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****OFFICIAL 2021 IN- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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28 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

I don't fault you for doing so if he passes your eye test.  I'm a Niner fan so I like the coaching staff.  I just don't like going against history personally.  It has done me pretty well in fantasy to avoid Jets QBs, Lions RBs, and others that fall in that category.  He could be the outlier but I'd much rather take the chance on another QB if given the choice.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't take him in the right trade but definitely not with an overpay.  Wouldn't even consider it.

 

I'm sure avoiding Trevor Lawrence because of JAX's historical QB failures will work wonders for you.  And Josh Allen because BUF QB's have been a disaster since Kelly.  Oh and speaking of disasters stay far away from Mahomes too, that franchise has been a total disaster at QB so the positive coaching change can't possibly turn Mahomes into a good QB.

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4 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

And I said that I could miss out on a player by following that but has worked out in my favor avoiding Jets QBs in my 15 years of fantasy football.  A rookie QB that killed it would still be an outlier for the Jets.  Crap even their HOF QB in Namath threw way more INTs than TDs.

 

I guess I’m missing what Joe Namath has to do with Zach Wilson. 

If avoiding Jets has worked for you, I won’t argue with that, but your supporting logic doesn’t really support it. 

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23 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

 

I'm sure avoiding Trevor Lawrence because of JAX's historical QB failures will work wonders for you.  And Josh Allen because BUF QB's have been a disaster since Kelly.  Oh and speaking of disasters stay far away from Mahomes too, that franchise has been a total disaster at QB so the positive coaching change can't possibly turn Mahomes into a good QB.

I'd take Lawrence for sure.  His reward is worth the risk.  I wouldn't have drafted Allen when he came out no but never saw him in college.  I'd trade for him now and actually had him on a few redraft teams last year.

I feel people are too high on Wilson personally and I want no part of the Jets personally.  More power to you if you do.  I still feel that chances are more likely I am right than you are.

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26 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

I guess I’m missing what Joe Namath has to do with Zach Wilson. 

If avoiding Jets has worked for you, I won’t argue with that, but your supporting logic doesn’t really support it. 

It is just more history with Jets QBs.  Obviously it isn't a for sure but just more of the same.  Only time will tell who is right but I feel people are too high on Wilson.

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1 minute ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

It is just more history with Jets QBs.  Obviously it isn't a for sure but just more of the same.  Only time will tell who is right but I feel people are too high on Wilson.

The pros:

• cannon arm

• high football IQ

• makes plays with his legs

• clear path to starting in his 1st year

• plenty of receiving depth

• creative OC

• Very decent OL

The cons: 

Plays for a team that had Joe Namath & Mark Sanchez?

I just don’t see it. And both Lance & Fields tend to go before him in SF dynasty, so I’m not seeing people as too high on him either. 

But I won’t argue with your gut feels. 

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1 hour ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

If Wentz was healthy I'd go with him over Lock who I'm not sure is even a starting QB and Julio but this is really close and probably take the 1st with Wentz' injury.

Just a quick side question, do you think this injury will linger and make Wentz more injury prone, not as good of a player? Does his overall injury problems scare you off now that he got hurt again?
 

Because it seems like he should be back sometime early in the season

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

The pros:

• cannon arm

• high football IQ

• makes plays with his legs

• clear path to starting in his 1st year

• plenty of receiving depth

• creative OC

• Very decent OL

The cons: 

Plays for a team that had Joe Namath & Mark Sanchez?

I just don’t see it. And both Lance & Fields tend to go before him in SF dynasty, so I’m not seeing people as too high on him either. 

But I won’t argue with your gut feels. 

He does have the arm you like and opportunity.  I'm not sold on that receiving core.  I like Lance way better even if he doesn't start this year.  I could see taking him over Fields though personally.

When I say too high on him, I'm more meaning some trades I have seen where real assets are being given for him.  I just wouldn't pay up for him at this point.  I want to see it first.

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3 minutes ago, Bruceman6 said:

Just a quick side question, do you think this injury will linger and make Wentz more injury prone, not as good of a player? Does his overall injury problems scare you off now that he got hurt again?
 

Because it seems like he should be back sometime early in the season

I think things could start to become mental for him.  Especially if the Colts sign Rivers back or trade for Foles or another vet.  Plus, last time we saw Wentz, he was terrible.  Granted I expect more from him on the Colts.  I just think that trade was so close that the injury leaned it just the other way.  I don't have a problem with either side especially for the guy that has won back-to-back chips.

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Lot of people are down on Wilson for the same reason Jonesin is. There's no reason he should sit at QB28 or so, yet he does. Until the Johnsons sell the franchise to an obviously good owner, or the Jets produce some wins, they'll be losers in peoples' minds. That won't change until somebody wins. 

I'm personally in on Wilson and skill players like Davis, E. Moore, etc. I think Davis is underrated. I think E. Moore is going to be what Cole Beasley and others wish he were (and was last year in PPR). I think Wilson will be an average (yes, average) fantasy starter given the coaches' love of the run and his talents. I predict he'll largely be a pocket passer despite some nice mobility that he displayed against easy teams and that his points in that respect will be few and far between. 

That's about it. Wouldn't fade the guy for his situation, but I can see where people would. Given that I think he's at tops an average fantasy guy, I might stay away, too. 

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57 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

And I said that I could miss out on a player by following that but has worked out in my favor avoiding Jets QBs in my 15 years of fantasy football.  A rookie QB that killed it would still be an outlier for the Jets.  Crap even their HOF QB in Namath threw way more INTs than TDs.

There are many ways to win in fantasy but I'll stick with staying away from Jets QBs and pay more for him in the future once it is proven.  Just not a risk I'm willing to make.  Trades and drafting in fantasy has a lot to do with risk/reward.  To me....there is too much risk there to be worth the reward.  Not saying it is impossible.


I think we should move on. This convo isn’t helping anyone.

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

 

I'm sure avoiding Trevor Lawrence because of JAX's historical QB failures will work wonders for you.

 

Huh?  Mark Brunnell had a QB7 and QB12 season, and Blake ####### Bortles had a QB4 and QB9 season.

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2 hours ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

It has done me pretty well in fantasy to avoid Jets QBs, Lions RBs, and others that fall in that category. 

Other historical avoids to add to your list: Bears QBs, Browns QBs, Ravens WRs, Bucs RBs

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13 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

Other historical avoids to add to your list: Bears QBs, Browns QBs, Ravens WRs, Bucs RBs

Jackson has killed it for the Ravens.  Doug Martin was good for the Bucs.  Brunell and Bortles had good seasons for the Jags, I'm pretty sure Cutler was even fantasy relevant at times for the Bears.

You are just taking shots because you disagree with me.  Do you if that makes you feel better.  I'm more than ok winning chips with no Jets on my team.  If you can't stomach it then feel free to draft them.

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13 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

Jackson has killed it for the Ravens.  Doug Martin was good for the Bucs.  Brunell and Bortles had good seasons for the Jags, I'm pretty sure Cutler was even fantasy relevant at times for the Bears.

You are just taking shots because you disagree with me.  Do you if that makes you feel better.  I'm more than ok winning chips with no Jets on my team.  If you can't stomach it then feel free to draft them.

You do know you just proved his point for him. Right?

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27 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

Jackson has killed it for the Ravens.  Doug Martin was good for the Bucs.  Brunell and Bortles had good seasons for the Jags, I'm pretty sure Cutler was even fantasy relevant at times for the Bears.

You are just taking shots because you disagree with me.  Do you if that makes you feel better.  I'm more than ok winning chips with no Jets on my team.  If you can't stomach it then feel free to draft them.


Wait until they pick up a running back of the street and he's an RB2. That's my suggestion. Because that has a very good chance of happening. 

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13 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

Very possible.  That would be waivers then and then all bets are off.  Anyone can be a good waiver pick up with the right opportunity.


Yup. That's for sure. Just saying to watch for that and maybe slide an extra buck or two over to a guy or pounce early on a guy that gets cut that fits the SF system. Identify them before they get to the Jets. A simple Google search and some diligence will tell you who. Deon Jackson of Indy, maybe. One-cut-and-go guys that test well. I keep pumping Khalil Herbert as a potential Jets mark, but I think a Chicago RB went down the other day, meaning his chances of making Chi-Town's backfield increased rather than left to dangle for practice squad pouncing by other teams. So maybe a Jackson. Maybe a Chris Evans, though he is very unlikely to get cut. Guys that test really well and get cut. Look for 'em. 

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The pros:

• cannon arm - sure

• high football IQ - plays hero ball, got his WRs lit up - throws across his body and back over the middle of the field

• makes plays with his legs - Decent athleticism for college QB, will it translate? Better hope so with his slight frame. ESPN has him running a 4.84 coming out of HS

• clear path to starting in his 1st year - sure

• plenty of receiving depth - with minimal talent (excluding what we don't know with E Moore)

• creative OC - Really? When is the last time Lafluer was an OC? Called plays? Premature to call him creative 

• Very decent OL - Quality OL yes

Had a great Senior against very weak competition. I don't see it.

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38 minutes ago, Cheen said:

The pros:

• makes plays with his legs - Decent athleticism for college QB, will it translate? Better hope so with his slight frame. ESPN has him running a 4.84 coming out of HS

 

I'm referring to buying time in the pocket, not taking off running. His 40 time is irrelevant. 

38 minutes ago, Cheen said:

• plenty of receiving depth - with minimal talent (excluding what we don't know with E Moore)

There's still plenty of depth there with Cole, and potentially even Mims, even though he's in the doghouse. 

38 minutes ago, Cheen said:

• creative OC - Really? When is the last time Lafluer was an OC? Called plays? Premature to call him creative 

 

He was the passing coordinator for the Niners, and did a good job there. He's well regarded as a quality offensive mind.  You seem to be searching for things to hate on. 

38 minutes ago, Cheen said:

Had a great Senior against very weak competition. I don't see it.

OK, you're a hater. Noted. 

Ps - Better chance for me to see you quoting my post if you actually, you know, quoted my post.  💡

 

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

I'm referring to buying time in the pocket, not taking off running. His 40 time is irrelevant. 

There's still plenty of depth there with Cole, and potentially even Mims, even though he's in the doghouse. 

 

He was the passing coordinator for the Niners, and did a good job there. He's well regarded as a quality offensive mind.  You seem to be searching for things to hate on. 

OK, you're a hater. Noted. 

Ps - Better chance for me to see you quoting my post if you actually, you know, quoted my post.  💡

 

 

"makes plays with his legs" by "buying time in the pocket"?? 

I agree there is depth at WR for the Jets, there just isn't any talent - hopefully E Moore changes that. Whoever your favorite WR is between Davis, Crowder, Mims, Cole, that WR probably isn't in the top 50 of all NFL WRs. 

Lafleur has been under Shanahan for the last 6 seasons. No one has any clue how ML will perform running his own offense. Again, when is the last time he called plays? As an OC at Davidson in 2013? Do you not think that is relevant? At this point it's nothing more than an assumption that Lafleur is an above average, creative OC.

Compared to his Sophomore year Wilson had 1300 more passing yards as a Junior on only 17 more attempts while playing the likes of Troy, La Tech, UTSA, Texas State(!), Western Kentucky(!), North Alabama(!), and San Diego State. The NFL is a great example of how much SOS matters.

Disagreeing ≠ Hating - He may very well turn out to be a 12 year pro, I doubt it. People like Saleh and dislike Gase so there is an air of positivity and optimism around the Jets currently. It will probably be short lived, Vegas has them as the 3rd worst team this season.

 

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1 hour ago, Cheen said:

I agree there is depth at WR for the Jets, there just isn't any talent - hopefully E Moore changes that. Whoever your favorite WR is between Davis, Crowder, Mims, Cole, that WR probably isn't in the top 50 of all NFL WRs. 


Naming 50 WR before Corey Davis is certainly a task I'd like to see undertaken. Generally, and I know this is only for fantasy purposes, he ranks in the thirties, and that's with the Jets. Not too many WR2s in the league that are better. You can name some off of the best squads like Higgins and Gallup, but talk to me about guys that win on the outside as WR2s on their own team, and Davis was the best WR2 last year, almost hands down. Gallup and Higgins didn't even sniff his per-game and yards per routes run stats. Let's go team-by-team and name the better guys

Bills: Diggs

NE: Nobody 

Miami: Parker? Waddle? Fuller? Nobody 

Cleveland: OBJ

Baltimore: Nobody

Pittsburgh: Johnson and Claypool, maybe. Yeah, I'll give that. 

Cincinnati: Chase, Higgins

Raiders: Nobody 

Kansas City: Hill 

Denver: Sutton, Jeudy, Patrick, Hamler? Not yet for any of them but Sutton, maybe. 

San Diego/Los Angeles: Keenan Allen

Indianapolis: T.Y. Hilton, Michael Pittman, Parris Campbell? Nobody

Houston: Cooks, maybe

Jacksonville: Chark, Jones, Shenault. Pick one. Chark, maybe

I don't even need to complete this. There's ten or so in fifteen teams. The same will hold for the NFC. You get the picture. Davis is ensconced in the top fifty. 

Mims has played one half a year under Gase. It's impossible to judge him. 

Crowder probably hovers around the fiftieth best receiver in the game. 

Cole is solid depth, nothing more. 

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28 minutes ago, woodstock said:


Naming 50 WR before Corey Davis is certainly a task I'd like to see undertaken. Generally, and I know this is only for fantasy purposes, he ranks in the thirties, and that's with the Jets. Not too many WR2s in the league that are better. You can name some off of the best squads like Higgins and Gallup, but talk to me about guys that win on the outside as WR2s on their own team, and Davis was the best WR2 last year, almost hands down. Gallup and Higgins didn't even sniff his per-game and yards per routes run stats. Let's go team-by-team and name the better guys

Bills: Diggs

NE: Nobody 

Miami: Parker? Waddle? Fuller? Nobody 

Cleveland: OBJ

Baltimore: Nobody

Pittsburgh: Johnson and Claypool, maybe. Yeah, I'll give that. 

Cincinnati: Chase, Higgins

Raiders: Nobody 

Kansas City: Hill 

Denver: Sutton, Jeudy, Patrick, Hamler? Not yet for any of them but Sutton, maybe. 

San Diego/Los Angeles: Keenan Allen

Indianapolis: T.Y. Hilton, Michael Pittman, Parris Campbell? Nobody

Houston: Cooks, maybe

Jacksonville: Chark, Jones, Shenault. Pick one. Chark, maybe

I don't even need to complete this. There's ten or so in fifteen teams. The same will hold for the NFC. You get the picture. Davis is ensconced in the top fifty. 

Mims has played one half a year under Gase. It's impossible to judge him. 

Crowder probably hovers around the fiftieth best receiver in the game. 

Cole is solid depth, nothing more. 

Before I dropped "top 50" I confirmed with FBG PPR WR rankings, which has Corey Davis at 52. Some players ranked ahead of him I think Davis is more talented: Mooney, Mecole, Beasley, Curtis Samuel, Marquise Brown, maybe Viska. Some players ranked behind him I think are better than Davis: AB, Devante Parker. That puts him at 49. FantasyPros has him at 44 in PPR.

Mr. Hot Sauce Guy and I were discussing WR talent, not expected fantasy outcome, so the above isn't a 1-to-1 comparison, but it's a good start. Davis is only 26 so he could still put together some 1k+ seasons with some improvement, but we've already seen he is a better WR2 than WR1 for a team.

Per your list above if I'm a GM I'd rather have the following players for this year (in addition to what you mentioned): Fuller, Jarvis Landry, Devante Parker, Juju, Sutton (assuming health), Jeudy, Boyd, Mike Williams, Chark, maybe Laviska. Not all these players win on the outside, but that's not a pre-requisite to be a top 50 WR IMO.

So Davis clocks in around 45. I was wrong to say "probably not" top 50. Regardless, hopefully E Moore is the best of the bunch to give Wilson the best opportunity to succeed. Crowder played well last year when he was on the field. It's still very much a below average WR unit that has more depth than talent at this point. 

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5 hours ago, Cheen said:

Before I dropped "top 50" I confirmed with FBG PPR WR rankings, which has Corey Davis at 52. Some players ranked ahead of him I think Davis is more talented: Mooney, Mecole, Beasley, Curtis Samuel, Marquise Brown, maybe Viska. Some players ranked behind him I think are better than Davis: AB, Devante Parker. That puts him at 49. FantasyPros has him at 44 in PPR.

Mr. Hot Sauce Guy and I were discussing WR talent, not expected fantasy outcome, so the above isn't a 1-to-1 comparison, but it's a good start. Davis is only 26 so he could still put together some 1k+ seasons with some improvement, but we've already seen he is a better WR2 than WR1 for a team.

Per your list above if I'm a GM I'd rather have the following players for this year (in addition to what you mentioned): Fuller, Jarvis Landry, Devante Parker, Juju, Sutton (assuming health), Jeudy, Boyd, Mike Williams, Chark, maybe Laviska. Not all these players win on the outside, but that's not a pre-requisite to be a top 50 WR IMO.

So Davis clocks in around 45. I was wrong to say "probably not" top 50. Regardless, hopefully E Moore is the best of the bunch to give Wilson the best opportunity to succeed. Crowder played well last year when he was on the field. It's still very much a below average WR unit that has more depth than talent at this point. 


I guess below-average for the team depends on whether or not you value depth or alphas. Davis hasn't really gotten to prove anything about being a WR1 because he's just matured and is going for his fifth-year breakthrough with a new team (that's both a real and fantasy thing now, the fifth-year breakthrough, because of the four-year contracts for most second-rounders and below. I know Davis went number five overall and had the option declined, so his is a bit different, but look for it with a new team...).

Anyway, you're talking to someone who traded Davis in dynasty for a mid-to-late second and a throw-away running back and then really regretted that move. I just pissed into the wind with that deal. Not a good one. So it's not even homer-ism or roster defense, it's as subjectively pure an assessment as you're going to get. 

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1 hour ago, woodstock said:


I guess below-average for the team depends on whether or not you value depth or alphas. Davis hasn't really gotten to prove anything about being a WR1 because he's just matured and is going for his fifth-year breakthrough with a new team (that's both a real and fantasy thing now, the fifth-year breakthrough, because of the four-year contracts for most second-rounders and below. I know Davis went number five overall and had the option declined, so his is a bit different, but look for it with a new team...).

Anyway, you're talking to someone who traded Davis in dynasty for a mid-to-late second and a throw-away running back and then really regretted that move. I just pissed into the wind with that deal. Not a good one. So it's not even homer-ism or roster defense, it's as subjectively pure an assessment as you're going to get. 

If the goal is to win a Super Bowl I think alphas will always be desired over depth pieces. Since only 2-3 WRs are on the field at a time, you'd like at least 1 guy you can go to in high leverage situations. The team might be more fragile without depth but in order to have a SB winning season a team needs to benefit from injury luck. Would you rather have last year's Titans WRs or this year's NYJ WRs?

I think he's going to a worse situation and the likelihood of having a better season than last year (nearly 1k yards in 14 games) is substantially less than 50/50. I think you did well by divesting. In typical dynasty setups it's hard to win starting backend WR4s.

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2 hours ago, Cheen said:

If the goal is to win a Super Bowl I think alphas will always be desired over depth pieces. Since only 2-3 WRs are on the field at a time, you'd like at least 1 guy you can go to in high leverage situations. The team might be more fragile without depth but in order to have a SB winning season a team needs to benefit from injury luck. Would you rather have last year's Titans WRs or this year's NYJ WRs?

I think he's going to a worse situation and the likelihood of having a better season than last year (nearly 1k yards in 14 games) is substantially less than 50/50. I think you did well by divesting. In typical dynasty setups it's hard to win starting backend WR4s.

 

Ah, we can start five, so starting a WR5 is important. 

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4 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

5 is a ton.  I'm not big on the Jets WRs personally but I would probably say Davis falls in the 30s somewhere if I was guessing.  Moore could show us something.  


It's flex in Zealots. You start eight aside from the QB. One RB, One TE, One RB/TE Flex, Two WR, Three ALL FLEX. So yeah, you can run five at WR. It makes sense to build your team around them, too. I have Davis in the thirties also. I think his ECR and expert rankings are too low, and they're published at about 26 below his ADP, according to FantasyPros. He's ranked 48 in FantasyPros ECR, he's going about in the twenties for WR ADP. 

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3 minutes ago, woodstock said:


It's flex in Zealots. You start eight aside from the QB. One RB, One TE, One RB/TE Flex, Two WR, Three ALL FLEX. So yeah, you can run five at WR. It makes sense to build your team around them, too. I have Davis in the thirties also. I think his ECR and expert rankings are too low, and they're published at about 26 below his ADP, according to FantasyPros. He's ranked 48 in FantasyPros ECR, he's going about in the twenties for WR ADP. 

I like Davis' talent not sure I trust him there but I don't blame someone else for giving him a shot.  I would say he is ranked too low.  I haven't really broken it down but somewhere in the 35-39 range seems about right.  He has the talent to be an easy WR3 even with a rookie QB in a new offense.  Just depends on how they use him.

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Just now, Jonesin For Some Football said:

I like Davis' talent not sure I trust him there but I don't blame someone else for giving him a shot.  I would say he is ranked too low.  I haven't really broken it down but somewhere in the 35-39 range seems about right.  He has the talent to be an easy WR3 even with a rookie QB in a new offense.  Just depends on how they use him.


I totally agree. He's in the thirties for me, maybe even lower based on uncertainty. But football-wise, he's easily top fifty in my book. I don't want to :deadhorse:, but that seems obvious by both pay grade and production last year. 

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10 minutes ago, woodstock said:


I totally agree. He's in the thirties for me, maybe even lower based on uncertainty. But football-wise, he's easily top fifty in my book. I don't want to :deadhorse:, but that seems obvious by both pay grade and production last year. 

By talent it is easily.  I'm just not sold on the Jets being able to take advantage of that talent.  He had to go get paid though so I don't blame him.  I would have liked to see him somewhere else.  I won't get in to the Jets again.  Lol.  Davis could be a steal for a lot of drafters this year.  Like he was last year.

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3 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

By talent it is easily.  I'm just not sold on the Jets being able to take advantage of that talent.  


That's all I'm saying here. I don't plan on drafting him at his ADP in redraft at all. I also forgot for a moment you were the guy that fades the Jets. That's not really my bone of contention here with Davis. I disagree with fading all Jets simply because they're Jets, but that's another issue. New QB, new team, new questions for Davis can surely bump him down. 

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17 minutes ago, woodstock said:


That's all I'm saying here. I don't plan on drafting him at his ADP in redraft at all. I also forgot for a moment you were the guy that fades the Jets. That's not really my bone of contention here with Davis. I disagree with fading all Jets simply because they're Jets, but that's another issue. New QB, new team, new questions for Davis can surely bump him down. 

Oh for sure.  Lol.  I just don't like the uncertainty of the team.  They have some talent though and at the right spot, I'd still pick them.  There is always a line that the the reward outweighs the risk.

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13 hours ago, Cheen said:

I can count 4, but don't worry about answering them. We can agree to disagree. Good luck with Wilson and LaFlleur.

I mean, you just repeated exactly what I said about Wilson’s mobility but put a question mark on the end.

that’s not really how questions work. Nor is it a way to make a point, really. 

If you question/challenge the validity of my statement, it’s pretty simple: mobility helps a QB buy time in the pocket. It’s called “escapability” - guys like Watson & Mahomes excel in part because they have this trait. Same with another guy named Wilson who ZWilson reminds me of a little.

The opposite of this is a Drew Bledsoe, a fantastic QB who’s pretty much a statue. 

Escapability allows Wilson to avoid pressure, and scramble around buying time for a receiver to get open. it’s one of his best attributes.

If you disagree with that, by all means please use your words & explain why you disagree. We can then have a respectful discussion about it. Quoting a 40-time completely missed the point, and attempting to mock what I said by adding a question mark isn’t that. 

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19 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I mean, you just repeated exactly what I said about Wilson’s mobility but put a question mark on the end.

that’s not really how questions work. Nor is it a way to make a point, really. 

If you question/challenge the validity of my statement, it’s pretty simple: mobility helps a QB buy time in the pocket. It’s called “escapability” - guys like Watson & Mahomes excel in part because they have this trait. Same with another guy named Wilson who ZWilson reminds me of a little.

The opposite of this is a Drew Bledsoe, a fantastic QB who’s pretty much a statue. 

Escapability allows Wilson to avoid pressure, and scramble around buying time for a receiver to get open. it’s one of his best attributes.

If you disagree with that, by all means please use your words & explain why you disagree. We can then have a respectful discussion about it. Quoting a 40-time completely missed the point, and attempting to mock what I said by adding a question mark isn’t that. 

I haven't watched Wilson's tape enough to refute any of what you said but Russ?  That seems like a stretch to compare him to.  Your escapability statements are accurate though and nice use of Drew Bledsoe.  Brady would have worked too.  Lol.

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Just now, Jonesin For Some Football said:

I haven't watched Wilson's tape enough to refute any of what you said but Russ?  That seems like a stretch to compare him to.  Your escapability statements are accurate though and nice use of Drew Bledsoe.  Brady would have worked too.  Lol.

Russ comparison was purely in context of using legs to buy time. He’s gotten better at that over the years, where he used to take off running to mixed success. IIRC, Wilson is faster, and obviously has a HOF-consideration career behind him, so the comparison has its limits.

i’m just talking about buying time with scrambling,  Saying a QB is mobile doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a running QB. I wouldn’t compare Z.Wilson to LJax or Hurts. 

Brady is shockingly adept at ducking pressure in the pocket. He’s not a mobile guy by any mean, but he’s tucked & run for 1st downs quite a bit. But he has an innate ability to “feel” pressure. Subtle steps up in the pocket or shuffles to the left or right cause a pass rusher to miss by an inch - buying just enough time to get the ball out.  I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say he has the best mental clock ever in the history of football. At times it almost looks supernatural. So I can’t quite put him in Bledsoe’s cement feet category. 

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4 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Brady is shockingly adept at ducking pressure in the pocket. He’s not a mobile guy by any mean, but he’s tucked & run for 1st downs quite a bit. But he has an innate ability to “feel” pressure. Subtle steps up in the pocket or shuffles to the left or right cause a pass rusher to miss by an inch - buying just enough time to get the ball out.  I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say he has the best mental clock ever in the history of football. At times it almost looks supernatural. So I can’t quite put him in Bledsoe’s cement feet category. 

 

Marino was also in this mold.  Couldn't run to save his life but could side step, or step up to buy an extra half second to get a pass off.  Very underrated ability

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On 8/4/2021 at 10:37 AM, Jonesin For Some Football said:

No.  Its all for fun as nobody is right or wrong right now and we really won't know for a few years as can't completely judge him off this year anyways.

 

The point everyone was trying to make has nothing to do whether or not Wilson will succeed or not.  It's that using Jets past QB ineptness has no bearing at all on whether Wilson will succeed or not.   If he doesn't succeed it has nothing to do with Geno Smith not succeeding in the NFL.  

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7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Russ comparison was purely in context of using legs to buy time. He’s gotten better at that over the years, where he used to take off running to mixed success. IIRC, Wilson is faster, and obviously has a HOF-consideration career behind him, so the comparison has its limits.

i’m just talking about buying time with scrambling,  Saying a QB is mobile doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a running QB. I wouldn’t compare Z.Wilson to LJax or Hurts. 

Brady is shockingly adept at ducking pressure in the pocket. He’s not a mobile guy by any mean, but he’s tucked & run for 1st downs quite a bit. But he has an innate ability to “feel” pressure. Subtle steps up in the pocket or shuffles to the left or right cause a pass rusher to miss by an inch - buying just enough time to get the ball out.  I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say he has the best mental clock ever in the history of football. At times it almost looks supernatural. So I can’t quite put him in Bledsoe’s cement feet category. 

Oh I agree.  He is the GOAT in many ways.  His pocket presence is unmatched for sure.  I would still consider him a stationary QB though.  I'm curious to see if you are right on Wilson and I don't have him in Dynasty.  Doubt I draft him but who knows as a Waiver.

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Just now, Gally said:

 

The point everyone was trying to make has nothing to do whether or not Wilson will succeed or not.  It's that using Jets past QB ineptness has no bearing at all on whether Wilson will succeed or not.   If he doesn't succeed it has nothing to do with Geno Smith not succeeding in the NFL.  

You are correct to an extent but I remember similar arguments about Darnold.  I guess I just don't see Wilson as being transcendent enough to make the difference of a poor franchise.  I can be wrong.  It is possible but I'd rather error on the side of caution.

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6 minutes ago, Gally said:

 

Marino was also in this mold.  Couldn't run to save his life but could side step, or step up to buy an extra half second to get a pass off.  Very underrated ability

Absolutely - I was thinking of him when saying Brady was the best ever at it, but Marino is a close 2nd.

Agree it’s underrated as an attribute. If JimmyG had this ability he’d be world-beater, but he just can’t feel the pressure. 

Daniel Jones only started to really produce when they let him use his legs more. And as the season went on last year he seemed to get a little better at feeling pressure, but he still has to take a leap there or he’s never going to be a quality NFL QB. 

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6 minutes ago, Jonesin For Some Football said:

Oh I agree.  He is the GOAT in many ways.  His pocket presence is unmatched for sure.  I would still consider him a stationary QB though.  I'm curious to see if you are right on Wilson and I don't have him in Dynasty.  Doubt I draft him but who knows as a Waiver.

I’m sure hoping I am. And if I’m not, I won’t be the first one to be wrong about a player.  I do think he has a very high ceiling long-term, and I won’t be too hasty to judge based on 2021. But he has the tools & his situation is excellent for him to be set up for success. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Daniel Jones only started to really produce when they let him use his legs more. And as the season went on last year he seemed to get a little better at feeling pressure, but he still has to take a leap there or he’s never going to be a quality NFL QB. 

 

I agree here and I think he would have continued to develop but he ended up pulling the hamstring mid season which then took away that mobility.  It really made last season look like he hasn't improved when he actually had taken a few big strides forward.  

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1 hour ago, ryno1980 said:

12 team PPR superflex with 3 flex spots. 

Tee Higgins for Tua and Gallup


I’d rank Higgins and Gallup pretty close which means this is Tua for free basically in super flex. I’m not a Tua fan but it’s a no-brainer for that side.

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