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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's gets to a WR4 by being a WR2 for two weeks and a WR6 for four. That's bad for trying to win week to week.

That is the bigger point in this equation.  Golladay has been extremely consistent when healthy and it 2019 the QB carousel that fed him while Stafford was out didn't slow him at all.  That is very valuable in this fake game and Slayton is no where near that and as a deep threat primarily doesn't project to that either.  He is a great best ball WR4 and good upside flier when in a pinch but not even close to the value of Golladay 

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6 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's gets to a WR4 by being a WR2 for two weeks and a WR6 for four. That's bad for trying to win week to week.

10 games this year with less then 50 yards receiving...12 games with less then 5 receptions...still only 24 and talented so there is hope but I am not a fan of players who are that unreliable.

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1 minute ago, Gally said:

That is the bigger point in this equation.  Golladay has been extremely consistent when healthy and it 2019 the QB carousel that fed him while Stafford was out didn't slow him at all.  That is very valuable in this fake game and Slayton is no where near that and as a deep threat primarily doesn't project to that either.  He is a great best ball WR4 and good upside flier when in a pinch but not even close to the value of Golladay 

We were talking about *my* WR4, not a WR4 in the NFL. And as my WR4 he is competing with my second QB in superflex to make it into my lineup.

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2 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I swear to God if I draft the next Jefferson, Gibson, Higgins, Aiyuk, Kareem Hunt, Kamara at 2.03 this will really be a grand slam. That 2.03 is worth two Slaytons.

That would be nice. Yeah, I was going to point out that your 2.03 in Superflex is looking at a top twelve talent, really. It's going to go Lawrence, Wilson/Fields, Lance, Jones before then, maybe.

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8 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

No, no we mean WR4 on my roster, not a WR4 vs the rest of the field in fantasy. 

 

6 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

####. Just remembered it is superflex as well so in the WR4 replaceable category, we are literally talking about the QB2 (on my roster) to compare to.

 

1 minute ago, barackdhouse said:

We were talking about *my* WR4, not a WR4 in the NFL. And as my WR4 he is competing with my second QB in superflex to make it into my lineup.

People have completely missed this distinction but that's ok. We're talking about bench pieces here. All of them.

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Just now, barackdhouse said:

there is no maybe

Just naturally cautious about declaratives. Comes from years of the social sciences/political philosophy. When there are so many factors, absolutes become tricky. It's a natural tendency.

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2 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

At no point in any of this did I try and say Slayton is worth as much as Golladay. People are arguing that the sky is blue.

You didn't, but you said his upside was at least on par, IIRC. That'll get a lot of people to conflate the two.

Besides, I don't think everyone is coming down on your deal. I personally like it. Other people probably do, too, in some respect, especially once they think that you've really gotten a first-rounder in a 1QB league.

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9 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

We were talking about *my* WR4, not a WR4 in the NFL. And as my WR4 he is competing with my second QB in superflex to make it into my lineup.

I knew that was what you meant by WR4 however having a WR1 as your teams WR4 is a huge advantage and giving away that type of talent because he is only your "WR4" is generally not good business.

 

I do understand that the 2.03 was your real target but that is nowhere near the value of Golladay IMO.  I think you sold cheap........which might be fine but it is a big benefit to your opponent which does hurt you.

 

Good diacussions.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Just naturally cautious about declaratives. Comes from years of the social sciences/political philosophy. When there are so many factors, absolutes become tricky. It's a natural tendency.

Oh me, too. It's magic football though. My bet (because that's what this is, and bets have an absolute finality to them) is that 4 QBs go before 2.03.

Golladay would be a bye week fill in on this roster. I wouldn't be starting him over Tyreek, Jefferson, Juju or my QB2 choice between Brady and Carr. I am a little thin at RB3 so I would probably start him over my RB3 in a flex. Really good chance Slayton never sniffs my lineup, but if he happens to hit then this is a profitable play. Not counting on it much. My real bet here is 2.03 and value (Slayton's chances are much greater than zero).

Really, really good chance I come out of this draft with 2 more WRs that I would bump to my personal WR4 or 5 and either of Golladay or Slayton (if I did or didn't make the deal already) would get bumped to WR5 or 6, and I'm also probably coming out with 2 more RBs that would fill a flex spot also. Maybe a better QB2 as well.

So far Golladay's ceiling has been around WR12 among an ocean of players at multiple positions that can replace his production. During a bye week. He just isn't a ceiling play. 

The comp here isn't Golladay v Slayton, it is Golladay v 2.03 plus Slayton. 

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7 minutes ago, rockaction said:

You didn't, but you said his upside was at least on par, IIRC. That'll get a lot of people to conflate the two.

Besides, I don't think everyone is coming down on your deal. I personally like it. Other people probably do, too, in some respect, especially once they think that you've really gotten a first-rounder in a 1QB league.

no no it's all fair

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19 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Oh me, too. It's magic football though. My bet (because that's what this is, and bets have an absolute finality to them) is that 4 QBs go before 2.03.

Golladay would be a bye week fill in on this roster. I wouldn't be starting him over Tyreek, Jefferson, Juju or my QB2 choice between Brady and Carr. I am a little thin at RB3 so I would probably start him over my RB3 in a flex. Really good chance Slayton never sniffs my lineup, but if he happens to hit then this is a profitable play. Not counting on it much. My real bet here is 2.03 and value (Slayton's chances are much greater than zero).

Really, really good chance I come out of this draft with 2 more WRs that I would bump to my personal WR4 or 5 and either of Golladay or Slayton (if I did or didn't make the deal already) would get bumped to WR5 or 6, and I'm also probably coming out with 2 more RBs that would fill a flex spot also. Maybe a better QB2 as well.

So far Golladay's ceiling has been around WR12 among an ocean of players at multiple positions that can replace his production. During a bye week. He just isn't a ceiling play. 

The comp here isn't Golladay v Slayton, it is Golladay v 2.03 plus Slayton. 

I would for sure be starting Golladay over Juju in that scenario as Juju would be my WR4.  Before you say that Golladay is in flux because of his QB being traded and him being a FA Juju is in similar with an aging Ben that really fell off in production for a good portion of the year.  I have Golladay quite a bit higher than Juju so there is part of your disagreement.  

 

Like I said, it's great discussion and made me send a few offers out for Golladay in my leagues in case they see him like you do.  

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Another FFPC league, this kind of pissed me off.

I traded: Jonnu, 5th

I got: 2022 3rd

 

Then the new Jonnu owner traded him away for Boyd and Robby Anderson

I don't mind so much because I'm consolidating and I made some roster space. Jonnu was going to do me no good, but how the hell did he fetch so much when I shopped him a bit and nobody wanted to pay more than a 3rd? That's what annoyed me. The flip happened less than 3 hours later, the market for Jonnu was set by what I traded him for, and someone gives up 2 top50 WR's for him? I don't get it. 

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21 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

Another FFPC league, this kind of pissed me off.

I traded: Jonnu, 5th

I got: 2022 3rd

 

Then the new Jonnu owner traded him away for Boyd and Robby Anderson

I don't mind so much because I'm consolidating and I made some roster space. Jonnu was going to do me no good, but how the hell did he fetch so much when I shopped him a bit and nobody wanted to pay more than a 3rd? That's what annoyed me. The flip happened less than 3 hours later, the market for Jonnu was set by what I traded him for, and someone gives up 2 top50 WR's for him? I don't get it. 

Yeah, that's aggravating.

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I guess we just need to resign ourselves to the fact that some leagues have traders that are fair and others that aren't. Then decide how badly you want to participate in the latter.

I have a Zealots league I'm probably leaving after this year. Half of it are players that don't have a clue.

Sure, guy, I'd love to trade Chubb for the #6 pick in this draft.

Or sure, guy 2, I'll take ten of your spare parts for Chubb, Lamb, and Chase Young.

I thought a bit, guy 3, about giving you the #2 overall for Daniel Jones, but I think I might be able to do better.

Or, why wouldn't I, guy 4, give you two firsts (including the #2) and a second for Watson? :wall:

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I guess we just need to resign ourselves to the fact that some leagues have traders that are fair and others that aren't. Then decide how badly you want to participate in the latter.

I have a Zealots league I'm probably leaving after this year. Half of it are players that don't have a clue.

Sure, guy, I'd love to trade Chubb for the #6 pick in this draft. Or sure, guy 2, I'll take ten of your spare parts for Chubb, Lamb, and Chase Young.

There are some guys that you just can't trade with and yet they seem to give away players to other teams.  I have actually had an owner say the only way he will trade with me is if I overpay by a lot because he doesn't want to help my team because my team is generally strong.  Then he gives away players to other owners for basically nothing (the exact guys I just inquired about and gave a better offer for).  Damn frustrating. 

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On 2/2/2021 at 10:15 AM, barackdhouse said:

We were talking about *my* WR4, not a WR4 in the NFL. And as my WR4 he is competing with my second QB in superflex to make it into my lineup.

In 2019 Slayton finished as WR 41 in PPG.

In 2020 Slayton finished as WR 71 in PPG.

I'd say he isn't just a WR4 on your roster, he's also a WR4 in the NFL.

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6 minutes ago, kutta said:

In 2019 Slayton finished as WR 41 in PPG.

In 2020 Slayton finished as WR 71 in PPG.

I'd say he isn't just a WR4 on your roster, he's also a WR4 in the NFL.

I've got him at 34 and 53 for total points in PPR, Weeks 1-16. I know people love PPG for predictive purposes. I love players who play. 

Edited by rockaction
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