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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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1 hour ago, Birdie048 said:

Herbert had a good rookie year.  New HC/OC and Ekler was out most of the season.  This year could be very different, we just don't know and we can only extrapolate, ponder and speculate like everybody else.   

I agree with your general premise on the deal, but I think Ekler coming back is a plus on his side. He’s a weapon in the passing game and not sturdy enough for a heavy workload runner.

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14 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I agree with your general premise on the deal, but I think Ekler coming back is a plus on his side. He’s a weapon in the passing game and not sturdy enough for a heavy workload runner.

TY, but I guess I was asking how many Rushing attempts will Ekler get to reduce the Passing attack?  Will a more balanced Running attack change the value of Herbert?  I think Ekler will get more carries to balance the Offensive scheme.  

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Just now, JoeSteeler said:

Sorry but that is terrible value for Gibson. Herbert + a 1st would be fair

I don’t mean even. I mean fair. 

I said after it’s an overpay, & that the picks should be swapped. but I wouldn’t say it’s so out of kilter that the league should be up in arms about it.

a top 12 RB for a potential long-term starter at QB coming off a monster season?

It depends on the league & what other QBs are available. Or maybe dude just loves Herbert & that was the price. 

It’s not a deal I’d make, but it’s not outrageous either. 

 

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It’s completely outrageous. Every team in the league should have 1-2 QBs that they feel like are capable of being a QB1, and you can still find weekly surprises on the waiver wire. 

Herbert is my pick to have a Baker Sophomore Slump, I’ve made a lot of hay over the years selling QBs at premium prices in these leagues and have never regretted it. 

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13 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

It’s completely outrageous. Every team in the league should have 1-2 QBs that they feel like are capable of being a QB1, and you can still find weekly surprises on the waiver wire. 

Herbert is my pick to have a Baker Sophomore Slump, I’ve made a lot of hay over the years selling QBs at premium prices in these leagues and have never regretted it. 

Some leagues don't shake out that way though. In my league there's one team with 7 QBs and 2 teams with scrubs. The team with 7 hoards them unless they get deep & think they can make a run, then they peel one off for outrageous price, like the Gibson deal for Herbert. 

So maybe  it's outrageous, but it's also supply & demand. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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47 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Some leagues don't shake out that way though. In my league there's one team with 7 QBs and 2 teams with scrubs. The team with 7 hoards them unless they get deep & think they can make a run, then they peel one off for outrageous price, like the Gibson deal for Herbert. 

So maybe  it's outrageous, but it's also supply & demand. 

I have had many guys over the years try the qb hoarding and it has never led to a profit.  Every time the guy spouts out at the draft "just wait until you need a qb and you will be coming to me" and every year he ends up with those qb's or he gives them away for nothing and he flounders with no decent WR's or RB's.  But he has tons of bench points.

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6 minutes ago, Gally said:

I have had many guys over the years try the qb hoarding and it has never led to a profit.  Every time the guy spouts out at the draft "just wait until you need a qb and you will be coming to me" and every year he ends up with those qb's or he gives them away for nothing and he flounders with no decent WR's or RB's.  But he has tons of bench points.

Yep. That’s how it’s been the last 3 years - dude hasn’t made the playoffs & only managed to deal 1 lower tier guy (Fitz, IIRC) 

Seems like teams in need of a QB don’t want to deal with him.

I’ve made a habit of occasionally taking a 3rd QB when a value falls too far though. Not necessarily to hoard them, but they do make useful trade chips in redraft. 

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Gibson is worth far more than Herbert straight up in most 1qb leagues, much less adding a 1st to the Gibson side.

ADP
Gibson 2.04
Herbert 6.07

Trade calc....

DTC
Gibson: 30.5
Herbert 16.7

DLF
Gibson 664
Herbert 246

I am all for going out and getting your guy but this is too large of a value gap for that unless it's a Zealots league or something where QBs have larger than normal value.  Like someone else said you could literally flip the 1st to the other side and leave everything else the same and the Gibson side would probably still come out on top in value. 

This is the equivalent of three 1sts for a mid QB1 in a 1 QB league which is insane.  You could get Mahomes+ for that kind of value in most 1qb leagues.  Heck Gibson goes a round ahead of even Mahomes in 1qb startup ADP.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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59 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Gibson is worth far more than Herbert straight up in most 1qb leagues, much less adding a 1st to the Gibson side.

ADP
Gibson 2.04
Herbert 6.07

Trade calc....

DTC
Gibson: 30.5
Herbert 16.7

DLF
Gibson 664
Herbert 246

I am all for going out and getting your guy but this is too large of a value gap for that unless it's a Zealots league or something where QBs have larger than normal value.  Like someone else said you could literally flip the 1st to the other side and leave everything else the same and the Gibson side would probably still come out on top in value. 

This is the equivalent of three 1sts for a mid QB1 in a 1 QB league which is insane.  You could get Mahomes+ for that kind of value in most 1qb leagues.  Heck Gibson goes a round ahead of even Mahomes in 1qb startup ADP.

Ok, sure well when you put it that way ot does seem kinda bad. 

Early 2nd going back the other way, which might only be a few picks from the late first,  but whatever, I’m not that high on either of these dudes & it’s not my trade, so I’ll just agree that it’s not a good deal.

Felt like it was closer at a glance. Maybe I’m just still not a Gibson guy. 

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On 7/12/2021 at 9:35 PM, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Ah, got it. You personalized it when you said you loved McL, so I made a poor assumption there. 

Basically I see them as equal assets. The slight age/health issues with AC are offset a bit by the team he's on and QB, so so gimme whichever side the 1st rounder is on. 

If you posted this as AC for McL + 2022 1.xx I'd be on the McL side of it. 

I love McLaurin as well... admittedly surprised by how close he and Cooper are in age.

Agree that a 1st seems a bit too pricey; but acknowledge that if I had a man crush on Terry and felt the QB situation was right, I might do that deal to get "my guy".

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27 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Yep. I would not move Gibson for Herbert and a 1st.

What if you were loaded at RB, had a rock solid team except QB (you’re the Watson/Luck owner who thought you were set for years) & Herbert was the only QB available?

You wouldn’t pay Gibson & a late first for Herbert & an early 2nd? 

/devil’s advocate 

 

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Not being a fan of Herbert in general, no. If I want a QB to take my team over the top this season just my future 1st should be plenty to get someone serviceable with QB1 upside 

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3 hours ago, Gally said:

I have had many guys over the years try the qb hoarding and it has never led to a profit.  Every time the guy spouts out at the draft "just wait until you need a qb and you will be coming to me" and every year he ends up with those qb's or he gives them away for nothing and he flounders with no decent WR's or RB's.  But he has tons of bench points.

QB hoarder in my league has no titles in 27 seasons...

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15 hours ago, tangfoot said:

It’s completely outrageous. Every team in the league should have 1-2 QBs that they feel like are capable of being a QB1, and you can still find weekly surprises on the waiver wire. 

Herbert is my pick to have a Baker Sophomore Slump, I’ve made a lot of hay over the years selling QBs at premium prices in these leagues and have never regretted it. 

What would you guys sell Lamar for in a 1QB PPR league?

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18 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

What would you guys sell Lamar for in a 1QB PPR league?

These top 7-8 guys are never going to get fair value in a 1 qb league unless its the league where herbert fetches 2 1sts.

At this point in the season, assuming you had your rookie draft and any picks would be '22 or later, I would likely just hold him for any single pick.

if you havent had your rookie draft yet, and we are talking in terms of '21 picks, I would hold for anything less than a top 4. I also wouldnt offer a top 4 for him if I were buying.

*edit If someone offered you something like 2 mid 1sts this year, and you could turn that into Javonte and say Lawrence/Lance/Fields, I would also do that easily

In terms of players, there are plenty of players id move lamar for in 1 qb depending on the makeup of my roster, and what needs i was aiming to fill.

 

Edited by Pwingles
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2 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

These top 7-8 guys are never going to get fair value in a 1 qb league unless its the league where herbert fetches 2 1sts.

At this point in the season, assuming you had your rookie draft and any picks would be '22 or later, I would likely just hold him for any single pick.

if you havent had your rookie draft yet, and we are talking in terms of '21 picks, I would hold for anything less than a top 4. I also wouldnt offer a top 4 for him if I were buying.

In terms of players, there are plenty of players id move lamar for in 1 qb depending on the makeup of my roster, and what needs i was aiming to fill.

Was talking along the lines of players . :)

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1 minute ago, Helaire-ious said:

Was talking along the lines of players . :)

Would be completely driven by what the makeup of my team was and what i was trying to improve in return tbh.

Theres prolly about 10-12 Rb and 12-15 WR Id move him for if I had even a reasonable backup or two If it puts me over the top.

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21 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

What would you guys sell Lamar for in a 1QB PPR league?

One observation here…asking this question to a fantasy community of die hard football nerds who talk about football in March & April is going to get you a much different answer than seeing what folks will actually trade players for.

for one; there’s no context to many of the deals posted. But for another, supply & demand, and player crushes come into the equation. And finally, the “average” FF player probably doesn’t have 3 draft calcs bookmarked. 

Just occurred to me seeing the 1st response that (paraphrasing) “no QB is going to get fair value in a 1 QB league”.

I mean, they might. Really depends on the league & the intensity level of owners. 

Like a league made of of the last 12 people that responded. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to get a deal done?! :lol: 

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13 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

What if you were loaded at RB, had a rock solid team except QB (you’re the Watson/Luck owner who thought you were set for years) & Herbert was the only QB available?

You wouldn’t pay Gibson & a late first for Herbert & an early 2nd? 

/devil’s advocate 

 

No, no I would not. 

Edited by barackdhouse
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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So to be clear, you’d rather lose a league than lose a trade? 

Your words not mine. As I said above I wouldn't trade Gibson for Herbert *and* the 1st on that side. I don't believe in the premise that there isn't another QB available. 

To me that trade was the worst I have seen all offseason and I see it as three 1sts for Herbert. Gibson should cost two 1sts easily. 

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1 hour ago, Pwingles said:

These top 7-8 guys are never going to get fair value in a 1 qb league unless its the league where herbert fetches 2 1sts.

At this point in the season, assuming you had your rookie draft and any picks would be '22 or later, I would likely just hold him for any single pick.

if you havent had your rookie draft yet, and we are talking in terms of '21 picks, I would hold for anything less than a top 4. I also wouldnt offer a top 4 for him if I were buying.

*edit If someone offered you something like 2 mid 1sts this year, and you could turn that into Javonte and say Lawrence/Lance/Fields, I would also do that easily

In terms of players, there are plenty of players id move lamar for in 1 qb depending on the makeup of my roster, and what needs i was aiming to fill.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

One observation here…asking this question to a fantasy community of die hard football nerds who talk about football in March & April is going to get you a much different answer than seeing what folks will actually trade players for.

for one; there’s no context to many of the deals posted. But for another, supply & demand, and player crushes come into the equation. And finally, the “average” FF player probably doesn’t have 3 draft calcs bookmarked. 

Just occurred to me seeing the 1st response that (paraphrasing) “no QB is going to get fair value in a 1 QB league”.

I mean, they might. Really depends on the league & the intensity level of owners. 

Like a league made of of the last 12 people that responded. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to get a deal done?! :lol: 

ahh yes, paraphrasing so you can get your zinger in, because if you just straight up quoted the comment, you could not get said zinger in. Good work.

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4 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Your words not mine. As I said above I wouldn't trade Gibson for Herbert *and* the 1st on that side. I don't believe in the premise that there isn't another QB available. 

You’re changing the scenario to suit your response though. the old Star Trek “Kobayashi Maru” tactic. 🖖🏼

I’m saying in that scenario that Herbert is it. No one who has QBs to deal needs a RB except Bill, and you slept with Bill’s girlfriend so Bill doesn’t wanna trade with you. That leaves Steve, and he’s got Herbert but that’s his asking price. 

Would you rather overpay for Herbert & have a ~70% chance at making the playoffs/40% shot at winning the league, or stand pat with whatever scrub you can stream off the WW and have a ~30% chance of making the playoffs/10% shot at winning the league? 

straight answer - no Captain Kirk-ing allowed. 

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4 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

 

ahh yes, paraphrasing so you can get your zinger in, because if you just straight up quoted the comment, you could not get said zinger in. Good work.

No, paraphrasing because i wasn’t sure what the exact quote was and I wasn’t that invested to go quote it. 

there wasn’t a zinger to get in. You missed the point of my post entirely, but get down with your bad self I guess. 

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18 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So to be clear, you’d rather lose a league than lose a trade? 

I think you always want to make a good deal but sometimes you have to overpay if it puts you over the top. I'd rather the title and deal with the fallout over the next few years than looking back at what could have been. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

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20 minutes ago, Rockchild said:

I think you always want to make a good deal but sometimes you have to overpay if it puts you over the top. I'd rather the title and deal with the fallout over the next few years than looking back at what could have been. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

Let me tell you about a redraft season where I had Priest Holmes, who fell to me at 5.

He came out of the gate gangbusters & the Larry Johnson owner offered him to me for what I thought was way too much for a bench-riding handcuff.

We got very close, but then the LJ owner wanted me to toss in a WR3 & I balked. No deal got done.

The very next week Holmes got hurt & LJ went on to win that dude the league. Because I didn’t want to overpay my season was over. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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44 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

You’re changing the scenario to suit your response though. the old Star Trek “Kobayashi Maru” tactic. 🖖🏼

I’m saying in that scenario that Herbert is it. No one who has QBs to deal needs a RB except Bill, and you slept with Bill’s girlfriend so Bill doesn’t wanna trade with you. That leaves Steve, and he’s got Herbert but that’s his asking price. 

Would you rather overpay for Herbert & have a ~70% chance at making the playoffs/40% shot at winning the league, or stand pat with whatever scrub you can stream off the WW and have a ~30% chance of making the playoffs/10% shot at winning the league? 

straight answer - no Captain Kirk-ing allowed. 

It's a 12-team league, Shirley the team with Gibson already has at least one serviceable QB on the roster.  Or was there literally nothing at all?

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52 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

You’re changing the scenario to suit your response though. the old Star Trek “Kobayashi Maru” tactic. 🖖🏼

I’m saying in that scenario that Herbert is it. No one who has QBs to deal needs a RB except Bill, and you slept with Bill’s girlfriend so Bill doesn’t wanna trade with you. That leaves Steve, and he’s got Herbert but that’s his asking price. 

Would you rather overpay for Herbert & have a ~70% chance at making the playoffs/40% shot at winning the league, or stand pat with whatever scrub you can stream off the WW and have a ~30% chance of making the playoffs/10% shot at winning the league? 

straight answer - no Captain Kirk-ing allowed. 

In my case sure I would take Herbert there.  But that seems like such a far fetched scenario it's not really any more worth worrying about than whether I would take the Herbert side if I were playing a league where players named after adorable VW Beetle movie stars get triple points.

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23 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

It's a 12-team league, Shirley the team with Gibson already has at least one serviceable QB on the roster.  Or was there literally nothing at all?

Well, Bill did, but @barackdhouse slept with his girl in this hypothetical, so Bill doesn't want to deal with him. He won't go bowling with him any more either, which seems a little extreme, but hey, that's Bill for ya. Friggin Bill, man. 

But yeah, that's the scenario. Would you rather over-pay knowing it gives you a great chance to win, or not make a deal taking your chances with the WW? 

And stop calling me Shirley. :lol: 

 

ETA: I'd said in that scenario, barackdhouse had Watson/Luck. But  for the sake of argument, let's say he has Darnold.  So stand pat with Darnold or overpay for Herbert? 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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24 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

In my case sure I would take Herbert there.  But that seems like such a far fetched scenario it's not really any more worth worrying about than whether I would take the Herbert side if I were playing a league where players named after adorable VW Beetle movie stars get triple points.

I am proposing this rule at my draft. I'll keep you posted on how the vote goes. 

lol 

My point was about context. And yes, it was a hyperbolic exaggeration. But at least now we know not to leave our girl alone with @barackdhouse, and that's what's important here. 

That and that sentient cars can also defy the laws of physics. 

 

 

*ETA: this is all in good fun, and I mean no offense to barackdhouse. I'm sure he's as trustworthy as the day is long and would never actually do something like that. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

One observation here…asking this question to a fantasy community of die hard football nerds who talk about football in March & April is going to get you a much different answer than seeing what folks will actually trade players for.

for one; there’s no context to many of the deals posted. But for another, supply & demand, and player crushes come into the equation. And finally, the “average” FF player probably doesn’t have 3 draft calcs bookmarked. 

Just occurred to me seeing the 1st response that (paraphrasing) “no QB is going to get fair value in a 1 QB league”.

I mean, they might. Really depends on the league & the intensity level of owners. 

Like a league made of of the last 12 people that responded. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to get a deal done?! :lol: 

For reference, I tried getting Mahomes, but the other guy wanted my 1st round pick PLUS Lamar for him. I passed, but all this overpay vs regret it later has me rethinking & perhaps try to revisit a deal, but 1st try a player he hasn't rejected yet vs my 1st

Edited by Helaire-ious
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3 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

For reference, I tried getting Mahomes, but the other guy wanted my 1st round pick PLUS Lamar for him. I passed, but all this overpay vs regret it later has me rethinking & perhaps try to revisit a deal, but 1st try a he hasn't rejected yet vs my 1st

That's a tough scenario. Sounds a lot like he just doesn't want to give up Mahomes, and that was how he said so. 

I sold Mahomes for the equivalent of 5x 1st round picks, so it's not like he's being outrageous. 

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

That's a tough scenario. Sounds a lot like he just doesn't want to give up Mahomes, and that was how he said so. 

I sold Mahomes for the equivalent of 5x 1st round picks, so it's not like he's being outrageous. 

He wants to move him as he has him on the trade block. He just is hoping for an overpay from someone & no one has as he has been on the block for a while now.

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2 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

He wants to move him as he has him on the trade block. He just is hoping for an overpay from someone & no one has as he has been on the block for a while now.

Yeah, I mean Mahomes & LJax don't seem that far apart value-wise in my opinion, though the trade calcs all give a big bump to Mahomes, so at this point it's gonna be a standoff between you two to see who blinks. 

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Assuming I had a reasonably strong team I would pay a 1st, assuming it's not early, to upgrade to Mahomes from any QB other than maybe Murray.

As history has shown us time and again the reality is a LOT of these top QBs are going to regress over the next few years, probably pretty heavily.  There was a time when Matt Schaub and middle of his prime Peyton Manning were considered somewhat interchangeable, and we're just a few years removed from Jared Goff and Carson Wentz being the top dynasty QBs and even closer than that to Baker Mayfield being considered a top 3 QB.  A few years before that Jameis, Mariota, and Carr were all borderline top 5 guys worth as much as Herbert, LJax, etc are now.

That's not to say Mahomes isn't without his own risk but to me if we're talking about 1 or 2 of these guys being a future HoF, career long elite fantasy QB a la Peyton/Brady/Rodgers then Mahomes is way ahead at the top of that list of who is most likely to be that guy.  All the rest of them, and especially the untraditional LJax, it wouldn't really surprise me that much if 5 years from now we were talking about them like we talk about Goff, Wentz, Stafford, etc who have little value in 1qb leagues.  And it's likely that one or two of them will even be Flacco/Jameis/Baker/RG3 where they fall off the fantasy 1qb map completely.

To me a mid/late 1st is a fair price to pay to make sure I'm getting a 25 year old Peyton rather than a 23 year old RG3 or a 24 year old Jared Goff.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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12 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Assuming I had a reasonably strong team I would pay a 1st, assuming it's not early, to upgrade to Mahomes from any QB other than maybe Murray.

As history has shown us time and again the reality is a LOT of these top QBs are going to regress over the next few years, probably pretty heavily.  There was a time when Matt Schaub and middle of his prime Peyton Manning were considered somewhat interchangeable, and we're just a few years removed from Jared Goff and Carson Wentz being the top dynasty QBs and even closer than that to Baker Mayfield being considered a top 3 QB.  A few years before that Jameis, Mariota, and Carr were all borderline top 5 guys worth as much as Herbert, LJax, etc are now.

That's not to say Mahomes isn't without his own risk but to me if we're talking about 1 or 2 of these guys being a future HoF, career long elite fantasy QB a la Peyton/Brady/Rodgers then Mahomes is way ahead at the top of that list of who is most likely to be that guy.  All the rest of them, and especially the untraditional LJax, it wouldn't really surprise me that much if 5 years from now we were talking about them like we talk about Goff, Wentz, Stafford, etc who have little value in 1qb leagues.  And it's likely that one or two of them will even be Flacco/Jameis/Baker/RG3 where they fall off the fantasy 1qb map completely.

To me a mid/late 1st is a fair price to pay to make sure I'm getting a 25 year old Peyton rather than a 23 year old RG3 or a 24 year old Jared Goff.

I agree with most of this, but some (not necessarily me) believe that LJax has another gear, where he becomes a passing sensation and continues to utilize his legs. 

And there are others who believe that Mahomes, who's already missed time with a knee injury, takes a lot of risks outside of the pocket while not being as physically gifted as LJax, adding some risk. 

Again, I am just playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't the above also be said for Mahomes? That what we've seen is potentially what he is, and that his 50 TD season isn't likely to repeat? 

I'd have a hard time paying top upgrade there, because I'm just not sure it's that much of an upgrade. If I have LJax, I'm probably looking to invest at other positions because I already have a young top 5 starting QB. So to me the deal doesn't make that much sense anyway, but I do appreciate your POV here. 

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

You’re changing the scenario to suit your response though. the old Star Trek “Kobayashi Maru” tactic. 🖖🏼

 

I didn't change anything. I reject your premise. Period. Would a trade partner be allowed to make a similar decision or would they be accused of changing the rules too? That Kobayashi Maru rabbit hole made even less sense than your defense of this deal. I didn't change ####. Have you had the rookie draft yet? How high did Lawrence go? That is the ceiling of the price I would pay for a QB. Where did Fields/Wilson go? Somewhere above you mentioned Darnold. Yes I would slam my hand into the keyboard to move Herbert for Gibson and a 1st, even if I only had a backup on my roster, like Mariota or Minshew or some garbage. With Darnold there it isn't even a concern. 

Kobayashi Maru? No this is just me saying I would find a QB another way. If I were in that league that would be an option would it not? I wouldn't be accused of changing the rules if I rejected that deal would I? I'd be happy with Darnold, maybe one of the top rookie QBs, and WW streaming. Lots of people play single QB that way. 

Making the assumption that Herbert puts a team over the top is not something I'm obligated to go along with.

 

 

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22 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

I didn't change anything. I reject your premise. Period. Would a trade partner be allowed to make a similar decision or would they be accused of changing the rules too? That Kobayashi Maru rabbit hole made even less sense than your defense of this deal. I didn't change ####. Have you had the rookie draft yet? How high did Lawrence go? That is the ceiling of the price I would pay for a QB. Where did Fields/Wilson go? Somewhere above you mentioned Darnold. Yes I would slam my hand into the keyboard to move Herbert for Gibson and a 1st, even if I only had a backup on my roster, like Mariota or Minshew or some garbage. With Darnold there it isn't even a concern. 

Kobayashi Maru? No this is just me saying I would find a QB another way. If I were in that league that would be an option would it not? I wouldn't be accused of changing the rules if I rejected that deal would I? I'd be happy with Darnold, maybe one of the top rookie QBs, and WW streaming. Lots of people play single QB that way. 

Making the assumption that Herbert puts a team over the top is not something I'm obligated to go along with.

 

 

Fair enough. Was just having some fun with a scenario-based approach. It’s not that important. 

FYI, "rejecting the premise" is the same thing. Thus the Kirk reference. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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By the way, I think Herbert is nasty as all get out. Just his positional value in a 1 QB setting that most people play in is very low. In the league I play in, QBs are at a premium in a 1 QB setting and Herbert still isn't worth Gibson alone, never mind adding a first to it. Like barackdhouse said, I'd rather go into my year with Andy Dalton starting at quarterback than make that deal.

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4 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Let me tell you about a redraft season where I had Priest Holmes, who fell to me at 5.

He came out of the gate gangbusters & the Larry Johnson owner offered him to me for what I thought was way too much for a bench-riding handcuff.

We got very close, but then the LJ owner wanted me to toss in a WR3 & I balked. No deal got done.

The very next week Holmes got hurt & LJ went on to win that dude the league. Because I didn’t want to overpay my season was over. 

I mean is there really value in a dynasty trade thread to reiterating on every trade that “sometimes your individual team situation makes it worth overpaying”?

Im not sure we need to pump the brakes and say “well what if it was the best they could get and the last piece they needed to win the money” every time a valuation is bad. Yes, there may be times when a bad trade in a vacuum makes sense. But are we here to figure out rough player values or rehabilitate the honor of owners who might have made brutal looking trades for outlier reasons?

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9 minutes ago, EthnicFury said:

I mean is there really value in a dynasty trade thread to reiterating on every trade that “sometimes your individual team situation makes it worth overpaying”?

Im not sure we need to pump the brakes and say “well what if it was the best they could get and the last piece they needed to win the money” every time a valuation is bad. Yes, there may be times when a bad trade in a vacuum makes sense. But are we here to figure out rough player values or rehabilitate the honor of owners who might have made brutal looking trades for outlier reasons?

It’s not even preseason yet. It’s a fun discussion. We really don’t need 40 people saying a trade is bad either, nor is that the point of this topic, yet here we are.

So if everyone is saying it’s terrible on it’s face, is there any harm done by suggesting that perhaps there’s a context in which it isn’t terrible & giving an example of when I used to think like everyone else until a scenario unfolded that proved me wrong?

Or is that discussion verboten? lemme go check the forum rules, brb

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Verboten? Harm done? Nah I just think everyone knows it already.

I’m not gonna go to some financial advice board and post about buying 3 quarters for a dollar once in college because I needed to do laundry in the replies every time someone makes an investment that looks like it’s gonna lose em 25%. Yeah sometimes losing value makes sense for other reasons, we get it. It’s also a bad trade barring some weird, rarely applicable outlier situation

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12 minutes ago, EthnicFury said:

Verboten? Harm done? Nah I just think everyone knows it already.

I’m not gonna go to some financial advice board and post about buying 3 quarters for a dollar once in college because I needed to do laundry in the replies every time someone makes an investment that looks like it’s gonna lose em 25%. Yeah sometimes losing value makes sense for other reasons, we get it. It’s also a bad trade barring some weird, rarely applicable outlier situation

Except that's not remotely a good analogy to this, because everyone has quarters and they’re all worth $.25. And everyone agrees they’re only worth $.25

a much better analogy would be someone with a rare sports card trading it for 3 semi-rare sports cards because the rare one completes their set, making the sum of the parts even more valuable.
 

That’s exactly like the ready to win team overpaying for a fantasy asset, which is the framing I employed. 

Like I said, I own neither Herbert nor Gibson, I would take the Gibson side all day, and I think it’s an overpay. I’m not defending the deal at all. 

I’m just suggesting it could be viewed in a more favorable light than some here are shining on it. And I find it interesting that this deal is getting so much more attention than the Amari Cooper for McLaurin (with a free 1st tossed in) when that’s an almost equally bad deal, though people “like Terry McClaurin so they could see overpaying to get him” yet that logic disappears with Herbert? 

if you disagree with me, that’s fine. Welcome to the club I guess. 

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The only thing I would add is that I personally find it frustrating not having “a guy” at QB. I don’t like streaming or guessing between 2-3 mediocre/poor options. I can see where a team who has struggled to find a consistent option there seeking out a trade for one. In dynasty I have always focused on making the strength of my team at the QB and WR positions. I like the longevity and I have had a lot of success with that strategy. That being said it is hard to justify the first being on the Gibson side.

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